QM Forum
The Quran => General Discussions => Topic started by: Zafreen on July 06, 2014, 06:07:21 PM
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Salam! I know Allah created us to test us but I get very disheartened that in His Mercy He created us to test us with so much turmoil. He does not need us but He just created us, it seems, for a game. Look at all the suffering....why? We were just created because He decided to make us and test us? It makes no sense
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Greetings Zafreen.
GOD has sent a message explaining what you are asking.
Sometimes we get our answers straight away, sometimes GOD asks us to be patient. Each one of us is different.
With this question, I believe even if we give you our answer, you still need your own .
I am absolutely certain ,if we go to Qoran with a sincere heart, study it, ponder its verses, ask the Lord to help us understand it. We get our answers. Whatever we are seeking an answer to.
May the lord help you and guide you to the answer.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Salam
These ayat may give you some answers of why God may have created us.
021.016-18
"And We did not create the Heaven and the Earth and what is between them for mere play / sport. If We intended that We take a pastime, We could surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)! Nay! We cast the truth (Arabic: bil-haqi) against the falsehood (Arabic: l-batili), so that it breaks its head, and lo! falsehood does perish! and woe to you for which you ascribe!"
047.031
“And We shall try you until We make evident those who strive among you and persevere in patience; and We shall test your affairs”
Peace
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Another ayah to point out would be
51:56
And I did not create the jinn and mankind(ins) except to worship Me.
The Good Lord has created the jinns and mankind to worship Him. That to show and manifest his greatness to us. Not for a game or sport or out of boredom. But to cast the truth over the false. And to show the truth of His Oneness. And to test and make evident of those who believe with patients and turmoil.
Before we came to life in the world. I sometimes think of who we were as souls. Before GOD has put us in this world. The word INS is a word that describes human form. We are given little info about the NAFS (soul). So somethings we might never totally understand. But the purpose of this life is to worship the Mighty GOD. And to go with the truth and to believe in HIM even at times of hardship and struggle. Hoping for the end to be Paradise Insha'Allah.
I find in all this the greatness of mercy and love that GOD has to his creation. To the souls that he created. He has manifested the truth for them and to prove to them His Oneness and Excellence without a doubt. That they should worship Him alone and get repaid much more for there efforts with a eternal paradise to come. Glory be to Him who is all merciful and and loving.
Salam
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Thank u, I have read the ayats and ultimately it seems we dnt know and all we have to do is struggle. Allah doea not need us. He does not need us to fight for Him. There is too much sorrow and torture. And I dnt understand why the helpless suffer so much. This is where I struggle. This is not explained. Why would something be created out of nothing just to show to the creation who is good or not? Allah knows before who will prosper. Why make us to suffer and test?
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Salam
I dont think we are created so that we can show other creations who is good and who is not. Yes GOD has given some authority over others. But with rules and a way of life to live by. If people were to live through the guidance of GOD whether rich or poor then maybe things would be better. Some people might suffer in this world because others did not follow the guidance and rules laid out by GOD. Feeding the poor, charity, being good with people and no oppression. Thats why we are accountable. But those who suffered and believed there reward is with GOD. At the end those people might be so happy that they are glad that they went through all that. And the ones who lose the most is the ones who were not given much in this world and also disbelieved. They lost both worlds.
However even if poverty was eliminated I feel GOD would still try us and test people to make evident of those who actually believe he is the one who is in control and the one who is able to do anything. And to give him thanks and worship him. To understand that He is the provider the sustainer. If we look deeply at the world I realize that all this is for us. A blessing in this world. Some might have to pay the price in the hereafter for the rights they have taken away from people. But ultimately we are all going to return to GOD. He is definitely not in the need of anything. Your right He does not need us. We need him. So whatever we do is only a benefit to ourselves. He simply created us to worship him. And yet he does not need our worship. But GOD can create whatever he pleases. The answer of why he created us could be simply with Him. But to those who follow him is a blessing. And to those who fail is a miserable price.
At the end GOD creates what ever he pleases. We are his creation. He manifested his powers and blessings to us. Little thanks do we give. God created the heavens and the earth in six periods. He has indeed given us something that means a lot. All have the opportunity to attain the promised paradise to come. He is the best of all judges.
