QM Forum
The Quran => General Discussions => Topic started by: Mubashir on March 15, 2013, 07:47:22 PM
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Salam Friends,
Are the following verses addressed to the blessed Muhammad or mankind in general?
[Bilal]
87:6 By degrees We will teach you to declare the message, so you will not forget,
87:7 Except what God wills, for He knows what is manifest and what is hidden.
Many translators assume that they are addressed to Muhammad and while trying to explain it, end up with the theory of abrogation.
[Haleem]
87:6 [Prophet], We shall teach you [the Quran] and you will not forget––
87:7 unless God wishes; He knows both what is open and what is hidden––
Would appreciate a better and clear understanding. Thanks.
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Dear Mubashir,
May peace be with you.
Just to respectfully remind you that you have already asked this question before which lead to the following thread.
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=458
Regards,
Joseph.
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Peace Mubashir and Joseph,
As 26:193 shows, the Ruh al-Amin imprinted the Quran in the Prophet’s heart thus causing him not forget it. As a human being his mind is apt to forget things, which is a blessing in my opinion. The human brain stores everything we have ever experienced. If we remembered everything, there would be an overload on the system leading to malfunction. Actually there is no need for angels to record since our brains do the recording for God. We can have access to the minute details of the stored memory through hypnosis in this lifetime.
God would help the prophet to forget the worldly things or unrelevant information keeping it in the background and bring the Quranic material to the forefront as needed. This is my understanding.
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Thanks Hope!. Thanks for the reminder Br Joseph!!
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Salaam Hope,
You mention that there is no reason for the angels to record because our brains do the recording but we are told in the Quran that the angels do in fact record For God
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Salaam sister,
You mention that there is no reason for the angels to record because our brains do the recording but we are told in the Quran that the angels do in fact record For God
Yes, that is true but we are also told in the Quran that we will testify against ourselves, too.
36:65 That day We shall seal their mouths up while their hands will speak to Us and their feet bear witness about what they have been earning.
24:24 On the Day when their own tongues, hands and feet shall bear witness against them about what they did
41:20 when they come close to it (Fire), their ears, eyes and skins will testify against them for their misdeeds.
I said brain because it is the command center of the physical body.
Peace,
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Salaam,
The Angels have a duty to record whereas our hands and feet will testify against us in order to expose the sins we have committed.
A multidimensional process is in place so that we will be shown the truth on the Day Of Judgement.
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"I have no power over any harm or profit to myself except what Allah may will" (10:49)
Here, in fact, it does not mean there is possibility for Allah to give the prophet (some times) power over any harm or to profit himself. The prophet was never given any such power at anytime. The issue of prophet gaining any power or harm is linked to GOD in order to confirm the point that there is no question of prophet gaining any knowledge or power from any sources and the issue shall be dealt with God's law of Mashiyat (will power). I believe the verse under discussion should be taken in the same meaning. In other words, there is no question of prophet forgetting anything due to any reason.
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In other words, there is no question of prophet forgetting anything due to any reason.
Salaam
If I say, X will not happen unless Y happens, what does that concept mean in any language?. What is the purpose of an exception in any language??? Again, the Arabic is clear, the Arabic is simple and straightforward, the meaning is clear, the meaning is simple and straightforward - unless of course one does not want to accept it.
Please can you also tell me where the Qur'an speaks about the law of "Mashiyat (will power)"? Actually, please can you tell me where the word 'mashiyat' is used in the Quran and defined.
Thanks. Saba
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Salaam
If I say, X will not happen unless Y happens, what does that concept mean in any language?. What is the purpose of an exception in any language??? Again, the Arabic is clear, the Arabic is simple and straightforward, the meaning is clear, the meaning is simple and straightforward - unless of course one does not want to accept it.
Wassalam,
Kindly tell me what is the message of the 'simple and straightforward verse', "I have no power over any harm or profit to myself except as Allah willeth"(10:49). Does it imply that there is possibility that sometimes the prophet might have had the power to harm and to profit himself? Here Allah says X will not happen unless Y happens. Is there any possibility of Y happening here? YES or NO
Another verse; 007:188 “Say: "I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as God wills. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith."”
Look forward to your comment
Kind regards
Islamist
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Salaam
The meaning of the verse is simple. Allah retains ultimate sovereignty over His purpose and creation!
It is that simple.
If I take a knife and cut myself, I have caused the gash. Allah gave me that power and allowed it to occur as part of cause and effect. If I was stopped from not harming myself because Allah did not will it in that instance, then there are a number of ways that I could have been stopped in my track.
Sometimes it is a thought like in the case of prophet joseph - 12.24 or the prophet moses mother 28.7 or through many other ways.
Many times Allah has intervened and restrained something from happening. If you do not believe me, please read verses like ....
