QM Forum
The Quran => General Discussions => Topic started by: Irfan on August 28, 2015, 07:40:54 AM
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Salamun alaikum all:
"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge" - 65:12 (Y. Ali)
This verse is mostly explained by asserting that there are as many earths as there are heavens. However, I am not aware of any verse of the Qur'an where the plural of the word "ardh" (araadh-iy). It is noted that whenever the combination of heavens and earth is mentioned in the Qur'an, it is always the plural form of heaven (samawaati) but a singular form of earth is used. So, over 300 times in the Qur'an we see "heavens and the earth" , not "heavens and the earths". That being the case, should we still insist on trranslation of the phrase "wa min al-ardhi mithlahunna") as "seven earths"? Or, is there an alternative explanation of this verse (65:12)?
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Wa alaikum assalam brother Irfan,
I personally don't read 'saba' in this context as literally 'seven' but more denoting multiplicity as argued in the article [1] below.
My humble view on this is that the main reference point of the listener of the Quran / to whom the Quran is revealed / the primary audience, is the land they stand on and forms part of their immediate world (hence mostly 'ard' referenced denoting planet earth) and the heavens that they can comprehend around them, particularly in the night sky (hence reference to the heavens).
However in verse 65:12, the multiplicity of the heavens is given clear analogy and alikeness in multiplicity when it comes to 'other lands', possibly referring to other habitable planets arguably teeming with life within the entirety of the wider Universe. The latter sentiment is also arguably supported by verse 42:29 and as I have humbly discussed in the following article [2] below.
I trust that clarifies from my humble perspective.
Regards,
Joseph
REFERENCES:
[1] ARE THERE SEVEN HEAVENS OR SEVERAL HEAVENS?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/are%20there%20seven%20heavens%20or%20several%20heavens%20FM3.htm
[2] DO ALIENS EXIST?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/do%20aliens%20exist%20FM3.htm
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Thanks for this clarification on 'multiplicity' brother Joseph. Makes a lot of sense, especially when one considers the known structure of our universe; and the theoretical concept known as 'multiverses.'
This will also help me on my own work on the Qur'an and the cosmos.
With regards,
Imran
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Salam, brother Joseph:
I completely agree with you regarding the significance of the number 7 (or even 70, or 100 as they appear in the Qur'an). I have always taken this number as meaning "several or many (indefinite)". However, when the word “saba’a” is translated into non-Arabic language, it is usually translated as "seven", its meaning is then left to the readers to decide what they make of it. The main point of the question was why Allah uses the singular for "ardh" everywhere.
I believe the Qur'an is for all times and not restricted to its primary audience. Allah would not hide the truth from anyone regardless of the time frame. I am aware of 42:29 (and some other verses) and my understanding of that verse is not very different from yours, in that, there is certainly life out there (I take the word "daabbah" as a "living entity" in general and not necessarily as land animals or creeping/walking animals). However, I believe that other planets may not have exactly the same living conditions as we have on this earth (e.g., nucleic acids/enzymes or proteins and other chemicals in the same proportion, etc). So, in my humble understanding, while those planets/heavenly bodies are indeed a part of the "samawaatt” , they may not be exactly called "earth/s" (in regard to its specific chemical and physical composition).
Now I do realize that if my understanding is correct (which I am not sure it is---hence the inquiry), then how do I understand “mithlahunna” (like them--heavens) in 65:12. In this verse, the sense of “similar number” has always been implied but not explicitly mentioned. I tend to ask myself the question - could the phrase “mithlahunna” in this verse mean “Just as God has created seven heavens, He has created the earth also/similarly/in a similar fashion”. Another way out of this difficulty may be to say that the word “ardh” may be both singular and plural in “classic Arabic of the 7th century”---that’s pure speculation, though.
