Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Wakas

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 32
General Discussions / Re: Assafwah wa almarwah?
« on: August 16, 2019, 07:54:36 AM »
Did i understand it right? You think the safa and the marwah is a place where the people can receive the meat or eat the cooked offer?

Yes but there is not much to go on.

General Discussions / Re: Assafwah wa almarwah?
« on: August 09, 2019, 10:17:51 PM »

2:158 Indeed, the safa1 and the marwah2 are from the markers/tokens (sha3air)3 of God, so whoever did HaJJ 4 (at/of) the shelter/house5 or enlivened/visited6 there is no blame/error on him that he go amongst by/at them both7 and whoever volunteered good/better8 then God is Appreciative, Knowing.

1 - root: Sad-Fa-Waw. See Project Root List to read about possible meanings for given roots in this article.
2 - root: Miim-Ra-Waw.
3 - root: Shiin-Ayn-Ra. The root meanings and Quran usage suggest the word describes things/tokens/symbols/markers/practices (usually to do with sustenance/benefit) that have a deeper significance, i.e. help make us aware of something (e.g. God and His beneficience). Honouring such "sha3air" can indicate "taqwa" (forethoughtfulness/conscientiousness/piety) of the hearts, and can provide opportunity to be thankful and/or magnify God for what He has guided you - see 5:2, 22:32, 22:36-37.
4 - root: Ha-Jim-Jim. Note the perfect/past tense implies one could have done "HaJJ" but not necessarily encountered "safa" and "marwah" yet, meaning they are not compulsory aspects of "HaJJ" (or "umrah") but are accessible secondary to it. Also if they were an intrinsic part of "al HaJJ" then there would be no need to state "there is no blame on him that he should go about/amongst them". This is further reinforced by the imperfect tense "ttawwaf" which follows. As a side note, some Traditional commentators also mention this point.
5 - root: Ba-Ya-Ta. It principally means to reach the night or spend the night in and "bayt" is that place. It can be used for any structure that is utilised for such a purpose. Thus, "bayt" is closer to shelter as the conceptual meaning and within that meaning is the house. In this context it refers to the locality/region/area, wherein "al hajj" is being held, and is thus acting as a shelter/house for the people. This will be further discussed later.
6 - root: Ayn-Miim-Ra. Also perfect/past tense.
7 - root: Tay-Waw-Fa. Note it says "ttawwaf bi" which is the exact same phrase in 22:29 (involving the ancient/noble shelter/house / "al bayt al 3tiq") which most commentators take to mean "circuit" but they do not take it to mean "circuit" here. Some may argue that since there are two objects here, going to and fro is the implied meaning here rather than "circuit".
8 - the phrase "whoever volunteered good/better" is likely related to what came before, i.e. "no blame on him that he go about them". Interestingly, if it is taken as "whoever volunteered better", as I feel the implication is, then this can only mean: better than "going about/amongst safa and marwah". The obvious question then is: what is better?

2:158 clearly indicates there is a difference between HaJJ and i'tamara/visited (commonly translated as "umrah").

The additional information we have extracted about "safa" and "marwah" is as follows, which may help narrow down the possible meanings:
1) other occurrences of "sha3air of God" refer to provision of sustenance/food by means of the animals, thus they could be related to that
2) they are accessible to those who did HaJJ or visited the house/shelter, but are secondary to it
3) it is possible some might mistakenly assign blame if one goes about them or one going about them could think they are doing something negative/wrong
4) it may be possible to volunteer better than going amongst them

