Messages

1831

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 12:45:59 PM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p254

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Monday, November 07, 2011, 20:11 (1 hours, 32 minutes ago) @ Joseph Islam


Waqas,

Just one question before I draw a line under this whole discussion with regards your understanding of salaat with which I find no cogency.

The Quran was revealed piecemeal. This is even attestable from the Quran. If you take yourself back to the point of revelation, what 'Divine System' could the new Muslims possibly setup when the Quran had not been completed, yet the directive to 'establish salaat' was present?

It is one thing to extract a meaning of 'salat' in the 21st century as meaning a 'Divine System' based on the complete Quran that is with you.

What did it mean to those when the Quran was incomplete or in its infancy? It can be comprehensively argued from the Quran that the directive to 'establish salaat' is an early one in the Quran's revelatory life-cycle.

I look forward to your response.

Peace.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1832

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 12:43:32 PM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p253

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Monday, November 07, 2011, 18:38 (3 hours, 3 minutes ago) @ Waqas


Peace Waqas,

Thanks for that.

Yes indeed, it does help clarify my understanding of your position better. Of course as you will no doubt appreciate, I retain a differing view 

Thanks anyway.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1833

Discussions / Re: Previous Scriptures and the Qur'an

« on: November 08, 2011, 12:27:06 PM »

Peace Mubashir,

ANSWER TO QUESTION 1:

The concept of answerability and judgement is well attested in the Bible (Both OT and NT).

Ezekiel 44:12 (KJB)
"Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord GOD, and they shall bear their iniquity"

Matthew 25:46 (KJB)
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal"


ANSWER TO QUESTION 2:

'Suhuf' are written pieces of paper / parchments or of a skin and something collected between two boards. It is usually better rendered as scrolls.

The Quran speaks of the existence of the 'suhuf' of Prophet Abraham without giving any indication as to when they existed. What is interesting to note is that the Quran does not speak about its possible alteration at the hands of previous followers of scriptures. Nor does it mention any human accretions as it does with the case of the Torah and Bible.

This leads me to consider the possibility that the 'Suhuf' of Abraham was (a) not an extant text even at the time of the Prophet or (b) That it was a scripture that existed but was regarded as non canon (Apocrypha - such as the Testament of Abraham) by both the Jews and Christians followers.  However, there is every likelihood based on its mention in the Quran along with the suhuf of Prophet Moses, (87:19), that it was an extant literature at the time of the Prophet but later became lost or faded from memory.

Some scholars have surmised that this 'Suhuf' could be a reference to certain literature such as the Sefer Yetzirah (Book of Formation) or other non-canonical works as the Testament of Abraham mentioned above.


ANSWER TO QUESTION 3:

With regards the Injeel, it has never been described by the Quran as a 'kitab' or 'suhuf'. In fact, a couple of times it is not even recognised as 'scripture' in the same sense as the Torah or Quran (Possibly a reference to major law bearing scriptures).

046:012
"And before this (Arabic: wamin qablihi), was the Book (kitab) of Moses as a guide and a mercy: And this Book (kitab) confirms (it) in the Arabic tongue; to warn those that do wrong and as glad tidings to those who do right"

The above verse seems to negate that there was a 'kitab' before the Quran other than the Torah.

This is also confirmed in 11:17 and in 46.30 where the Jinn also seem to have heard the Quran as a 'dialog in truth' but after the one given to Prophet Moses.

It can be argued from the Quran that the Injeel comprises the 'teachings' and 'wisdom' imparted by Prophet Jesus. This was then later communicated by Prophet Jesus's disciples to later compilers on their behalf.

However, it is important to note that whatever the 'nature' of the injeel, the Quran confirms (musaddiqan) whatever essence of the Christian writings was extant at the time of revelation of the Quran. This does not seem to imply that the Injeel that was in the possession of the Christians at the time of the Prophet was corrupted beyond recognition as is sometimes asserted by Muslims.

003:003-4
"He revealed to you the Book in truth confirming that which is between his hands (Arabic: ma bayna yadayhi) (i.e. authenticating what is present with it of the Torah and Bible) and He revealed the Torah and the Gospel before this as a guidance for mankind; and He revealed the criterion. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of God, for them is a severe punishment and God Almighty is all able to retribute"

Please note the relationship of the scriptures. The Quran confirms the inherent veracity of the previous scriptures that was existing at the time of revelation while leaving itself as the criterion to judge right from wrong (furqan).