So, apparently, the question is still there—why did Allah use the word “ardh” in a singular form in over 300 hundred times. I ask this because I don’t think anyone in the 7th would have objected to Allah telling them unambiguously about the “seven heavens and seven earths”. The verse 42:29 is clear, as you have rightly pointed out, that there is life in the 'samawaat'. Other verses also tend to support this notion (19:93-96, for example). In fact, some of the ‘intelligent beings’ may be even superior to us in the Divine design, as per 17:70:
17:70 Verily We have honored the children of Adam. We carry them on the land and the sea, and have made provision of good things for them, and have preferred them above many of those whom We created with a marked preferment.
Another noteworthy point can be made from the famous verse 21:30. This verse that describes how the “Heavens and the earth” were created in a big cosmic event, also treats the “heavens and the earth” separately as part of this cleaving event.
These are not the views that I could ‘vouch for’ and put a seal of confidence on. Nevertheless, I do think that this issue may require further reflection. Thanks.
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Peace Irfan.
May I add another point of view?
Now I believe life is only possible on Earth!!! Why?
Because so far we have failed to find life being possible anywhere else ( from what little of the planets we have explored/studied....).
Some could argue,may be there are other planets that could offer the same form of life as earth out there in our universe?
I say Qoran implies the opposite! How?
GOD informs us that he created the "Samawat and the Earth" in six days(periods...), No mention of any other planet,only "Earth" even though many other planets exist.
Then the big chunk of the six periods (4 days/periods to be exact) is spent creating earth with all its materials that make life possible on it for us humans.
Now coming to (65:12) the clue to me is " Yatanazzalu al amru baynahunna...,litahlamu anna allaha ala kulli chaiin kadir"
I.e that you know... Is GOD implying there are other planets in our universe that are identical to our earth,however they lack the main thing which is "to support life for us". Science will one day come to realise that GOD created only our earth specifically with life for our trial, even though the universe that goes with it is a symbol of GOD s power to show us HIS greatness and to confirm to us that His message to us is the truth.
I agree with this view :
God created six other planets that are identical to our Earth in our universe, although there is life only on our planet. Thus, the evolutionists will be shown that life did not just ``evolve'' on the planet because of its particular circumstances. GOD created it as well as all the universe for the sole purpose of our trial.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Peace Good Logic,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. However, I trust that you will respectfully allow me to share once again, my strong disagreements with your views. [1]
My comments are respectfully shared in blue italics
"Now I believe life is only possible on Earth!!! Why? Because so far we have failed to find life being possible anywhere else ( from what little of the planets we have explored/studied....)."
This is a fantastic suggestion even though you have intimated that our exploration is extremely limited. Just because we haven’t explored every corner of the Universe (arguably impossible given the extent) and found life, this does not mean that life does not exist. Verse 42:29 is explicit and both brother Irfan and I (as well as possibly others) have accepted it at its word along with other inferences the Quran alludes to.
"Some could argue,may be there are other planets that could offer the same form of life as earth out there in our universe? I say Qoran implies the opposite! How?
GOD informs us that he created the "Samawat and the Earth" in six days(periods...), No mention of any other planet,only "Earth" even though many other planets exist."
The Quran was revealed to earthly creatures. That is the reference point. God has used many persuasive argument techniques to enlighten humans of their surroundings and His creation, particularly those they can relate to. It also appears that you have made an 'argument from silence' (argumentum ex silentio) which is a well recognised informal fallacy.
"Then the big chunk of the six periods (4 days/periods to be exact) is spent creating earth with all its materials that make life possible on it for us humans."
This does not preclude the possible fact that the same ‘4 periods’ were not used to create other habitable environments in other parts of the Universe. This could quite easily occur simultaneously [2]. Furthermore, it is an unnecessarily restrictive interpretation to infer a ‘habitable’ environment purely from the lens of humans. Even on planet Earth and deep within the depths of the sea there are extreme environments that would not be ‘habitable’ for humans but life arguably thrives there. Simply, life is adapted to cater for its surroundings. So what may be deemed as ‘poisonous’ / inhabitable for humans may have life created to thrive in that environment whether it is planet Earth or arguably, elsewhere in the Universe.
