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The Quran => Islamic Duties => : w3bcrowf3r January 06, 2019, 09:45:06 PM

: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 06, 2019, 09:45:06 PM
So i did a word for word study on Salaat/Prayer and found out: Salaat in Arabic means to follow something closely. The Arabic meaning of the word fits the context of the Quran if you pay attention!

Salaat/Prayer is a Book that is scheduled, 3 times per day, in the morning, afternoon and evening. After the Salaat u can bow and kneel. Before i pray i was myself both physically and spiritually, by washing my hands, face and feet.
(when i bow i make supplication, and when i kneel on my chin, note kneeling on the chin is Quranic, it's a form of being humble since the chin stands for pride, so when i kneel i praise God)

Below are all my study notes of the verses which i found containing the word salaat/prayer:

2:3 Hold the communion, believe in unseen, spend from the provisions

2:43 Hold the communion, contribute towards purification, kneel with the kneeling

2:45 Seek help through communion and patience

2:48 Hold the communion, contribute towards purification

2:83 Hold the contact prayer, serve God, do good to parents, regard the relatives, the orphans, the needy and say kind things to the people, and contribute towards purification

2:110 Hold the communion, contribute towards purification

2:125 Take Abraham as an example for the communion

2:153 Seek help through communion and patience

2:157 There will be communions from God to those who were afflicted with adversity and who said that they are to God and to Him they return

2:177 Carry the communion, believe in God and the last day, and the angels and the Book, and the prophets, and give money out of love to relatives, orphans, the needy, and the wayfarer and those who ask, and to free the slaves, and contribute towards purification, and keep them if you make pledges, and the patience in adversity and hardship and when in despair

2:238 Maintain the communion, and the middle communion, and stand dutiful to God

2:277 Hold the communion, believe and do good works, contribute towards purification

4:43 Do not come near the communion while intoxicated, until you know what you are saying, nor if you had an intercourse, unles a wayfarer, until you wash.

4:77 Hold the communion

4:101 You can shorten the communion if you go through the land and fear that the rejecters will try you

4:102 Hold the communion, after it prostrate,

4:103 If done with communion, remember God while standing, sitting or on the sides, then if secure hold the communion. The communion is a Book scheduled.

4:142 the hypocrites stand lazily to make the contact prayer, and only to show the people, and they do not remember God except very little, they seek to deceive God

4:162 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, believe in God and the last day, be well founded in knowledge, believe in the Quran and what was sent down before

5:6 hold the contact prayer, wash your faces and your hands up to the elbows, wipe your heads and feets to the ankles. If had intercourse, you shall purify. And if ill, or traveling, or having excreted feces, or had sexual contact with women, and cannot find water, then you shall select from the clean soil and wipe your faces and hands with it.

5:12 Hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, believe in the Messengers, support them, lend God a loan of righteousness

5:55 Hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, and kneel

5:58 if you call to the contact prayer, they take it as mockery and play

5:91 the devil wants to repel you away from remembering God and from the contact prayer

5:106 detain those who you doubt regarding the will that needs to be made after someones death after the contact prayer

6:72 Hold the contact prayer, and be aware

6:92 maintain the contact prayer, believe in the herafter, the Quran is a Book that is blessed and authenticating what is between his hands, and to warn the capital of the towns and those around it

6:162 the contact prayer, rites, life, death, are to God

7:170 Hold the contact prayer, hold fast to the Book

8:3 hold the contact prayer, spend from the provisions

8:35 their contact prayer at the Sanctuary was nothing but noise and aversion

9:5 leave the polytheists after the sacred months alone if they hold the contact prayer, and contribute towards purification

9:11 if they repent, and hold the contact prayer, and contribute towards purification, then they are your brothers in the system

9:18 the temples of God are maintained by the believers in God and the last day, and those who uphold the contact prayer and contribute towards purification, and who are only concerned by God

9:54 the wicked people prevented what they would spend to be accepted from them, except that they would reject God and His Messenger, and they did not attend the contact prayer except lazily, and they did not spend except unwillingly

9:71 the believing males and believing females hold the contact prayer, are allies to one another, they order good and prohibit vice, contribute towards purification and they obey God and His Messenger

9:84 do no make the contact prayer for any of them who died, nor stand at their grave, if they rejected God and His Messenger and died while they were wicked

9:99 from the Nomads are those who believe in God and the last day and who look upon what they spend to make them come closer to God and the Messenger

10:87 To Moses and his brother was inspired, that they should seek out homes for the people in Egypt, and to leave their homes to be a focal point and hold the contact prayer and to give good news to the believers

