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The Quran => Islamic Duties => : w3bcrowf3r March 12, 2019, 10:24:17 PM

: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?
: w3bcrowf3r March 12, 2019, 10:24:17 PM
The calendar is a luni-solar calendar? Ramadan is in July when there is a scorching heat, and the 3 other holy months follow after Ramadan? The calendar we the Arabs follow given by Omar is wrong ( we couldn't trust him anyways)?
: Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?
: Wakas March 17, 2019, 01:01:59 PM
The Traditional Islamic calendar is almost certainly wrong. It was discussed on here recently I believe.

Also see:
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20lost%20months%20of%20hajj%20FM3.htm
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610235.0

I couldn't find a way to reconcile the problems but I imagine it is discussed somewhere in Traditional sources and/or by Traditional scholars because the problems seem so obvious.
: Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?
: w3bcrowf3r March 17, 2019, 06:20:49 PM
The Traditional Islamic calendar is almost certainly wrong. It was discussed on here recently I believe.

Also see:
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20lost%20months%20of%20hajj%20FM3.htm
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610235.0

I couldn't find a way to reconcile the problems but I imagine it is discussed somewhere in Traditional sources and/or by Traditional scholars because the problems seem so obvious.

If Ramadan is the month which is the most heated one, then it's July. We simply have to only count 3 months from it to have the four sacred months. There is no calculation or invention of a calendar needed for that. We only have to observe the sun and the hottest month.

Yeah i found out myself that the lunar calendar can't be observed alone. We need a luni-solar calendar if we want to have a good calendar. Else every month will be in a different season every x years. The month of scorching heat (Ramadan in Arabic) can't be in winter right.

The Israeli and western calendars are at least a lunar calendar and far more reliable. But they aren't perfect as well because they totally ignore the moon to count the days.
: Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?
: Mohammed May 09, 2019, 10:55:42 AM
Ramadan is in July when there is a scorching heat, and the 3 other holy months follow after Ramadan?

peace,

in my understanding, Ramadan will not occur in Al Shahr Al Haram, because

1) According to 9:3, the 4 full moons are for Hajj, and since there is already sawm in Hajj,(for those who cannot find an offering -2:196) Ramadan(sawm) cannot occur in Hajj (Qur’an does not mentions such a condition of interpose). For example 2:184&185 says special cases/situations(illness, travel) for postponing the sawm in Ramadan,but it does not mentions Hajj/sawm in Hajj as a condition/situation.

2) Summer can’t be a restricted period since 9:81 speaks about going for fighting in the heat, (there is no fighting in Al Shahr Al Haram -2:217, exception -2:194,179).

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610670.0 (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610670.0)
: Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?
: w3bcrowf3r May 12, 2019, 01:54:18 PM
Ramadan is in July when there is a scorching heat, and the 3 other holy months follow after Ramadan?

peace,

in my understanding, Ramadan will not occur in Al Shahr Al Haram, because

1) According to 9:3, the 4 full moons are for Hajj, and since there is already sawm in Hajj,(for those who cannot find an offering -2:196) Ramadan(sawm) cannot occur in Hajj (Qur’an does not mentions such a condition of interpose). For example 2:184&185 says special cases/situations(illness, travel) for postponing the sawm in Ramadan,but it does not mentions Hajj/sawm in Hajj as a condition/situation.

2) Summer can’t be a restricted period since 9:81 speaks about going for fighting in the heat, (there is no fighting in Al Shahr Al Haram -2:217, exception -2:194,179).

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610670.0 (https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9610670.0)

1 Just because people should fast if they can't find an offer, doesn't mean it can't be in the month of scorching heat (ramadan)? 2:185 talks about what to do if you travel, well, you can fast another days. If you would go and perform the pilgrimage in the sacred month of scorching heat (ramadan), then you would not have to fast while traveling. Why can't you perform the pilgrimage in the month of scorching heat (ramadan)?

When do you think the four sacred months are?

2 read the context, 9:81 is happening in one of the four sacred months. They were being attacked, it's an exception. Chapter 9 is about the revocation of the pledge in the four sacred months when they were being attacked.

What kind of calendar do you uphold, a luni or lunisolar one?
: Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?
: Truth Seeker May 16, 2019, 05:36:24 PM
Salaam all,

Here is an article that may be of help:

THE 'LOST' MONTHS OF HAJJ
http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm (http://quransmessage.com/articles/zakah%20FM3.htm)
: Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?
: Mohammed May 20, 2019, 07:43:46 AM
When do you think the four sacred months are?
Probably in-between winter and summer solstice. because in this time most of the wild animals carries infant embryo in their bellies, restriction on hunting is needed in this time since humans cannot identify them(especially in the initial stages of the embryo development) from animals which are not pregnant. It illogical to think that a true believer will hunt/kill an animal that is with babies i.e. no restriction needed after giving birth to the young (summer).

What kind of calendar do you uphold, a luni or lunisolar one?
Solar (17:12), Ramadan, Hajj are also based on seasons as I understood. Full moon/s and moon phases are to mark the start/end (to count the days) of Ramadan, Hajj etc.
: Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?
: Mohammed May 20, 2019, 04:39:44 PM
2 read the context, 9:81 is happening in one of the four sacred months.

How did you confirm that?


When there is no compulsion in religion(2:256), WHY God commands to kill/fight the polytheists after the sacred full moons/months have passed?

9:5
"So when the sacred full moons/months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point..."