And maybe we are to live so that we can suffer and strive. Its not paradise afterall.
Allah does know before who is good and will prosper and who is not. But imagine GOD has put the people who disbelieved in hell without really living this world and the people who believe in heaven without actually living in this world. Wont the disbelievers be confused about why they are there in hell and the believers would also think about why they are given paradise and think they are just better. I mean that can be a little bit of a answer. But one might question also about little babies or children who die at a young age. At the end GOD does know there final decision and what they would be like if they did live to a older age. What kind of human they would of been. But even to them a world was shown. ALLAH knows best.
I know I dont have all the answers and I think all of us have lots to ask and the questions might get so deep. I think we can never know everything. But it still all works out to be satisfiable in my opinion. And the Quran is where all the guidance from and we will never know everything about it. But a believer believes in all of it and says we hear and we obey.. And we will never get anything close to it. Full truth is will the almighty GOD
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Salam! I know Allah created us to test us but I get very disheartened that in His Mercy He created us to test us with so much turmoil. He does not need us but He just created us, it seems, for a game. Look at all the suffering....why? We were just created because He decided to make us and test us? It makes no sense
Wa alaikum assalam Zafreen,
God certainly didn't create us for mere sport / game which is specifically addressed in a verse of the Quran.
021.016-18
"And We did not create the Heaven and the Earth and what is between them for mere play / sport (* la'ib). If We intended that We take a pastime, We could surely have taken it from the things nearest to Us, if We would do (such a thing)! Nay! We cast the truth (Arabic: bil-haqi) against the falsehood (Arabic: l-batili), so that it breaks its head, and lo! falsehood does perish! and woe to you for which you ascribe!"
(Truth vs Falsehood and the manifestation/ recognition of truth)
* la'ib - pastime, game, playing, sport, play.
I have discussed this in the main article dealing with suffering and adversity [1] below. However this article is also underpinned by two other articles [2] and [3] below.
I hope this helps, God willing
Joseph
REFERENCES
[1] Suffering & Adversity
http://quransmessage.com/articles/suffering%20FM3.htm
[2] A Purpose to Creation - The Power of Truth
http://quransmessage.com/articles/creation%20purpose%20FM3.htm
[3] We will be Tested
http://quransmessage.com/articles/tests%20FM3.htm
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Salaam all,
The simple answer to ‘Why is there a creation?’ is because there is a Creator; without the creation the creator attribute of the Divine Being would not be actualized. The Self-Existent Reality, the principle of unity, first differentiates into complementary duality: jalal and jamal sides of the One Divine Being. Majestic, Overpowering, masculine, wrathful side to counterbalance the feminine, loving-kind, merciful, beautiful side. These potential attributes then further differentiate into plurality only in relation to creation. I have to sin so the forgiving aspect of the Being can be activated, for example.
Why man and jinn created? This is a different area because apart from the other creation, these two groups possess a relatively free will which puts them in a sort of ‘testing’ category to evaluate how the will is exercised. The process can be used as a learning exercise to help in the evolution of the being. There is a physical evolution why not a spiritual evolution, too?
There is a famous saying attributed to the Prophet, explaining why God created the universe. God says ‘I was a hidden treasure and I desired to be known thus I created the creatures so I might be known. God is disclosing Itself to Its creatures through the cosmos. In Mathnawi II 2680, Rumi refers to this dichotomy “Severity and gentleness were married and a world of good and evil was born from the two”. This can also refer to the 38:75 where it is mentioned that man was created with the two hands of God, jalal and jamal.
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Conclusion: Allah created us with free will to test us. Rather than putting us in hell or paradise He is showing us so we will know.
Question: this seems to be a never ending question. Allah leaves the unbelievers to increase their sins. This affects the good helpless people. Then a person does bear the consequences of another. For eg, Israel and Palestine. We cant do anything. It is a calamity placed by Allah and billions have died and suffering. The innocents are being tested because Allah left the Unbelievers to their sins? It makes no sense and I can understand that although everything else in the Quran makes sense, why some people may not accept the existance of a God. There is too much pain for a Merciful God. How can you love a God who you have to fear? Fear of being tested so harshly? Any happiness can be taken away because of a test. Worshipping God coz of fear is easier than love.