"Now coming to (65:12) the clue to me is " Yatanazzalu al amru baynahunna...,litahlamu anna allaha ala kulli chaiin kadir"
I.e that you know... Is GOD implying there are other planets in our universe that are identical to our earth,however they lack the main thing which is "to support life for us"."
Once again respectfully, to support who? It appears once again, this is an extremely restrictive human-centric interpretation.
"Science will one day come to realise that GOD created only our earth specifically with life for our trial, even though the universe that goes with it is a symbol of GOD s power to show us HIS greatness and to confirm to us that His message to us is the truth."
You have now appeared to have presented your conclusion as ‘fact’ without any apparent warrant. Please see inductive fallacy.
I agree with this view :
"God created six other planets that are identical to our Earth in our universe, although there is life only on our planet. Thus, the evolutionists will be shown that life did not just ``evolve'' on the planet because of its particular circumstances. GOD created it as well as all the universe for the sole purpose of our trial."
With respect, there is absolutely no conclusive support for this. Also it does not surprise me that you have quoted Dr Rashad Khalifa's view [3] as this theme generally appears to be found in the gist of your arguments and subsequent posts. I understand that I may not be able to convince you to see otherwise (and it is not my duty to persuade you of course). I do understand that you possibly see Dr Rashad Khalifa as the messenger of the covenant / an authority by Divine decree and that is indeed your prerogative. It does appear that the majority (if not all) of your arguments are geared around Rashad Khalifa's views. However, my comments are primarily shared for the benefit of other readers.
With respect as always. Joseph
REFERENCES:
[1] Good Logic - QM Forum member, http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1483.msg6773#msg6773
[2] MY ILLUSTRATION - CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE IN SIX PERIODS. An illustration of the creation of the Heavens and the Earth in six periods with verse references: http://quransmessage.com/charts%20and%20illustrations/six%20periods/six%20periods%20FM2.htm
[3] KHALIFA, R. Quran - The Final Testament: Authorized English Version of the Original, Published by the United Community of Submitters, Page 2637, See footnote *65:12
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Peace Joseph.
Thank you for your reply.
Please allow me to clarify for you and others that my views/opinions/arguments... are geared around one source only " GOD s word", especially Qoran.
I take what is best from the rest,after using Qoran as a guide/check. For example the " 4 days of earth creation" is pecific to earth alone according to Qoran, "Ard"in Qoran refers to our Earth only.
You say:
This does not preclude the possible fact that the same ‘4 periods’ were not used to create other habitable environments in other parts of the Universe. This could quite easily occur simultaneously [2]. Furthermore, it is an unnecessarily restrictive interpretation to infer a ‘habitable’ environment purely from the lens of humans.
Is this backed up by Qoran?
And of course when you say:
However, my comments are primarily shared for the benefit of other readers.
I agree and so are mine.
At the end ,both my views,yours and others are all opinions that need checking/analysing/confirming by each reader ,then ,they can take or leave as their understanding /logic dictates .
For me Qoran is the most important criteria /measure. Science and history follow next.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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You say:
This does not preclude the possible fact that the same ‘4 periods’ were not used to create other habitable environments in other parts of the Universe. This could quite easily occur simultaneously [2]. Furthermore, it is an unnecessarily restrictive interpretation to infer a ‘habitable’ environment purely from the lens of humans.
Is this backed up by Qoran?
Peace good logic,
I think it is wholly unjustified that you ask me to back up something which the Quran does not implicitly deny. Respectfully, it is you that has presented a limiting interpretation which the Quran does not support and when a plausible alternative is presented, you appear to be unduly shifting the burden of proof. Please see fallacy 'Onus Probandi' (Shifting the burden of proof).
Furthermore, I have clearly stated an explicit verse 42:29 along with an illustration which you seem to have completely ignored.
Once again and respectfully, I do not want to engage in an unnecessary laboured discussion with you as there have been plenty of those [1]. Furthermore, this would not be conducive and given my own time restraints, it is not something I can sustain.
