Hello Joseph. I really appreciated our conversation a month back where we discussed the topic of hurs in the Quran. Now I have a question about the "kawaiba" mentioned in verse 78:33 which you note are female. My translation renders then as "youthful maidens with swelling breasts", something that really disturbs me. Is this accurate? If not, who are these entities? I cant find them in any other verse. What is there purpose in the afterlife? And likewise, who are the young men of verse 76:19.
Please answer as soon as possible
Regards
wanderer
Shalom / peace,
Are you really 14 years old as you say you are???????...
.
I feel like it was a mistake talking about my age on that thread. I feel that my age shouldn't matter, my beliefs, and opinions, and positions should. The quote I listed below is not in my words, but rather, the words of the Quran translation I am currently reading (Sahih International). Please take my inquiries as seriously as you would take the inquiries of any other person here.
Regards
wanderer
So... does anyone have an answer for me?
Shalom / peace.
Age can matter for a number of reasons. Personally i don't think you are 14...but anyway...please stop demanding responses......i would suggest ask your qs and leave it to that.
However, i do note your q tackled in the article below.
http://quransmessage.com/articles/sexy%20female%20virgins%20for%20men%20in%20heaven%20FM3.htm
Hello Duster
Please stop being rude to me. The attack on my stated age (essentially calling me a liar) was totally uncalled for. Also, I am not "demanding answers", I simply would like people to take my inquiries seriously, as they would if it was from anybody else. The question I asked was based off what I read in that article, so the article did not help me.
Regards
wanderer
Wanderer - who are you telling others not to be rude when all you pretty much are doing is being rude and impatient with others.....???? Get off your high horse....you want an argument, I'll give you one. ...i think you are both rude and impatient.....my suggestion is chill and read the forum rules about badgering others.
Also the article doesn't provide that translation. It addresses the word Kuwaib and the young men so don't say that your q is based off it........when the article addresses it.....I personally find your qs contentious....unnecessarily!
Duster-
I am really sorry for whatever I have done to upset you... your hostility is unprecedented... I have no idea of why you are so mad... please explain it to me so that we can work things out together.
Regards
wanderer
I don't want an argument, I just want an answer to my question by the way... it seems as if Duster is a upset at me right now, hopefully we can work things out, but in the meantime, does anyone have an answer for me?
Regards
wanderer
I gave you an answer. Read the article which explains it and stop being contentious !!! In my view.....So many of your posts are so dismissive of others. That's why I'm finding your posts irritating and almost trolling!!!!
Ive already told you Duster, my question arose AFTER I read the article and I just would like further clarification on the inquiries listed above. Can you please explain what I did specifically to offend you?? Ive answered all your question patiently, even when you accused me of being an arrogant troll and a liar. What did I do?
Regards
wanderer
This is why i think you didn't read the article properly and where i think you keep trolling and wasting time.....》》》
You say. ...
Quote"Now I have a question about the "kawaiba" mentioned in verse 78:33 which you note are female. My translation renders then as "youthful maidens with swelling breasts", something that really disturbs me. Is this accurate?"
The article says .....
Quote"078.033
"And youthful women (Kawaiba) of equal age (well matched)"
Despite the popular understanding of the word 'Kawaiba' as a reference to youthful women, it should also to be noted that the root – 'K-AYN-BA' has an underlying connotation of prominence, splendour, something which is physically prominent, of nobility, glory or anything elevated. It is also a reference to a square chamber or building. What will come as a surprise to many is that the same root is used in the word 'KABAH' in the Masjid Haram, the Holy sanctuary. Hence, some commentators continue to render 'Kawaib' as 'splendid companions' or 'companions'. However, given the general usage and feminine plural noun of the word, there is support that this may be a reference to a female entity."
Now you see why i think you are trolling or being unnecessarily contentious???...》》
That was not my only question. My question was how can female entities exist in Heaven if earthly gender attributes no longer apply and what is their purpose there.
