Topics

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1419932781477178


002.201
"Our Lord! Give us good in this world and good in the Hereafter and save us from the torment of the Fire!"

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1419791808157942


SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH MINORS - A HEINOUS SUGGESTION


This short video may prove difficult viewing so please be kindly aware. The discussion is between a traditionalist and a Quran-focused gentleman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gfSkragdAg

To provide evidence for the need of the Hadith corpus as an authorised religious source, the traditionalist in the video even goes as far as to claim that on its own reading, the Quran would not prohibit sexual intercourse with a 5 years old. In my humble view, this is an unwarranted, outrageous and preposterous assertion against the Quran's position.

He claims: "If you just read the Quran, it would be halal to have sexual intercourse with a 5 year old" [53 seconds].

Please can I strongly suggest that if you have not already, please kindly read the following article [1] below where I have contended with such an unwarranted suggestion dealing with verse 65:4, This may assist to provide a counter argument, if such an assertion is made to you by a traditionalist or otherwise.

I hope this helps, God willing


REFERENCE:

[1] DOES VERSE 65:4 PROVIDE CONSENT TO CONSUMMATE A MARRIAGE WITH A FEMALE MINOR?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/verse%2065-4%20FM3.htm

RELATED:

[2] WAS AYESHA REALLY A CHILD BRIDE? - MARRIAGEABLE AGE FROM THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/ayesha%20age%20FM3.htm
[3] NIKAAH - THE CONTRACT OF MARRIAGE
http://quransmessage.com/articles/nikaah%20FM3.htm
[4] FACEBOOK POST 493
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/320507234753077

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1418992868237836


MY HUMBLE ADVICE REGARDING ARABIC AND PRAYER

It is arguably an undeniable fact that Prophets Abraham, Moses, David, Jesus and all the messengers before Prophet Muhammad and after Prophet Abraham prayed in a language other than Arabic / in their own native tongues [1]. It is also an undeniable fact that a vast portion of the Quran is itself a translation (i.e. translation of speech from antiquity and other species / God's creations into Arabic so that the primary audience of the Quran could understand the message).

However, in no particular order, I would humbly share the following as summary points to the title of the post:

1. I would separate the concept of 'congregational' prayer [standard agreed form and utterance] with 'private' prayer [standard agreed form with standard and supererogatory utterances]. As you will note below, both can have a slightly nuanced approach.

2. I would strongly advise those brought up in 'Muslim' households (or where Islam is practiced from birth), to make it an absolute duty to teach Quranic Arabic along with its recitation. The misery and or impact of 'blind rote learning' can never be underestimated [2]. The goal should at least be to teach the meanings of the Quranic Arabic words to aid recital. The Quran often repeats a lot of words and it is surprising how few words have to be learnt to cover over 80% of the Quran. There is a plethora of material online and with technological advancements and ubiquity; the avenues to learning have become far easier to access than they were arguably a generation ago. Therefore, those parents with young children, the process should start immediately whilst their children's minds are extremely receptive to learning new languages and adept at absorbing new information.

3. In native English speaking countries, I would still advise the congregations to retain Arabic for congregational prayer as the lingua franca. This is because that despite any public sermon (Khutbah) being in English (advisable), the congregation prayer is quite likely to attract worshippers from diverse backgrounds. Therefore, a common 'religious' language should always preferably remain the standard for congregations. This takes care of the recital of passages in the original Quranic Arabic and retains the incentive / need for worshippers to learn the language and its meanings. This also applies to Arabic speaking nations as those who are from such nations know very well that spoken / regional / dialectical Arabic differs much between each other and Quranic Arabic. If the language is completely alien, then language aids should be encouraged / used to understand meaning.

4. Private prayers can be mixed and along with Quranic recitation, one should also be encouraged to beseech their Lord in a language that is native to them within the prayer routine. This maintains relevance and spiritual connection. There is no harm in my humble view for a prayer in such an instance to become multilingual.

5. Those that enter the folds of Islam and do not understand Arabic should not be unduly coerced to maintain their utterances in Arabic which given their age, might be difficult to grasp. The distinctions in point [1] above should be made clear and they should be encouraged to learn as many meanings of Quranic Arabic words as possible, whilst retaining the fluidity to be able to beseech their Lord in a language they are most comfortable in, particularly in private prayer.