11:87 the people of Shuayb said: "Does your contact prayer order you that we should leave what our fathers served, or that we do not do with our money as we please"

11:114 Hold the contact prayer at the two parts of the day and the near part of the night, the good deeds take away the bad, this is a reminder to those who remember

13:22 hold the contact prayer, be patient seeking the face of the Lord, spend from what He bestowed upon you secretly and openly, counter evil with good

14:31 hold the contact prayer, spend from the provisions

14:37 hold the contact prayer

14:40 hold the contact prayer, pray to God for the acceptance of the supplications

17:78 hold the contact prayer from the setting of the sun, to the murkiness of the night, and the Quran at dawn is witnessed

17:110 do not be too loud in making the contact prayer, nor too quit, but seek a path in between

19:31 hold the contact prayer, and purification

19:55 instruct the family to the contact prayer, and towards betterment

19:59 about the generations who lost their contact prayer and followed desires

20:14 hold the contact prayer, for the remembrance of God, and serve Him alone

20:132 instruct the family to the contact prayer, and be patient for it

21:73 hold the contact prayer and contribute towards purification and serve God

22:35 hold the contact prayer, reverence your heart when God is mentioned, be patient to what befalls you, and spend from the provisions

22:40 many of the places of prayer would have been destroyed if God did not defend the people against themselves

22:41 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, and prohibit vice

22:78 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, hold tight to God, strive in the cause of God

23:2 be humble when making the contact prayer

23:9 maintain the contact prayers

24:37 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, fear the day when the hearts and sight will be overturned, be not distracted by trade or sale from the remembrance of God

24:56 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, obey the messenger

24:58 the dawn contact prayer, the afternoon contact prayer, evening prayer

27:3 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, be certain regard the hereafter

29:45 hold the contact prayer, recite what is inspired from the Book

30:31 hold the contact prayer, turn to God, be aware of God, do not be of the polytheists

31:4 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, be certain regard the hereafter

31:17 hold the contact prayer, advocate righteousness and prohibit vice, and be patient to what befalls you, the most honorable traits

33:33 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, obey God and His Messenger, be content in the homes

35:18 you will only be able to warn those who hold the contact prayer, and are concerned towards their Lord, and contribute for yourself

35:29 hold the contact prayer, recite the Book of God, spend secretly and openly from the provisions of God, seek a trade that never loses

42:38 hold the contact prayer, respond to the Lord, conduct the affairs by mutual consultation, and provide from the provisions

58:13 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, obey God and His Messenger

62:9 if the contact prayer is called at the day of gathering, then you shall hasten towards the remembrance of God and cease selling

62:10 if the contact prayer is completed after on the day of gathering, disperse through the land to seek the provisions of God, and remember God frequently

70:22 those who make the contact prayer, will be honored in gardens

70:23 observe always the contact prayer

70:34 maintain the contact prayer

73:20 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, lend God a loan of righteousness, seek the forgiveness of God, read what is made easy of the Quran, a little less than two thirds of the night, and half of it, He knows that you will be not able to keep-up, so He pardons you, so study what you can of it

74:43 those who did not pray, were brought in the scorching heat

98:5 hold the contact prayer, contribute towards purification, serve God and be loyal to His system as Monotheists

107:4 woe to those who make their contact prayer absent minded

107:5 woe to those who make their contact prayer absent minded

What do you guys think?
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Wakas January 09, 2019, 07:30:05 AM
peace,

Salaat/Prayer is a Book that is scheduled, 3 times per day, in the morning, afternoon and evening.

Can you tell us how you ascertained the alleged afternoon salat (which you take as prayer)?

and when i kneel on my chin

Do you mean you prostrate on the chin (i.e. instead of the forehead)?
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 12, 2019, 08:45:25 PM
An English translation:

24:58 O you who believe, let those among you who are maintained by your oaths, and those who have not attained puberty, request your permission regarding three times: before the dawn contact prayer, and when you put off your garments from the noon time, and after the evening contact prayer. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.

17:107 Say: "Believe in it or do not believe in it. Those who have been given the knowledge before it, when it is recited to them, they fall to their chins prostrating."
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Wakas January 13, 2019, 07:54:50 PM
Re: 24:58
From your above reply, I can only conclude you have very little evidence for your "afternoon salat".

Re: 17:107
You said "kneel on the chin" but your translation says "fall to their chins prostrating", so since you never clarified what you do I have no idea what you do. I was simply trying to clarify and I thought my question was simple.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 13, 2019, 11:47:06 PM
There are 3 prayer times in previous Scriptures as well. I can see the prayer times being mentioned in 24:58.  An the second verse is about prostrating on the chin. According to my understanding, kneeling, prostrating is the same.

