QM Forum

The Quran => General Discussions => : Orange August 10, 2012, 05:20:21 PM

: Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
: Orange August 10, 2012, 05:20:21 PM
Salamun Alaikum

Dear Brother(s), We should submit to God Alone. On the same lines when I tried communicating with my extended family - discussing to abandon all secondary sources; because when you look at the author(s) of almost all Hadith or Sunnah collections, you will find collection started almost after 200 years of Prophet’s death, so we shall abstain from them and keep the word of God as the single point of reference, one of cousin stood and asked few questions for which I am striving to find answers from Qur’an only like clear Ayat or Ayats:

1- Will a person be called on the day of judgement by the name of mother or father?

2-If an individual will be called by the name of mother, than is it not true that Prophet lineage is descended from Fatimah Zahra?   

3- Is it right to believe your father when he say’s that his father told him we are “Sayyid” (descendants of the Islamic prophet Muhammad through his grandsons, Hasan ibn Ali and Husain ibn Ali)?

4-Is there only one way of performing Salat?

5- Do we have to do Raf ya dain in Salat? Does Qur’an states anything related to raising hands be in Salat or Dua? Knowingly that there is no Qur’an verse explicitly explaining the details of Salah or any Hadith sharing each and every step than how can one congregate prayers when there is no uniformity in Salah?

6-What is the reality of Imam from Qur’an?

7-Do we have to follow any Imam or Prophet?

8-If we have to follow should we practice the entire things with respect to individual we follow?

9-If all the secondary sources are not to be looked upon why are these injected since more than 1000 years? And there are many scholars / alims / muftiz who read Qur’an from word to word still they follow secondary sources in their daily ways of life.

10-What Ayats share role of politicians?

11-Who initiated this entire following of Sunnah and or Hadith?

12-Didn’t caliph follow Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

 Look forward for a reply in detail.

: Re: Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
: Joseph Islam August 11, 2012, 06:08:01 AM
Salamun Alaikum Orange,

Thanks for your post.

With utmost respect, the nature of your questions humbly suggests to me that there might be some deeper reading you may need to undertake with regards to the Quran. I have cited some articles which I hope provides elucidatory support from the Quran and provides you greater familiarity with its narratives, God willing.

(1) This question has no relevance from the Quran's perspective. Calling by the name of a mother or father on the Day of Judgment is based on Islamic secondary sources and not the Quran. All ties of kinship will be severed on the Day of Judgment (23:101).

(2) The question is based on a premise which has shown to be irrelevant in the above response.

(3) The question is irrelevant. There is no linkage of righteousness to lineage. Please see article [1] below.

(4) No. The Quran offers guidance as to what constitutes monotheistic prayer including its various components. It does not define form or utterance. One needs to ascertain whether today's practice fulfils the basic requirements of the Quran. Many prayer congregations (regardless of minor differences) will be found to do so.

(5) Please see article [2] and [3] below.

(6) Please see article [4] below.

(7) There are no Prophet's alive today. Prophet Muhammad was the last of the Prophets. Please see article [5] below.

[8] Even a prophet of God was only expected to be obeyed up to the point that one considered '‘ma'rufin’ which in Arabic in the context of verse 60:12 clearly refers to anything which is fair, just, right, recognised and honourable. There is no such concept as 'blind following'. Please see article [6] and [7] below.

(9) History of the ancients, even from a Quranic perspective has often shown that masses have agreed on a false consensus. Why have billions of Christians followed the Trinity as a fundamental doctrine of faith despite the Bible not teaching it? The problem is not the scripture, but doctrines which are adopted by later generations and supported from 'outside' the scriptures. Islam is no different. It has adopted many doctrines which it supports from Islamic secondary sources and not the Quran. Following the traditions of forefathers seems quite natural to many. It is important to appreciate that any semblance of an argument that is based on an 'Argumentum ad populum' is a fallacy.

(10) Clarity of the question is required.

(11) Islamic secondary sources had a gradual propagation. The complete canon process took a number of centuries.

(12) This question is irrelevant from the Quran's perspective. The Quran does not name any caliph nor does it deem it necessary to offer any related prophecy.

"Those are a people who have passed away. Theirs is that which they earned, and yours is that which you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do"

I hope that helps, God willing.









: Re: Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
: Orange August 12, 2012, 02:54:53 PM
 :) Thanks a lot for your reply.

Totally agree I require to undertake deeper reading with regards to the Quran. 