When we look at CAD "al safa" can refer to the animals which give much milk (said of she-camel/sheep/goat), and "al marwah" can refer to a stone where a cooking fire is started or on which an animal is slaughtered. If we opt for these meanings then the one going about them in 2:158 would be consuming food, not providing it. If so, this makes it easy to understand why this could be thought of as a negative, i.e. someone at this location could take advantage of such offerings/availability and consume aplenty without giving in return. This would also help explain why it says "whoever volunteered better" because providing food is better than consuming it, and this may tie in with verses such as 2:196 which discusses giving an offering/gift (e.g. an animal to be used for food provision). This is also the case for one who did HaJJ because even though doing HaJJ involves providing food for others, one could still consume more than they gave.
If we do choose this meaning, then we may need to consider why animals of milking are not discussed under the ordinary food to give/feed others with for one undertaking the HaJJ and this may be because it is more difficult for one to do, as the timing needs to be right for a female animal to give milk, e.g. shortly after them giving birth. Giving an animal for slaughter is much easier.
There are other possibilities for these words from CAD, e.g. "al safa" can mean "the palm tree heavy with fruit", "al marwah" can mean "a type of fragrant tree".

A plausible interpretation of "no blame on him that he go about them" is that this phrase is often used in AQ to discuss an exception/modification to the recommendation/rule/principle (e.g. 2:229, 2:282, 4:101, 4:102, 24:29, 24:58, 24:60), thus could refer to an exception, e.g. regarding slaughtering of animals on a stone (as this may be misconstrued as a throwback to idolatrous practice, see 5:3), or "marwah" can mean a stone from which blades are made even though there is no hunting or fighting in this period, or sightseeing of unique/stone landmarks at such a location could be mistaken for their veneration. Volunteering good/better in this case would be to help out at the event rather than sightseeing perhaps.

There seems to be insufficient evidence, as per Quran, to definitively deduce the meaning of "safa" and "marwah", however we should bear in mind that whatever they are the implication is that they are not critical/compulsory aspects for one who did "HaJJ" or visited.

General Discussions / Re: meaning of baʿūḍatan
« on: August 08, 2019, 06:49:39 PM »

Did you look up the right root?


= Ba-Ayn-Dad = Gnats, mosquitoes, bitten, annoyed or molested by gnats or mosquitoes. Dividing into parts or portions, which are distinct or separate from each other. Something or someone. An impossible or difficult thing imposed on someone.

ba'udah n.f. 2:26

LL, V1, p: 264  ##

General Discussions / Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?
« on: August 05, 2019, 05:05:45 AM »
peace all,

I have written an article on this topic to put my thoughts/notes in one place: Click Here

Title: Does The Quran say God told Abraham to sacrifice his son?

General Discussions / Re: Apps for reading the Quran on the go
« on: August 04, 2019, 12:48:51 PM »
I sent you an email (you can also contact me via any of the above sites). As a side note I do not recommend making your TEL number public but it's up to you. You can contact site admin to remove it if you want.

General Discussions / Re: Apps for reading the Quran on the go
« on: August 04, 2019, 12:14:30 AM »
I think improving/updating is a good idea. In their forum there are quite a number of grammar corrections which have not been updated AFAIK. I have been in contact with the people behind the site/data, but its current status is that further development has stopped.

I only know basic HTML/webpage stuff, although I have used CMS like Wordpress, forums etc. I run and project managed some sites, e.g. (and it's app)
and a few others.

I was thinking about updating the PRL app in the future, hence my Q to you, but it's unlikely at this stage.

General Discussions / Re: Apps for reading the Quran on the go
« on: August 03, 2019, 01:11:29 AM »
peace all,

You may wish to look at:

It's not an app though but compatible for mobile viewing.

s1c4r1us, can you develop apps?

General Discussions / Re: Verse 9:29
« on: July 16, 2019, 05:18:00 AM »
peace Student,

Sorry, only saw your reply today.

Q1: yes.

Q2: I am saying these verses do not favour the "salat=ritual prayer" view.

As a side note if I ever miss someone's question feel free to message me, thanks.

peace Athman,

....... theological approach to verse 48:29 to be, respectfully, academically wanting.

Thanks for the reply. To clarify, the preposition "fee" occurs many times in Quran (well over a thousand) and you cited one wherein you think it means "on" (20:71). Of course there may be more as I do not expect you (or others) to study every occurrence.

