Messages

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General Discussions / Re: How many earths?

« on: September 01, 2015, 10:34:04 AM »

Peace Good Logic,
I think the Daabah cannot be a machine, or computer.  It spits whatever is fed into it. It cannot decipher the Revelation.
And I don't think dabbah is angels either---please take a look at 16:49 where the dabbah and the angels are mentioned as separate entities. Also, the definition of the (dabbah) is given in 24:45—it seems to be all about animals - man is included as an example of the “daabah” as per 24:45 – and so are the birds because they are bipedal also (some people may not include birds because they are mentioned separately from the daabbah in the same verse).
Now, a word about the following verse you quoted (27:82):
وَإِذا وَقَعَ القَولُ عَلَيهِم أَخرَجنا لَهُم دابَّةً مِنَ الأَرضِ تُكَلِّمُهُم أَنَّ النّاسَ كانوا بِـٔايٰتِنا لا يوقِنونَ
I must admit that I do not have a clear understanding of this verse despite my best efforts. This seems to be a prediction.  If I were a Sunni or a Shi’a, I would say “Ahah, this is precisely about the “Mahdi” who will come at the end of time!!! 
Even though I am not sold on the concept of some Mehdi coming to the world to convince the world of the veracity of the Qur’anic signs,  I must ask you the question: Why can’t a man (or a group of men) be the "dabbah" referred to in this verse?  After all, man was created from the clay, therefore he fits right into the term (min al-ardhi). I believe a knowledgeable man of the 21st century can understand the Qur'an much, much better than the classical “imams”.  The ancient imams did not have the tools that we are blessed with today and I am sure the understanding of the Qur’an will get even better as God exposes man to more and more knowledge. Things are shaping up in a way that can potentially convince even the hard-core scientists. I believe we will have a lot more Francis Collins in time. The future will undoubtedly bring more astonishing discoveries about the realities of the Qur’an.

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General Discussions / Re: How many earths?

« on: August 31, 2015, 11:27:20 PM »

Peace good logic,

As brother Joseph pointed out, you want to address your views (life only on earth) by commenting on 42:29 (or 16:49).  This is the key verse  that clearly tells us that there are "daabbah" (life forms or crawlers/legged walkers) in "feehima" (in both the heavens and the earth). So I think this should not leave us any doubt that there is real life out in the cosmos - whether it is similar to our familiar life forms or not, is a question that we can talk about or better - speculate.

You may still have a point if you can provide some evidence from the Qur'an that the word "daabbah" in 42:29 may mean "angels"! Can the angels be considered "daabbah"?  I don't think so as per 16;49 which separately metions daabbah and malaaikah. Furthermore, there is a definition of the word "daabah" given in 24:45.

Now, another possible thought that pops up in my mind by reflecting on  "wa min al-ardhi mithalahunna" in 65:12 is the possibility that the word "ardh" here is being used in the form of the phrase "wa min al-ardh mithlahunna" (from the Earth in a similar fashion) and not "al-ardh mithlahunna". So, the verse 65:12 would make some sense to assume that our planet Earth is (in a similar fashion) made of seven/many - (perhaps) layers/varieties - with no specific reference to life. In that case, the verse 65:12 should be treated independently of 42:29 an 16:49. The latter is a valid possible because the word "ardh" in the Qur'an is not only mentioned solely as the planet "Earth" but also in the context of 'a part of the planet Earth (i.e, country, a tract of land where a community lives) in several verses (e.g., 5:21, 7:110). This most likely refers to the extraordinary diversity of shapes and beauty of the many different parts of the planet Earth - like seven/many heavens.
God be praised. The Qur'an is an infinite ocean - it satisfies human curiosity at several levels - what a grace of the Most High!

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Prophets and Messengers / Re: Abraham lied three times

« on: August 29, 2015, 10:44:44 AM »

Salam Healerofworlds,

I totally agree with your line of argument---that Prophet Ibraheem (pbuh) was making a point that everyone in the audience understood, even though they detested it.

But...Ibraheem was not lying! How so?

They said, "We heard a youth talk of them: He is called Abraham." - 21:60 (Y. Ali)
They said, "Then bring him before the eyes of the people, that they may bear witness." - 21:61 (Y. Ali)
So,  in this verse the people are saying that they heard Ibraheem "mentioning them" (which obviously means that he was already telling all these folks openly that hit was he who broke the little idols).  That's why the all these are being declared as "witnesses"!
So, the whole episode/drama was apparently all well-thought-of and per-planned by Ibraheem. That's why he confidently asks "the big one did it" (even though everyone is a witness to his doing it as by his own "mentioning" (admission of "guilt") of it!
Finally, Ibraheem scores the home run---forces the audience to think why they should worship something that  can neither speak, nor benefit, nor harm.
I hope I making sense. Thanks. 
 