Anyways, good luck with your prayers. May they be blessed and be fruitful.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Duster January 14, 2019, 11:57:10 AM
There are 3 prayer times in previous Scriptures as well. I can see the prayer times being mentioned in 24:58.

Shalom./ peace ....Are the times being mentioned to establish prayer or are they mentioned to establish 3 times of undress? Important question!

See aeticle ......-> http://quransmessage.com/articles/3%20or%205%20prayers%20FM3.htm
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 14, 2019, 04:55:05 PM
11:114 talks about two prayers in the day and one when the night approaches. And 24:58 talks about three instances as well.

The article isn't very specific. I think he doesn't know the answer.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Duster January 16, 2019, 05:18:32 AM
I think he doesn't know the answer.

He doesn't ask the question.  I asked you the question as you seem to be making use of 24:58 to make case for 3.....His position is pretty clear where he has argued 5 in another article and through many debates. .. You can look it up on this site if you wish ....
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Sardar Miyan January 17, 2019, 08:37:46 AM
It is five times prayer not three . See the article
On Salath by Joseph Islam’s article on Salaath Thanks
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 19, 2019, 05:42:53 PM
Well i disagree with you guys then. I can clearly find only 3 times in 24:58. God will inform us about how we prayed and if it was good enough etc.

We can always learn from each other when discussing other topics.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Duster January 19, 2019, 09:58:16 PM
I think you are missing the point. The reason only 3 prayers are mentioned in that verse as brother Joseph has argued is because they are REFERENCE POINTS for undress .... the focus is the undressing parts - that's why only 3 points of the day are mentioned ....

Your logic is like this .... someone says ...

1. Go to the shop to pick up some groceries, but stop at house 1 ...house 2 ....and house 3 ...on the way.
2. Conclusion - there are only 3 houses in the world!!!!

: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 20, 2019, 05:32:28 PM
Can you read Arabic? It's important to know Arabic if we want to understand context. Then show the 4th and 5th prayer time and explain it.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Duster January 21, 2019, 07:28:21 AM
I'm not going to repeat what's already been said..... please check out brother Joseph's article below ....

.http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20five%20prayers%20from%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

Also pleaae don't  kindly use the do you speak Arabic , have you gone to a madrasa , read the sciences of hadith etc etc argument.... That's an old argument and a tired one.... the article shared above provides you the evidence...
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 22, 2019, 06:53:52 AM
I never said you need to read the ahadith to understand the Quran. You are assuming things about me now which are false.

You can't deny that you need to know Arabic if you want to grasp the details of the Quran. The Message is simple, and is probably translated correctly. But not all details are being translated correctly. And i want to know the details. So that's why Arabic is important. You don't want to assume things based on translations.

You don't need to read a Book or learn it's language to know what it's Message is. It's Message is 'Love others as you love yourself'. Everyone has this already in hes DNA. It's when you start following what people say, that you can be deceived and misguided.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Duster January 22, 2019, 08:23:44 AM
Yes..... my reference is to those that make that type of argument that you need to understand Arabic , need to have gone to a madrasa .. know complex sciences of ahadith etc ... You made at least one of those arguments (Arabic one) ... so that's the type of arguments I was collectively talking about ...

Anyway ... I agree the message is important ..... like you said ..."u don't need to read a Book or learn it's language to know what it's Message is." ... that's always been my point.

I still take the stance of 5 prayers that has been made in the article the correct one ..... the most persuasive one ...

: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 23, 2019, 05:37:31 AM
I don't compare 'learning Arabic' with 'knowing the so called science of the ahadith doctrines'.

All i am saying is, if you want to know the details of the Quran correctly, then learn Arabic. Reading the Quran on your own in the original form can't be compared with reading any kind of translation.
But you don't need to know Arabic if you want to be saved. I read the Quran, the Gospel, Psalms, the Torah etc. and the Message is and should always be 'love God, love your neighbor, love others as you love yourself'. You don't need to read a Book for that. Everyone already knows that already since it's in our DNA.

Anyways, i think the Quran talks about 3 prayers a day. So do other Scriptures. So for me it's a conclusion i base on the Books. But you are referring to these theories of someone else while the article he wrote isn't even telling in which verses these 5 daily prayers are being spoken of. He is even saying that it could be 3 as well... Do your own research. Don't follow others. You will be responsible for your own actions. So you can't blame others in the end.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Duster January 23, 2019, 07:16:57 AM
I am thinking for myself... I find the arguments I shared in the article ...  convinced me ... In the end ... I also find it comforting that I can err on the side of caution as they say... I'd rather think there are 5 based on evidence ....and then to find out there are 3 .... the remaining can be then taken as extra prayers .. can't see any harm in reading extra prayers for Allah  ... .RATHER than thinking there are 3 and there on the DAY of Judgement finding out there were actually 5 prayers... to then realise that I was missing prayers ... .

