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The Quran => Islamic Duties => : Student November 05, 2016, 11:40:20 PM

: Juma vs Zuhr
: Student November 05, 2016, 11:40:20 PM
Salaam,

Does anyone know any discussion or good Quran based resource on the differences between Juma and Zuhr prayer. Traditional Islam impose lot of conditions depending on School's jurisprudence for Salat Juma to become Wajib. Any differences we glean from Quran between these two prayers when only one is possible on Friday?

: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Wakas December 06, 2016, 08:40:39 PM
peace,

With regard to juma, please see the only verse to relate this to salat: 62:9

With regard to zuhr, there is no verse that occurs relating this to salat. Unless you're referring to this word in 24:58
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Zhr#(24:58:23)


In my view, the overwhelming evidence in Quran points to a minimum of two daily salat for the mumineen, in the morning/fajr and evening/isha, with an optional night vigil, none for zuhr. 
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Duster December 06, 2016, 11:37:31 PM
In my view, the overwhelming evidence in Quran points to a minimum of two daily salat for the mumineen, in the morning/fajr and evening/isha, with an optional night vigil, none for zuhr.

Shalom / peace.....In my view....i don't think there is overwhelming evidence as has been deeply debated below.....

Response to Wakas's attempted critique of the 5-prayers a day belief

http://quransmessage.com/critiques/Response%20to%20Wakas.htm

Comments on Five Prayers

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=477.0

: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Wakas December 10, 2016, 06:53:35 PM


Shalom / peace.....In my view....i don't think there is overwhelming evidence as has been deeply debated below.....

I disagree. If you wish to discuss it further please PM me as I'm not allowed to respond to it publicly on this forum
Ref: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1756.msg8400#msg8400
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Anjum December 23, 2016, 09:42:53 AM
Salam Brother Wakas,

According to you..if Zuhr prayer is not mentioned in Quran...then what is middle prayer?...and when should we do our friday prayer?...should we do our friday prayer during morning or isha?...

Kindly clear it plz...

Regards,
Anjum
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Wakas December 25, 2016, 10:42:30 PM
peace brother Anjum,

In my view, the so-called "middle prayer" does not exist as per Quran, see point 11:
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/problems-5-salat-Quran.html

This is my current understanding of juma:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12309.msg96387#msg96387
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Anjum December 30, 2016, 05:18:08 PM
Salam brother wakas,

Then what does that mean...I have come across such a verse...do not miss middle prayer something like that I guess... Then...what would that mean?...
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Wakas December 31, 2016, 06:18:35 PM
Did you read the previous link I gave you? It's explained therein.
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Student January 01, 2017, 08:55:51 AM
Salaam,

Thanks Br. Wakas for your kind attention on my query. Sorry my intention or desire was not to initiate another debate but if I were to reframe my query I would rather have asked:

Those who believe 5 prayers from Quran perspective, including Zuhr (regardless of Wusta) for them from their understanding of the two prayers, what are the differences between the two, viz., Zuhr and Jum'a?

Hope I didn't offend you or anyone who hold 2, or 3 Salahs only and not 5 from the Quran itself.


Regards :)
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Mohammed October 07, 2017, 11:01:31 AM
peace,

With regard to juma, please see the only verse to relate this to salat: 62:9

With regard to zuhr, there is no verse that occurs relating this to salat. Unless you're referring to this word in 24:58
http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Zhr#(24:58:23)


In my view, the overwhelming evidence in Quran points to a minimum of two daily salat for the mumineen, in the morning/fajr and evening/isha, with an optional night vigil, none for zuhr.

Assalaamu 'alaikum All

I don't wish to initiate any debate here, but today I saw this post so I just want to share what I know regarding the post.

Brother Wakas,
How we can avoid the midday Prayer when considering the verses 62:9-10, 17:12, 10:67

[Al Qur'an 62:9] "You, you those who believed, if (it) was called for/to the Prayer from the Friday's/gathering's day/time, so hasten/move quickly to God's reminder, and leave the selling/trading, that (is) best for you, if you were knowing.
[Al Qur'an 62:10] "So if the Prayer were accomplished/ended, so spread/spread out in the Earth/land, and ask/wish/desire from God's grace/favour/bounty, and remember God much, maybe/perhaps you succeed/win."

These verses establishes that the Friday's/gathering's day prayer is one that all Believers must go to regardless of whether they may lose profit or not. And it is also clear that the time before and after this Prayer is business/ trading time.