Prophet Jesus clearly had inspired wisdom from a young age and he taught this wisdom confirming the Torah that was with him. It seems likely to me that these teachings were later communicated and compiled and became known as the Injeel (Gospels).


Please see the following related article:

'BETWEEN HIS HANDS' OR 'BEFORE IT' (MA BAYNA YADAYHI)
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/between%20hands%20or%20before%20it%20FM3.htm


I hope this helps.

Joseph.

1834

Prophets and Messengers / Re: Sending salutations to the Messenger/s or Help his/their mission

« on: November 08, 2011, 07:43:57 AM »

Peace brother Mubashir.

The verse rendition of 33:56 I provided was contained in the following article.

GOD AND THE ANGELS BLESS THE PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh)
http://quransmessage.com/articles/prophet%20is%20blessed%20FM3.htm

The primary purport of this article was not to provide a comprehensive discussion on the meaning of 'yasalluna'. Rather, it was to underscore the point that the 'Yasalluna' by virtue of '33:56' was not an exclusive concept for the Prophet as similar 'Yusalli' was conferred on the believers in 33:43 too.

You are absolutely correct, I clearly believe as expressed in the above article that to argue for the exclusivity and preference of one messenger of God over another is not sanctioned by the Quran and is in fact rebuked by it.

The root of the word 'yasalluna' admits many shades of meaning depending on context. Its root can mean prayer, to magnify, to honour, to bless, to commend etc.

As with any language, the flow of a language and context is key. Words can take different shades of meaning depending on context.  Arabic is no different. The Quran simply spoke in the language of its primary audience and what words they knew and used in a particular context.

For example, if we consult the derivative verbal root 'salla' (form II verb) in 3:39, we note it applies to Zachariya while he was standing (qamu) and praying (yu-salli). In verse 9:84, we note God telling its immediate audience not to 'tusalli' (pray) for a particular people who died. In verse 33:43 and 33:56 it takes the meaning of blessings.

The genitive female plural noun 'salawaat' that you mention in 2:157 has a meaning depending on its context too. In the context of 23:9 and 2:238 there is a directive to guard 'hafizun' which lends to the meaning of prayer. In 22:40 in the context of monasteries, mosques and churches, the same word 'salawatun' means 'synagogues'!

Much like 9:99, the same genitive female plural noun 'salawaat' in your verse 2:157 is best rendered 'blessings'. No one would argue it means 'synagogues'. This is especially when the context is a conferment of God on his servants.

I think the difficulty you are having is trying to get one meaning of a word to fit 'all contexts'. This is as problematic for Arabic as it is for other languages.

I hope that helps.

Your brother in faith,
Joseph.

1835

General Discussions / The Compilation of the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 06:56:27 AM »

http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20compilation%20of%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

1836

Discussions / Re: Islamic Secondary Sources

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:59:32 AM »

Salaam brother,

Some verses comes to mind which provide much insight into human tendencies:

068:036-38                         
"What is wrong with you, how do you judge? Or do you have another book which you study? In it, you can find what you wish?"

Joseph.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/quran%20sole%20guidance%20FM3.htm

1837

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Verse 5/106..

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:39:12 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=178#p184

by Joseph Islam, Tuesday, November 01, 2011, 22:25 (6 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed


To Jawaid.

Peace.

With regards 5:106, you say:

"Since I do not believe that Salat is prayer, but means to remain within the bounds of the Laws of Allah, then it has something to do with the will that is being asked to be witnessed. When death approaches us, we must have a will so that our inheritance can be distributed accordingly"

Respectfully, what you believe is entirely your prerogative. I completely respect that. However, you have provided no cogent explanation for what the prayer in this verse signifies. 'Then it has something to do with the will ..."or "but the two witnesses understanding the conditions of the will and agreeing to give testimony on this" is respectfully not a persuasive argument in light of the Quranic context.

Furthermore, where is the Arabic 'fa-asabatkum musibatu l-mawti' (then befalls you calamity of death) in your translation? You include it in your transliteration but completely miss this out in your translation. The prayer is clearly linked with death and is only taking place after death. Therefore, a crucial part of the Arabic has been missed.