"For had it not been for Allah's repelling some men by means of others, cloisters and churches and oratories and mosques, wherein the name of Allah is oft mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down. Verily Allah helpeth one who helpeth Him. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty" 22.40
...and please don't find a way to interpret away from the simple meanings in this verses. Allah does intervene at times, He does and He has the power to. If you do not want to accept that, that is for you to deal with.
So therefore as you have requested - I am kindly telling you, you are over complicating things with your philosophy. Please do not find me being rude as that is not my purpose. However, I have to tell you that I find many of your posts are over complications because you cannot seem to reconcile the straight forward verses of the Quran with your belief systems.
Now please can you answer my question first -
Please can you also tell me where the Qur'an speaks about the law of "Mashiyat (will power)"? Actually, please can you tell me where the word 'mashiyat' is used in the Quran and defined.
Thanks Saba
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Salaam Islamist,
You asked, "I have no power over any harm or profit to myself except as Allah willeth"(10:49) Does it imply that there is possibility that sometimes the prophet might have had the power to harm and to profit himself. "
Just like anybody else, we have no control over things, although we think we do. How do you know what you will is not what God wills? You may want to kill yourself or some other soul and take action but if its not the right time or place, you will not succeed. This is how I understand this verse, because the prophet was being mocked and challenged by the rejecters in the previous verse: (why don't you bring the punishment now,when is it going to be fulfilled?)
"Say, 'I'm not different from other messengers, I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner.'" 46:9
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Many times Allah has intervened and restrained something from happening. If you do not believe me, please read verses like ....
Salaam Saba,
You may please focus on the topic. I was not discussing whether Allah intervenes or restrains something from happening. My question to you was very simple. In verse 10:49 Allah says X will not happen unless Y happens. I asked you whether Y has ever happened or supposed to happen anytime. In other words, prophet is saying he has no power independently to benefit something on his own accord for himself except what Allah wills. My question is whether prophet had independently benefited anything in his life for himself? (In other words, whether the exception is supposed to happen); Yes or No?
I shall make comments for your other questions (Insha Allah) in my next post after I receive your comments for this since I repeatedly notice you conveniently ignoring this question which is directly linked to the topic under discussion.
Regards,
Islamist
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This is how I understand this verse
Hope,
This is not the verse states
Regards
Islamist
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Salaam Islamist
You want me to stay on the topic while it is you who is deliberately not responding to a simple question that you have been asked?
Anyone reading this thread will clearly see that it is you that has not responded to my question and are you are deliberately evading and skirting it. This is a tactic I am not going to accept and I find it very rude that you are answering a question with a question.
Please read the thread again and see that I asked the question first. See reply #8
Now I ask once again for the third time........ please do not skirt the issue and answer my question first -
Tell me where the Qur'an speaks about the law of "Mashiyat (will power)"? Actually, please can you tell me where the word 'mashiyat' is used in the Quran and defined.
Saba
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Salaam Islamist
You want me to stay on the topic while it is you who is deliberately not responding to a simple question that you have been asked?
Anyone reading this thread will clearly see that it is you that has not responded to my question and are you are deliberately evading and skirting it. This is a tactic I am not going to accept and I find it very rude that you are answering a question with a question.
Salaam Saba,
With all respect towards you, without being rude, let me first tell you that you are not going to respond to my last post due to reason you and me (at the least) aware. And you want now to divert the discussion to another topic. It is ok. Let us see.
Please read the thread again and see that I asked the question first. See reply #8
Now I ask once again for the third time........ please do not skirt the issue and answer my question first -
Tell me where the Qur'an speaks about the law of "Mashiyat (will power)"? Actually, please can you tell me where the word 'mashiyat' is used in the Quran and defined.
Mashiyat means God’s will. The root word is "Shaa—a" and "Ya—shaa—u" meaning to intend or to will. It is the root words of Mashiyat which are used in the Quran at number of places. Let me explain to you in brief the point I wanted to convey when I used "Law of Mashiyat". This is a vast subject and I know you purposefully wanted to divert the topic.
Well, generally, When we refer to God’s will (Mashiyat) we think that Allah acts without any law or rule. And many people think that Allah acts like a dictator. He punishes whomever He wishes, He guides whomever He wishes, He makes people rich and poor whimsically, etc. Such concepts are contrary to the teachings of the Quran. God’s Will does not mean it is exercised without any law or rule.
Allah’s Will in the World of Nature:-
We observe Allah’s will (مشيئة) in the physical universe around us. Everything in the universe follows a certain law or rule. It means God has subjected everything to certain laws. This is what it says in 33:39 as وَكَانَ أَمْرُ اللَّهِ قَدَرًا مَقْدُورًا “God's will is always destiny absolute”. Here God’s mashiyat or Will would mean the laws that are being followed in the entire universe. This phase of God’s Will can be understood by us through knowledge and experience which is the basis of science. That is why these laws are called (بقدر معلوم) in (15:21) and (15:24) i.e., laws which can be discovered. Adam is said to have been given ‘the knowledge of names’. This is nothing but the knowledge of the universe.