Therefore, please accept my comment as the last to you on this matter.
Regards,
Joseph
REFERENCE:
[1] Good Logic - QM Forum member, http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1483.msg6773#msg6773
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Peace Joseph.
Thank you.
I respect your choice.
By the way, I agree with your illustration, and I also agree with you on (42:29) apart may be what "dabah" can mean.
I also do not expect an answer or a discussion on this, and respect your decision to stop your comment here.
With friendship and peace.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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...and respect your decision to stop your comment here.
Thank you :)
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Peace good logic,
As brother Joseph pointed out, you want to address your views (life only on earth) by commenting on 42:29 (or 16:49). This is the key verse that clearly tells us that there are "daabbah" (life forms or crawlers/legged walkers) in "feehima" (in both the heavens and the earth). So I think this should not leave us any doubt that there is real life out in the cosmos - whether it is similar to our familiar life forms or not, is a question that we can talk about or better - speculate.
You may still have a point if you can provide some evidence from the Qur'an that the word "daabbah" in 42:29 may mean "angels"! Can the angels be considered "daabbah"? I don't think so as per 16;49 which separately metions daabbah and malaaikah. Furthermore, there is a definition of the word "daabah" given in 24:45.
Now, another possible thought that pops up in my mind by reflecting on "wa min al-ardhi mithalahunna" in 65:12 is the possibility that the word "ardh" here is being used in the form of the phrase "wa min al-ardh mithlahunna" (from the Earth in a similar fashion) and not "al-ardh mithlahunna". So, the verse 65:12 would make some sense to assume that our planet Earth is (in a similar fashion) made of seven/many - (perhaps) layers/varieties - with no specific reference to life. In that case, the verse 65:12 should be treated independently of 42:29 an 16:49. The latter is a valid possible because the word "ardh" in the Qur'an is not only mentioned solely as the planet "Earth" but also in the context of 'a part of the planet Earth (i.e, country, a tract of land where a community lives) in several verses (e.g., 5:21, 7:110). This most likely refers to the extraordinary diversity of shapes and beauty of the many different parts of the planet Earth - like seven/many heavens.
God be praised. The Qur'an is an infinite ocean - it satisfies human curiosity at several levels - what a grace of the Most High!
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Peace Irfan.
My take on "Dabbah":
1-It could be any living beings. eg,Angels,humans,Animals/insects,other "moving creatures".
2- It could be any created "material" vegetation,soil,rocks,,etc...
3- It could be what humans made out of these materials, aeroplanes,cars,computers,etc...
4- Or any combination of any of the 3.
For example :What does "dabbah" here mean?
وَإِذا وَقَعَ القَولُ عَلَيهِم أَخرَجنا لَهُم دابَّةً مِنَ الأَرضِ تُكَلِّمُهُم أَنَّ النّاسَ كانوا بِـٔايٰتِنا لا يوقِنونَ
If we can think that everything created consists of "Atoms" . Qantom physics is setting a whole new thinking about atoms and their behaviour. i.e a living matter in all creation?
So does GOD recall back to Him everything created?
Another thought to ponder.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Peace Good Logic,
I think the Daabah cannot be a machine, or computer. It spits whatever is fed into it. It cannot decipher the Revelation.
And I don't think dabbah is angels either---please take a look at 16:49 where the dabbah and the angels are mentioned as separate entities. Also, the definition of the (dabbah) is given in 24:45—it seems to be all about animals - man is included as an example of the “daabah” as per 24:45 – and so are the birds because they are bipedal also (some people may not include birds because they are mentioned separately from the daabbah in the same verse).
Now, a word about the following verse you quoted (27:82):
وَإِذا وَقَعَ القَولُ عَلَيهِم أَخرَجنا لَهُم دابَّةً مِنَ الأَرضِ تُكَلِّمُهُم أَنَّ النّاسَ كانوا بِـٔايٰتِنا لا يوقِنونَ
I must admit that I do not have a clear understanding of this verse despite my best efforts. This seems to be a prediction. If I were a Sunni or a Shi’a, I would say “Ahah, this is precisely about the “Mahdi” who will come at the end of time!!!