Thank u all for ur answers.
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Peace Zafreen.
There is something that happened before this creation, which explains Why Were We Created?
We are in this world because we committed a horrendous crime, and this life is our chance to redeem ourselves, denounce our crime, and rejoin God's kingdom. [38:69] .We failed to uphold GOD s authority.
Contrary to common belief, the "Original Sin" was not Adam's violation of God's law when he ate from the forbidden tree.
The original sin was our failure to uphold God's absolute authority during the Great Feud.
If the human person convinces his or her jinn companion to denounce that original sin, and uphold God's absolute authority, both creatures are redeemed to God's eternal kingdom on the Day of Judgment.
But if the jinn companion convinces the human being to uphold Satan's idolatrous views, then both creatures are exiled forever from God's kingdom. .
Because our life in this world is a series of tests designed to expose our polytheistic ideas, idol worship is the only unforgivable offense (4:48, 4:116).
The world is divinely designed to manifest our decision to uphold either God's absolute authority, or Satan's idolatrous views (67:1-2).
To give us a headstart, the Most Merciful gathered all the human beings before Him, prior to sending us to this world, and we bore witness that He alone is our Lord and Master (7:172). Thus, upholding God's absolute authority is a natural instinct that is an integral part of every human being, and the test is not to break this covenant.
On the day of judgement we will remember . There will be no excuses , we will be requited for what we earned/did during this trial period. There will be total justice .
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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We are in this world because we committed a horrendous crime, and this life is our chance to redeem ourselves, denounce our crime, and rejoin God's kingdom. [38:69] .We failed to uphold GOD s authority.
Contrary to common belief, the "Original Sin" was not Adam's violation of God's law when he ate from the forbidden tree.
The original sin was our failure to uphold God's absolute authority during the Great Feud.
If the human person convinces his or her jinn companion to denounce that original sin, and uphold God's absolute authority, both creatures are redeemed to God's eternal kingdom on the Day of Judgment.
Dear Good Logic,
As-salam alaykum
Do you have any explicit proof (not interpolations) of this from the Quran?
Regards,
Joseph
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Peace Zafreen,
Remember the nafs amara in each of us ? It tries to dominate us and blind our eyes to truth. It seeks to take away our free will. We all struggle with our narcissistic ego that manifests in egotistical, arrogant tendencies in us.
The playing field is the same for everyone. We all behave selfishly and hurtfully. As self awareness develops, we try to change our harmful actions and be more tolerant and accepting of our differences. Unfortunately some lag behind and cannot develop the consciousness at the same time or level. Thus many get hurt from the actions of those laggers. It is not God’s fault We have been told to fight the inner jihad.
“Then a person does bear the consequences of another" I believe it should be bearing the sins of another not the consequences.
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Greetings Brother Joseph.
I will give you the verses numbers,this way you can look them up and use your own translation.
Heavenly feud [38:69]'
After the feud The angels expected God to banish the creatures who did not uphold His absolute authority (2:30).
But God is Most Merciful; He decided to give us a chance to denounce our mistake, and informed the angels that He knew what they did not know (2:30).
God's plan called for creating death (67:1-2), then bringing the humans and jinns into this world. Thus, they start over without any biases, and exercise full freedom.
To give us a headstart, the Most Merciful gathered all the human beings before Him, prior to sending us to this world (7:172)
He then created us and the Jinn (15:26) and (15:27).
Jinns are descendants of Satan (7:27, 18:50).
An independent jinn soul is assigned to the new human being to represent Satan's point of view.
The assigned jinn remains with the human being from birth to death, and serves as the main witness on the Day of Judgment (50:23).
A continuous debate takes place in our heads between the human soul and the jinn soul until both of them are convinced of one point of view.
Thank you for your enquiry.
God bless you.
Peace.