I found your use of "academically wanting" interesting because the gist of your post was "it could still mean X despite the issues you raise" (I never said it couldn't) and you never pointed out any clear errors or logical fallacies etc. Such an approach seems sound to me. "to me" being the key phrase, as it is my subjective opinion, as is yours with regard to what is "academically wanting".

As I've said many times I prefer evidence on the table so it can be weighed, so thanks for presenting yours. Readers can make up their own minds.


Read 48:24 and the verses before it and after it.

The Sacred Temple is in Mecca.

A confirmation bias is a type of cognitive bias that involves favoring information that confirms your previously existing beliefs or biases.

Islamic Duties / Re: Prayer
« on: July 10, 2019, 07:31:01 AM »
peace Athman,

Yes, your post elaborates on your position and reasoning behind your view. I assume you are familiar with my articles thus will presumably already know the issues I raise regarding some of the points you bring up, e.g. 48:29.

In any case I thought it was odd you seemed to backup your prayer direction view with another verse that also does not mention salat, i.e. 6:79 (and interestingly most Traditional exegetes give a non-directional understanding of this verse as they say the cuboid called Kaabah was not built yet thus no direction existed, although there is variance as expected), and did not discuss the Arabic which is explicit/clear "and from wherever thou come forth / depart....". And when you referenced 10:87 I assume you meant Moses and not Abraham.

Islamic Duties / Re: Prayer
« on: July 06, 2019, 08:02:30 PM »
peace Athman,

Whilst I appreciate your considered response (and I do like your posts in general) we will have to agree to disagree on this one. You have assumed for you to clarify/rebut the issues I raised requires us to discuss the meanings of other words (upon which we may differ) when that is not the case.

Islamic Duties / Re: ZAKAT
« on: July 06, 2019, 07:58:29 PM »
peace Hamzeh,

So may you kindly tell us then what is meant by "waatoo haqqahu yawma hasadihi"

I dont take it as anything other than the literal meaning:
"and give its rightful due / truthful/rightful consideration (on) day of its harvest..." (i.e. give what is right to others). There is no inherent link to zakat, this is an interpolation.

You said "By the same reasoning it would mean those in governance should establish a system of salat."

This brings up various issues. If you are implying zakat REQUIRES top-down/state governance in order to implement it, then can it be done without such? Likewise, same question for salat. For example AFAIK the people of Moses were not in authority in the land yet upheld the salat [10:87]. Of course one could argue they had simple communal governance not a state.
In any case it is rather obvious to me that if one holds the salat=prayer view then one does not require any top-down approach to uphold it. They can do it in their home by themselves. The only argument that I can see that might make some sense is that since there is very little form to salat as ritual prayer, in order to perform it coherently in a  group it would need some sort of pre-set standardisation/agreement beforehand hence a state/governance top-down approach. Of course this means every community might do it differently but I guess one could argue the basic format we have today is the one that was agreed upon during the prophet's time (or passed down from Abraham etc). Difficult to verify but I guess its possible.

peace Student,

Sorry only saw your post above today.

Based on my studies thus far it seems the lesser likely option that Muhammad was from Mecca.

You can read my view on al masjid al haram here. Even if one doesn't agree with it, it provides a checklist one can their understanding through (whatever that is):

Islamic Duties / Re: Prayer
« on: July 05, 2019, 01:43:40 AM »
peace all,


The only explicit example of sujud and salat together is 4:102, when a leader is conducting a salat for them (i.e. a group). IF your view of salat (which you call prayer) was a freeform approach (e.g. do it in your head or whatever) then imagining a coherent group version seems difficult. Think on it.


Same applies to the direction of facing while praying (2:150)... well as an expectation to join a congregation (2:43).

2:150 does not say that, it explicitly say "from wherever thou come forth / depart...", and salat is not mentioned.

By your use of 2:43 are you also implying one is to give zakat in a congregation?

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 32