Allah’s Will and Human Beings:-
Let me state only some brief points.
Wherever in the Quran has been said “ma yashaa’ i.e. ‘As God wills’, it will have to be seen with reference to the context as to which phase of His Will is being talked about. To take the same meaning everywhere would create confusion due to which one may wrongly believe that the Quran is contradictory! For instance, Quran says at one place, يَهْدِي مَنْ يَشَاءُ إِلَىٰ صِرَاطٍ مُسْتَقِيمٍ yahdi man yashahu ilaa silathin mustaqueen (2:142). It clearly means that God gives guidance to whosoever so wishes. But if it is taken to mean whoever God wishes (as is generally done) then it would mean that guidance from God is received by whoever He wants. In 5:16 Allah states, ‘Allah guideth all who seek His good pleasure to ways of peace and safety, and leadeth them out of darkness, by His will, unto the light,- guideth them to a path that is straight’. It means Allah grants guidance through this Qur’an to anybody who wants to follows His laws: the thing is very clear: that the guidance will come from God no doubt, but the initiative will have to be man’s, i.e, he must want it. This is also what it says in 6:36, “Those who listen (in truth), be sure, will accept”. If man follows God’s laws then he will get guidance to the right path but if he rejects them or goes against them then he will definitely meet destruction. falamma zaaghu azaaghallahu qulubahum: 61:5 when they adopted the crooked ways (wrong ways) then their hearts were also turned. In other words, Allah has given man the power to obey or disobey the laws that have been created for his life, verse 18:29 states, “And say, 'It is the truth from your Lord; wherefore let him who will, believe, and let him, who will, disbelieve”.
I will list down some of the verses from Quran and you may note how Allah’s will could be termed as as His Laws.
وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُمْ أُمَّةً وَاحِدَةً
And if God had enforced His will, He would surely have made you all one people (16:93). The point is emphasized in this verse is that it is not Allah's Will to make all one Ummat. This is repeated at other places also. It is an unchangeable decision (Law) of Allah.
وَقَالُوا لَوْلَا نُزِّلَ عَلَيْهِ آيَةٌ مِنْ رَبِّهِ قُلْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَادِرٌ عَلَىٰ أَنْ يُنَزِّلَ آيَةً وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ
And they say, 'Why has not a Sign been sent down to him from his Lord?' Say, 'Surely God has the power to send down a Sign, but most of them do not know(6:37). The verse confirms the point that Allah has the power to send down sign, but it is not his Plan (Law) to send Signs. In other words, no matter what happens there shall be no issue of sending Signs. The comment "most of them do not know" may be noted.
ْ كَانَ كَبُرَ عَلَيْكَ إِعْرَاضُهُمْ فَإِنِ اسْتَطَعْتَ أَنْ تَبْتَغِيَ نَفَقًا فِي الْأَرْضِ أَوْ سُلَّمًا فِي السَّمَاءِ فَتَأْتِيَهُمْ بِآيَةٍ وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَمَعَهُمْ عَلَى الْهُدَىٰ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ
“And if their turning away is hard on thee, then, if thou art able to seek a passage into the earth or a ladder unto heaven and bring them a Sign, thou canst do so. And had God enforced His will, He could surely have brought them all together to the guidance. So be thou not of those who lack knowledge” (6:35). Here also notice the permanency of Allah’s Will. It is not Allah's will to bring them all the people to the guidance by force.
We normally wonder why Allah does not interfere where there is bloodshed in the world and innocent people are killed (which was in fact what the Angels feared). (As a reply to this) it is mentioned in chapter 2 that, Allah, through His Messengers, sent guidance to mankind advising them against bloodshed. People would resume mutual killings and the Messengers were dead. “If Allah had willed it so, they would not have killed…….. (2:253). Against permanacy of Allah's Will is mentioned.
وَلَوْ أَنَّنَا نَزَّلْنَا إِلَيْهِمُ الْمَلَائِكَةَ وَكَلَّمَهُمُ الْمَوْتَىٰ وَحَشَرْنَا عَلَيْهِمْ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ قُبُلًا مَا كَانُوا لِيُؤْمِنُوا إِلَّا أَنْ يَشَاءَ اللَّهُ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَهُمْ يَجْهَلُونَ
And even if We send down unto them angels, and the dead speak to them, and We gather to them all things face to face, they would not believe, unless God enforced His Will. But most of them are ignorant(6:111). Here it does not mean that some people with the character mentioned in the verse may believe if Allah Will so. Here exception does not mean Allah may enforce His will sometimes and they may believe (the exception is not going to happen). Here the issue of their belief is linked to Allah's will is to highlight that such people is not going to believe in any case.