Even though I am not sold on the concept of some Mehdi coming to the world to convince the world of the veracity of the Qur’anic signs, I must ask you the question: Why can’t a man (or a group of men) be the "dabbah" referred to in this verse? After all, man was created from the clay, therefore he fits right into the term (min al-ardhi). I believe a knowledgeable man of the 21st century can understand the Qur'an much, much better than the classical “imams”. The ancient imams did not have the tools that we are blessed with today and I am sure the understanding of the Qur’an will get even better as God exposes man to more and more knowledge. Things are shaping up in a way that can potentially convince even the hard-core scientists. I believe we will have a lot more Francis Collins in time. The future will undoubtedly bring more astonishing discoveries about the realities of the Qur’an.
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Peace Irfan.
I understand from 16:49 GOD singled out "Malaika" as the best example of all the "Dabbahs" in that none of them are arrogant.
It does not mean "Angels" cannot be "dabbah"!
I understand from 24:45, that GOD is specifically talking abut the living creatures on earth ( water mentioned here,is also mentioned elsewhere- We made every living creature from water- Wa jaalna mina almaai kulla chain hai-)
As for 27:82, to me "dabbah mina alard " could not be human.Otherwise it would have been " Basharan minhum"or similar. Why?
Because.Qoran always uses "Basharan rasoolan" when it talks about sending a human.Also the word "Akhrajna" does not mean send.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Asalamu Alykum
Dear Irfan and Good logic
Since your talking about verse
027.082
"And when the Word (Arabic: Qawlu) is fulfilled against them, we will bring forth for them a creature from the earth (Arabic: dabata-minal-ardi) speaking to them, that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our verses / signs"
I think this article is worth reading may God be willing.
A CREATURE FROM THE EARTH
http://quransmessage.com/articles/creature%20FM3.htm
Kind regards
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Peace Hamzeh.
Thank you for your input.
My understanding about "Waquaa al kaoulu alaihim"وَقَعَ القَولُ عَلَيهِم can mean from any generation after the prophet.
The following verses clarify it for us:
27:83
وَيَومَ نَحشُرُ مِن كُلِّ أُمَّةٍ فَوجًا مِمَّن يُكَذِّبُ بِـٔايٰتِنا فَهُم يوزَعونَ
27:84
حَتّىٰ إِذا جاءو قالَ أَكَذَّبتُم بِـٔايٰتى وَلَم تُحيطوا بِها عِلمًا أَمّاذا كُنتُم تَعمَلونَ
27:85
وَوَقَعَ القَولُ عَلَيهِم بِما ظَلَموا فَهُم لا يَنطِقونَ
I also gave you what I thought " Dabbah mina alard " could not be and why?
I did say that is my understanding.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Peace to you too Bro Good logic
Thanks for your input as well. What do you have to say about your understanding after reading the article?
Would your understanding still remain that the word "dabbah" cannot be a reference to a human? or a computer?
"As for 27:82, to me "dabbah mina alard " could not be human.Otherwise it would have been " Basharan minhum"or similar. Why?
Because.Qoran always uses "Basharan rasoolan" when it talks about sending a human.Also the word "Akhrajna" does not mean send.
I probably would not restrict that verse you just mentioned 27:85 to the generations after the Prophet, if you look at the previous verses it seems clears that this incident is taking place on the Day of Judgement with every nation(kulli Ommatin).
May God bless you too bro
Peace
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Peace Hamzeh.
Yes my understanding that "Dabbah" in 27:82 cannot be a referenvce to a "human".
However it could be a reference to any "communication technology" internet/app....etc?
Now the key words in verse 27:82 to me are:
1- Al-naasa" General for any generation after the prophet.
