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Salamin alaikum thanks all of you for replying my sentiments. We should enhance and publicize our unity and view and specially misconceptions of others for the sake of practicing correct religion. I'm not so familiar with how joseph Islam himself does so many efforts to spread this view outside of this website. But I think media is necessarily and we should not sit here at future. So that I personally can at least point someone easily that "look you were wrong and here is the proof". That's just because psychologically noone willing to read rather than love to watch and learn.

[My humble apologies to all forum members as my knowledge was weak before that results of posting many arguments which went against many thoughts in here. Later I researched by myself & found matching. I passed through so many difficult situations in my personal life because of some sunni scholars only. Some say this, some say that, so many confusing opinions all around me grabbed my brain pretty bad that resulted confused opinions as output. Sometimes I decided to read quran by myself & re-build my religion with perfection. But for proper understanding someone needs to know arabic language which i don't know. that is where the lacking of mine. In the end, for Arabic interpretation, i gotta grab someone. I found at last joseph Islam's website so reliable. Thanks to all of you including Joseph Islam.]

My humble apologies to all forum members as my knowledge was weak before that results of posting many arguments which went against many thoughts in here. Later I researched by myself & found matching. I passed through so many difficult situations in my personal life because of some sunni scholars only. Some say this, some say that, so many confusing opinions all around me grabbed my brain pretty bad that resulted confused opinions as output. Sometimes I decided to read quran by myself & re-build my religion with perfection. But for proper understanding someone needs to know arabic language which i don't know. that is where the lacking of mine. In the end, for Arabic interpretation, i gotta grab someone. I found at last joseph Islam's website so reliable. Thanks to all of you including Joseph Islam.

[tear]

Farj (plural: Furuwj) = a Tear.
a – a Tear in a Fortress wall = Farj.
b – the Private parts of the human = Farj.

I.e. Because Farj means 'tear', a Poet of Arabic may refer to it as a weakness of the enemies 'fortress' (a tear in the enemies fortresses walls), and also at the weakness  of an enemies Private parts.Because a fort protects you, but if it has a tear in it, you are weak and open to attack, similarly if someones private parts are exposed – they are also weak and exposed to desire or harm.
This is one of the literary tools God uses in the Quran to describe the good believers who are successful;
Those who guard their Furuwj (tear[weakness]/private parts) – (Quran Ma'aarij 70:29)
As if He is telling us; your Furuwj are a 'tear' (physically), but also as a weakness in your bodily fortress. So don't let your spiritual enemy (spiritual - of, relating to, or affecting the human spirit or soul as opposed to material or physical things.) – do not let them target your weakness of sexual desire. Otherwise you may lose your fortress and your religion in the process.

Thanks 

[single chain & multiple chain]

Thanks for the reply. 

Can you please tell me what is single chain & multiple chain of hadith?

[completely submissive with showing humiliation by falling the head down.]

Unfortunately, it seems you have missed my point - there may be no fall to begin with.

Your original post was an either/or logical fallacy.


In any case, you seem to be saying: if we take it as a literal physical fall, then is the chosen meaning of SJD as prostration to the chin or forehead?

Quran clearly says chin.

An interesting question to then ponder is would you be perfectly comfortable doing prostration to the chin personally, and in the company of others? If one is hesitant or the answer is no, then that might be worrying considering Quran seems to imply it is perfectly fine, and it would be one of very few explicitly approved physical manifestations of how to SJD.

And I take your opinion, actually the verse is not indicating prostrate on chins. It is a phrase. In out language, It means to be completely submissive with showing humiliation by falling the head down. Its like the phrase "cats & dogs". I hope you would understand. Cant have better word in English.

[expert]

You are expert of complicating religion that i have acknowledged. Im not that smart to answer your alien/non-realizable interpretations.
I only seek easy way as Quran is easy to learn. Context of the verse is saying as what Aha said,
This form is not necessary, the word itself has different meanings.

Quran 17:107-109
Say, "Believe in it or do not believe. Indeed, those who were given knowledge before it - when it is recited to them, they fall upon their faces in prostration,
And they say, "Exalted is our Lord! Indeed, the promise of our Lord has been fulfilled."
And they fall upon their faces weeping, and the Qur'an increases them in humble submission.

Salamun alaikum. Thanks for beautiful speech. I remember this was a post when I got zero knowledge about Quran and hadith. I remember I strived a lot and faced so many critical situations socially ti convince myself. It was so much short period i think i forced these vast knowledge put into my mind that cause sometimes mental stresses. Yet I believe im 80 percent convinced. Just got little doubt about tawatur related sunnahs. I saw javed Ahmed ghamidis lectures as I know Hindi and Urdu pretty much. He said Quran and tawatur sunnah practices are compulsory to be followed as fixed form. Otherwise, you will be sinful. And here, im watching that tawatur sunnah got no religious authority by itself. In this point, im still confused who to believe actually. Again thanks for supporting.

Who is in authority here in the absence of joseph islam?

It was a libas related thread.....   

[But]

It's not as simple as that.

The phrase in 17:107 "fall to the chin SJD" is seen by most as an idiom, describing the manner of the SJD.

The idiom "fall to the chin" (as also used in 17:109) means with extreme humility. Quote:

Professor Mustansir Mir in "Verbal Idioms of The Quran", cites "fall to the chin" as a verbal idiom implying extreme humility, for the chin represents pride, it is something to be held high, and to fall down on one's chin is to abase oneself, and when used in The Quran means to humble oneself before God, and cites Classical Arabic poem by Imru al-Qays about how mighty trees were humbled by a strong downpour of rain, and they "fell to the chin". It is unlikely a tree would actually fall down due to a heavy downpour of rain, but it is possible to take it as a physicall fall.

Source.

Thanks for the info, But
We aint talking about how to fall on prostration, rather we are talking about how to do prostration after falling. This is the difference. Question was after falling will it be forehead or just chin!

[is]

Salaam all,

I am sure that you have all read Joseph's article regarding covering.

Taking all the verses into consideration, I hold the view that the hair is part of a woman's zeenat and should be covered..not strictly every strand though and not only with a headscarf as hats would suffice too.

In order to take into consideration the many different cultural dresses, the Quran doesn't stipulate a particular style of clothing.

So what I understand is that the clothing should not be tight, arms and legs should be covered but 3/4 sleeves would be acceptable too. A must would be some sort of additional covering for the bosom. Also if you were to wear western dress then long tops that cover the bottom would be required in order to fulfill the instruction and jeans etc should not be tight fitting.

regarding head cover, I see middle of this article expresses very logical approach. Please check, http://www.quranicpath.com/misconceptions/hijab_niqab.html

Thanks for clarification

Can you prove that 4 witness is required also for 24:2 in context?