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Salaam good logic,
" Heavenly feud [38:69]'
After the feud The angels expected God to banish the creatures who did not uphold His absolute authority (2:30)"
Just like the Prophet we were not there to listen to the arguments. I believe at that point Adam was not involved in the feud; it was about him though. It was the angels who expressed their concern over God's intent to create a khalifa out of the mud. Then Iblis falls prey to his jealousy and arrogance; declares his superiority over the material creature, not understanding enough to appreciate the spiritual dimension of the khalifa in being breathed into him by God.
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Dear Good Logic,
As-salam alaykum
Please see my responses to your comments in blue italics.
Heavenly feud [38:69]'
After the feud The angels expected God to banish the creatures who did not uphold His absolute authority (2:30).
Whilst I do not disagree with the linkage of verse 38:69 with 2:30 as I have acknowledged elsewhere with regards the 'mala-i-l-ala' [1], there is no mention in verse 2:30 that the angels expected God to banish creatures that did not uphold His absolute authority. They made known their concerns and posed questions. However, at no stage was an expectation to banish any creature mentioned. It remains noteworthy that man had not even been created at this stage.
But God is Most Merciful; He decided to give us a chance to denounce our mistake, and informed the angels that He knew what they did not know (2:30).
Where was our mistake made? Man was not even created as yet in verse 2:30. Therefore, man could not have made any mistake. With respect, this is an unwarranted interpolation.
God's plan called for creating death (67:1-2), then bringing the humans and jinns into this world. Thus, they start over without any biases, and exercise full freedom.
Verse 67:1-2 make it clear God's reason for creating man which was to try humans to ascertain those that were best in deeds / conduct. There is no mention of Jinns in these verse and if verse 15:26-27 is to be relied upon, jinns already existed as they were created before mankind.
To give us a headstart, the Most Merciful gathered all the human beings before Him, prior to sending us to this world (7:172)
This with respect, is again an unwarranted interpolation. There is no mention of a congregational assembly of 'humans' before which they were sent into this world.
He then created us and the Jinn (15:26) and (15:27).
This is incorrect and once again, an unwarranted interpolation. These verses make clear the difference in chronology with respect to the creation of these two species. Jinns were created before man and this is explicit in the Arabic text. Therefore your intimation of the jinn being created with man or after man has absolutely no warrant from a Quran's perspective.
Jinns are descendants of Satan (7:27, 18:50).
This statement is unwarranted. At no point do these verses say that all jinns are descendants of Satan. The Quran clearly mentions that there exists good amongst the jinn and they abide in divergent sects / ways (72:11). They have the ability to discern truth (72:2) from falsehood (72:4) and understand that they will be judged (72:14-15). [2] It would be an incomprehensible position to insinuate / assert that righteous jinn have descended from Satan.
An independent jinn soul is assigned to the new human being to represent Satan's point of view.
With respect, there is again no proof of this.
The assigned jinn remains with the human being from birth to death, and serves as the main witness on the Day of Judgment (50:23).
There is no mention of an ‘assigned jinn’ in these verses. This is again an interpolation. The mention is of a ‘qarin’ (companion / comrade / associate) whose form has not been elaborated and such an assigned evil companion has been mentioned in other verses as well, such as verse 41:25. In the contexts cited, these ‘qarin’ are of evil nature (43:36) and have led not only humans astray, but also the jinn (41:25). It is noteworthy ‘shayatin’ is often used by the Quran as a generic term to reference all manner of evil ones including those from humankind (2:14). I have discussed this more in the article [3] below.
Dear Good Logic, I did respectfully ask you for explicit evidence and not interpolations as this is a very serious theological position that you have asserted. This would arguably require the explicit backing of the Quran.
Therefore given your response, I understand that there is no explicit proof for the position you have posited.
Thank you for sharing your views.
Kind regards,
Joseph
REFERENCES:
[1] Exalted Assemblies
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=84.0
[2] THE JINN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/jinn%20FM3.htm
[3] A CREATURE FROM THE EARTH
http://quransmessage.com/articles/creature%20FM3.htm
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Greetings Brother Joseph.
Thank you for your post.
Your quote: Therefore given your response, I understand that there is no explicit proof for the position you have posited.
You are entitled to your understanding of course.
However, taking the context of other verses, Qoran backs up the position I have posted. Why?
1-[ 38:69] and [43:5]clearly indicate something happened with us.