He said: "Nay, this was done by - this is their biggest one! ask them, if they can speak intelligently!" - 21:63 (Y. Ali)

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General Discussions / Re: How many earths?

« on: August 29, 2015, 05:03:45 AM »

Salam, brother Joseph:
I completely agree with you regarding the significance of the number 7 (or even 70, or 100 as they appear in the Qur'an).  I have always taken this number as meaning "several or many (indefinite)".  However, when the word “saba’a” is translated into non-Arabic language, it is usually translated as "seven", its meaning is then left to the readers to decide what they make of it. The main point of the question was why Allah uses the singular for "ardh" everywhere.
I believe the Qur'an is for all times and not restricted to its primary audience. Allah would not hide the truth from anyone regardless of the time frame. I am aware of 42:29 (and some other verses) and my understanding of that verse is not very different from yours, in that, there is certainly life out there (I take the word "daabbah" as a "living entity" in general and not necessarily as land animals or creeping/walking animals). However, I believe that other planets may not have exactly the same living conditions as we have on this earth (e.g., nucleic acids/enzymes or proteins and other chemicals in the same proportion, etc).  So, in my humble understanding, while those planets/heavenly bodies are indeed a part of the "samawaatt” , they may not be exactly called "earth/s" (in regard to its specific chemical and physical composition).
Now I do realize that if my understanding is correct (which I am not sure it is---hence the inquiry), then how do I understand “mithlahunna”  (like them--heavens) in 65:12.  In this verse, the sense of “similar number” has always been implied but not explicitly mentioned. I tend to ask myself the question - could the phrase “mithlahunna” in this verse mean “Just as God has created seven heavens, He has created the earth also/similarly/in a similar fashion”. Another way out of this difficulty may be to say that the word “ardh” may be both singular and plural in “classic Arabic of the 7th century”---that’s pure speculation, though.
So, apparently, the question is still there—why did Allah use the word “ardh” in a singular form in over 300 hundred times. I ask this because I don’t think anyone in the 7th would have objected to Allah telling them unambiguously about the “seven heavens and seven earths”.  The verse 42:29 is clear, as you have rightly pointed out, that there is life in the 'samawaat'.  Other verses also tend to support this notion (19:93-96, for example). In fact, some of the ‘intelligent beings’ may be even superior to us in the Divine design, as per 17:70:
17:70 Verily We have honored the children of Adam. We carry them on the land and the sea, and have made provision of good things for them, and have preferred them above many of those whom We created with a marked preferment.
Another noteworthy point can be made from the famous verse 21:30. This verse that describes how the “Heavens and the earth” were created in a big cosmic event, also treats the “heavens and the earth” separately as part of this cleaving event.
These are not the views that I could ‘vouch for’ and put a seal of confidence on. Nevertheless, I do think that this issue may require further reflection.  Thanks.

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General Discussions / How many earths?

« on: August 28, 2015, 07:40:54 AM »

Salamun alaikum all:

"Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge" - 65:12 (Y. Ali) 
This verse is mostly explained  by asserting that there are as many earths as there are heavens. However, I am not aware of any verse of the Qur'an where the plural of the word "ardh" (araadh-iy). It is noted that whenever the combination of heavens and earth is mentioned in the Qur'an, it is always the plural form of heaven (samawaati) but a singular form of earth is used. So, over 300 times in the Qur'an we see "heavens and the earth" , not "heavens and the earths".  That being the case, should we still insist on trranslation of the phrase "wa min al-ardhi mithlahunna") as "seven earths"? Or, is there an alternative explanation of this verse (65:12)?

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General Discussions / Re: Was Prophet Joseph (a.s) the most handsome man ever known?

« on: August 21, 2015, 01:36:54 PM »

Salam bro sardar Miyan,
I agree with you - Hajj or no Hajj - nowhere should a woman hide her face.  The Face is the ID of a human being, man or woman.
I saw a funny cartoon somewhere - a mullah was introducing his burqa-clad (full face and body covered) wife to his friend "This is my wife, Najma"---and the friend was looking confused, and a balloon coming from him was saying "mmmmm. Should I go in, or she will come out?" 

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General Discussions / Re: Was Prophet Joseph (a.s) the most handsome man ever known?

