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Messages - w3bcrowf3r

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16
General Discussions / Re: Punishment in the grave
« on: March 16, 2019, 07:05:12 PM »
Dear Brother Joseph
Salamun Alaikum ,
Brother  I have gone through your article " Punishment in Grave " and understand that there is no mention of such type of punishment before the day of resurrection . Sometimes Many Muslims Quote the verse ( 102:1 )  from Sura AT TAKA SUR " AL HAKU MUTTAKA SURU HATTA JURUTU mulma quber " Here I got "Quber" means after the die . not specifically meaning that the place where any one is buried .
If translate in English it mean grave . So the meaning of the verse stand " you will know the truth soon  after the die (grave ?) . Then you see hell "   My question how you will explain this verse in the proof of no punishment in the grave ?

My understanding is since , for all on the Day of Judgement everybody will feel that they just have slept for an hour or a part of the day so God can say in His verse that  it should be a very short time that one will see the hell . 

Please make me clear of the above verse .

I advice you to read the Quran in the Light of your supplication of God giving you the right understanding, instead of by reading it through the glasses of what people said about Muhammad and God and the Quran.
This way you wont read the Quran with predefined doctrines. You will read it with clean eyes.
Let the Quran explain itself. It's fully detailed and a guide for the believers.

17
General Discussions / Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« on: March 14, 2019, 08:18:46 AM »
Good reply w3bcrowf3r :)

Are you Dutch?!

18
peace,

Thanks for clarifying. Still don't really see the connection with 5:3.

In any case I consider what bro Duster said as valid, in the sense that his opinion is possible. However the evidence for it is flimsy in my opinion.

On the one hand The Quran has a very strong anti-idolatry message, yet on the other hand we know many practices (particularly those associated with Traditional Hajj rituals/relics) are strongly associated with idolatrous/pagan practices of the time. Seems polar opposites to me, but each to their own.

What kind of practices in the Quran about Pilgrimage were being performed in the time when Mecca was still worshiping idols?

19
The calendar is a luni-solar calendar? Ramadan is in July when there is a scorching heat, and the 3 other holy months follow after Ramadan? The calendar we the Arabs follow given by Omar is wrong ( we couldn't trust him anyways)?

20
General Discussions / We should follow a luni-solar calendar?
« on: March 12, 2019, 09:21:22 PM »
How can we follow a luni calendar? This contradicts: http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=12&verse=47#(12:47:1)

If it's luni only, the verse has an error. Or is it the current luni only calendar that is in error?
Because in 7 years, according to a luni calendar, u can't harvest anymore due to the seasons. Harvesting "7 years" according to a luni only calendar will take more then 7 years since you will need to wait for the seasons, because the current calendar moves every year 1 month.

There are a lot of other verses which are very clear about using the sun and the moon. Such as 10:5, which says it literally.

21
General Discussions / Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« on: March 12, 2019, 08:16:36 PM »
Peace

It is true that the Quran does not directly with one verse indicate that Masjid Al Haram is located in Mecca but does give the most possible support that is it in Mecca through the whole message of the Quran and definitely does not give any evidence directly or indirectly otherwise.

Belivers will not always know everything perfectly and with certainty but are directed to take the best possible meanings and interpretations as I already know you know.

39:18 Those who listen to the Word, and follow the best (meaning) in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided, and those are the ones endued with understanding.

Hope you find this article helpful.

Peace

IS MAKKAH THE ORIGINAL LOCATION FOR THE MASJID AL-HARAM?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/original sanctuary FM3.htm

An English translation of the Quran - 48:24 And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do. 48:25 They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the Restricted Temple, and barred your donations from reaching their destination. And there had been believing men and believing women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have incurred a sin unknowingly. God will admit into His mercy whoever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those from them who rejected with a painful retribution.

22
General Discussions / Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« on: March 12, 2019, 08:15:24 PM »
peace,

...the masjid al-haraam is in Mecca according to the Quran.

Evidence please.

An English translation of the Quran - 48:24 And He is the One who withheld their hands against you, and your hands against them in the interior of Mecca, after He had made you victorious over them. God is Seer of what you do. 48:25 They are the ones who rejected and barred you from the Restricted Temple, and barred your donations from reaching their destination. And there had been believing men and believing women whom you did not know, and you may have hurt them, and on whose account you would have incurred a sin unknowingly. God will admit into His mercy whoever He wills. Had they become separated, We would then have punished those from them who rejected with a painful retribution.

23
An English translation of the Quran - 9:37 Know that the use of the additional month causes an increase in rejection, for it is used by those who have rejected that they may misguide with it by making it lawful one year, and forbidden one year, so as to circumvent the count of what God has made restricted; thus they make lawful what God has made forbidden. Their evil works have been adorned for them, and God does not guide the rejecting people.

