Tellingly, the sun's orbit is always mentioned in the context of night and day. This is a huge point here, it leads to the conclusion that it is probable that the author of the Quran believed in a geocentric view of the solar system.
Here is an example: 21:033
"And He is the One who created the night and the day and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit
Notice how it puts together the motion of the sun and the moon and implies a relation of that motion with night and the day. I'm curious to know how this is reconciled? It seems to be the achilles heel here showing the author of the Quran clearly implies geocentricism over heliocentricism.
Peace Lobotomise.
When the "night and day are mentioned it means also "Earth ". i.e the verse/s is/are talking about earth .
It is obviously emphasized in the verses that “night and day” also move in an orbit. The reference made to night and day in the Qoran is always related to the Earth’s night and day. In other words, what is actually stated in these verses is the fact that Earth also revolves in an orbit just like the sun and moon!
For a moment, think about the movement of the earth in the space. While the earth is revolving around the sun, night and day which always and together exist above the earth also revolve in an orbit around the sun. From this perspective, the verses have an extremely subtle expression.
GOD bless you.
Peace.
... the argument is the fact that the Sun and Moon's orbits are almost always mentioned with the movement of night and day means that the author of the Quran was implying the the sun and the moon's orbit is the direct reason why we observe night and day. This is false, the Earth's orbit is the reason we observe night and day. And not once has the Quran mentioned the involvement of Earth's movement. This is telling.
1--Ten years ago, your statement would have been correct. Since then, I made it my business to learn Arabic and study Qoran from cover to cover.
I am happy to announce I have now memorised most of the Qoran in Arabic.
Yes brother From surah "Alfatiha, to surah "Al-Naas", I am still rehearsing the "HM s" chapters as i am finding I need more practice with these surahs.
GOD willing I have made a target to achieve my goal of memorising all Qoran by this year- 2016- from cover to cover.
This is another project I wanted to add to my study of Qoran for my own benefit.
I am more than happy to meet with you and some volunteer witnesses to check my claim.
2- I do not claim to be an expert or expect anyone to take my words as "facts" like you seem to imply about you.
I always ask others to use "17:36" and check for themselves. Also Qoran is clear that knowing Arabic is not the most important factor to study/ learn Qoran:
2:118
وَقالَ الَّذينَ لا يَعلَمونَ لَولا يُكَلِّمُنَا اللَّهُ أَو تَأتينا ءايَةٌ كَذٰلِكَ قالَ الَّذينَ مِن قَبلِهِم مِثلَ قَولِهِم تَشٰبَهَت قُلوبُهُم قَد بَيَّنَّا الـٔايٰتِ لِقَومٍ يوقِنونَ
GOD is saying here "those you attain certainty", It does not mean those who understand Arabic!!!
5:68:
قُل يٰأَهلَ الكِتٰبِ لَستُم عَلىٰ شَىءٍ حَتّىٰ تُقيمُوا التَّورىٰةَ وَالإِنجيلَ وَما أُنزِلَ إِلَيكُم مِن رَبِّكُم وَلَيَزيدَنَّ كَثيرًا مِنهُم ما أُنزِلَ إِلَيكَ مِن رَبِّكَ طُغيٰنًا وَكُفرًا فَلا تَأسَ عَلَى القَومِ الكٰفِرينَ
GOD is saying here "whether one knows Arabic or not" most will not benefit from Qoran!!!!
7:146:
سَأَصرِفُ عَن ءايٰتِىَ الَّذينَ يَتَكَبَّرونَ فِى الأَرضِ بِغَيرِ الحَقِّ وَإِن يَرَوا كُلَّ ءايَةٍ لا يُؤمِنوا بِها وَإِن يَرَوا سَبيلَ الرُّشدِ لا يَتَّخِذوهُ سَبيلًا وَإِن يَرَوا سَبيلَ الغَىِّ يَتَّخِذوهُ سَبيلًا ذٰلِكَ بِأَنَّهُم كَذَّبوا بِـٔايٰتِنا وَكانوا عَنها غٰفِلينَ
Brother, it is obvious to you,since you know Arabic what GOD is saying here.i.e irrelavant whether one knows Arabic!!!