« on: August 20, 2015, 07:36:47 AM »

Peace brother,

According to the man-made rules, called the "Shari'a", a women must wear hijab (at least, if not burqa/niqab) when she goes out.  However, if a woman is pretty, she must not show her face at all--even at the K'aba!

Still if you ask them, they will say they are their 'sisters'!

The Saudis have invented their Islam--but they have the 'Two Houses" we all need, and so we mess with them.
Irfan

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General Discussions / Re: Was Prophet Joseph (a.s) the most handsome man ever known?

« on: August 19, 2015, 10:48:56 PM »

Salam br. good logic,
Thanks for sharing your personal reflections. In that vein, I was a very ordinary South Indian-looking man in my youthful days---but somehow I still managed to get attraction of several girls---I think it was because the parents of the girl left the 'two of us' alone in a room for one good hour everyday for at least one full month- My secret? I was a private tutor to some girl students.  It doesn't work now - even if you leave me alone with a girl in a private room for years.
So there's the secret of the one-sided affair of governor's wife!
The wife was left alone with someone much younger and noble in nature for a very long time, with governor busy most of the time in office.  I wonder why would a 'sane' person like the governor leave his wife alone with an extremely handsome boy/man? Recently three men were deported from Saudi Arabia; their fault?  They were "too handsome" for Saudi women! I am not kidding:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/01/16/omar-borkan-al-gala-deported_n_6488782.html
So it is not at all unexpected that at least one of the ladies - governor's wife - got infatuated with someone who was always nigh. Thanks for reminding me of making this point that could have been made in my earlier posts.
I wish to say  that Joseph and I have always agreed more than we have differed. Difference of opinion is great because this is how we learn from each other.  In my considered opinion, the best way to study the Qur'an is not by attending the "Friday khutbas and frequently invited lectures" but by studying it together. 
God bless you,
Irfan

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General Discussions / Re: Was Prophet Joseph (a.s) the most handsome man ever known?

« on: August 19, 2015, 10:19:02 PM »

Salamun alaikum, brother Joseph,
As pointed out in my earlier post, Prophet Joseph clearly calls the act of cutting of the hands by women as a guile/snare/deception and so we need to reflect upon how that strategy could be a guile. Governor's wife is clearly an extremely cunning and oppressive lady who would go to any extent to achieve her ends. Notice how she blames Joseph when she is caught red-handed by her husband when she tried to seduce Joseph inside the locked room:
12:25 (Y. Ali) So they both raced each other to the door, and she tore his shirt from the back: they both found her lord near the door. She said: "What is the (fitting) punishment for one who formed an evil design against thy wife, but prison or a grievous chastisement?"
And then she sends Joseph to prison for no obvious fault of his (all the women are witnesses to her intention of sending Joseph to prison and none objects to this obvious unfairness! One wonders why. Again, in my humble suggestion, we need to think about why Joseph calls this whole affair a per-meditated plot.
Now the all-important question relevant to this discourse: What did God bestow on the Prophet Joseph other than prophethood? Beauty? Well, let's take a look how God answers this question:
12:22 (Y. Ali) When Joseph attained His full manhood, We gave him power and knowledge: thus do We reward those who do right.
God could have mentioned "husn" (beauty) here along with power and wisdom - but He didn't.  In fact, God never ever says anywhere in the Qur'an that Joseph was even modestly handsome let alone the most handsome creature of the world as we know from sources outside the Qur'an. In fact, as I mentioned before he was sold for a very low price at the market.
God gave Joseph "power and wisdom" because this is how He bestows the 'angelic character' to those who do good.
As to your quoting Bible, I must say that, as for me, I have never attempted to get my understanding of the Qur'an from sources other than the Qur'an - that's because I have not needed them really. In fact, whenever I went there, I always regretted wasting my time.
The Qur'an concretely claims to be completely detailed (6:114, among many other verses all of us are very familiar with) and I have always found this claim to be true.
I rest my case.  Thanks for all your input.  I value it.
Irfan
   

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General Discussions / Re: Was Prophet Joseph (a.s) the most handsome man ever known?