They made the first month one of the holy months and removed Ramadan from the four holy months. Thus they make it lawful what is forbidden one year. The next year they make forbidden what is lawful!!
For those who don't know. They make Muharram forbidden and part of the four Holy months, the first month according to the current Arabic calendar. They removed the (9th) month Ramadan, from being part of the four Holy months.
I learned from the Quran that the last four months to perform Hadj in of the year are the Holy months. Starting from Ramadan, until Dhul Hidjah.

24
General Discussions / Re: "Muhammad was not from Mecca" by Sam Garrans
« on: March 09, 2019, 11:06:58 AM »
Watch out for those anti-Meccans. If you pay attention, the masjid al-haraam is in Mecca according to the Quran. These people say that it is somewhere else etc.

Go learn Arabic and stop making the same mistake. Read on your own. Instead of making the same mistake twice. First you were listening to the "imams" and now you are listening to people like Sam, Rashad, Edip etc.

25

Umm i am not going to believe what wikipedia said about this.. Why would God in the Quran allow us to do something that was pre-islamic and idolatry..

I probably are the hills that Hagar was running between to find water for Ishmael when they were in the desert.

Who said anything about Wikipedia? I gave you an article from this site ....

And as to your question about why would Allah allow something that was pre-Islamic? Simple ... He is concerned with the 'purpose'. Worshipping around the Kaaba was also a pre-Islamic practice with idolatry.. but the process was 'cleaned up' and was allowed but in Allah's name alone ... So don't agree with your point ..

Worshipping God through the Kaaba doesn't have a polytheistic origin. The Israelites worship God through their 'Kaaba'/Tabernacle.


26
Analysis from Quran: source.

2:158 Indeed, the safa1 and the marwah2 are from the markers/tokens (sha3air)3 of God, so whoever did HaJJ 4 (at/of) the shelter/house5 or enlivened/visited6 there is no blame/error on him that he go amongst by/at them both7 and whoever volunteered good/better8 then God is Appreciative, Knowing.

1 - root: Sad-Fa-Waw. See Project Root List to read about possible meanings for given roots in this article.
2 - root: Miim-Ra-Waw.
3 - root: Shiin-Ayn-Ra. The root meanings and Quran usage suggest the word describes things/tokens/symbols/markers/practices (usually to do with sustenance/benefit) that have a deeper significance, i.e. help make us aware of something (e.g. God and His beneficience). Honouring such "sha3air" can indicate "taqwa" (forethoughtfulness/conscientiousness/piety) of the hearts, and can provide opportunity to be thankful and/or magnify God for what He has guided you - see 5:2, 22:32, 22:36-37.
4 - root: Ha-Jim-Jim. Note the perfect/past tense implies one could have done "HaJJ" but not necessarily encountered "safa" and "marwah" yet, meaning they are not compulsory aspects of "HaJJ" (or "umrah") but are accessible secondary to it. Also if they were an intrinsic part of "al HaJJ" then there would be no need to state "there is no blame on him that he should go about/amongst them". This is further reinforced by the imperfect tense "ttawwaf" which follows. As a side note, some Traditional commentators also mention this point.
5 - root: Ba-Ya-Ta. It principally means to reach the night or spend the night in and "bayt" is that place. It can be used for any structure that is utilised for such a purpose. Thus, "bayt" is closer to shelter as the conceptual meaning and within that meaning is the house. In this context it refers to the locality/region/area, wherein "al hajj" is being held, and is thus acting as a shelter/house for the people. This will be further discussed later.
6 - root: Ayn-Miim-Ra. Also perfect/past tense.
7 - root: Tay-Waw-Fa. Note it says "ttawwaf bi" which is the exact same phrase in 22:29 (involving the ancient/noble shelter/house / "al bayt al 3tiq") which most commentators take to mean "circuit" but they do not take it to mean "circuit" here. Some may argue that since there are two objects here, going to and fro is the implied meaning here rather than "circuit".
8 - the phrase "whoever volunteered good/better" is likely related to what came before, i.e. "no blame on him that he go about them". Interestingly, if it is taken as "whoever volunteered better", as I feel the implication is, then this can only mean: better than "going about/amongst safa and marwah". The obvious question then is: what is better?

2:158 clearly indicates there is a difference between HaJJ and i'tamara/visited (commonly translated as "umrah").

The additional information we have extracted about "safa" and "marwah" is as follows, which may help narrow down the possible meanings:
1) other occurrences of "sha3air of God" refer to provision of sustenance/food by means of the animals, thus they could be related to that
2) they are accessible to those who did HaJJ or visited the house/shelter, but are secondary to it
3) it is possible some might mistakenly assign blame if one goes about them or one going about them could think they are doing something negative/wrong
4) it may be possible to volunteer better than going amongst them