But thank you for answering one of my questions.
Regards
wanderer
I did read the article carefully by the way--many times. That is where my question originated. Can you please explain why you are so angry at me?
Peace brother. For what do you think that there wouldn't be (men, and women) in the Hereafter?
That is what Joseph stated in his article.
So does anyone have a response to my other inquiries?
Quote from: wanderer on August 08, 2016, 02:11:08 PM
So does anyone have a response to my other inquiries?
Badgering others for a response again are we Wanderer??????..
Read the forum policy!!!!
Quote(d) Please avoid attempting to badger any members into responding especially if they have concluded parting with their perspectives on a matter.
(e) Any form of 'trolling' will be curtailed and the repeated offender banned.
Stop badgering others for a response!!!!!.....》》》
Salam wanderer
why does translating 'kawaiba' as a female entity bother u? How does it bother u? U just said it does but what about this upsets u exactly? If u could elaborate maybe I could give u an answer u might find acceptable.
The point made in the article was that we as in humans, both males and females will be created a new creation. We are not informed in the Quran whether we will have physiological gender representation i.e a male or female body in afterlife. It is said we will have companions.
The companions may not be human, there is an allusion to the fact that the companions of the right hand might not have been humans or were sent to Earth and tested. But we will be able to enjoy the company of humans who were righteous on Earth. But we, humans, won't remain humans in afterlife, we will be a new creation.
Not a lot is said about life in the hereafter because it does not serve much purpose or have much effect on the lives we lead on earth. Allah just uses similitudes to inform us that we will have food and companionship in hereafter. We r not informed about the nature of companionship between dwellers of heaven in detail. We simply do not know what purpose heavenly companions will have in afterlife.
Now, I am not sure whether u r familiar with the concept of intersex/hermaphrodite human beings. They are humans who are not physically a full human male or a full human female. Not much is said about them in the Quran. But they represent the diversity in Allah's creation on Earth. Who is to say we will have two, three genders in afterlife? Or maybe no gender at all? The answer again is we are not informed about these things
The article also mentions that the sun in Arabic, 'shams' is a masculine word and 'qamar' the moon, is feminine. But that does not mean the sun is male and moon is female! Every language has its own rules, and unfortunately the arabic language does not have gender neutral words! Allah talks about Himself in the Quran as a HE, but we are informed, Allah does not have a gender. There are many places in the Quran where we are given examples of living and non-living things and either feminine or masculine words are used to talk about them, but they might not have genders in reality.
So, eventhough the verses u mentioned make use of feminine and masculine words to describe heavenly companions, the companions may not really be male or female in nature. And even if they do have genders, what purpose the genders will serve in afterlife , we r not informed.
I would also like to request u to be patient, because most of us have other obligations but we take out some time from our real lives whenever we can to help each other out. Sometimes, it is going to take a while to get an answer from us because maybe we are researching them for you, or maybe we do not want to mislead u with a quick answer which might be not well researched. None of us claim to have all the answers, sometimes we wait patiently for Br. Joseph's input, and mostly we do not post in those threads, we wait for him or someone who has knowledge to answer at their convenience, the person who is answering our queries is actually doing us a favor, teaching us, and we never rush our teachers in real life now do we?
Thank you for your detailed response Nura. I am very sorry if I appeared to be pressuring people for answers, for that was not my intention! I am merely an eager researcher, looking for answers. I agree that there will be no genders in Heaven, its just thatin his article, Joseph appears to contradict this, saying that there will be male and female entities in heaven (i.e, the kawaiba), which confused me. Hopefully, he will see this thread soon and explain this to all of us.