« on: August 18, 2015, 10:54:37 PM »

Salam brother Joseph,
Thanks for your input.  I am aware of the verse 12:31 and I have had some time to reflect on this verse. I think this verse is not talking about the "beauty' of Prophet Joseph (a.s), but  his piety.  The women are giving testimony of his piety by calling him an "honorable angel (malakun kareem)".  The angels, in my humble view, are not known for their beauty - but they are known for their sinless nature because they do not disobey God (66:6).  Most likely, Joseph did not even look at the well-adorned women invited to the feast by the governor's wife, hence the comment which infuriated the wife - as per my understanding of the next verse 12:32 as if she was saying "what does he think he is!".
If Prophet Joseph (as) was such a pretty-face man, the women probably would have exclaimed  “Wao! he is so pretty - he looks like a handsome prince!”  Rather, they called him “honorable angel”.
12:32 (Y. Ali) She said: "There before you is the man about whom ye did blame me! I did seek to seduce him from his (true) self but he did firmly save himself guiltless!....and now, if he doth not my bidding, he shall certainly be cast into prison, and (what is more) be of the company of the vilest!"
But there's more to the argument:  If the Prophet Joseph was so handsome ("beautiful" - if this word can be used for a man), then it is more likely that he was even more handsome as a child. In the entire chapter 12, we note that , none of the people who knew Joseph from childhood to his appointment as a governor, have praised Joseph for his "beauty" -  not his father, nor his 11 brothers, nor the women/girls of his hometown, nor his prison mate who only remembers him as dream-interpreter but not as a pretty-face man. Also, the Egyptian king was not amazed when he saw Joseph for the first time in court. In fact, even the caravan folks who took the child Joseph out of the well did not wonder about the beauty of their unexpected discovery.  We also particularly note that Joseph as a child was sold for a paltry priced--a few silver coins (12:20)! So, even his slave market buyers did not think much of the child Joseph as some really precious slave deal. This would be quite unusual because a child of such exquisite beauty is expected to bring a hefty price in the slave market.
12:20 (Y. Ali) The (Brethren) sold him for a miserable price, for a few dirhams counted out: in such low estimation did they hold him!
And that’s not all; we note in 12:50 that Joseph seems to know what these women were doing or up to during the governor’s wife’s invitation (referring to 12:30)—in fact, he calls their presence at the feast and their conduct a “deceit/guile/snare” (kayd).  So even before going to the King to interpret his dream, he seems to have a desire to have everything clarified by the solid testimony of the women of the invitation in the King’s court.
12:50 (Y. Ali) So the king said: "Bring ye him unto me." But when the messenger came to him, (Joseph) said: "Go thou back to thy lord, and ask him, 'What is the state of mind of the ladies who cut their hands'? For my Lord is certainly well aware of their snare (kaydahunna)."
And the women did give the testimony of Prophet Joseph’s ‘innocence’—not of their being particularly attracted to him for his ‘beauty’. 
12:51 (Y. Ali) (The king) said (to the ladies): "What was your affair when ye did seek to seduce Joseph from his (true) self?" The ladies said: "(Allah) preserve us! no evil know we against him!" Said the 'Aziz's wife: "Now is the truth manifest (to all): it was I who sought to seduce him from his (true) self: He is indeed of those who are (ever) true (and virtuous).
They did not mention their cutting of hands either---because that’s what the ‘guile’ was all about.
I hope this explains my point of view. I could be wrong of course because, at the end of the day, it’s always God Who knows best. He created and saw Joseph. I haven’t.
Thanks. God bless.

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General Discussions / Re: On Fir'ouns body

« on: August 18, 2015, 09:18:13 PM »

Salam brother Joseph,
I have a related question that may clarify our understanding of 10:92  a bit better: Is it a fact that the dead bodies of several the ancient Egyptians kings/pharaohs and others have only been discovered after the revelation of the Qur'an? If that is a fact - and I do not know if it is - then, I find it quite remarkable that the God talks about "saving the body as a sign for those who follow (which I understand as 'following generations')" for one of the Egyptian kings that is mentioned specifically in the Scriptures - the Pharaoh of Prophet Moses' time, when no evidence of any such discovery was forthcoming or even expected. We all know that God promised in 10:92 that He will make it a sign for "whoever come after the Pharaoh". So my understanding remains the same as I expressed earlier that the immediate successors of the Pharaoh are not the only ones that "come after" but that includes all generations till the DOJ.  The body, I believe, has always been there -  in the tomb ever since the drowning event - so the sign have always been there.  Now, the man of today or of the latest few centuries will not be convinced unless they actually see the 'sign'.  So I am not surprised at all that an archaeologist/expert fount at least one of the dead bodies of pharaohs that shows signs of death by drowning! We may need some more support and evidence - and I believe the DNA evidence would be of immense help in this regard.  Now-a-days, the emerging technologies may allow us to get closer to the Qur'anic 'sign'. It is also possible the real body has yet to be discovered - and if that's the case, that will happen, God-willing - if it has not already happened.
I hope I am making sense.  God bless.