REFERENCES:

[1] DO WE HAVE TO PRAY IN ARABIC?
http://quransmessage.com/.../do%20we%20have%20to%20pray%20in%...
[2] THE MISERY OF BLIND ROTE LEARNING[/color]
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/413530532117413

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1418880161582440


WAS RITUAL PRAYER A PRACTICE INVENTED LATER?

As per some claims within the Quran focused groups, there is absolutely no historical proof that a mass invention of ritual prayer ever took place which introduced this practice into Muslim thought. The latter claim is the focus of the short article below.


REFERENCE:

[1] WAS RITUAL PRAYER A PRACTICE INVENTED LATER?
http://quransmessage.com/articl.../invented%20prayer%20FM3.htm

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1418160578321065&id=100003814101226


THE ASSERTION THAT 'THE QURAN REQUIRES NO OTHER SOURCE FOR INTERPRETATION' WITHOUT EXCEPTION IS FALSE

Those that claim otherwise, must answer the following two simple questions with intellectual honesty:

1. How does one then find the meanings of Quranic words / grammar constructs - syntax / semantics as the Quran is not a lexicon or dictionary?

2. How does one then understand words in the Quran that have only been used once in the entire Scripture (hapax legomenons)? Example: "Mikaeel " (2:98);  "Al-Tara'ib" (86:7); "Eid" (5:114)?

One simply cannot interact with a dictionary or lexicon and then uphold the notion that the Quran requires 'nothing else ' for interpretation without exception.


REFERENCES:

[1] TWO CRUCIAL DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE 'QURANIST' (ISM) AND 'QURAN-CENTRIC' APPROACH
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/542672849203180
[2] DIALOGUE BETWEEN A SUNNI AND A QURAN ALONE MUSLIM
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2328.msg12193#msg12193

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1417592788377844


FACEBOOK POSTS WITH DIRECT QM FORUM LINKS

Dear All,

As-salamu alaykum

Please kindly note that going forward, Facebook posts will have an accompanying individual thread created on the QM Forum to enable any potential Q&As with regards the specific post.

This is to enable those that do not make use of Facebook to engage in appropriate discourse / related Q&As in relation to the post. It is also intended to provide those who make use of Facebook an opportunity to do the same, if it is their desire.

A direct link will be shared on each post going forward.

Of course, the complete Facebook posts database to date (from 2012) can be found in the link below:
http://quransmessage.com/(9)%20Facebook/Shared/fbmainlinksFM2.htm

Regards,
Joseph

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1417319491738507


THE WEAKNESS OF QURAN FOCUSED GROUPS

Let there be no doubt, that there are interpretations within the Quran focused groups which are so polarised, that they could for all intent and purposes, be following different religions.

For example, if one believes in ritual salaat prescribed by the Quran, and the other does not, this is not a trifling difference of opinion. This is a fundamental difference in religion. If one believes in abstinence of food and drink during Ramadan and another does not, this is a fundamental difference in religion. If one believes in the angels as a separate creation of God with awareness, and another simply as natural forces, this is a fundamental difference in religion.

Let us not be fooled. At times the Quran movement is so disparate, disjointed and disunited - even on fundamentals, that it can become a focus of ridicule even by the genuine critic.

To make the Quran based approach a powerful alternative to the traditionalist approach, it will have to unite under the canopy of commonly held principles and beliefs. A movement spearheaded towards a focused goal underpinned by commonly agreed religious precepts.

The Quran was never intended to be a 'free for all' with interpretations so diverse that no community could reasonably be expected to base their social and legal frameworks on it. The Quran is not simply a personal textbook for the individual. It is a guidance intended to allow a community based religion to flourish.

I would strongly advise brothers and sisters to coalesce around stable interpretations with a view to become a cogent viable alternative to the traditional thought process.


REFERENCES:

[1] MY BELIEFS IN A NUTSHELL
https://m.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/499283410208791
[2] QURAN-CENTRISM
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2622

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1416375901832866


REMAINING INTELLECTUALLY HONEST WITH THE QURAN. THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION

Despite the Quran favouring an egalitarian lean to a primary Arab audience where arguably the societal tilt was in parts oppressive and unjust, there is no escaping the fact that the Quran also provides a religious remit in which it expects its adherents to operate.

