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The Quran => General Discussions => : Mubashir February 10, 2014, 02:48:54 AM

: Demand for Sharia Law
: Mubashir February 10, 2014, 02:48:54 AM
Salam,

We read much these days, about demands for Sharia law in countries like Tunisia, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Syria. Presently the Taliban in Pakistan are negotiating with the government to implement Sharia without delay.

My question is what is meant by Sharia law? Is it not based on different schools of fiqh? How best could it be implemented in the modern nation state? What would be the form of government? Would there be an Amir al Momineen for each Muslim country or a Khalifa? How practical and realistic is that (One Khalifa of a certain sect may not be acceptable to people of other sects). How would the state machinery function? How about the rights of women? Would they be allowed to work? How will the state deal with it's non Muslim minorities? Would they be required to pay jizya? Some define jizya as war reparations!
Would the state force people to pray? Will polygamy be allowed? How about the minimum age of marriage for girls? What would be the dress code for men and women? How would Shias fare in a Sunni state and vice versa given the nature of their bitter disagreements? What about their respective interpretation of Islamic law?

Those who want Sharia, point to Islamic punishments, the need to establish an interest free society, social welfare projects, the rights of the poor for sustenance and justice and say that the Quran clearly states that those who do not rule/judge according to the Quran are deviants.

Kindly comment. Thanks.
: Re: Demand for Sharia Law
: AbbsRay February 10, 2014, 03:27:57 AM
Salaam Mubashir,

I think it is a suicide to implement Sharia Law in ANY country.

Look at 90% of Muslims and their beliefs. They need to understand the Quran to the letter before EVER thinking about Sharia Law. Toss their Hadith and Sunnah books, and understand Islam according to the Quran, than, and maybe than it is a good idea. Both you and I know that will never happen that Muslims in sects can toss the Hadith.

For argument sake let's say this happen, not a chance on this earth unless you are to believe another prophet is coming; you still have people who only follow the Quran that distort the words of Allah.

I think the whole followers of Islam needs to be educated to the entire followers, otherwise there certainly will only allow Muslim extremist and delusional people control others life. I have NO IDEA how anyone can live under such deluded and absurd laws in Saudi Arabia. Other countries that are not mostly Muslim, have the protection from the Government and one chooses to follow Sharia or not.
: Re: Demand for Sharia Law
: Joseph Islam February 10, 2014, 07:51:45 PM
Wa alaikum assalam brother Mubashir,

Please see my humble views on a related question from a thread that was shared over 2 years ago. It also resonates some of the sentiments shared by our respected sister, Abbsrayray.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=86

I hope it helps in some small way, God willing.

Joseph
: Re: Demand for Sharia Law
: Zack February 11, 2014, 01:38:01 AM
Thank you Br Joseph,

Related to this, I am not sure your view of the legitimacy of the "Constitution of Medina"? I know people will respond and say it is not in the Quran, but that is not my point. The first constitution for an "Islamic state" reads as a Human Rights document, and where a region being under Islamic Govt has a totally different meaning to today.

Probably the big difference with western countries today and Medina is that God is not allowed to be spoken of in the west in a public sense.

Wasalam
Daniel
: Re: Demand for Sharia Law
: Mubashir February 11, 2014, 05:39:43 AM
Dear Daniel, just wanted to clear that at least for myself not all history is to be trashed!

If, for instance The Charter of Medina does not contains material that violates the spirit of the Quran, it could possibly be true!

: Re: Demand for Sharia Law
: Joseph Islam February 11, 2014, 11:30:03 PM
Thank you Br Joseph,

Related to this, I am not sure your view of the legitimacy of the "Constitution of Medina"? I know people will respond and say it is not in the Quran, but that is not my point. The first constitution for an "Islamic state" reads as a Human Rights document, and where a region being under Islamic Govt has a totally different meaning to today.

Probably the big difference with western countries today and Medina is that God is not allowed to be spoken of in the west in a public sense.

Wasalam
Daniel

As-salam alaykum brother Daniel,

It is a good question in my humble view.

The question of legitimacy will be somewhat bound with the question of authenticity and authority.

The question of authenticity of the document will always be open to debate as we don't have the original source and we only learn of the constitution and its contents through the works of later compilers and historians such as Ibn Ishaq. The latter historian’s general works and reliability have been discussed in the article [1] below.

However, even if considered and argued as authentic (which may well be the case), then it is simply the prophet’s implementation of the Quran's guiding narratives to his particular circumstances.

As I am sure you will appreciate, a 9th century narrative of a historian or compiler even if deemed to be wholly in line with the Quran, would not provide conclusive proof that it was actually said and implemented by the Prophet in his day (7th century) simply based on oral narrations [2]

However, considerations such as the security of members of a society, human rights and freedoms etc., are all part of the Quran's fundamental guidance and as such, any Quran-centric society / state can potentially derive such a constitution without needing to have such perspectives validated / legitimised through another historical source.

Once one shifts their emphasis to the realms of legitimising a secondary source, even a document, then from the same secondary historical sources, people will present counter arguments to support their own possibly more extreme, aggressive theological perspectives.

However, for me personally with academic interest, the charter is a remarkable document for study and scrutiny.