وَلَوْ شَاءَ اللَّهُ مَا أَشْرَكُوا
Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed divinity to aught beside Him (6:107). Here it does not mean that it was due to Allah’s whimsical decision and will that they had set up gods with Him. Actually, it was the claim of the idolaters that it was the will of Allah that they worship other gods with Allah. “And the idolaters say, 'If God had so willed, we should not have worshiped anything beside Him, neither we nor our fathers, nor should we have forbidden anything without command from Him.' So did those who opposed the truth before them. Are the Messengers responsible for anything except the plain delivery of the Message?”(16:35). The Quran does not contradict each other. Think.
Regards
Islamist
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Salaam Islamist
Thank you for explaining. At least I understand what this concept is that you are attempting to use.
I have never said that Allah's (swt) intervention is whimsical but you seem to predict Allah's (swt) will according to certain laws and you want to contain him in those laws. Allah (swt) cannot be contained and he can alter his laws if he wills. So when the mount came crashing down for prophet Moses or the seas parted for Prophet Moses what happened to your defined laws? Of course, he intervened!
Now, I am not diverting the topic. I asked you a question because of a statement you made and you have finally responded. Thank you!
Now to your question. I actually gave you my answer in a detailed response, but I think you want a simple YES NO answer.
Kindly tell me what is the message of the 'simple and straightforward verse', "I have no power over any harm or profit to myself except as Allah willeth"(10:49). Does it imply that there is possibility that sometimes the prophet might have had the power to harm and to profit himself? Here Allah says X will not happen unless Y happens. Is there any possibility of Y happening here? YES or NO
The answer is YES, and I clearly gave you the context why. Please reread my response #10. Sometimes Allah (swt) allows cause and effect and sometimes he can intervene to stop it. I gave you clear verses. That is why I kept asking you about these laws you talk about as I think understanding of these laws don't allow to accept the clear verses of the Qur'an.
Salaam. Saba
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The answer is YES, and I clearly gave you the context why. Please reread my response #10. Sometimes Allah (swt) allows cause and effect and sometimes he can intervene to stop it. I gave you clear verses. That is why I kept asking you about these laws you talk about as I think understanding of these laws don't allow to accept the clear verses of the Qur'an.
Assalamu alaikum.
Thank you for the response. You have mentioned "Yes" without realizing the seriousness. I know you are not realizing the implication of "Yes" here and therefore I take your comment as an innocent comment. To suggest a view (unknowingly) that it is possible for prophet to independently benefit something for himself without the role of God and to believe that there is possibility for Allah to give such an authority to the prophet (even if it is one time) will make the Quranic teaching upside down. I cannot even say here let us agree to disagree.
As a concluding remark, focusing the topic under discussion, I kindly advise you not to go for direct Arabic meaning blindly wherever Allah mentions His Will without cross checking different verses (Allah instructs us always to ponder on the verses). With the risk of repetition, let me tell you an example. In verse 6:107 it states, “If your God had so willed, they would not have worshipped other than Him”. If we go for a superficial reading, based on direct word meanings we might conclude that the verse is stating that it is because of Allah's wish and choice that they are worshiping other Gods (which was the allegation of mushrikeen Allah strongly condemned and objected in 16:35 & 6:148). This verse simply means that if it was the will of Allah he would have guided everyone to the right path, but Allah gave freedom of choice to man either to accept his message or to reject it. That is why in the very same chapter, countering the false claim mushrikeen that it is because of Allah they worship other gods in 6:148, in the very next verse, Allah says; “Say: With Allah is the perfect proof and argument, had He so willed, He would indeed have guided you all.” (6:149)
Take care awlays.
Assalamu alaikum
Islamist
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Thank you for the response. You have mentioned "Yes" without realizing the seriousness. I know you are not realizing the implication of "Yes" here and therefore I take your comment as an innocent comment.
Very patronizing indeed! :(
To suggest a view (unknowingly) that it is possible for prophet to independently benefit something for himself without the role of God and to believe that there is possibility for Allah to give such an authority to the prophet (even if it is one time) will make the Quranic teaching upside down. I cannot even say here let us agree to disagree.
It seems you never read any of my threads properly as I never said that the Prophet could do anything without the role of God. I separated cause and effect and intervention in various ways possible, but it seems you just cannot see past your own thinking.
As a concluding remark, focusing the topic under discussion, I kindly advise you not to go for direct Arabic meaning blindly wherever Allah mentions His Will without cross checking different verses (Allah instructs us always to ponder on the verses).
Another patronizing remark.
I have nothing more to say to you on this topic Islamist.
As they say ......To be your way and me mine Salaam. Saba