It is my humble view, that if one feels the following is unacceptable from either a moral / philosophical / practical or religious standpoint and a true God would never have instituted these religious boundaries, then it is far more intellectually honest to dismiss the religion in the Quran as errant than to attempt to dissect and wrought the Quran by misrepresenting it to conform to one's worldviews. In the end, the Quran makes no compulsion in religion after it has made its narratives clear.

[1] The Quran rejects any physical intimacy outside the confines of holy matrimony (the sacred covenant of wedlock) which it accepts as lawful between a man and a woman. Any sexual pursuits by any gender outside this restricted ambit are considered a transgression by the Quran.

[2] In the confines of a household, the Quran places huge weight and the 'primary' burden to ensure financial responsibility, maintenance, fairness, justice and accountability on the shoulders of men. The Quran thus espouses a 'broadly' patriarchal approach to how it views an ideal familial structure should operate. However, this does not mean 'male domination' or a lack of compassion/justice. The Quran also brings forth rights to protect the interests of women (rights to inheritance / property/ earnings / opportunities / marital rights et al) which women have often been deprived of in many cultures today and of yore.

[3] The Quran expects its adherents to uphold certain rituals as part of worship. They should not be dismissed or 'read out' of the Quran by new-fangled interpretations without warrant.

[4] The Quran places great emphasis on justice and mercy. It also places great emphasis on exemplary punishments to be meted out as deterrents. This is with a view to avoid the proliferation of anarchy, lewdness/hedonism and general corruption (including the severance of legitimate rights), becoming the norm as part of society. The Quran makes it clear that powerful nations have been utterly decimated when a society reaches this point of transgression and there is no change in God's approach to destruction when the conditions of wantonness are met.

Of course, I have too at times, wrestled with narratives from the Quran and it has never always been easy to set aside my own modern biases / sensibilities when interpreting the Quran. However, to exercise as much fairness as one can muster during any exegesis, it is also true that one must allow the Quran to speak.

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1413603712110085


SENTIMENT

Never be afraid of asking questions others are afraid to ask...

[Direct Facebook Link:]

Direct Facebook Link:

https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1411988528938270


A VERSE IN SURAH FATEHA

Muslims all over the world are expected to recite the following phrase numerous times a day, with intent.

001:006
"Guide us to the straight path"

WHAT THE VERSE SHOULD MEAN:

A genuine cry to the Creator of the Universe to rid them of their false beliefs and practices and/or impurities in their thought-process with a view to get as close to the truth as possible. This is whilst remaining completely open to a better argument despite one's own convictions, no matter where the argument comes from. Indeed our Creator can manifest His truth by multifaceted means / channels and through any human instrument of His choosing, at times unexpectedly.

WHAT THIS VERSE SHOULD NOT MEAN

"Guide me to the straight path", AS LONG as it does not conflict with my existing convictions, my inherited worldviews and beliefs, the views of my particular madhab, particular sectarian bias, clergyman or saints.

Sadly in practice, it appears that the latter is what ends up happening for so many.

[extremely honoured]

Dear respected readers,

Peace to you all.

Notwithstanding the number of emails / queries I can potentially receive, I also often receive requests for pro bono input on general academic work, PhD theses, to peer review articles and to proof read material before book publications. 

Albeit I feel extremely honoured that some of you think my input worthy of being solicited, I humbly regret that I cannot respond to all the requests due to my own intense personal commitments / pursuits both academic and otherwise.

Therefore, please kindly accept my sincerest apologies if I am unable to respond to your requests.

With utmost respect and regards,
Joseph

[has not been approved by me or checked for accuracy.]

Dear All,

Please kindly note that any translations offered based on my articles / work by any member has not been approved by me or checked for accuracy.

These unofficial renditions remain the contributions of the person providing the translations.

Regards,
Joseph

[QURAN-CENTRISM]

QURAN-CENTRISM


1. To uphold the Quran as the final divine testimony and authority for believers.

2. Rejects the 'authority' of any other source as a divinely ordained religious source for believers.

3. Continues to engage with any secondary source to better understand communities in antiquity, their thoughts, expressions and how they interpreted / practiced their religion. This is only with a view to extract wider wisdom if possible. This engagement does not imply validation of its 'religious authority'. These sources are always open to debate / discussion and critique.

4. Appreciates the efforts of the intellectuals and thinkers of the past and present. However, this does not imply that their views are to be followed as if they possess divine authority. Their thoughts are always open to scrutiny and critique.

