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[my own personal opinion]

All please notified that, the above counter argument is just my own personal opinion. It doesn't mean I support Lewdness/Immoralities or any sort of pornography. I just want to know the truth that is masturbation really Haram or not with proper evidence. That's why, I made counter evidence against it for proper learning purpose. My humble apologies to those who get me wrong. So don't get me wrong. In the end, I'm a student & biggest Fan of Joseph A Islam

[haram]

Do u know english? Learn english first. Then try to realize someones post

This is an ad hominem attack !

Do you always insult those who disagree with you ?!

This is my last response to you. I didnt mean to attack you that way. My position was that If there is no mention of masturbation in Quran, that means it is made flexible to us. Of-course excess of anything is bad. But we also have to be careful about boundary line of transgressions. For anything to be considered haram in Islam, it must find clear, unambiguous, and unequivocal support from the Quran which is a clear book for direction. And why I cant find that sort of prohibition about masturbation I already mentioned in my arguments.

For example, speech in itself is not haram. But bad and lewd speech is haram in any sense, that doesnt mean you include music & singing in this category of haram. If you have moral sense, then you would understand what im trying to say.

Did u read my whole post? Where in my post i supported porn and porn industry? There are certain type of illiterate people who guess others comment outta nothing and make bad comments and rulings on islam. For such kind of people, islam is now questionable. You are one of them!

Of course you wouldn't openly support the porn industry ! You just support mastrubation, as if it doesn't get supplemented with pornographic imagery (whether visual or formed in the mind) !

then logically u are saying that wet dreaming is pornography and its a sin!

Do u know english? Learn english first. Then try to realize someones post

Salute @Sstikstof,

Do you lower your gaze when mastrubating (on porn) ?!

Doesn't 7:27 condemn the porn industry ?!

How is the pathetic act of mastrubation not included in 6:151, 7:33 ?!

The guilt and shame one feels thereafter ain't no meaningless coincidence.

سلام

Did u read my whole post? Where in my post i supported porn and porn industry? There are certain type of illiterate people who guess others comment outta nothing and make bad comments and rulings on islam. For such kind of people, islam is now questionable. You are one of them!

[I would like to share my argument specially to Jospeh Islam]

Salamun Alaikum,

Regarding the Topic >>> http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=821.0 I would like to share my argument specially to Jospeh Islam. All of his works really impressed me, but I personally can not agree with the topic named "Masturbation".

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EVIDENCE 1 - The expression 'lifurujihin hafizun'

In verses 23:1-7, God describes successful believers as those that have humility in their prayer (23:2), they avoid vain talk (23:3), give zakat / engage in purification works (23:4) and those who 'guard their modesty' - lifurujihin hafizun. (23:5)

A more literal understanding of the word 'farj' (plural furuj) in the expression 'lifurujihin hafizun' is a reference to the private parts of both males and females. It is a reference to the 'pudenda' (sex organ) which is considered indecent to expose.

The argument here is that this is not merely a reference to sexual intercourse but to any sexual act.

The exception of wedlock is granted where one is not considered blameworthy (ghayru malumin) 23:6. However, whoever seeks beyond that has transgressed (ada) - 23:7

I do respectfully feel that this is an important reference and must be carefully considered.

I do respect that none of us would want to make unlawful which God has not forbidden, but equally we would not want to sanction something which on deeper reflection was not within the spirit of the Quran's teaching or overarching guidance.

Of course even in grey areas, the mantra 'err on the side of caution' is quite an apt consideration especially in religious matters.

Reply:

Chapter 23: Al-Mu'menoon - Verse: 5,6,7
"Those who guard their sexual organs except with their spouses or those whom their right hands possess, they are without blame. But those who seek something beyond that are transgressors"

The translated phrase "sexual organs" is often "chastity" in many translations.

"guarding sexual organs, except with spouse" implies that a person should control his/her sexual desires (in order not to have "sex") EXCEPT with a spouse.

"Those who seek something beyond that are transgressors", relating to "raping" or using "Sexual organs" (having sexual intercourse) WITH someone else (not a spouse)... which is of-course Forbidden.