We are humans in this life,after the feud and the classification of Angels,other creation(animals..), humans and Jinns.It does not mean we will be "humans" after this life or we were humans before that?( 38:68)
Also how do we explain the two deaths?:
They will say, "Our Lord, you have put us to death twice,* and You gave us two lives; now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out?"
قالوا رَبَّنا أَمَتَّنَا اثنَتَينِ وَأَحيَيتَنَا اثنَتَينِ فَاعتَرَفنا بِذُنوبِنا فَهَل إِلىٰ خُروجٍ مِن سَبيلٍ
I also stand with the claim Jinn are descendants of Satan: (18:50) and (7:27).
Because our life in this world is a series of tests designed to expose our polytheistic ideas, idol worship is the only unforgivable offence (4:48, 4:116).
The world is divinely designed to manifest our decision to uphold either God's absolute authority, or Satan's idolatrous views (67:1-2). Only those who are totally certain about God's absolute authority are redeemed (26:89).
This is my understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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salam good logic,
You wrote " I also stand with the claim Jinn are descendants of Satan"
Not all of them. God reveals the creation of three beings: angels, jinn, and humans. human creation follows the other two. Iblis was a high ranking jinn in the company of the angels when the command was issued. Unlike the angels he could choose to disobey and exercised his free will in favor of rejection, thus he turns into shaytan, according to my understanding. His offspring is the shayatin, the rebellious jinn. The nas and the rest of the jinn are vulnerable to the whispers of the shayatin.
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Salam
Are you sure its iblis offsprings that are shayatin. From how I read 7:27 its satans and his qabiluhu. Qabilu would mean his tribe or soldiers or anyone who has the same intentions or the same goals. In that context I would say the shaytan and qubilu would be a reference to Iblis and other jinns but not restricted to only his offspring. Duriyatti is the word I recall used for offspring.
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Thank u again for ur answers but Good logic, I think the assertions you have made can be proven otherwise. But I thank u for ur input. My question still remains. Whether u say sins or consequences, the helpless do suffer as Allah leaves the sinful to increase on their sins. A child is unlikely to say thank u for raping me, mutilating me, torturing me and killing me so I could reach paradise. Do u understand what I am trying to say? People who say they are glad they went thru the bad to get to the good, have not been thru enuf bad! I think its about employing, what I call, the 95% to 5% theory. Allah makes sense 95% of the time and so the 5% has to make sense whether we understand it or not.
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Greetings Brother Joseph.
Thank you for your post.
Your quote: Therefore given your response, I understand that there is no explicit proof for the position you have posited.
You are entitled to your understanding of course.
Dear Good Logic,
As-salam alaykum
While I respect everyone's prerogative to an opinion, I only humbly take out time to write, share and provide resources for a forum such as this, is so that readers who constitute sincere truth-seekers may become better informed, whether it is through discussions or asking questions.
It is an opportunity to weigh one's position and an opportunity to highlight the weakness in one's premises or thoughts. It is an opportunity for sincere truth-seekers to attempt to find a better, more plausible rationale to the subject matter at hand and not simply a platform to share their views, even though it may not be well evidenced, or the views of other scholars or schools of thought without scrutiny and critique.
With respect, I have often noted that in the face of strong constructive criticism of your thoughts, you (albeit respectfully) seem not to attempt to revisit your position and make use of this forum simply to part your views even though they may not be well-evidenced from a Quran's perspective.
My intention for this forum is to increase the standard of debate and information sharing with etiquette (the latter is something you are Alhumdolillah, very adept at). This cannot happen, if individuals are simply prepared to part with their world-views without strong support from the Quran.
In the end, yes, you are entitled to your opinion and this forum allows that with of course, some provisos. God willing, I hope to see a more constructive, deeper research shared on this forum which can only assist to elevate the level of material that is found here.
Always wishing you well.
Regards,
Joseph
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Dear Zafreen,
The problem of evil is a real issue for some people. Including me sometimes. But I think that there is an explanation. You see, in my humble opinion everything God does can be backed by 2 principles. Either Justice or Mercy.
Evil in this life can be considered as necessary justice or mercy from God.