41:44:
وَلَو جَعَلنٰهُ قُرءانًا أَعجَمِيًّا لَقالوا لَولا فُصِّلَت ءايٰتُهُ ءَأَعجَمِىٌّ وَعَرَبِىٌّ قُل هُوَ لِلَّذينَ ءامَنوا هُدًى وَشِفاءٌ وَالَّذينَ لا يُؤمِنونَ فى ءاذانِهِم وَقرٌ وَهُوَ عَلَيهِم عَمًى أُولٰئِكَ يُنادَونَ مِن مَكانٍ بَعيدٍ
And similarly here!!!!
In other words GOD is saying:
56:79:
لا يَمَسُّهُ إِلَّا المُطَهَّرونَ
Hope that clarifies my side for you and the readers.
First you say:
I'm a native Arabic speaker and a linguist/Arabist by profession .
Then you go on to claim,quote:
Too bad, the Quran's original language is neither MSA nor Classical Arabic, but "Nabatean" Aramaic !
Need I say more?
But you omitted the part where I said "I have been studying Qoran for the last few years.
Hicham9, please start verifying and stop swallowing up everything the internet tells you.
(http://airpano.ru/files/Stratosphere-Caucasus/images/image1.jpg)
افلا ينظرون ... الى الارض كيف سطحت
Do they not then look ... at the earth how was it flattened/leveled ?
The root سطح denoting flatness/levelnes is known in Arabic and well attested in the šemitic tree, like e.g., šṭḥ (ܫܛܥ) in Aramaic — adj. šṭīḥ (ܫܛܝܼܚܐ) means: flat — also, cf. šṭīḥūṯā (ܫܛܝܚܘܬܐ) = flatness, and šṭīḥāʔīṯ (ܫܛܝܼܚܿܐܝܬ) = in a flat way/form; ...
Natheless, the qurānic vb. suṭiḥat (سطحت) in 88:20 is oftentimes misconstructed by traditionalists as "spread" ! They try to hide earth's flatness/levelness (in the Qurān) from the foreign reader. This, i suspect is done either intentionally or subconsciously (out of bias, as most Adamites adhere to heliocentrism nowadays).
Earth's flatness/levelness is an OBSERVABLE living FACT backed up by ground-based experiments (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm) and high-altitude o (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tvhFbvY_99o)bservational evidence. Hence, the quranic question: Do they not then LOOK ?! (افلا ينظرون)
And as I said: The word "ard" means "surface of earth" or "land", not earth. Yes, the Quran says the land was leveled/spread out for us to use it. It does not say the earth itself was leveled.[/b] Why do you keep ignoring this fact? I should probably stop replying to you, but you are repeatedly ignoring the factual information that I'm giving you, and I can't let that go unnoticed.
Second, Brother Joseph doesn't speak Arabic either, the last time I checked. He uses Lane's Lexicon for checking the meanings of words.
About my comment that Brother JAI doesn't know Arabic: I'm pretty sure he doesn't, but if he actually does, I'm sorry. I wasn't sure if he actually did or not.
the real quranic term for land....
What do you mean by "real Quranic term"? Furthermore, as evident by the following verse, the word earth (ard) is used to mean 'land'. So....
The equivalent of QA: ارض in English is earth [ ea/ʔ (ا) r (ر) th (ض) ]
This is because like ارض, earth in english denotes the same meaning/s and functions in the same way.
Moreover, the quranic term for land in specific (ie. In contrast with the sea) is br (بر) (http://corpus.quran.com/wordmorphology.jsp?location=(6:63:6))- not ارض !
words used in the Quran have multiple meanings
turn a blind eye to most occurrences of ʔl.ʔarḍ in the Qurān (الارض in 88:20 included) whereof it clearly denotes the earth as a whole
Hassan: Exactly. The Quran is not saying that the planet itself is flat. Besides, nearly all celestial solid bodies the size of planets are spherical. They have to be, because gravity pushes them into that configuration. They couldn't exist otherwise, with the forces of gravity at work.