If we take "chastity" instead of "sexual organs", then it is even simpler to understand, since the word "Chastity" in any English dictionary means:

"The state or practice of abstaining from extramarital (or from all) sexual intercourse"
(that means, restricting oneself to have lawful or unlawful sexual intercourse with someone) ...which in 23:6, Allah (swt) allows a human to do so only with spouse.
The main intention of the verse is to stress that marital tie/agreement is a necessary prerequisite for sexual intercourse with someone in order to not be blameworthy and to not be a transgressor. Therefore, it cannot be related to masturbation, which is unrelated to the context of discussion.

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On the basis of verse 4:25, respite is granted to those that fear committing sin (khashiyal-anata). The sin is not described but in light of 23:5 cited above, masturbation ipso facto cannot be ruled out.

One is strongly encouraged to seek marriage and the option cited by the Quran was arguably relevant to the social context of the narrative. It is useful to remember that the expression 'fatayatikumu' is not simply a reference to slave girls but to a young woman, comrade, servant, maid etc. (fatayat is a plural of 'fatat'). This expression has only been used twice in the Quran (4:25, 24:33).

I do feel that based on the above verse, there is at least some scope to suggest that one should incline to practice self-restraint as best they can (wa-an tasbiru khayrun lakum) outside the scope of marriage.


Reply:

Indicating the above arguments, term "practice self-restraint as best they can (wa-an tasbiru khayrun lakum) outside the scope of marriage" refers to sexual intercourse with living beings. This is actually why marriage bond is recommended in Quran for the purpose of taking intercourse pleasure. Sexual desire itself is one of many bounties Allah bestows on an individual. It is both healthy and needed for enjoyment and well-being. Being another bounty of Allah, it should be perceived by every person as a miracle of Allah and to not only be accepted but also embraced. However, the instilled notion as a result of this teaching is as stated, the opposite. The effect trickles into the bedroom when they are married and can lead to inhibitions to sexual creativity, exploration and a lack of confidence to sexually express themselves and confidently enjoy sexual expressions with their husbands or wives.

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EVIDENCE 3 - Verse 6:151

In verse 6:151, the Quran talks about 'fawahisha' (transgressions / lewdness / immoralities) of what is 'zahar' (apparent) and what is 'batana' (concealed).

006:151 (part)
"... And do not go near immoralities (of) what is apparent of them and what is concealed..."

This is repeated in verse 7:33 and generally implied in verse 6:120.

007.033 (part)
Say: my Lord has only prohibited shameful deeds / lewdness (Arabic: Fawahisha), whether open or in secret / concealed..."

From my humble perspective, it is a valid question to ask what those concealed acts of transgressions / immoralities are that the Quran refers to? Even if one were to argue that the remit was vague, this does not dispense with the notion that it is arguably better to err on the side of caution on religious matters. It does appear that the verse expected its audience to know what 'concealed' transgressions were.

In this regards, a point bear noting is that it has always been Satan's will to invite human's to 'lewdness' (2:169, 2:268, 24:21) and there are many instances that one finds lewd practices being given sanction in the name of religion, such as sex with slave girls (outside wedlock), practice of 'al-azl' (coitus interruptus) with them, temporary marriage (Nikaah al-Mut'ah) et al.

However, there seems to be a general understanding of a prohibition with regards masturbation which would be a relatively easier practice involving sexual organs to sanction in the name of religion.

The above is not a lean on 'majority consensus' but to best understand what the remit of the Arabic expression 'what is hidden / concealed' (batana) entailed.

Reply:

In this verse, Fawahisha refers to clear lewdness/immoralities.

We can find the definitions of sins "fahisha" can be found in the following verses:

- "Do not marry the women who were previously married to your fathers-existing marriages are exempted, for it is a gross offense <fahisha>, and an abominable act." (4/22), Also 4/23 contains the Lower limits.