2- " La yuquinoon"- Not certain. What makes people certain is different from what makes them believe!
i.e different from " La-yuminoon"
To be certtain can be done only by evidence, to believe can be done by faith or evidence.
GOD chooses His words carefully and deliberately.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Peace Good logic
I suggest you read the article again and try to understand it. Im also not just accepting it blindly. Brother Joseph clearly identifies that the word dabbah in verse 27:82 can mean a human in the negative form. And also clearly identifies that it cannot mean a computer because 24:45 states that God created every dabbah from water.
Just incase your not understanding the verse correctly. My own interpolation of the verse after understanding the article im pretty sure is saying that when God decides that a human/s whether singular or in a group or community has had His signs manifested to him/them and they disbelieve and become branded as kaffirs/disbelievers then God brings forth to him/them a creature from the earth to speak to him/them. BECAUSE THEY DID NOT WITH CERTAINTY BELIEVE IN GODS SIGNS/VERSES. Now in my opinion these creatures can also be from one another speaking to each other or not. Only God knows.
The previous verses is telling the Prophet that he cannot make the deaf or the blind to hear or to be taken off their misguidance . Only the ones who believe in Gods signs are the ones who LISTEN to the Prophet.
There is a context thats needs to be considered to understand the Al-naas that you mentioned
With Peace and Blessings Insha'Allah
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Peace Hamzeh.
Thank you for explaining your view in detail.
The context for me gives a different view. Let me explain why?:
1- People are not certain about what? Would you agree it is "AAyaat" from GOD?
2- 27;84 clarifies further that : Lam tuhitoo biha ilman" i.e you have not studied/checked/analysed...the" Aayaats"
3-Staying with the context the surah ends with: Sanureehim Aayatina fi ...Hatta yatabayyana lhum annahu alhaq"
My understanding is by studying/checking the "Aayaats" ,we become certain that it is the truth and authored by GOD.
How can we become certain? By checking/analysing/studying ,then finding evidence that only GOD could have authored Qoran.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
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Asalamu Alykum
Thanks brother Good Logic for your response
Before I make my next comment I would like to under stand this verse actually a little better Insha'Allah.
Here are 3 different translations
Yusuf Ali
And when the Word is fulfilled against them (the unjust), we shall produce from the earth a beast to (face) them: He will speak to them, for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs.
Sahih International
And when the word befalls them, We will bring forth for them a creature from the earth speaking to them, [saying] that the people were, of Our verses, not certain [in faith].
And when the Word is fulfilled against them, we shall bring out from the earth a beast to them: which will speak to them because mankind believed not with certainty in Our Signs.
The word in question for me is "Anna"
The verse is saying that the dabbah will be speaking to the people, and not that it says to them. So gives me the impression that sahib international translation is a bit off.
I always assumed "Anna" meant "because"
you said1- People are not certain about what? Would you agree it is "AAyaat" from GOD?
I don't think the the word "Aayaat" is speaking about the verses of the Quran ONLY . I would think it means Signs. There is a lot of people who don't get a chance to study and check the verses of the Quran academically however they are giving signs(Ayat) all around them while they still do wrong things. There is lots of people who may be convinced that the Quran is the word of God by also not understanding everything and every verse(Aya) As a matter of fact only God himself knows the full knowledge of that.3:7(part) "but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah."
People come to God in many different ways. Sometimes one verse or the structure of the Quran and its overall explanation can bring people to complete faith.
2- 27;84 clarifies further that : Lam tuhitoo biha ilman" i.e you have not studied/checked/analysed...the" Aayaats"
27:83 One day We shall gather together from every people a troop of those who reject our Signs, and they shall be kept in ranks,-
This verse clarifies that it cannot be restricted to just the time after the Prophet Muhammad. So signs here is not only speaking about the Quranic verses. Signs are that this world is created by God himself. Only he has the full knowledge of how everything is. The space the planets and everything in it. There are signs all over us. Including the Quran of course.