Regards,
wanderer
Salam wanderer,
Br. Joseph actually said in the article that the words may have masculine or feminine annotations, but those words are best translated as 'splendid companions'. There is a notes section at the end of the article and he clarified it there. He actually said that most translators translate kawaiba as a female entity, and they ' might not be wrong' . The point is the companions may have genders or genderless , nobody knows for sure! Just because a feminine or masculine word is used, it does not mean that the subject is a male or female in nature
" despite the popular understanding of the word 'Kawaiba' as a reference to youthful women, it should also to be noted that the root – 'K-AYN-BA' has an underlying connotation of prominence, splendour, something which is physically prominent, of nobility, glory or anything elevated. It is also a reference to a square chamber or building. What will come as a surprise to many is that the same root is used in the word 'KABAH' in the Masjid Haram, the Holy sanctuary. Hence, some commentators continue to render 'Kawaib' as 'splendid companions' or 'companions'. However, given the general usage and feminine plural noun of the word, there is support that this may be a reference to a female entity."
I just checked, and in the article he says that he believes the term 'kawaiba', is most likely a reference to a "female entity"
He says most likely, which means it is not a sure thing! Nobody knows for sure whether they will have gender or will be genderless, Br. Joseph makes this very clear. Throughout the article he cites multiple verses where he says eventhough the word is masculine or feminine, it might just mean splendid companions. All Arabic words are either feminine or masculine, even non living things are given feminine or masculine name. There is no concept of gender neutral 'it' in Arabic.
Yes, I know, but the fact is he believes that it is in fact a reference to a woman, which is what I am confused about. And also young men are also specifically mentioned in a verse.
Ok let's for the sake of argument, we say the companions will be males or females ( may Allah forgive me for saying sth I don't know for sure) what is the problem? No Where in the Quran does Allah say we will have gender or we won't have gender! We are not informed about the physical characteristics of the new being we will become. Br. Joseph never said we will not have genders ( physical) in the hereafter. He said nafs, the human soul seems to not have a gender, but our nafs inhabit our earthly bodies. I have a female body but that does not mean my nafs is female! The soul and the physical body that houses it does not both have to have a gender. Gender is a physiological manifestation of ur genetic makeup. The soul may not have a gender, not that our bodies don't or won't in the future. The point is, if we make it to heaven, we will have appropriate companions, whose companionship we can enjoy! It will be a new world, with new rules! Btw the Quran says we existed prior to the life we have here, so we existed in some form, but we r not told much about the existence we had, similarly because it does not help us in our test here, and we clearly do not remember anything about our previous existence. But we did exist, the Quran talks about two deaths, there are some posts in the forum about it. Pls search for them for more info.
As far as the companions being male or female, they might be! But God will pair us with appropriate companion(s) ( we are not informed how many companions we each will have) . But if u r specifically asking whether being male or female and having an opposite gender companion will mean there will be marriage like relationship like we have on Earth, with our heavenly companions, we do not know. Whether we will procreate, or procreation will be a possibilty? We do not know! What companionship means exactly, we do not know. We r not told about the rules of interaction betwen the inhabitants of heaven/hell and those who accompany them there.
Salaam Wanderer,
I think it is not good that you and Duster are having a 'spat' on the forum. I will side with Duster regarding you regularly prompting other members to respond to your query.
I feel that Nura has answered your question in full and with clarity. She even quoted some paragraphs in the article written by Joseph. Please note again this particular sentence:
QuoteHence, some commentators continue to render 'Kawaib' as 'splendid companions' or 'companions'. However, given the general usage and feminine plural noun of the word, there is support that this may be a reference to a female entity."
It says
may so you are
incorrect when you stated earlier:
QuoteI just checked, and in the article he says that he believes the term 'kawaiba', is most likely a reference to a "female entity"
We will be made into a new creation entirely and we could be assigned genders or not or both!
Thank you for your responses. However, one thing Nura said bothered me. It was my belief that activities like procreation will most definitely not occur in the Hereafter according to the Quran, and we (men and women) will merely have 'companionship' with the other beings. However, Nura seems to be saying it is a possibility.
Also, I don't understand why everyone is ganging up on me here. I just want answers! Is that too much to ask?
P.S. Truth Seeker, I was not incorrect in what I said, joseph stated quite clearly that there is an allusion to a female entity in heaven, although he is not 100% sure.