First thing to be considered is that being tested is an essential part of this life(with either good or evil). This is part of God's mercy. As these tests allow humans to wake up and start moving towards the right path. Tests are a way to teach humans. Without them one could find himself deserving hell without realizing it. And it would not be unjust for him to go to hell. But because of God's mercy there are tests that allow help us in our spiritual growth.
But why test us in the first place ?
Again according to my understanding, its out of God's justice that we are tested. After all we are the ones who chose to be responsible of the AMANA.
Sometimes some people are a test for others. Just like the poor are a test for the rich.
But what did the poor do to be in this position in the first place ?
I think that it's part of God's wisdom. He knows what's best for every soul. Maybe if this poor person was made rich he would transgress. So God made him poor which is again mercy from God. Maybe being poor for a particular person is something necessary for his spiritual growth. Only God knows.
What I am trying to say is that sometimes God may do things that may seem evil from the outside because we do not see the whole picture. But maybe this evil is actually good. Because it may help a person enter paradise.
On the other hand, God also said that people who believe and do good deeds in this world, will live a good life. (On earth). so its not all evil. Also blessing in this world for some people are actually a bad thing. Because god uses them to mislead the wrongdoers. Sometimes there is underlying wisdom that we do not comprehend. Remember the story of moses and the man who was granted knowledge ?
Another example is how god created people ranks over each other. This is necessary for life on earth to go on. Evil is this world can also be a punishment from God. (This is out of justice)
Finally, the reward of the hereafter is better and more lasting. So what ever befalls a person in this world. One must remember that its not the end. On the contrary its merely the beginning.
A child is unlikely to say thank u for raping me, mutilating me, torturing me and killing me so I could reach paradise
There is wisdom behind everything that happens. Even if it seems evil. God is just and merciful. So anything that happens can be originated from these 2 principles. Even if with our limited perception we can't see the wisdom behind what happens.
Hope this helps.
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Thank u Good logic for ur input but I fail to see ur logic, no pun intended.
I guess we need to employ what i call 95-5% theory!! If 95% of it makes sense then the other 5% must make sense too even tho I may not understand it. Anyone who says they are glad they went thru d bad as it made them who they are, have not gone they enough bad! Will a child who was kidnapped, sold, raped, mutilated and killed say to God, thank u as long as I reached paradise?
Whether we call it sin or consequence, the helpless suffer. Allah leaves the sinful to increase their sins and this impacts on the helpless.
Even the prophets needed their faith strengthened and we dnt have the miracles they had. We have a fallible logic. I dont see this question being answered fully.
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Greetings Brother Joseph.
First thank you for the conversation.
Second I hope I always tried to provide verses from Qoran whenever I discussed a topic.
My aim is to discuss in a friendly and respectful manner.
I also analyse the responses ,especially the verses of Qoran provided by others .
I also accept that there are differences,and it is important to challenge each other in search of the truth.
Finally, I respect the time and effort you have taken to create this website and I have no doubt that it is helping others.
With friendship.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Sorry my post went out twice!
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Dear Zafreen,
As brother Ahmad mentioned, we oftentimes fail to see the big picture. I hear your pain at the cruelty of man. I'm still dealing with the chopped off heads and just this morning I felt a tremendous pain to read the rescue story of the abused elephant for the past 50 years, bound by spiked chains around the ankles. Lifelong torture.
The universe is built on dualities. Evil is the implicit flip side of good. They are complementary, one without the other cannot exist. Evil came into existence as a consequence with the creation of potential for good that is required for man to be able to reach his spiritual potential. As someone said before, the world is an arena between the good and evil, with man holding the balance. Yes it was man's choice exercised between the two types of existence offered in the Garden. Man could continue to exist in a state of bliss under the care and protection of God, dependent eternal life with limited growth. Man chooses the second existence that comes with a life of challenges, knowledge, responsibility, mortality, life full of pain and joy. Natural and moral evil challenge man. Man falls victim to the forces of physical nature as well as the nature of man himself.
Why God does not intervene? Since our declaration of independence, God operates more in the background, patiently observing the unfolding of the events caused by us, subtly guiding and at times intervening but mostly giving us a chance to redeem ourselves and change our behaviors for the good of all.