- "Lot said to his people, "You commit such an abomination <fahisha>; no one in the world has done it before!" (7/80)

- "You shall not commit adultery; it is a gross sin <fahisha>, and an evil behavior." (17/32)

So, the "obvious' sins are 1) Adultery, 2) Homosexuality, 3) Incest.

As for "hidden" sins, this is found in 4/128 where a man attempts to have intercourse with his wife from other than what GOD has allowed:

- "If a woman fears desertion or abstainment from her husband, the couple shall try to reconcile their differences, for conciliation is best for them. Selfishness is a human trait, and if you do good and lead a righteous life, GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do." (4/128)
Now, the question is what constitutes or satisfies the term "do not go near fahisha or hidden fahisha"!
Please note, generally fahisha means means lewdness or immorality which requires partner or living being & masturbation does not involve a partner. there are are other lewdness that can be applicable as minor sense. Those have two categories. Public & Hidden. Lets not talk about public as we all know about it. What is concealed lewdness are those, for eg. pornography, immoral behavior secretly with a person, hidden lewd signs/talks/even thoughts to or of other person etc. But masturbation doesn't fit these conditions.

But the fact is that, The portrayal of one's own genitals as untouchable and sinful has an indirect side-effect on growing individuals' minds by creating subconscious 'blockades' to sexual pleasure - that receiving pleasure from their bodies is at some level, inherently wrong and incorrect. It may lead to mental reluctance to acceptance of sexual pleasure and to fully surrender to the enjoyment of sexual sensations Allah bestows on them during their marital lives. Instead of embracing their bodies and the ability to enjoy sexual pleasure, this teaching promotes in building a sense of guilt for having sexual tension.

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EVIDENCE 4 - Verse 24:33

024:033
"And those who do not find (means to) marriage (able to marry), let them continue to be chaste / have restrain (walyastaʿfifi) until God enriches them from His bounty..."

Here the discussion focuses on the expression 'walyastaʿfifi' and the verb 'yasta'iffu' from the main verb 'ista'affa' which carries the literal meaning to be abstinent.

One would need to carefully consider whether masturbation would be considered permissible within the spirit of the above guidance of remaining 'yasta'iffu'?


Reply:

As stated above, the word "Chastity" in any English dictionary means:

"The state or practice of abstraining from extramarital (or from all) sexual intercourse"
(that means, restricting oneself to have lawful or unlawful sexual intercourse with someone)

Below is the real life example of a kid who is mentally depressed just because of practicing self-restraint as you have stated.

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I'm 20 years old and have a very high sex drive. Living in NY attending college everywhere I go there are people who dressed but naked. I pray 5 times a day with sunnah and attend the Masjid at least 4 times a day. I won't be able to get married for at least 4 years and by the grace of Allah(SWT) I'm still a virgin.

It's been over 2 months since I last masturbated(because i heard it was Haram from a friend and stopped) and I never watched porn/bikini mag/video/etc. I didn't then and don't intend to ever.

I know the sunnah says to fast but that's not going to work for 3 reasons. 1) I tried fasting when i fasted(even as a teen) my sex drive goes up not down, 2) If I fast I get weak and tend to lie down which causes temptation.3) since i can't get married until i finish college but can't succeed in college while fasting so I've ruled out fasting. I've tried eating the foods that were recommended but no luck in fact I've gained weight which is very concerning for me. I've always slept on the side rather than belly or back. I've have no problem waiting until marriage for sex and intend to do so.

The Qur'an verses generally quoted on the internet (17:32: "Nor come nigh to unlawful sex For it is a shameful (deed)"/24:2 "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication....").I use the Yusuf Ali Qur'an and I don't see how these are at all relavant to masturbation. In 24:2 the word used is Zina. To say zina means masturbation is a ridiculously long stretch. The scholars who say it's haram base there ruling on "silence on the issue by Allah (SWT)" but wouldn't silence mean the opposite?

When I did masturbate it was only once every other week because when I did I felt less stressed from all the bad things in the world and I used to have a big temper but when I did I was the most mellow person anyone had ever met. My father told me he is worried and says I am staring to be somewhat hostile when responding to mundane things.