Regards
wandereer
Ok guys, I looked back at my past comments, and I see how I could have appeared impatient. It is just that at this point in my life, I am very confused as to matters of faith, and am hungry for answers. My apologies
Regards
wanderer
Wanderer
It seems you find it difficult to understand or accept answers to ur queries which are not a simple yes/no. I did not say there will be procreation, I said it is not known whether there will be procreation or not.
And why does it bother u so much? I said there might/might not be a possibility. I did not know what exactly u wanted to know about the nature of the companionship between dewellers of heaven. What makes u so sure there won't be procreation? What Quranic evidence do u have to support ur belief? Why is it whenever we say things with Quranic evidence about concepts/queries, u find it unacceptable because they don't prove ur preconceived notions about afterlife or any other topic to be true?
What is it u find difficult to accept when the questions u ask are answered in a Quranic silence? I do not understand whether u do not understand that there are things we r not told in the Quran because Allah chose not to inform us or u do not simply want to accept a non-committal answer that of the Quran is silent on the matter!
People on this forum will not give u a yes/no answer when there is a Quranic silence on the matter. It doesn't matter how many times u badger us, we will not speculate. Br. Jospeph's article did not conclusively promote or deny the existence or non-existence of gender among heavenly companions. We do not know whether we r going to have a gender or we are not going to have a gender, same is the case with our companions, hurs, kawaiba whatever u want to call them.
Btw nobody is ganging up on u! I did not comment on the spat u were having with Duster and did not take any sides initially. But it does seem Duster was onto something, age does matter because clearly u r finding it difficult to grasp the concepts we are telling u or u r simply dissmissing them when our answers are not reinforcing ur preconcieved notions about Quran related topics.
Peace. This is for all of us:
وَاصْبِرُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَ الصَّابِرِينَ
(from 8:46)
Wanderer
By procreation I did not mean to say we will have sons or daughters, but I admit it was a poor choice of words on my part. Because of ur young age I did not want to make use of some words, but basically by marriage and procreation in heaven I was trying to paint a picture using similitude, I wanted to convey that we do not know whether the companionship will be of a sexual nature or not. Truth be told we do not know anything about the nature of the companionship u mention. Anything can happen! It is God who will decide.
I hope u will understand my reluctance to say anything concrete about this issue because we are not told so in the Quran. I cannot give u a yes/no response because it will then mean I am lying and telling u sth about God and His plans without knowledge and sorry to say I will be the only one to pay the price if I dare make such a claim.
I feel we have reached an impasse. I have nothing new to add, so maybe others might choose to carry on the discussion but right now I have nothing more to say.
Look, everyone, I'm sorry. Please stop harrasing me. I'm sorry if I did anything to upset you, I'm sorry if I badgered you, I'm just sorry. I'm just not at a very good point in my life right now. I'm constantly depressed, scared, or just plain stressed out. From the moment I get up in the morning to the moment i go to bed, I honestly feel like crying. i live in America, and as you may know, it is very scary for muslims here. Everyone hates us. Sometimes, I even feel that God hates me, for putting all this doubt and negative emotion into my mind. This site helped me feel better for a while, but now the scariness is back again and I feel like everyone on this forum is siding against me just for asking questions! Sometimes, I honestly feel like I want to kill myself, but I know that if I do that, I will be in hellfire forever. Sometimes, I feel like I am doomed towards hellfire no matter what, because of my thoughts. No one else in my (immediate) family is very religous, so they can't help me, and are confused as to why I am so sad. Its even worse because I remember, just a year back, feeling so happy. I had friends, and everybody liked me, and now I am just miserable. I know that God never burdens anyone with more than they can take but sometimes it feels like I am going to collapse under all the weight on my back. I'm so sorry for the long rant but I need to get this off my chest somehow. I don't know how long I can take this. Is their any advice from the Quran that can help me here??