And the Qur'an indicates that trading time is day time, and night is for rest.

[Al Qur'an 17:12] "And We made/put the night and the daytime (as) two signs/evidences, so We wiped out/erased/eliminated the night's sign/evidence, and We made/put the daytime's sign/evidence manifest/clearly visible, to wish/desire grace/favour/bounty from your Lord, and to know the years' number, and the counting/calculating, and every thing We detailed/explained it detailing/explaining"
[Al Qur'an 10:67] "He is who made/created for you the night to be tranquil/quiet in it, and the daytime to see, that in that (are) evidences/signs to a nation hearing/listening."

So how can you correlate the Prayer in 62:9-10 with Fajr or 'Isha Prayer ?
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Wakas October 11, 2017, 09:41:20 PM
peace.
brother mohammed,

1)
What is your understanding of 24:58, specifically ZHR, i.e. is it noon? If so, then noon is a time of rest/privacy/undress (e.g. due to the heat) not a time for congregational gatherings, or trading.

2)
Are you suggesting trading/business must only be done during daytime according to Quran? Can you name any country in the world that follows such a setup?

3) research:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12309.msg96387#msg96387



: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Mohammed January 27, 2018, 04:34:35 AM
Salaam brother Wakas,

I agree with the interpretation that the timed Swalah of the believers is twice daily. I did not find a clear proof from the Qur'an for 'the midday prayer'.

Thank you.
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Mohammed March 16, 2019, 10:14:47 AM
2)
Are you suggesting trading/business must only be done during daytime according to Quran? Can you name any country in the world that follows such a setup?

peace Wakas,
Sorry for the late reply!

From the Qur’anic point of view, day time is for trading/ business/ work and night is for rest/ reading Qur’an/ remembering God.

There are many verses which refers night as S-K-N
"Splitter (of) the morning/ day break and He made the night tranquillity/ to reside in..."[6:96]

And in 62:9-10,
Before swalat (‘Isha) Qur’an uses the term ‘baigh’ (business /selling) but not after swalat (it is night).

And in 24:58,
Mentions after swalatul ‘Isha and before swalatul Fajr as private times...which is also an indication that night is not for trading/work, for the believers.
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: w3bcrowf3r March 16, 2019, 10:29:11 PM
Salaam brother Wakas,

I agree with the interpretation that the timed Swalah of the believers is twice daily. I did not find a clear proof from the Qur'an for 'the midday prayer'.

Thank you.

My same conclusion. The verse about al wusta is talking about family affairs etc. I think it means to follow the balanced laws that are being given to us about the family affairs.

Only when we wash ourself from preconceived doctrines is when we can read the Quran. Else we are reading something else.

The timings of salaat al fadjr and salaat al isha are giving in detail. When God and the Angels sends prayers to the Messenger, we aren't make those a daily prayer as well right. Or when the believers send prayers to the Messenger, we aren't going to make them daily prayers as well right.
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Mohammed March 17, 2019, 10:35:32 AM
I think it means to follow the balanced laws that are being given to us about the family affairs.

peace w3bcrowf3r,

More appropriately, social affairs/ responsibilities I think.
For example, S-L-W in 9:84 may denotes things which one has to do for the diseased in the society.
See occurrence of the root W-S-T in [2:143] here it used to denote the quality of a community - ummatan wasathan (modest community/balanced nation).
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: w3bcrowf3r March 17, 2019, 12:33:19 PM
I think it means to follow the balanced laws that are being given to us about the family affairs.

peace w3bcrowf3r,

More appropriately, social affairs/ responsibilities I think.
For example, S-L-W in 9:84 may denotes things which one has to do for the diseased in the society.
See occurrence of the root W-S-T in [2:143] here it used to denote the quality of a community - ummatan wasathan (modest community/balanced nation).

I think i am in the right direction. My Arabic can still be compared to someone in kindergarden.

You seem to know Arabic?

What are your thoughts about asafwa wal marwah?
: Re: Juma vs Zuhr
: Mohammed March 22, 2019, 08:49:18 AM

peace w3bcrowf3r,

More appropriately, social affairs/ responsibilities I think.
For example, S-L-W in 9:84 may denotes things which one has to do for the diseased in the society.
See occurrence of the root W-S-T in [2:143] here it used to denote the quality of a community - ummatan wasathan (modest community/balanced nation).

It is a command to keep up the just/balanced/modest approach in affairs, but not limited to family affairs.