Peace,
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Dear Zafreen,
Anyone who says they are glad they went thru d bad as it made them who they are, have not gone they enough bad! Will a child who was kidnapped, sold, raped, mutilated and killed say to God, thank u as long as I reached paradise?
I just wanted to add something: We do not know a lot about paradise, we have not been there, therefore we can't say that people who suffered great injustice in this life will not be happy with paradise as a reward. We just can't because we do not know. Look at the following verses for instance.
[98:7] Saheeh International
Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the best of creatures.
[98:8]
Their reward with Allah will be gardens of perpetual residence beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them and they with Him. That is for whoever has feared his Lord.
Furthermore, any suffering in this world ends but paradise does not, this is another thing to put in mind. Which brings me back to my point we do not see the whole picture nor do we know all the wisdom behind what's happening. The best thing to do is to purify ourselves, endure patiently and put our trust in God.
Hope this helps
Peace. :)
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Which brings me back to my point we do not see the whole picture nor do we know all the wisdom behind what's happening. The best thing to do is to purify ourselves, endure patiently and put our trust in God.
As-salam alaykum
This point by brother Ahmad is exquisitely elaborated in the narrative concerning Prophet Moses and is presented as deep learning for believers. The narratives make it clear that even a great patriarch such as Prophet Moses could never contemplate God's complete purpose / wisdom and found himself falling short of bearing with patience with regards to it.
This deeper learning was something Prophet Moses sought himself (18:66). Prophet Moses was warned that he would not be able to sustain with patience (18:67). The reason cited was that he did not possess complete understanding (encompassing knowledge) and thus, by deduction, he would not be able to sustain with patience (18:68).
- A boat was marred / scuttled. Prophet Moses questioned the action in utter dismay (18:71). What he didn't know was that working boats were being seized by force by the orders of a king and by making the boat unserviceable; he assisted the poor men who worked hard on the river so that their means to a livelihood (their boat) wasn't taken from them (18:79).
Moral - Trust in God's purpose and put faith in Him (3:159). We cannot fathom God's overarching wisdom.
- A boy was slain. Prophet Moses exclaimed that the action was a horrid / evil thing. (18:74). What he didn't know was that God knew that the child would become an obstinate, rebellious individual and the parents were righteous people of faith (18:80). In this instance, a particular decision was made to exchange him for one better in purity, conduct and closer to compassion and affection. (18:81)
Moral - Trust in God's purpose and put faith in Him (3:159). We cannot fathom God's overarching wisdom.
- After being refused hospitality, a wall was repaired. Prophet Moses again questioned the action (18:77). What he didn't know was that a treasure belonging to orphan boys of the city lay beneath the wall and their father was a righteous man. God desired that their treasure be given to them when they reached maturity as a mercy from the Lord. (18:82)
Moral - Trust in God's purpose and put faith in Him (3:159). We cannot fathom God's overarching wisdom.
Yes, there are differences in people's means. Some are wealthy, some not so; others destitute. Some of these differences are for the purposes of seeking labour (43:32), others for example, as a means to trial those with plenty to ascertain their extent of charity and as an opportunity to provide charity.
God makes it clear that some of us are a means of trial for others. There is no doubt about this.
025:020 (part)
"...And We have made some of you [people] as a trial for others - will you have patience? And your Lord is All-Seeing"
There are indeed atrocities committed. Some as a consequence as what our own hands reap (4:79; 30:41), and others, as a means for trial [1] & [2].
030.041
“Corruption does appear on land and sea because of (the evil) which men's hands have done, so that He may let them taste a part of that which they have done, in order that they may return.”
Suffering and trials have been made clear as part of God’s purpose for His servants. There is no confusion about the matter. From a Quran’s perspective, it is a fact and the Scripture has exemplified this in many ways, including the sharing of experiences of others. The whole of Surah / Chapter 12 (Joseph) is one such example.
029.002
“Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, "We believe", and that they will not be tested?”