Hicham9: I can see that you are never, ever going to be convinced. You have rejected all of our evidence and used numerous logical fallacies in your arguments. You still have no evidence to back up your claims. You provided pictures, but you yourself say that pictures can be edited and falsified. You told us the Quran supports geocentrism and a flat earth, but this was due to a mistranslation, which we corrected. You have no more ground to stand upon. From my understanding, this absurd "debate" is over, since you refuse to see the obvious. Well, we tried our best to convince you. We cannot do anything more.
I want to clarify: THE QURAN DOES NOT EXPLICITLY STATE THAT THE EARTH GOES AROUND THE SUN. Neither does it explicitly state that the Earth is round, unless you consider the meaning of the word "dahaha" to be "egg-shaped". It does not explicitly state any of this.
And it shouldn't. It is not a science book. It is religious scripture. It neither supports the geocentric theory or denies it. The Arabs believed in the geocentric theory at the time of revelation. The Quran didn't aim to change their views on science, because if Muhammad started saying the Earth was round and went around the sun, the Arabs would have called him a big liar. The Quran provided a neutral position on this issue, and there is wisdom behind this.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2SpC3qvKKLs/Vo0TE-0tmrI/AAAAAAAAAgw/v9eZUtGKbEM/s1600/stratosphere_caucas_01_big.jpg)افلا ينظرون ... الى الارض كيف سطحت
Do they not then look ... at the earth how was it flattened/leveled ?
The root سطح denoting flatness/levelnes is known in Arabic and well attested in the šemitic tree, like e.g., šṭḥ (ܫܛܥ) in Aramaic — adj. šṭīḥ (ܫܛܝܼܚܐ) means: flat — also, cf. šṭīḥūṯā (ܫܛܝܚܘܬܐ) = flatness, and šṭīḥāʔīṯ (ܫܛܝܼܚܿܐܝܬ) = in a flat way/form; ...
Natheless, the qurānic vb. suṭiḥat (سطحت) in 88:20 is oftentimes misconstructed by traditionalists as "spread" ! They try to hide earth's flatness/levelness (in the Qurān) from the foreign reader. This, i suspect is done either intentionally or subconsciously (out of bias, as most Adamites adhere to heliocentrism nowadays).
(http://airpano.ru/files/Stratosphere-Caucasus/images/image1.jpg)Earth's flatness/levelness is an OBSERVABLE living FACT backed up by ground-based experiments (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm) and high-altitude o (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tvhFbvY_99o)bservational evidence. Hence, the quranic question: Do they not then LOOK ?! (افلا ينظرون)
(http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/horizons-flatearth.jpg)
Earth started accreting concurrently with the sun and our neighbouring planets 4.57 bln years ago. However during the accretion process the radius of Earth was not spontaneously 6400 km; but rather started a few kilometers long and progressively increased.
Science is only trying to find out " the how the stars,planets...etc were formed".One can take it or leave it.
Earth's flatness/levelness is an OBSERVABLE living FACT backed up by ground-based experiments (http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za05.htm) and high-altitude o (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tvhFbvY_99o)bservational evidence. Hence, the quranic question: Do they not then LOOK ?!
If the Earth is flat then why is it that when I phone someone in the evening in India it's dark over there but still light in the UK?
If the Earth is flat then why is it that when I phone someone in the evening in India it's dark over there but still light in the UK?
The sun luminary is small in relation to the vast earth !
It acts like a lamp (spotlight) that shines downward, locally illuminating as it moves in circles around its axis, coursing on the ecliptic above the earth. When it is over your head, it's day. When it's not, it's night !
Very simple.
If it locally illuminates like a lamp then how come it illuminates the moon as well? How do you explain half moons, crescents, and red moons?
“They want you to believe that the Moon's rotation is perfectly synchronized with its orbit so that's why we only ever see one side of the Moon, rather than conclude the obvious - that the Moon is simply NOT rotating. Moreover, they had to slow down the Moon's speed by 58,870 mph AND reverse its direction to West-East to successfully sell their phony heliocentricity system to a gullible public. I don't think there is one person in many, many thousands - regardless of education - who knows that the Copernican Model had to turn the Moon's observable direction around and give it a new speed to accommodate the phases and eclipses.” -Marshall Hall
The moon is completely self-luminescent, glowing with it's own unique light.