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General Discussions / Re: Plural Marriage

« on: August 18, 2015, 04:40:20 AM »

Salam,
The verse 4:3 does not say "Marry among 'them' or orphans".  It says marry "min annisaai" (from women--these could be the women among the mothers of orphans, orphans f marriageable age (4:6), or other women).
Here is another question concerning the verse 4:3:  It says "mathna wa thulatha wa rubaa'a" which really does not mean "two or three or four" according to the Arabic language but this could only be a 'way' of saying "two, three, four".  To clarify, In Urdu, for example, the part of the verse "mathna wa thulatha wa rubaa'a" would be as we say "do do, teen teen, char char". 
Why do I raise this question? Well, because I wonder if having four wives is already not too many that one can normally handle (unless one is Rasputin!).  In other words, I wonder if the verse is really saying "two to a maximum of four".  It may be a way of saying in the Qur’anic Arabic "you can marry as many women as you think you need to take care of the orphans".  So I agree with the brother—it’s not about the numbers—it’s about the quality of caring about the orphans!
If the verse 4:3 really is talking about taking a maximum of four wives, then, we have to understand that the angels can have only up to a maximum of four wings.  Please note that we find exactly the same statement "mathna wa thulatha wa rubaa'a" being used in  35:1.


     الْحَمْدُ لِلَّهِ فَاطِرِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ جَاعِلِ الْمَلَائِكَةِ رُسُلًا أُولِي أَجْنِحَةٍ مَّثْنَى وَثُلَاثَ وَرُبَاعَ يَزِيدُ فِي الْخَلْقِ مَا يَشَاء إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ (35:1)
   

Alhamdu lillahi fatiri alssamawati waalardi jaAAili almalaikati rusulan olee ajnihatin mathna wathulatha warubaAAa yazeedu fee alkhalqi ma yashao inna Allaha AAala kulli shayin qadeerun
 

35:1 (Y. Ali) Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things.
If your understanding of the "wings/duties/???" of the angels is a maximum of four as per 35:1, then your understanding of the the same is justified for 4:3.

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General Discussions / Re: God as 'He'?

« on: August 18, 2015, 03:59:54 AM »

Probably the question may be rephrased as "Has the Qur'an ever called women by "Ya ayyuhannisaau" (O' women!).  The counter question would have ""Ya ayyuharrijaalu" (O' women!)?" Or any other phrase that makes distinction between sexes "Ya ayyuha.....mo'minaatu....kaafiraatu etc"
Why only "ayyhannaasu" or "ya ayyuhalladheena amanoo" etc? All these are genderless phrases. 
I have not seen any instance of this in the Qur'an. Very interesting question.

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General Discussions / Re: On Fir'ouns body

« on: August 18, 2015, 12:34:51 AM »

Salam all,

I think the verse 10:92 is implicit in purport that the dead body of the Pharaoh was most likely discovered soon after his drowning because the part of the verse that says "litakoona liman khalfaka ayatan" (so that it becomes a sign for those who come after you), but, are we all not included in this part of the verse?  In my humble view this part could equally imply the body's preserved status even today and beyond because human race continues coming "after" Pharaoh's death . I really see no warrant in this verse to draw the conclusion that it was only meant for those who came immediately after him.  God mentions this as a "sign" and He means it .  After all, how will today's scientists believe in the veracity of this particular sign of Qur'an if they could not be convinced of God's "signs" in general.
Let's think about today:  The scientists of today are thinking about bringing the 55-million year old 'dead-and-reduced-to-dusty-skeleton' dinosaurs back to life.  They believe it's at is least 'theoretically' possible through the remarkable advancement of genetics-based cloning technologies. I wonder why a thorough DNA genomic analysis of the ancient Pharaohs body has not been (if it has not been) genetically carried out. DNA should put some sort of a time stamp on the body as it does in all other instances of of genomic analyses. Of course, I realize that time stamp may not be totally conclusive but other evidences can be explored, collected, and analyzed.  At the end of the day the Qur'an says that Pharaoh's body is "preserved/saved from ruin" (nunajjayka).
My two cents anyway.  God knows best. Thanks

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General Discussions / Was Prophet Joseph (a.s) the most handsome man ever known?

« on: August 17, 2015, 11:12:22 PM »

So much so that women of his time fell in love with him at the first sight, least of them the ancient Egypt's governor's wife? Is there any Qur'anic evidence that he was the most pretty-faced lady killer?
I would appreciate your comments.  Thanks