5. Does not reject the 'Ahadith corpus' in toto on the basis of its inauthenticity. Whilst the corpus may have doubtful integrity, it is the 'religious authority' of the corpus which is denied.

6. The Biblical scriptures, the particular canons available during the Quran's revelation are appreciated with a view to engage with. They are to be utilised if a further enquiry to context is of interest. It is important to remember that the Prophet was also referred back to the knowledgeable folk from the People of the Book to verify claims if he was in doubt (16:43; 21:7-8).

7. Does not dismiss traditions outright. Only those traditions, practices and beliefs are dismissed that are deemed to be incongruent with the overarching message of the Quran. There is no intention to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater'.



RELATED ARTICLES:

[1] The Quran-centric Position
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/330796700390797

[2] Two Crucial Differences Between the 'Quranist' (ism) and 'Quran-Centric' Approach
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/542672849203180

[3] An example of a Quran-centric approach - Wash or Wipe in Ablution?
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/481405705329895

[1. TECHNIQUE:]

The traditionalist argument has become increasingly sophisticated as wider discourses with Quran-centric Muslims have become more prevalent through 1-1 engagement and the Internet. This is an expected development and can only serve to refine the arguments from both sides.  For the traditionalist, the key is to establish the need for the 'Sunna' (and all that it entails) as an authoritative part of religion.

Here are some techniques that are usually deployed by the traditionalist with some accompanying thoughts:


1. TECHNIQUE: Moving the discussion away from providing evidence that the Quran 'authorises' the secondary sources (as they have reached us today) as divinely ordained and hence, a compulsory part of religion.

COMMENTS: Firstly, establish the axioms for the debate firmly. What are the agreed sources? If the only agreeable source for admission between the parties is the Quran, the 'criterion between right and wrong' (which it should be), then remain resolute. Do not let the argument diverge from this source. Respectfully, yet firmly demand unequivocal proof that the Quran authorises the secondary sources as a necessary part of 'religion'. Do not allow the discussion to divert until a satisfactory answer is provided.


2. TECHNIQUE: Without using traditions, demanding to know how one can conclude the Quran is from the Prophet and therefore God.

COMMENTS: This is an irrelevant question with its roots in blind following. One does not submit to the Quran because traditions provide alleged evidence of its transmission to an Arabian Prophet. That is simply a claim. Even if the traditions were indisputably reliable in their transmission, it would only prove that an Arabian man uttered the words in antiquity. What provides evidence that the Arabian man was a Prophet and his utterances were indeed inspired by God are the 'arguments' the Quran presents. If the arguments of the Quran were found to be wanting / weak, then all it would prove was that an Arabian man was a false prophet and deluded. A serious analysis / enquiry of the Quran clearly indicates that this is not the case.

What must be posited as a question is how else could some non-Muslims or even atheists ever find the Quran to be credible? It is arguably not due to the claimed authenticity of transmission or because secondary sources claim that the Quran came from a Prophet that convinces them. These are wholly irrelevant claims for such non-believing enquirers. Undoubtedly, it is ultimately the arguments that the Quran presents which convinces them of its veracity, its prophetic provenance and its divine origins.

There is a reason why the Quran's lecture is considered so powerful that if it were possible, it would be able to cause the mountains to move, the earth to be torn asunder and the dead to speak (13:31). The power is in the narratives, not in its claimed preservation. Preservation only leads back to a human source. It does not make it of divine origin.


3. TECHNIQUE: Attempting to smuggle the need for secondary sources as a necessary part of religion through out of context verses and inferences to the prophet requiring him to explain the Quran to his people.

COMMENTS: Deliberate intensely on each inference and verse cited by scrutinising context and surrounding verses. Established themes will be found consistently throughout the Quran. For example, a commonly cited verse for support of the authority of the secondary sources is verse 59:7 which when cited, often completely dismisses the context which is a reference to war booty. Surrounding verses must be examined. Once again, do not admit attack on why you accept the Quran as the final authority. This should have already been established at the start of the discussion (The axioms and the sources admitted for the debate (i.e. the Quran)).

Please also see technique Number 3 and 4 below where it is alleged that 'wisdom' or the 'prophetic explanations' necessitate the authority of the secondary sources.