If you have a better explanation then the one you have offered, I would be delighted to take academic note and learn.

Salam.

1838

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:36:08 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p246

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Monday, November 07, 2011, 09:44 (3 hours, 50 minutes ago) @ Imraan
edited by Joseph Islam, Monday, November 07, 2011, 10:14


I completely agree.

Reasons why 'salat' may not be achieving much for the many Muslims of today may be because it has become ritualized, heaped with sectarianism and has lost much of the purpose that was once intended.

Most people don't even understand what they utter in their prayers. A mindless ritual is not only in breach of 4:43 (hatta ta'lamu ma taquluna - until you know what you are saying) it achieves little connection and purpose.

Peace.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1839

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:35:22 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p240

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Sunday, November 06, 2011, 21:28 (16 hours, 6 minutes ago) @ Quasim Hamdani


Dear Quasim,

Peace.

Prayer is an extremely personal connection with God which can penetrate the depths of one's current state of mind and emotions. Everyone's circumstances are undoubtedly different. A customised prayer suited for one's circumstance in a language that is 'understood' I feel is far more meaningful then a robotic 'ritual' prayer in a vernacular that is incomprehensible.

I also find this as one of the many reasons behind why prayer may not be defined by the Quran. A Creator must know His creation and the diversity He has created within (30:22). How could a robotic 'ritual' prayer in a particular language ever be appropriate for such a diverse creation?

Furthermore, I don't find any categorical 'prescription' to recite the Quran as part of prayer. There are many narratives in the Quran which may not be arguably relevant for 'prayer' based recitation such as 2:222 or 9:5 for example. However, having said that the Quran is replete with beautiful timeless prayers, such as the ones you have mentioned and some of the ones I have noted here:

http://quransmessage.com/articles/quranic%20prayers%20FM3.htm

I also find beautiful prayers in the Bible which I personally make use of. The Pater Noster of the NT is one example and there are many others from the OT not least the Shema of Deuteronomy 6.

I firmly believe the Quran's silence allows for fluidity in prayer. After all, God hasn't created humans as automatons.

DO WE HAVE TO PRAY IN ARABIC?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/do%20we%20have%20to%20pray%20in%20arabic%20FM3.htm

Regards.
Joseph.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1840

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:34:13 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p234

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Saturday, November 05, 2011, 13:13 (2 days ago) @ Quasim Hamdani


Brother Quasim,

Peace.

With respect, I find the challenge on the requirement to pray based on the present state of Muslims non-sequitur.

Much like Zakat, Salaat is not the only duty the Quran impresses upon believers. In fact, The Quran is replete with numerous directives within its narratives which address personal and societal matters.

There have been many Muslims societies that achieved prominence throughout history but prayer still remained a central component of their tenets.

The failure of today's Muslims is due to the fact the Quran is not being utilised as the primary source of guidance. It has been shackled, abandoned and left by the wayside (mahjoor 25:30) because of the obsessive reliance on Islamic Secondary Sources.

This has nothing to do with the directives to pray. Prayer is linked to worshipping a Divine Creator. However, that is not all the Quran demands of us. It also demands action.

The two must remain in tandem for complete spiritual and societal fulfilment.

Regards.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1841

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:29:40 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p249

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Monday, November 07, 2011, 11:03 (2 hours, 25 minutes ago) @ Waqas


Peace Waqas,

You said:

"I'm not entirely sure what you mean by your statement on 19:59..."

In my initial post to you, I responded to the following statement you made in your article:

"The salat can be neglected, in favour of following desires [19:59]"

I responded by saying that I could not find that statement in 19:59. Please can you clarify the meaning of your statement which appears without question marks.

I feel that this verse (19:59) is capturing a condition of a people who 'followed their own desires' and abandoned prayer (for whatever reason) much like what I feel, some people are doing today.

You said:

"As a side note, I used to hold the view that the regular/timed salat for the mumineen was a freeform prayer, i.e. no set form other than the basics as laid out in Quran, but after further research this I realised this did not stack up with the Quranic evidence"

Please can you tell me on the strength of your statement "This regular/timed salat is only obligatory upon the mumin (believers/faithful/trustful)" what requirements are actionable at certain times from the Quranic evidence you have ascertained. I always felt following a Divine system was a 24/7 endeavour.