With respect to Question 10. I would like to know

1-What is defined for politics in Quran?
2- Is there any concept of geographical boundaries in Quran?
3-What should be the role of ruler prescribed by Quran?
4-Is the type of government if there is in Quran mentioned? Should the government be democratic or dictated?
5-Shall we cast vote? Knowingly that the individual we agree to vote will shortfall due to influence of other people

One more important question I came across  Mr. Shabbir Ahmed The Quran As It Explains Itself:QXP [the author learned the Arabic language in the Quraish dialect in the 1970s under the auspices of Malik Faisal bin Abdul Aziz and Malik Khalid bin Abdul Aziz of Saudi Arabia. This dialect is very similar to the Arabic used in Muhammad's day] what are your views with respect to QXP?

: Re: Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
: Joseph Islam August 12, 2012, 03:49:43 PM
Salamun Alaikum.

Please see my responses below to your questions:

(1) As I am sure you will appreciate, the Quran is not a book of politics. However, it provides multifaceted guidance as to how people and communities should conduct themselves within the ambit of righteousness and within the scope of all walks of life. Politics here will be no different.

(2) The Quran recognises boundaries / kingdoms of a people and communities in many narratives. The concept of geographical boundaries is an accepted part of societal existence and flux.

(3) To lead by example and in light of a Godly system. The examples of many Prophets are present in the Quran such as those of Prophet’s David and Solomon who ruled vast kingdoms. The following verses capture the essence of what is required in leadership.

“And We bestowed on him Isaac and, as an additional gift, (a grandson), Jacob, and We made righteous men of every one (of them). And We made them leaders (Arabic: Immatun), guiding (men) by Our Command, and We sent them inspiration to do good deeds, to establish regular prayers, and to practice regular charity; and they constantly served Us (and Us only)”

“We did indeed give the Book to Moses: be not then in doubt of its reaching (thee): and We made it a guide to the Children of Israel. And We appointed, from among them, leaders (Arabic: Immatun), giving guidance under Our command, so long as they persevered with patience and continued to have faith in Our Signs”.

(4) The requirement for consultation in its widest remit at all levels is at the heart of many Quranic narratives. 'Dictatorships' against the will of a people are arguably not within the spirit of the Quran's guidance. Please see related article [1] below.

(5) No human is perfect. One votes usually to express their opinion as to who is 'best placed' to lead given the options available.


In response to your last question, I find that the QXP is not intended to be a translation of the Quran, even though often I have noted it to be passed off as one. Please note the statement by Dr. Shabbir himself who also at times portrays his rendition as a 'translation'.


http://quransmessage.com/(7)%20Updates/links/Dr.%20Shabbir%20-%20QXP%20Translation.pdf (http://quransmessage.com/(7)%20Updates/links/Dr.%20Shabbir%20-%20QXP%20Translation.pdf)
In my view, the QXP is at best a part translation fused with numerous interpolations based on the views of the author's (Dr. Shabbir’s) personal theological position. For a reader of QXP who has limited or no knowledge of Arabic, the demarcation between 'translation' and 'interpolation' would be almost impossible to discern in casual reading. I personally find much in the QXP without warrant.

For those that do not understand Arabic sufficiently to understand the Quran, I would rather recommend the use of multiple translations in their own language to obtain the gist of the message. For example, the following site is popular with many English readers.


I hope that helps, God willing.


: Re: Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
: Orange August 12, 2012, 04:37:54 PM
Salamun Alaikum, Dear brother thanks for your prompt response.

With respect to

39:23-God bestows from on high the best of all teachings in the shape of a divine writ fully consistent within itself, repeating each statement [of the truth] in manifold forms [a divine writ] whereat shiver the skins of all who of their Sustainer stand in awe: [but] in the end their skins and their hearts do soften at the remembrance of [the grace of] God. Such is God’s guidance: He guides therewith him that wills [to be guided] whereas he whom God lets go astray can never find any guide.

Can a person judge making use of Tasreef ( how the Qur’an repeats its messages from very diverse vantage points)?

Or a person should use Lexicon - Arabic to English or any other language one understands to try understanding the possible meaning.   

May God guide us.  Thanks for your valuable response.
: Re: Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
: Joseph Islam August 13, 2012, 05:57:09 AM
Salamun Alaikum Orange,

With regards my humble views on 'Tasreef al-ayat', please see the following post:


I also share some humble suggestions on how to approach the Quran. Please see the following article below:


I hope that helps, God willing.
: Re: Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
: Orange August 13, 2012, 11:50:16 PM
Thanks a million. Appreciate your work and efforts.

May HIS blessings be with you.

and I hope you never stop this effort for truth.

Please remember me in your prayers.