By Joseph Islam
May peace be with you.
With respect, please let me make it absolutely clear that I never intended to enter a debate or an exchange with you. I have respectfully made this repeatedly clear. I simply posted my perspectives on a video that was shared by you. However, I feel that you took this opportunity to rope me into a discussion / debate.
As I am sure you will respectfully agree, that it was your kind self that initially started communicating with me (in our first ever contact). Please see the link below:
http://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/171312213005914
It was your kind self that started to post on my wall and respond to my posts and it was you that asked me questions in private. I have only ever dealt with you with respect, amicably and with a view to humbly assist.
It was in the spirit of your request where you initially solicited feedback on your website (please see link above) and in which I assumed would also entail platforms where you shared wider thoughts such as your Facebook page, that I shared my perspective on a video that you shared. That is all.
Despite my consistent repeated attempts to curtail any further discussions with you on the matter, given what I know are YOUR strong, deep held convictions against the 'Quran-only' position (which I find unwarranted) and other reasons, you continued to engage.
I found that the mannerism of your initial enquiry was crude, argumentative and uncouth. I have also found others, not only on the forum, but others in private (who do not shy away from at times being critical of me) to resonate the same sentiment.
I have respectfully and repeatedly made it clear that I do not intend to have debates on Facebook for the reasons I have also cited in my response to you on the QM Forum .
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=681.msg2540#new
I would have duly hoped that you would respect my rights to make a choice.
That is why I have a dedicated platform (http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php) where I am happy to discuss some of my viewpoints if a sincere enquiry is made. It was also my humble opinion that your questions / statements ridiculed and misrepresented my position.
With all due respect, I feel I have spent enough time dealing with your initial questions and I feel I have made my position absolutely clear. All I respectfully asked was a response to my questions after having responded to yours.
With respect, I do not find that you have addressed my questions with any sort of cogency, in particular:
"WHERE IN THE QURAN DO YOU FIND UNEQUIVOCAL AUTHORITY FOR ANY ASPECT OF THE SECONDARY SOURCE CORPUS AS RELIGIOUSLY BINDING"
In other responses you have diverted your responses into formulating questions of your own. It is also my opinion that with a view to persistently continue your initial enquiry and seeking my responses to them, you have continued to misrepresent my position and hold a discourse in a manner which invites a response. I sense you expect me to respond, but to be respectfully candid, I have no intention to entertain what you want.
However, with a view to answer but ONE question from your first post which you accuse me of not answering.
You said:
I noted that brother Joseph Islam also did not attempt to interact with something else that I posted, so for the benefit of others I will re-post it.
014.004
“And We did not send any messenger but with the language of his people, so that he might explain to them clearly; then God lets go astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills and He is the Mighty, the Wise”
My response:
If you read the context of verse 14:4, it clearly talks about previous messengers that were sent to their communities in the language of their people. The next verse (14:5) cites Prophet Moses as an example. To take this verse to support a revelation in MULTIPLE DIALECTS of any ONE given language to me seems wholly unwarranted and extremely far fetched. If verse 14:4, along with verse 12:2 which mentions an Arabic Quran revealed to a people that may understand it is the only support you can provide from the Quran to support your position, then I respectfully feel that your position is extremely untenable.
Please let us be clear, it is you that initiated this discourse. To reiterate, my initial post was only meant as a response to the video you had shared and not a cue to engage in a debate / discussion with you.
For the avoidance of doubt and for the benefit of respected readers, it is my understanding that you are taking the position for a TWO-SOURCE system as 'AUTHORITY' in religion. Therefore, I would always find that the burden of proof will be on YOU to provide clear, unequivocal evidence for this from the Quran.
Hitherto and with respect, I have found NO SUCH UNEQUIVOCAL EVIDENCE from you and of course, respected readers can form their own opinions.
My perspectives as to why I feel the Quran grants absolutely no other source RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY apart from itself are made clear in the following articles:
(1) THE QURAN STANDS ALONE AS SOLE RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/quran%20sole%20guidance%20FM3.htm
(2) GOD HAS WARNED BELIEVERS TO ONLY FOLLOW THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/god%20has%20warned%20believers%20to%20only%20follow%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm
Just some last sentiments I would like to share (with your kind permission brother Jason) to the respected readers on this Facebook page. In your enquiry you have addressed both the audience and myself directly. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to respond to both you and your readers to whom you address me in the third person.
The reason that I asked clear evidence from brother Jason for the authority of a TWO-SOURCE system as 'religious authority' is because as believers / Muslims we agree that the Quran is God's word. So the starting point and principle common ground for us both IS THE QURAN.
If I were discussing whether the Quran was God's word or not for example with an atheist, this would be a different discussion as would the provision of evidence. Hence, why I have found it tedious when questions of the Quran's authenticity have been intertwined with other enquiries.
I trust that you will have noted why I take the Quran as sole 'RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY' in religion.
(1) THE QURAN STANDS ALONE AS SOLE RELIGIOUS GUIDANCE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/quran%20sole%20guidance%20FM3.htm
(2) GOD HAS WARNED BELIEVERS TO ONLY FOLLOW THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/god%20has%20warned%20believers%20to%20only%20follow%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm
That is not to say that I do not respect the traditions of a people and how they sought to understand and implement the Quran. I can always judge that tradition in the light of the Quran and ascertain whether it is something I wish to pursue or not. It is an assertion that the Quran only grants itself 'RELIGIOUS AUTHORITY'.
I have felt that most questions that have been asked of me by brother Jason have been from a 'secondary source' perspective. In my humble view, they are irrelevant from a Quran's perspective which both Jason and I both hold as the principle source as 'believers'. In other words, it does not matter whether the dubious Islamic secondary sources, including histories written by men at times CENTURIES after the death of the Prophet inform us that the Quran's were burnt, or transmitted in a hundred million different ways. What really matters is what the Quran tells us, which is the ONLY CONTEMPORANEOUS source to the Prophet's ministry and the only religiously authorised source. I have argued why I feel there was only one transmission of the Quran in the following article from a 'Quran's perspective'.
THE COMPILATION OF THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20compilation%20of%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm
To date, I have not found any cogent evidence from the principle source - the Quran (which both Jason and I agree is God's word), which convincingly argues for the contrary.
Finally - once again dear brother Jason, please accept this as my last post to you on this matter. This is a sincere request from ONE MUSLIM TO ANOTHER.
Please respect my right to resist and let us both respectfully agree to disagree. Far better it is that we come to common ground.
My deepest respect and offerings of peace to all of you. God bless
Warm regards,
Joseph.