008.028
"And know that your wealth and your children are but a trial; and that it is God with Whom lies your highest reward"
003.186
"Ye shall certainly be tried and tested in your wealth and in yourselves; and ye shall certainly hear much that will grieve you, from those who received the Book before you and from those who worship many gods. But if ye persevere patiently, and guard against evil, then that will be a determining factor in all affairs"
002.155
"And surely We will test you with something of fear and hunger, and loss of wealth and lives and the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere"
009:050-1
If good befalls you, it grieves them, and if disaster (Arabic: Musibatun) afflicts you, they say: Indeed we had taken care of our affair before; and they turn back and are glad. Say: "Nothing will happen to us except what God has decreed for us: He is our protector": and on God let the Believers put their trust.
So much of God's plan has been made clear in the Quran. I have already shared many of those verses in the articles below.
What we cannot fathom is due to an inherent limitation of not being able to see the future or fathom the unseen. This is where Tawakkal Ala Allah (trust / reliance in God) comes to the fore, as a fundamental component in a believer’s article of faith. [3]
Some ask the question, why did God just not create us and place us straight in a place of felicity, paradise? This would undoubtedly be an unjust thing if one only gave this matter some thought. With volition, and an element of free will, comes culpability, accountability. Why should two individuals with volition be simply given the same status in paradise, when inherently if they were to be trialled, one would have remained righteous, and the other, a manifest tyrant?
A testing ground is the inevitable result of being granted ‘volition’. IF man assumes such a role, a trust (amana), then he must also assume the responsibility that comes with it. [4]
I hope that helps, God willing
Joseph
REFERENCES:
[1] Suffering & Adversity
http://quransmessage.com/articles/suffering%20FM3.htm
[2] We will be Tested
http://quransmessage.com/articles/tests%20FM3.htm
[3] Tawakkal Ala Allah
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/301381193332348
[4] Trust to the Heavens, Earth and Mountains
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=85.0
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Everything ypu all have said are the very things I have said so far. HOWEVER..... I do not think good cannot NOT exist at the absence of evil. Allah can do anything. Before jinns n humans with volition there was good without any bad. This question cannot b answered satisfactorily! It really cant. A child is not a man with volition!! It just receives pain and this pain i dnt understand. Allah knows our concept of time. We dnt view suffering like he does! He knows d end but we dnt. We use our fallible logic to fill in d gaps whereas the prophets had their faith strengthened even after being inspired! What does that tell us!!
Anyway thank u again but i dnt c us progressing
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salam Zafreen,
you said there was good without any bad once. yes there was in the Garden. they were in a state of bliss; but it was a controlled environment. all their needs were met by God. man's choice was between this blissful state, or a guilded cage existence and an existence that comes with knowledge, freedom and potential. You cannot pick and choose from these two sets of existence.
People reject to put goodness and evil or torture and mercy on the same continuum but good only exists with its duality evil just like other dualities of light and dark, positive and negative charge in the created universe by the wisdom of the Creator.
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We use our fallible logic to fill in d gaps whereas the prophets had their faith strengthened even after being inspired! What does that tell us!!
Anyway thank u again but i dnt c us progressing
Dear Zafreen,
As-salam alaykum
I have sincerely tried to provide you responses based primarily on the Quranic evidence in the form of comments and elucidating articles. I believe there to be sufficient proof in those verses to answer your question aptly. I can certainly see that others have also endeavoured to part with their opinion seemingly to the best of their abilities.
It is a pity that you do not agree with the perspective that is being shared and ultimately it is you that will have to come to terms with what is an existential reality, which is suffering and our overarching purpose on earth.
Thank you for your question and as you do not see the progression of this discussion any further, this thread will be closed forthwith. I sincerely hope and trust that you will find other discussions on various topics and material on this site of use in due course, Insha'Allah. :)
Regards,
Joseph
PS: For interested readers, please see another link below where I discussed injustice and suffering from a Quran's perspective. The question that was asked was as follows:
Dear Brother Joseph,
Peace.
According to your study, how would you explain the way Quran deals with injustice and suffering in this world (in spite of an All Powerful God fully in control)? There is suffering which is man made by which man reaps what he sows, but things happen to people and nations (like famine, natural disasters, disease, tsunamis, birth of crippled children, death of infants and mothers or fathers of infants) etc. etc.
Injustice & Suffering
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=758