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The Quran => General Discussions => Topic started by: Amira on November 24, 2016, 06:34:18 AM

Title: 4:15-4:16
Post by: Amira on November 24, 2016, 06:34:18 AM

Hi everyone :)

I was reading 4:15-16 earlier, and although I've noticed their discrepancy before, I didn't pay much attention to it. However, does anyone know why the punishment for lewdness for a woman is indefinite confinement with no guarantee of release following repentance? 4:16 dictates forgiveness if the 2 men involved repent. Is it because 4:15 may be referring to prostitution, while 4:16 is more similar to one-off adultery?

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: Amira on November 24, 2016, 06:36:13 AM

In addition, 4:15 states that four reliable witnesses must be obtained before carrying out punishment. 4:16 has no such requirement, but seems to show more laxity with regard to the prescribed penalty.

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: wanderer on November 24, 2016, 09:17:13 AM

TOTALLY DIFFERENT PUNISHMENTS FOR TOTALLY DIFFERENT CRIMES
4:15- Major lewdness (fahisha) committed by 3+ women
4:16- Male Homosexuality (2 men)
Regards
wanderer

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: wanderer on November 24, 2016, 09:31:48 AM

And yes, you are right, 4:15 seems to primarily indicate prostitution, though this is not the only form of major fahisha.
See the end notes for Brother Joseph's article on Homosexuality.
The phrase 'until God ordains for them another way', in 4:15, in my opinion, constitutes an acceptance of possible repentance on part of the women. (Also see end of Joseph's article on abrogation)
Also, just because the punishment in 4:16 is undefined, this does not signify laxity. Undefined means just that--undefined.
Regards
wanderer

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: Amira on November 24, 2016, 09:49:22 AM

Thank you for your answers. Why is it 3+ women in 4:15? Some Arabic grammatical rule? The verse says "any of your women".

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: wanderer on November 24, 2016, 09:52:15 AM

Joseph's endnotes on his Homosexuality article talks it about it. He also has a Q&A that goes into more depth, but I can't find it right now.
You can read it here: http://quransmessage.com/articles/homosexuality%20FM3.htm
Regards
wanderer

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: Hamzeh on November 24, 2016, 01:06:48 PM

Asalamu Alykum

Good answer brother Wanderer

The other article that Wanderer might be referring to is below. Insha'Allah it will explain your inquiries
I would also see the related article about rape, as one notes how punishment may increase for acts from prostitution to rape


http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=319.0

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: wanderer on November 24, 2016, 01:12:36 PM

Thanks for the link Hamzeh.
Rape:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=314.0
Regards
wanderer

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: Amira on November 25, 2016, 04:37:41 AM

This makes more sense now. Thank you all for your input :)

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: Amira on November 27, 2016, 01:29:42 AM

Hi, I'm still confused as to why 4:16 does not stipulate a witness requirement. Wouldn't it be more fair to have a 4 witness requirement in all such cases?

Title: Re: 4:15-4:16
Post by: wanderer on November 27, 2016, 01:45:04 AM

4:16 says if two men are guilty, punish them both. They have already been proven guilty, which means that witnesses are implied.
Regards
wanderer