4. TECHNIQUE: Asking the question: What was the 'wisdom' that the prophet imparted?

COMMENTS: All prophets were granted 'hikmah' (wisdom). This question completely dismisses any acknowledgement that the Arabian prophet was part of a time slice of history, a product of his community, his environment and his circumstances. It is to be recognised that Quranic instructions can be applied in different ways if the circumstances change. The Quranic edict remains timeless, but the circumstances do not. Therefore, much of the Sunna that may have resulted from his wisdom would have been a combination of both the divinely inspired guidance and the context driven situations the prophet and his community were part of and had to deal with. To apply ancient context specific solutions to a different culture, period and circumstances could potentially result in catastrophic outcomes. To recognise this point is absolutely crucial to understand the true nature of the 'Sunna' and how it is to be understood in light of the Quran and its time specific circumstances. Furthermore, be acutely aware of the attempt to 'conflate' prophetic wisdom with the Hadith corpus that has been collected by fallible men allegedly centuries after the death of the Prophet. The two are not the same and must be kept separate.


5. TECHNIQUE: Asking the question: What was the 'explanation' that the prophet imparted?

COMMENTS: Notwithstanding that the Quran claims to be the 'best tafsir' (25:33) and further, claims to be an explanation of all that is necessary for timeless guidance (tibiana lekulli shayin - 16:89), this question also does not appear to appreciate that the Prophet had many roles, not only as a Spiritual guide. In these roles, explanations / Quranic application would become necessary.

The prophet was not only a spiritual guide, but also made judgements on specific situations by making use of the Quran's guidance (24:48). The prophet was an arbitrator and settled disputes (24:51; 8:46). He was a counsellor / consultant (58:12); He was a military leader and made use of the Quran's guidance to conduct his affairs during war (8:1; 8:7).He was a community leader (60:12) and consulted with his contemporaries to make best decisions for the community (3:159). He was the state leader of a chain of commands (4:59). He was the community's treasurer (8:41). He was a spiritual guide in his personal sphere (e.g. with his wives 33:33).

All these required the Quran's guidance and the specific circumstances that the Prophet encountered. It is arguable that if the prophet was to apply the same Quranic principles to a different community of a different time period, the explanation and guidance proffered would also be different.


6. TECHNIQUE: Attack independent use of logic or intellectual reasoning (aql) to the Quran to form a conclusion.

COMMENTS: This is a self-defeating argument not only because the Quran provides ample evidence to the contrary, but also as the hypocrisy of this question is evident in the traditionalist approach when the Quran is provided to non-Muslims for them to use their 'aql' in order to leave their established faith and convert based simply on a copy of the Quran. Logic or intellectual reasoning by definition should have strict principles of validity and it is how humans accept better arguments and achieve an enlightened conscience. To dismiss this is wholly unwarranted.


7. TECHNIQUE: Creating 'Straw Man' arguments and diversions. How do you pray? How do you bathe?

COMMENTS: This approach is designed to elicit finer details which are not mentioned in the Quran. This is once again a deliberate ploy to establish the need for secondary sources as a compulsory part of religion.

This question must be summarily dismissed as any religious action must provide some basis of proof from the Quran, not the other way around. It is for the traditionalist to provide evidence from the Quran why they adhere to a particular ritual no matter how detailed, not the other way around.

There is also a dangerous inference in the question that the Quran is not complete for necessary guidance. This is easily dismissed by the Quran's own admission that it is 'detailed' (fussilat - 41:3; 11:1), a clear explanation of everything necessary for religion (tibiana lekulli shayin - 16:89), the criterion between right and wrong (furqan - 25:1; 2:53) and the perfect balance (mizaan - 42:17). It is also evidence absolutely clear (bayyina - 20:133; 6:157).

Be careful not to be drawn into attacking the 'Hadith' corpus. (e.g. Not one Hadith can be found to teach one how to pray either; the Hadith corpus cannot provide 'chains of narrators' for all the verses of the Quran etc). This will only serve to move you into the quagmire of the secondary sources and will often lead to circular arguments. The focus is the Quran as the agreed source.

[Side note: The Quran only instructs one to 'establish prayer'. Certain expectations of what forms the prayer are provided in different verses (bowing, standing, ablution, direction etc.). If those actions are completed by a congregation, then the prayer is arguably complete. Does the current prayer method that has reached us through en masse practice satisfy the Quran's requirements? Many Quran-centric folk would agree that it does and hence would be happy to assimilate.]