Peace.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1842

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:28:04 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?id=229

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Saturday, November 05, 2011, 01:37 (2 days ago) @ Waqas


Waqas,

Peace.

In 'any' epistemic debate one has the right to demand a response keeping in view where the burden of proof lies (with the one who asserts a claim). As a response and as you have intimated, the fallacy of exhaustive hypothesis is not a suitable response.

Having read your analysis at http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/slw.htm, there are areas of some agreement. However, I also have a response for some of your pointed questions.

You say:

"those who set-up partners can repent and uphold the salat if they trangressed in the system [9:5, 9:11-12]

Can salat mean 'prayer' in this verse? Does The God force people to perform 'prayer' or they will be killed? How would idolaters (i.e. those who set-up partners) pray? Does this make sense to you?"

Verses 9:5 and 9:11-12 have a specific context dealing with treaty breakers. There are two parts. Repentance and acceptance of certain tenets of Islam. Both are done on volition, nothing is forced. The verse simply attempts to distinguish those of the Pagans that show through their actions that they have repented. They show this by following certain tenets. That is where God says they are your 'fa-ikh'waukum fi'ldin' (brothers in religion) 9:11. Brothers in religion can only be related to a conversion in faith proven by actions based on volition.

With your understanding of salaat the verse would still remain problematic as you intimate that salaat is only for those "who are upholding the scripture". (i.e. Mu'mins). Then why would one 'force' (as you have said) Pagans to follow this salaat when they don't believe?

So I ask the same question to you "Does The God force people to perform 'salaat' (your definition of it) or they will be killed?"

You say:

"The salat can be neglected, in favour of following desires [19:59]"

I don't find any directive in the Arabic which says that salaat can be neglected in favour of following desires. The Arabic clearly captures a condition of a people of a later generation who neglected (ada'u) salat and followed their lusts / desires (shahawati). There is no directive in the Arabic where salat can be neglected.


You say:

"If you are reading this and still feel that salat=prayer, and we should rely on traditional hadith (sayings/narrations/stories) to form the sequence/movements/form/recitations of the prayer, ask yourself: does the traditional hadith contain the necessary information to do this? You may be surprised at what you find."

I feel that salaat = prayer but I do not rely on Islamic secondary sources for details.

I feel that you assume that those that believe salaat = prayer need to find details of 'pedantic form and utterance' of 'salaat' from secondary sources because the Quran is silent on this matter. This is the same argument traditionalists assert. Why do you assume that the Quran intends to prescribe this when clearly it doesn't? There is no fixed form or content prescribed by the Quran. However, this does not mean that there is no prayer.

If today's 'traditional' prayer fulfills the basic requirements of the Quran, I have no problem with it.

These are my views and up till yet, no one has provided me any cogency in their argument which has proven to me that prayer means something else. You and I may agree on many things. However on this matter we may have to agree to disagree.

Regards.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1843

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:24:43 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p245

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Monday, November 07, 2011, 09:42 (3 hours, 38 minutes ago) @ jawaid ahmed


Peace

No need to apologise Jawaid. We are all attempting to reach a better understanding of the Quran, God willing. I am aware of the list which was sourced from my site. I am using the same list.

You assert 'surprising quotes to 'prove' prayers' and then you again provide me renderings which I cannot find in the Arabic text.

Here is an example:

4:43 (Those who attain belief shall promptly establish the Divine System in the community, and the Masjid would assume the role of the community center. The believers will assemble in the Masjid for prayer, and to address social welfare and community action). O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! Join not the Salaat congregation if your mind is beclouded for any reason, until you understand what you utter, else you might say senseless words that disturb the assembly. Physical cleanliness contributes to moral purity. So, take a bath after ceremonial impurity (post-coital state) If you are traveling, or are ill, or coming from the privy, and cannot find water, take a little clean sand or earth and lightly rub your faces and hands, before entering the Masjid. (This will help you prepare psychologically for the assembly (5:6). God pardons and absolves your imperfections.

Where are the highlighted words in the Arabic? What kind of assembly is this in which one requires such cleanliness? I have never known any community centre that requires this level of ritual cleanliness or why it would be deemed appropriate. With respect, not only do I find your rendering unacceptable, I also find unacceptable the conclusions you draw from them.