Please respond
wanderer
Just read the quote brother Elijah shared. I don't want to lose my courage either, but its hard.
Wanderer
Maybe u will not believe it, but u have no idea how close to home ur situation is for me. Yes it is a very scary time to be a muslim, not only in America, but all over the world! Non- extremist muslims are being killed in muslim countries too. Pls have faith, this too shall pass.
Most of us cannot even discuss our religious beliefs openly! Even with muslims because of our approach to the Quran and Islam in general. I cannot imagine how difficult it is for u to deal with such social repercussion of the action of a segment of people who proclaim to share our religious belief.
There is a reason why most of us are anonymous. We are not safe among muslims as well. They won't acknowledge us as muslims because of how we approach Islam and our moderate and Quran-centric beliefs.
A lot of us do not share the same philosophy with our family memebers as well. It does get lonely. But do not think for a second Allah does not care for u. He does, because He has chosen to guide u. Pls do not feel like u r not welcome, u r very much encouraged to ask questions, just wait for a response for a while! U r not alone
There is a reason why we r being tested, but this is the right time to cultivate patience. Whenever we r told about adversity faced by believers for just beleiving in God, Allah asks us to be patient.
The first thing that I will suggest u is to understand that u have to begin with a clean slate, make it a point to remember that there is a possibilty u were highly misguided by traditional muslims. But now that u r here, and u learned about the Quran-centric approach, subject any prior religious ideas/beliefs that u had to this rigorous method of finding out the truth and have faith in Allah. He has guided u so far and He will continue to do so in future inshallah.
Thank you Nura. Every day is a struggle for me, just to make it through the day. I pray deeply that I can come out of my ordeals with my faith stronger than ever every day. Do you know any tips from the Quran than can help?
Now back to the main topic at hand. I feel that I have done a very poor job of articulating my questions, so let me restate them here, so that you can hopefully help me: We are told in the Quran that life in the Hereafter will be NOTHING like life on Earth, so that earthly attributes like gender will (most likely) cease to exist. So why then does the Quran reference female and male entities in Heaven?
Regards
wanderer
Wanderer
We are not told that life in hereafter will be nothing like the one we have on Earth.
We will have food and companionship and gardens and streams. Some common things we have enjoyed here on Earth as well.
But the thing is, we do not know what kind of food heaven will have some are mentioned like fruits etc. More tastier fruits? Bigger fruits? More variety? We are not told the details.
The belief that life in the hearafter will have nothing in common with life here on Earth is unfounded!
If that was so then there would'nt have been a point in saying there will be food in heaven or companionship in heaven.
All this just means, we will have food, we do not know the details about the menu :). We will have companions, we do not know what kind of a relationship we will have with them
U urself said earthly attributes like gender will most likely cease to exist, understand that they might not cease to exist! We do not know! The new being that we will become may have not only two genders like male/ female! We might have multiple genders or be genderless. The possibilities are endless when there is a Quranic silence. The answer is we do not know, God knows!
U r not understanding that even if the word kawaiba is feminine, it does not mean definitively mean kawaiba will be a female entity in the hearafter . The entity kawaiba may be a female or male or genderless. Just like Allah is genderless but refers to Himself as a HE. Why do u easliy believe that God does not have a gender? He refers to Himself as a masculine entity. I hope u understand the Arabic language is different, masculine/feminine words does not always tell us the gender of the subject! The Arabic word for moon is a feminine word , but do u believe the moon is female? Anything else? :)
Peace / Shalom sister Nura .......you are a sister blessed with great wisdom ....》》and much patience. ...
She is bright isn't she. ;D
Salam Duster and Eliiah
It is very kind of u guys to say so! Please pray for me as I will for all of u here so that we can be steadfast in faith . We can be of use to God and other believers and God does not derail us from the path to our ultimate destination, Him.
It is definitely a trying time for all of us, but I believe knowledge of the Quran and patience are the only two things we need to sail through life no matter what!
God Bless :)