8. TECHNIQUE: Asking the question: How can you even understand the Arabic language of the Quran and what it says as you need the secondary sources to interpret it?

COMMENTS: This is the Achilles heel of some of the 'Quranist' claims that professes to dismiss all secondary sources in toto. The traditionalist inference is correct. The Quran is not a dictionary and cannot be interpreted without an independent source of language interpretation which by definition would be a secondary source. There are also words in the Quran that have only been used once in the entire Scripture (hapax legomenon) and thus, would necessitate the use of another source of interpretation.

However, the Quran-centric approach accepts engagement with sources to interpret the language of the Quran. The protection of the 'dhikr' (reminder) is assured by the Quran (15:9). This implies both the 'words' (kalimaat) of the Quran and an appropriate ability to discern its 'meanings'. Otherwise, the 'dhikr' would be meaningless.

Therefore any source, including classical lexicons, works of grammarians, dictionaries or indeed, any Islamic secondary source which is used to understand the classical Arabic language is implicitly ratified by the Quran (15:9). The Prophet was tasked with a responsibility to convey the message of the Quran in Arabic to his people. His people had a responsibility en masse to pass the message to mankind (22:78) both in Arabic and to convey its meaning to those who did not understand the language.

However, the maxim still stands. No secondary source is divinely ratified and therefore, the linguistic instruments used to extract best meanings can still be debated. This is also the expectation of the Quran (i.e. to extract best meaning - 39:18). 


Finally, beware of Ad Hominem. Attacks against you, your reasoning and your beliefs are not dealing with the argument. Do not engage in it and do not accept it in any form from another.

[[1], [2]]

Dear All,

As-salamu alaykum

I have only managed to visit this topic now. I note that this forum has already witnessed a few threads on this topic [1], [2], at times with vociferous sentiments.

My intention is not to necessarily re-open the discussions but to provide my own thoughts on this topic which hitherto, have not been shared on this forum.

What I would stress however is that in any epistemic debate, both sides need to first establish and agree what sources / types of evidence are admissible / acceptable to both parties. Otherwise, the debate will be futile.

Please kindly see my thoughts on this topic from a Quran's perspective and in particular, reference to verse 65:12 [3]. I also share a recent Facebook post on the topic [4].

I hope this helps, God willing
Joseph


REFERENCES:

[1] The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1611
[2] Geocentrism and Flat Earth in Quran II
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1778
[3] THE SHAPE OF THE EARTH
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20shape%20of%20the%20earth%20FM3.htm
[4] FLAT-EARTH THEORISTS
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1147453592058433

[DEDICATED WEBSITE]

Dear All,

As-salamu alaykum

You may be interested in the following links to content on this website which may assist you with your research which include efforts / thoughts from my humble perspectives.


DEDICATED WEBSITE
http://quransmessage.com/

COMPLETE ARTICLES LIST
http://quransmessage.com/articles/article%20listings%20FM3.htm

COMPLETE FACEBOOK POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/(9)%20Facebook/Shared/fbmainlinksFM2.htm

ILLUSTRATIONS
http://quransmessage.com/articles/illustrations%20FM2.htm

Q&As DATABASE
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm

TRAVELOGUES
http://quransmessage.com/travelogues/travelogues%20FM2.htm

SITE MAP
http://quransmessage.com/sitemap%20FM2.htm


FORUM

QM FORUM (INCLUDING DEDICATED BOARDS TO MY THOUGHTS)
http://www.quransmessage.com/forum/forum.htm

MY FORUM POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1


SEARCH ENGINES

There are also a couple of search engines you can you use on this website:

Website Search Engine: http://quransmessage.com/articles/search%20FM2.htm
Forum Search engine: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=search


I hope this helps, God willing

Regards,
Joseph

[DEDICATED WEBSITE]

Dear All,

As-salamu alaykum

You may be interested in the following links to content on this website which may assist you with your research which include efforts / thoughts from my humble perspectives.