You say:

2:239 Whether fear threatens you from without, or you are strolling, riding, relaxing in peace, remember God as He has taught you (the Right and Wrong) that you did not know. [3:3,3:190-191, 4:103]

Again, this is general talk about your situation, not instructions to do a ritual prayer. I do not think that you stroll, run and relax in contact prayers, do you?

With respect, you have completely missed the essence of the verse if you read the Arabic clearly. The main purport of the verse makes it clear that form can be abandoned but prayer cannot.

If Salat = Divine system, why is it being abandoned here until they are 'secure / safe' (amintum)?

A divine system surely is a 24/7 system and not restricted to certain times of the day or something which can be abandoned in certain conditions.

Maybe this article may help with an understanding of this verse.


PRAY AS WE HAVE TAUGHT YOU HOW TO PRAY - USING VERSE 2.239 AS SUPPORT FOR A FIXED FORM OF PRAYER

http://quransmessage.com/articles/pray%20as%20we%20have%20taught%20you%20how%20to%20pra...

Jawaid, with all due respect, if you take a step back and re-read your whole post explaining the 'Divine system', surely you can see that it simply doesn't fit. Whereas if you kept the meaning of 'salat' = prayer and re-read the Arabic text, you will see it fits if the verses are understood properly. That is why one can understand the need for Wudu, Qiblah, garments, tone, etc etc.

I don't think we are ever going to be able to agree as our differences are not only theological they go to the crux of our approach of understanding the Quran. Nor do I feel it fruitful to go through each of your renditions. In my opinion, you are concluding on verse renditions which I find do not exist in the Arabic text.

Peace.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1844

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:20:51 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p243

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Monday, November 07, 2011, 09:09 (4 hours, 9 minutes ago) @ jawaid ahmed


Jawaid,

Peace.

You say:

"Most people know that direct word for word translations of the Quran would render it incomprehensible. What you have is the translators understanding of the verses, in context and in accordance with other verses that have the same words. It is simply a rendition of the Quran based on their knowledge"

The only way we can truly remain consistent with an ancient text is to translate the words as closely as possible and not 'interpolate' theological positions into it.

Tacitly inserting 'interpolations' into a text only makes the matter worse. Also, it misleads readers who do not know Arabic.

Please provide me evidence from any notable classical text or any Bedouin Arab in the desert that may exist that tells you that salawaat / salat in the context of the Quran = Divine system and not prayer. Claims are not admissible evidence. One asks for verifiable proof.

However, I note the translation from G. Parwez does use the word prayer and remains very consistent with the Quranic Arabic as opposed to the second rendition that you have provided. Why is there such a dichotomy between the two?

I find G.Parwez's rendition of this verse very agreeable with the Quranic text. Anyone comparing the two translations will note major differences. For example, where is the Arabic "wa-ldhikru-lahi akbaru" in the second rendition which G. Parwez correctly translates as "and remembrance of Allah is the greatest".

As I don't generally recognise a lot of the interpolations that have been 'inserted' into the renditions of the Arabic you provide, I cannot see how we can continue the debate, unless you provide me clear evidence.

Hitherto, we are not arguing from the same platform.

Peace.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1845

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 08, 2011, 04:18:10 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p220

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Friday, November 04, 2011, 11:48 (3 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed

Jawaid,

Peace.

Looking at your response to sister Saba, it seems you are basing your arguments on the verse renditions that you yourself are providing.

I read and study directly from the Arabic. I do not recognise the following highlighted areas in the English rendition that you have provided.

29:45 (There are sets of Divine Laws called Laws of Nature, which are prevalent in the outer world. Others are revealed through Wahi, and these provide guidance to mankind.) (O Rasool!) Convey to the people the laws which have been revealed to you through Wahi, and establish the Nizam-us-Salat accordingly. This system will certainly stop people from collecting everything for themselves and from not caring about the welfare of others. And to further this selfish purpose their intellect keeps on suggesting various strange and crafty ways to them. (70:21-27) This system of Salat can only be established when the supreme authority in human society is vested in the Divine Laws. And Allah Almighty knows full well what your self-made laws and systems can do.

I put to you a simple question. How can one discuss anything with a view to posit a possible alternative, more cogent argument when you are basing your views on verse renditions which do not exist in the Arabic?

How can those readers who rely on the rendition you have provided tell the difference between what is 'translated' and what is 'interpolated' into the text?

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com