When we look at CAD "al safa" can refer to the animals which give much milk (said of she-camel/sheep/goat), and "al marwah" can refer to a stone where a cooking fire is started or on which an animal is slaughtered. If we opt for these meanings then the one going about them in 2:158 would be consuming food, not providing it. If so, this makes it easy to understand why this could be thought of as a negative, i.e. someone at this location could take advantage of such offerings/availability and consume aplenty without giving in return. This would also help explain why it says "whoever volunteered better" because providing food is better than consuming it, and this may tie in with verses such as 2:196 which discusses giving an offering/gift (e.g. an animal to be used for food provision). This is also the case for one who did HaJJ because even though doing HaJJ involves providing food for others, one could still consume more than they gave.
If we do choose this meaning, then we may need to consider why animals of milking are not discussed under the ordinary food to give/feed others with for one undertaking the HaJJ and this may be because it is more difficult for one to do, as the timing needs to be right for a female animal to give milk, e.g. shortly after them giving birth. Giving an animal for slaughter is much easier.
There are other possibilities for these words from CAD, e.g. "al safa" can mean "the palm tree heavy with fruit", "al marwah" can mean "a type of fragrant tree".

A plausible interpretation of "no blame on him that he go about them" is that this phrase is often used in AQ to discuss an exception/modification to the recommendation/rule/principle (e.g. 2:229, 2:282, 4:101, 4:102, 24:29, 24:58, 24:60), thus could refer to an exception, e.g. regarding slaughtering of animals on a stone (as this may be misconstrued as a throwback to idolatrous practice, see 5:3), or "marwah" can mean a stone from which blades are made even though there is no hunting or fighting in this period, or sightseeing of unique/stone landmarks at such a location could be mistaken for their veneration. Volunteering good/better in this case would be to help out at the event rather than sightseeing perhaps.

There seems to be insufficient evidence, as per Quran, to definitively deduce the meaning of "safa" and "marwah", however we should bear in mind that whatever they are the implication is that they are not critical/compulsory aspects for one who did "HaJJ" or visited.

Ty for your response. In a root dictionary online, arabtools, it said that alsafwa walmarwah are stones?

Yeah i am probably going to let them. It's better to accept that i don't know something when it's not compulsory. We could have done it by Gods will if we were living in the time of the Messenger because he knew what it meant.

I was just curious if someone found out what they are according to the Quran.

27
Shalom / peace

The following article states:
http://quransmessage.com/articles/makkah%20bakkah%20FM3.htm

Quote
Furthermore, despite the popular Muslim belief, there is also no evidence in the Quran that Safa and Marwah refer to hills, which once again only seems to provide a possible conduit to support the Biblical Abraham-Hagar narrative. There is no support for this narrative in the Quran.

Quote
Safa and Marwah have only been mentioned in the Quran as a place where there were 'symbols' (sha'airi) of God (Not necessarily connected with Prophet Abraham). (pbuh) These were sites that the Pre-Islamic Arab community were familiar with and circumambulation of them was allowable if desired.

The story of Hagar running to find water isn't connected to Safa and Marwah in the Qur'an.....

Umm i am not going to believe what wikipedia said about this.. Why would God in the Quran allow us to do something that was pre-islamic and idolatry..

I probably are the hills that Hagar was running between to find water for Ishmael when they were in the desert.

28
I read the Torah and it mentioned the story about Hagar and Ishmael in detail about her running to find water until the Angel of God came and made the water come from the ground for them. But in the Quran i couldn't find what the Safwa and alMarwah mean or are? Can someone help? How would we suppose to know this by using the Quran alone? Or should we just accept it that we use history for this topic? On wikipedia it says they are the two hills which Hagar was running between to search for water.

29
Islamic Duties / Re: Fasting during Ramadan
« on: February 27, 2019, 10:50:10 PM »
Hello,
   I had a question regarding Ramadan. Of course it is a time to abstain from food/drink and try to become the best version of yourself (reading Quran, praying, etc.), but my question pertains to the actual fasting. What else are we supposed to abstain from besides food/drink  (for example, do we have to abstain from cussing, sexual practices, etc.)? Also, what is the purpose of waiting till sunset/night to break fast; this is something I have always wondered about. Is there a particular reason given in the Quran or is this just something ordained on us?

thanks

The month Ramadan is about reading the Quran. Abstaining from food/drinking and sex throughout the day helps us staying focused on the Holy Month which is about reading the Quran and coming closer to God through it. I advice you to do a word for word study on Ramadan and fasting in the Quran.

30
Islamic Duties / Re: How i learned to pray from the Quran..
« on: February 04, 2019, 07:29:50 PM »

I think 11:114 is talking about parts of the day and not the edges. And about the night prayer, i think there is the standard one, from sunset to darkness. And if you want to pray more in the night, you can pray longer. There are multiple verses about this.

Previously you enquired about knowledge of Arabic. One wonders what the point of having knowledge of Arabic is if one is ultimately going to disregard the Arabic.

Each to their own.

There were who saw Muhammad with their own eyes and knew Arabic who didn't grasp the Quran. If you want to pray 5 times, then that's between you and God, i pray 3 times. If we both believe we learned it from the Quran and nothing but the Quran, then may God accept it from us. We already know that we fall short at the moment, and that we should rely on the grace of God. Anyways, may your prayers be blessed and fruitful.

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