Since I've stopped I've been losing sleep, getting angry, becoming tired and unhealthy and fear if continue my deen will go too. I've never had problems in the past mentally or physically. I've read and read tried every solution posted: sports/fasting/special diet/keeping busy/hanging out with pious brothers but no success only anger, frustration and now loss of faith.

Please help.

~ ihx33

Like this kid, there are many more kids & even adults who are depressed trying to get rid of masturbation totally & at last, result of some of them is turned into disbelieving & mental-diseased married life.

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Can one keep their thoughts pure at a time of self-gratification? It is one thing to quell a thought that suddenly appears in one's mind, it is arguably quite another to intentionally facilitate it.

It is useful to consider how these acts at times lead to further acts of transgression such as viewing pornography etc in situ. There is an argument that it is the seeking of such carnal desires that has also contributed to a vast gratuitous industry.

Such practices may be considered a private matter, but once we sanction this in the name of religion there is a societal consideration that needs to be made. What knock-on effect does this have?

I have received emails from genuine readers who seek to control what they call is 'their addiction' to pornography which they describe is a tool they use for self-gratification. They have found that what started as a carefree, innocent enjoyment has progressed into a serious perversion.

Some perversions include making use of household items and even transportation.

There was even a question of whether animals could be used as the Quran does not expressly forbid sex with animals!

Therefore I know this is real problem for some people.

A couple of verses are key to note in this regard.

"...and do not follow the footsteps of the Satan. Indeed he is your open enemy (2:168), for he only commands you what is evil and shameful / indecent (fahshai) and that you should say of God that of which you have no knowledge (2:169)"

Reply:

We all know that bad thinking or thoughts are wrong. But it has argumentative areas that which is pointing to bad thinking. At the time of arousal if thinking is such evil that can not be described with moral sense, then blame goes to evil thoughts of the person. Please be notified that, thoughts can be controlled even while masturbating.
In general sense, While masturbating, the general kind of fantasy thinking is harmless as it does not hurt anyone, so this can not be sinful as we all do fantasy thinking during walking, sleeping, pastime etc. The issue here is that can not be transgressed. As you have stated that, "It is useful to consider how these acts at times lead to further acts of transgression such as viewing pornography etc in situ". I humbly believe, this means drawing a border before pornography can be considered without sinful.

On conclusion, If touching our own bodies in a certain way was Haram, then Allah (swt) would have been more specific [about "Masturbation"]. -(just like all other things that are Haram). In one way, it is rather helpful for Muslims, since once done, NO evil thoughts would arise in the mind for many hours (naturally).

Self exploration / masturbation can lead to better understanding of one's body. For instance, a woman having understood the rhythm, pressure and her spots is in a better position to guide her husband to what pleases her most.

Modern medicine also considers masturbation safe and normal:

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Masturbation is not bad

Masturbation is perfectly healthy activity. We are not against masturbation, we are only against excessive masturbation. Masturbation is even good for you in many ways, for example

    It relieves you of all the tension so you can focus better on your studies, work
    Makes you calmer and far more less aggressive
    You will probably never have headache if you are a frequent masturbator
    Can be effective against certain diseases and medical conditions such as tension
    Help reduce crimes
    Is over all healthy and is natural need of the body and also give you great pleausure
    Above all it is a sign of good health.

If you are masturbating once in a while or once every other day, there is nothing to worry about. If you doing it for reason you should be doing it for, that is when it become more harmful and addictive. If you masturbate 3 times a day in one day, that is totally ok. As long as your body needs it, the harmful effects are really none. But when the body does not need and you push it for reasons because you are lonely and you just have to masturbate, that is when it become harmful. To fully understand the harmful effects of masturbation please click on the following link Harmful effects of masturbation
Excessive Masturbation is bad

We are against excessive masturbation. We think if you indulge in masturbation for not good enough reason for a long time and you regularly practice it, it might cause you in serious trouble. I understand this view is against medical science but I have to stick with it because I witnessed it first hand. The type of masturbation that can get you in serious trouble is, mostly all of these