27:84 Until, when they come (before the Judgment-seat), (Allah) will say: "Did ye reject My Signs, though ye comprehended them not in knowledge, or what was it ye did?"
Seems to me God is being so just. Was it the lack of knowledge that lead you to deny the signs all around you that God is the creator of all these things. Or what else was it that us humans were doing. This
27:86 See they not that We have made the Night for them to rest in and the Day to give them light? Verily in this are Signs for any people that believe!
3-Staying with the context the surah ends with: Sanureehim Aayatina fi ...Hatta yatabayyana lhum annahu alhaq"
The last part you mentioned is not in the last verse "Hatta yatabayyana lhum annahu alhaq".
But the last 3 verses of the Surah 27:91-93 are telling the Prophet to say to his people in my summary that He is commanded to worship God and to submit to God himself. And also to recite the Quran to the people and that he is only a warner. And also to say to his people that all praise is to God. God will show them his signs. He will manifest to them that what the messenger is coming with is the word of God. Remember the Quran was revealed to them in parts. So that they may become certain God will show them his signs and they will know some how. Maybe when God says in 3 to 9 years the romans will win. Or through the events that those people went through.
How can we become certain? By checking/analysing/studying ,then finding evidence that only GOD could have authored Qoran.
People come certain in many different ways. People already have been passed the message that the Quran is the word of God. And itself it claims that. If we check the Quran to our fallible minds we fail in accusing the Quran to be false because it doesn't fit to our understanding. Certainty comes from the whole Quran altogether. its all the verses put together that makes the Quran. Not checking one by one and accepting some and not the others. Its either the whole of it is or its not. At the same time I do agree with you that the Quran is a sign for sure.
But anyways in the end you said that you think that the word dabbah can be technology internet communication or app. and that dabbah cannot be a reference to a human. So how can you justify your answer after there is clear verses that indicate otherwise.
024.045
"And God has created every moving creature (Arabic: dabbatin) from water. Of them there are some that creep on their bellies and some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. God creates what He wills for verily God has power over all things"
008.022
"Indeed, the worst of creatures (Arabic: dawabi) near God are the deaf, the dumb, those who do not use (their) intellect"
008.055
"Indeed, the worst of creatures (Arabic: dawabi) near God are those who disbelieve and they will not believe"
035.045
"And if God were to punish people (Arabic: naas) for what they deserve / have earned, He would not leave on the back of the (earth) a single living creature (Arabic: dabbatin): but He gives them respite for an appointed term. When their term expires, verily God has in His sight all His Servants"
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Peace Hamzah.
I follow your analysis. I am aware of what you are saying.
However when you say:
I don't think the the word "Aayaat" is speaking about the verses of the Quran ONLY . I would think it means Signs. There is a lot of people who don't get a chance to study and check the verses of the Quran academically
I understand from 27:92: وَأَن أَتلُوَا۟ القُرءانَ فَمَنِ اهتَدىٰ فَإِنَّما يَهتَدى لِنَفسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَقُل إِنَّما أَنا۠ مِنَ المُنذِرينَ that it talking about Qoran.
Hence 27:93: وَقُلِ الحَمدُ لِلَّهِ سَيُريكُم ءايٰتِهِ فَتَعرِفونَها وَما رَبُّكَ بِغٰفِلٍ عَمّا تَعمَلونَ
You may say it also means other "signs". But ,for me, from the context of all the verses - including the "dabbah" ,people should recognise,become certain that Qoran has evidence/sign/proof( that can be "seen"/"recognised" ) that it is authored by GOD.
"Aayat" in Qoran can mean any of these:
1-Verse/s of the scripture
2- sign/s as in nature or sign/s as in instruction from GOD ( Zaccariah asked for a sign from GOD- Not to speak to people for three days-)
3- Miracle/proof _Moses came with "Aayat" to Pharaoh-
So for me the context means there is "Aayat" in Qoran that confirms it is from GOD for those who want to be certain,for those that recognise/see this "Aayat".-Yuhito biha ilman-
GOD bless you.
Peace