DEDICATED WEBSITE
http://quransmessage.com/

COMPLETE ARTICLES LIST
http://quransmessage.com/articles/article%20listings%20FM3.htm

COMPLETE FACEBOOK POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/(9)%20Facebook/Shared/fbmainlinksFM2.htm

ILLUSTRATIONS
http://quransmessage.com/articles/illustrations%20FM2.htm

Q&As DATABASE
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm

TRAVELOGUES
http://quransmessage.com/travelogues/travelogues%20FM2.htm

SITE MAP
http://quransmessage.com/sitemap%20FM2.htm


FORUM

QM FORUM (INCLUDING DEDICATED BOARDS TO MY THOUGHTS)
http://www.quransmessage.com/forum/forum.htm

MY FORUM POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1


SEARCH ENGINES

There are also a couple of search engines you can you use on this website:

Website Search Engine: http://quransmessage.com/articles/search%20FM2.htm
Forum Search engine: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=search


I hope this helps, God willing

Regards,
Joseph

[DEDICATED WEBSITE]

Dear All,

As-salamu alaykum

You may be interested in the following links to content on this website which may assist you with your research which include efforts / thoughts from my humble perspectives.


DEDICATED WEBSITE
http://quransmessage.com/

COMPLETE ARTICLES LIST
http://quransmessage.com/articles/article%20listings%20FM3.htm

COMPLETE FACEBOOK POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/(9)%20Facebook/Shared/fbmainlinksFM2.htm

ILLUSTRATIONS
http://quransmessage.com/articles/illustrations%20FM2.htm

Q&As DATABASE
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm

TRAVELOGUES
http://quransmessage.com/travelogues/travelogues%20FM2.htm

SITE MAP
http://quransmessage.com/sitemap%20FM2.htm


FORUM

QM FORUM (INCLUDING DEDICATED BOARDS TO MY THOUGHTS)
http://www.quransmessage.com/forum/forum.htm

MY FORUM POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1


SEARCH ENGINES

There are also a couple of search engines you can you use on this website:

Website Search Engine: http://quransmessage.com/articles/search%20FM2.htm
Forum Search engine: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=search


I hope this helps, God willing

Regards,
Joseph

[DEDICATED WEBSITE]

Dear All,

As-salamu alaykum

You may be interested in the following links to content on this website which may assist you with your research which include efforts / thoughts from my humble perspectives.


DEDICATED WEBSITE
http://quransmessage.com/

COMPLETE ARTICLES LIST
http://quransmessage.com/articles/article%20listings%20FM3.htm

COMPLETE FACEBOOK POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/(9)%20Facebook/Shared/fbmainlinksFM2.htm

ILLUSTRATIONS
http://quransmessage.com/articles/illustrations%20FM2.htm

Q&As DATABASE
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm

TRAVELOGUES
http://quransmessage.com/travelogues/travelogues%20FM2.htm

SITE MAP
http://quransmessage.com/sitemap%20FM2.htm


FORUM

QM FORUM (INCLUDING DEDICATED BOARDS TO MY THOUGHTS)
http://www.quransmessage.com/forum/forum.htm

MY FORUM POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1


SEARCH ENGINES

There are also a couple of search engines you can you use on this website:

Website Search Engine: http://quransmessage.com/articles/search%20FM2.htm
Forum Search engine: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=search


I hope this helps, God willing

Regards,
Joseph

[DEDICATED WEBSITE]

Dear All,

As-salamu alaykum

You may be interested in the following links to content on this website which may assist you with your research which include efforts / thoughts from my humble perspectives.


DEDICATED WEBSITE
http://quransmessage.com/

COMPLETE ARTICLES LIST
http://quransmessage.com/articles/article%20listings%20FM3.htm

COMPLETE FACEBOOK POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/(9)%20Facebook/Shared/fbmainlinksFM2.htm

ILLUSTRATIONS
http://quransmessage.com/articles/illustrations%20FM2.htm

Q&As DATABASE
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm

TRAVELOGUES
http://quransmessage.com/travelogues/travelogues%20FM2.htm

SITE MAP
http://quransmessage.com/sitemap%20FM2.htm


FORUM

QM FORUM (INCLUDING DEDICATED BOARDS TO MY THOUGHTS)
http://www.quransmessage.com/forum/forum.htm

MY FORUM POSTS
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;u=1


SEARCH ENGINES

There are also a couple of search engines you can you use on this website:

Website Search Engine: http://quransmessage.com/articles/search%20FM2.htm
Forum Search engine: http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?action=search


I hope this helps, God willing

Regards,
Joseph