    You do not have friends
    You always indulge with yourself
    You do not feel the need to mingle with others. You are your own best friend
    You masturbate when ever you get a chance
    You create situations for yourself in order to masturbate
    You try new techniques because the old ones got boring
    You do it just because you can't fall asleep or you are alone
    You dont feel the need for a relationship just because you are happy with yourself. You are always satisfied
    You do it once or twice a day every day
    You can't skip a single day without masturbation, or can hardly skip
    There is no end of it that you can ever stop it
    You never get bored with because you continue to change your fantasies

    This type of masturbation can put you in serious trouble such as bending of penis, shrinkage of penis, premature ejaculation, lower back pain, reduced reaction, loss of sexual pleasure because your orgasm become week. Above all it affects your real relationship with opposite sex. You feel you are not enough for them. Things like premature ejaculation can put a severe dent in your relationship depending on how serious it is. I have discuss all of this on various pages.

[So what is your suggestion? Is this religious or not?]

Most of the Tableeghi Jamaat people keep the Trouzer, Paint & all wear to keep it above the Ankle. This
tradition dates back to our prophet's time when the wealthy Arabs use to wear long Topes/ Trouzers which were so low to sweap the earth on which our Prophet asked them to keep the trouser/ Tope above ankle. Taking this saying of prophet the Ulma ask the fellow Muslims to wear above ankle. This
custom is for Muslim males and not applicable to Muslim Wemen.

So what is your suggestion? Is this religious or not?

Thanks for clarification

[trousers/pants above ankle]

I have seen rulings on wearing trousers/pants above ankle in Most of the cases. Most of them consider it as haram to wear these below ankle. Even in salat, muslims do that. So, anyone please tell me whats the view from Quran about this issue?

Thanks

[life threatening]

Thanks for the reply. What if the life threatening situation occurs or for the purpose of defend(life threatening) your own relative? In that case lying permissible except of migration?

Salamun Alaikum,

Can anyone tell me exactly when or in what circumstances, lying is permissible by the Quran. If this would be life/death issue or cause of one's defensive purpose, at that moment is lying acceptable except migration to another place?

[Maghrib prayer]

Can verse 30:17 refers Maghrib prayer (Entering upon Evening)? (tum'sūna - تُمْسُونَ) or Maghrib and Isha both???

This is a loaded question.

To my knowledge, the Qurān does not support the (sunni) "5 namaz per day" tradition. Your question presumes it does ! Also, to my scrutiny, the qurānic noun sloh (صلوه) does not denote "prayer" — at least not in 22:40.

سلامـ

Your theology is absolutely wrong. May be you are quranist that I assume. Please see the below article for more info.
http://quransmessage.com/pdfs/The%20Five%20Prayers.pdf

Please be notified that This is a Quran-Centric Forum. To know about Quran-Centric Position Please see the below article,
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/330796700390797

[And to Wakas this is the reply for you from us both,]

And to Wakas this is the reply for you from us both,
http://quransmessage.com/critiques/Response%20to%20Wakas.htm

If this is also your reply, then I challenge you to a debate on free-minds.org/forum wherein you will have to defend the above article - and for every logical fallacy, assumption, baseless assertion etc I highlight you agree to donate $10 to charity. If there is disagreement on any point I make, the forum will vote and decide.

Do you accept my challenge?

LOL! Salamun Alaikum. Chill Dude, First, the above response through the article is not from me personally. Reply was mainly from Joseph Islam what seems to me most logical reply in the whole world that I can trust above all research. Why is it logical, because of GOD gifted sense about  making decisions. Your article is also correct, but most issues are not that correct which was covered by Joseph Islam. With his reply, there is no argumentation left to discuss personally from me. And personally i am not that eligible person to do debate as im still learning issues of Quran. I didn't make previous post to hurt you but point you where is the actual gap of misconception of Salat directives which even weak student like me can realize. If you are really upset, then my apologies is always to you & my intention was not like that you are assuming.

Thanks for making clear wakas