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph


REFERENCES

[1] IBN ISHAQ'S SIRA OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh)
http://quransmessage.com/articles/ibn%20ishaq%20FM3.htm
[2] Prophet Muhammad's Letter to the Christian Monks
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=317


: Re: Demand for Sharia Law
: Mubashir February 12, 2014, 04:07:45 PM
Sharing a recent article in the news in Pakistan:

Subject: Here's a brief scenario of implementing Shariah Law in Pakistan

Lt.Col. Moin Rauf of the Pakistan Army writes brilliantly about issues pertaining to Pakistan. I wish we had politicians like him. These are two articles that he sent to me. Please read both to realise what some of the brainless people are trying to do to that nation. If they do implement what they are trying to do, Syria will look like a picnic compared to what will happen in Pakistan.

Here's a brief scenario aof implementing Shariah Law in Pakistan

Since the Taliban are pushing for Shariah Law and our Prime Minister is thinking over their demands, here's a short summary of the Shariah Law in Pakistan and some of it's Implications

1) There are 72 Official Muslim Sects in Pakistan and one Forced Non-Muslim (Ahmadiyyas). The Question is among these 73 sects which interpretation of Shariah law would be imposed?

2) According to mainstream Islamic Scholars, the Punishment of Apostacy (Conversion from Muslim to Kufar) is death. Since every other sect of Islam considers the other as Kafir, that means that every Pakistani citizen would be liable to be killed in the eyes of the other Pakistani. In Pakistan, only 7% of Muslims believe Ahmadis to be Muslims, and surprisingly only 50% believe Shias to be Muslims. Therefore, all other people think that these sects are doing Kufar, and their punishment would be death under Shariah Law.
Source: http://www.dawn.com/news/742373/who-gets-to-be-a-muslim-in-pakistan

3) Under Shariah Law followed by mainstream Muslims, the punishment for theft is the severing of the hand. In Pakistan, only 0.9% of the population pays tax, which indirectly means that 99.1% of Pakistanis are tax evaders in one way or the other, and since tax evasion is a form of theft against the government, Pakistan should get ready to chop the hands of 99.1% of the population.

Source: http://www.nation.com.pk/business/18-Feb-2013/pakistan-has-lowest-tax-to-gdp-ratio-in-world

4) According to the chief of Jamat-e-Islami and a large percentage of Muslims, the only way a raped woman can convict her murderers is by producing 4 witnesses who witnessed the crime. Thus, when Shariah would be imposed in Pakistan, unless a woman would have 4 witnesses which is probably only possible if she gets raped in a market, else she should remain quiet.

source: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10201192443283647&set=vb.280284272085434&type=3&theater

5) According to Taliban's interpretation of Shariah law, any woman who is not covered from head till toe to be given lashes for the crime of spreading vulgarity. Our request to the proponents of such kind of a Shariah Law is to kindly take a walk in Liberty Market in Lahore, Centaurus in Islamabad, and Clifton in Karachi.. With most of the women lashed and dying out of pain, and the male to female ratio probably going down, men in Pakistan would be forced to indulge in homosexuality.

6) Since the punishment of blasphemy of the Prophet (S.A.W) is death according to mainsteam Islam, and apart from 1.4 Billion Muslims, all other 5.6 Billion Humans consider the Prophet as untruthful and wrong, therefore it would be obligatory upon us to wipe out all such Non-Muslims from the face of the Earth. What greater blasphemy could there be than considering the Prophet as a liar? Therefore the Shariah compliant state of Pakistan would utilize it's arsenal of more than 130 nuclear bombs and leave only the lovers of Prophet (S.A.W) behind.
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In 1946, Maulana Azad gave an interview to Shorish Kashmiri, the famous editor of weekly CHATAAN, an influential Lahore weekly of that period. Enclosed is an English translation of it which shows the great vision and fore-sight the Maulana possessed. His prognosis is proving accurate today.

Should we have heeded such brilliant Muslim leaders at that time more closely?
KARRAR.

Abul Kalam Azad:

Muslims must realise that they are bearers of a universal message. They are not a racial or regional grouping in whose territory others cannot enter. Strictly speaking, Muslims in India are not one community; they are divided among many well-entrenched sects. You can unite them by arousing their anti-Hindu sentiment but you cannot unite them in the name of Islam. To them Islam means undiluted loyalty to their own sect. Apart from Wahhabi, Sunni and Shia there are innumerable groups who owe allegiance to different saints and divines. Small issues like raising hands during the prayer and saying Amen loudly have created disputes that defy solution. The Ulema have used the instrument of takfeer [fatwas declaring someone as infidel] liberally. Earlier, they used to take Islam to the disbelievers; now they take away Islam from the believers. Islamic history is full of instances of how good and pious Muslims were branded kafirs. Prophets alone had the capability to cope with these mindboggling situations. Even they had to pass through times of afflictions and trials. The fact is that when reason and intelligence are abandoned and attitudes become fossilised then the job of the reformer becomes very difficult.
But today the situation is worse than ever. Muslims have become firm in their communalism; they prefer politics to religion and follow their worldly ambitions as commands of religion. History bears testimony to the fact that in every age we ridiculed those who pursued the good with consistency, snuffed out the brilliant examples of sacrifice and tore the flags of selfless service. Who are we, the ordinary mortals; even high ranking Prophets were not spared by these custodians of traditions and customs. -- Maulana Abul Kalam Azad in an interview to journalist Shorish Kashmiri for a Lahore based Urdu magazine, Chattan, in April 1946.

This invaluable document has been resurrected and translated by India's ex union minister Arif Mohammad Khan for a Magazine.