Just my take ... each to their own ...
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Wakas January 23, 2019, 07:41:12 AM
peace,

11:114 talks about two prayers in the day and one when the night approaches. And 24:58 talks about three instances as well.

Before trying to understand the verse, ensure one has an accurate translation first.

11:114 states "...uphold the salat (at) two edges of the daytime and proximal/adjacent parts of/from the night..."

red = zulafan, Arabic plural, i.e. 3 or more

blue = min, partitive, i.e. parts in the night

Don't worry, you're not the first to make this error.

The article isn't very specific. I think he doesn't know the answer.

Please see from this post onwards for past discussion:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=477.msg5032#msg5032

Same goes for anyone who thinks its 3 or 5 salat daily. The 5 daily view is riddled with errors/assumptions, 3 daily less so, but neither as sound as a minimum of two daily, for the mumineen of course.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 25, 2019, 05:39:03 AM
I am thinking for myself... I find the arguments I shared in the article ...  convinced me ... In the end ... I also find it comforting that I can err on the side of caution as they say... I'd rather think there are 5 based on evidence ....and then to find out there are 3 .... the remaining can be then taken as extra prayers .. can't see any harm in reading extra prayers for Allah  ... .RATHER than thinking there are 3 and there on the DAY of Judgement finding out there were actually 5 prayers... to then realise that I was missing prayers ... .

Just my take ... each to their own ...

Don't worry. We will be missing a lot more then just prayers on the day of Judgement. God is merciful.

I think it's important to learn from the Quran instead from others. That doesn't mean that we can't learn from others. Everything is in the Quran. We should try as much as possible to figure it out ourselves first. We should absolutely avoid copy and pasting doctrines of others blindly, without even trying to do our homework and analyses of the Quran.

In the end. We will probably miss some things, or for others, they may miss a lot of things. Does it matter? What matters is your good heart. Did you try your best. Nobody can buy paradise with hes deeds. We will always rely on God's mercy in the end.

Have a good day.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r January 25, 2019, 05:48:43 AM
peace,

11:114 talks about two prayers in the day and one when the night approaches. And 24:58 talks about three instances as well.

Before trying to understand the verse, ensure one has an accurate translation first.

11:114 states "...uphold the salat (at) two edges of the daytime and proximal/adjacent parts of/from the night..."

red = zulafan, Arabic plural, i.e. 3 or more

blue = min, partitive, i.e. parts in the night

Don't worry, you're not the first to make this error.

The article isn't very specific. I think he doesn't know the answer.

Please see from this post onwards for past discussion:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=477.msg5032#msg5032

Same goes for anyone who thinks its 3 or 5 salat daily. The 5 daily view is riddled with errors/assumptions, 3 daily less so, but neither as sound as a minimum of two daily, for the mumineen of course.

I think 11:114 is talking about parts of the day and not the edges. And about the night prayer, i think there is the standard one, from sunset to darkness. And if you want to pray more in the night, you can pray longer. There are multiple verses about this.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: Wakas January 27, 2019, 05:18:49 PM

I think 11:114 is talking about parts of the day and not the edges. And about the night prayer, i think there is the standard one, from sunset to darkness. And if you want to pray more in the night, you can pray longer. There are multiple verses about this.

Previously you enquired about knowledge of Arabic. One wonders what the point of having knowledge of Arabic is if one is ultimately going to disregard the Arabic.

Each to their own.
: Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
: w3bcrowf3r February 05, 2019, 02:29:50 AM

I think 11:114 is talking about parts of the day and not the edges. And about the night prayer, i think there is the standard one, from sunset to darkness. And if you want to pray more in the night, you can pray longer. There are multiple verses about this.

Previously you enquired about knowledge of Arabic. One wonders what the point of having knowledge of Arabic is if one is ultimately going to disregard the Arabic.

Each to their own.

There were who saw Muhammad with their own eyes and knew Arabic who didn't grasp the Quran. If you want to pray 5 times, then that's between you and God, i pray 3 times. If we both believe we learned it from the Quran and nothing but the Quran, then may God accept it from us. We already know that we fall short at the moment, and that we should rely on the grace of God. Anyways, may your prayers be blessed and fruitful.