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Messages - good logic

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481
Prophets and Messengers / Re: Re: Prophet Joseph's Reliance on Allah
« on: February 16, 2014, 02:28:37 PM »
Peace Optimist.

Thank you for your post.

I have not said anything about the companion of Joseph.

I also said I hope you will be patient with me.

Please open another thread if you wish to carry on our discussion and I will gladly ,GOD willing, explain my view further using Qoran.

GOD bless you.

Peace.


482
Prophets and Messengers / Re: Re: Prophet Joseph's Reliance on Allah
« on: February 16, 2014, 04:08:12 AM »
Greetings Optimist.

Thank you for your post.

GOD is in total control of everything. What happened to Joseph was also controlled by GOD.

True believers have a big responsibility to follow/serve GOD Alone ,only God s system will do.( they do not follow man s system!). The higher up the ladder, the bigger the responsibility. They must be extra careful and remember GOD at all times. They must never rely on anyone else or any other system.
In the believers s case " If something bad happened to you ,it is from you,but if something good happened to you it is from GOD"


Also:
8:17
It was not you who killed them; God is the One who killed them. It was not you who threw when you threw; God is the One who threw. But He thus gives the believers a chance to earn a lot of credit. God is Hearer, Omniscient.
فَلَم تَقتُلوهُم وَلٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ قَتَلَهُم وَما رَمَيتَ إِذ رَمَيتَ وَلٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ رَمىٰ وَلِيُبلِىَ المُؤمِنينَ مِنهُ بَلاءً حَسَنًا إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَميعٌ عَليمٌ
6:17
If God touches you with adversity, none can relieve it except He. And if He touches you with a blessing, He is Omnipotent
وَإِن يَمسَسكَ اللَّهُ بِضُرٍّ فَلا كاشِفَ لَهُ إِلّا هُوَ وَإِن يَمسَسكَ بِخَيرٍ فَهُوَ عَلىٰ كُلِّ شَىءٍ قَدي
رٌ

In the case of Joseph, GOD choose for him to stay few more years in prison. Why?

Just something to reflect on.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

483
Prophets and Messengers / Re: Re: Prophet Joseph's Reliance on Allah
« on: February 16, 2014, 01:10:17 AM »
Greetings Opyimist.

Thank you for your advise.

If you kindly open a new thread, I will give you the reasons from Qoran of why I understand the verse about Joseph as I explained it. And I still do.

I hope you will be patient with me.

In this food thread I will be " off topic".

Thank you once more.

GOD bless
Peace.

484
Prophets and Messengers / Re: Re: Prophet Joseph's Reliance on Allah
« on: February 15, 2014, 05:12:15 AM »
Greetings Saba.

Thank you for providing me with another explanation for the verse.

Can I clarify that I said:" That is how I understand the verse".

" Shirk" is different from forgetting then repenting. I have not accused a noble prophet of " Shirk".

All the noble prophets were humans like us. If they erred or forgot then repented, there is no big deal about it.

I also respect their devotion to God and close by saying: Peace upon them all .

GOD bless you.

Peace.

485
Greetings Saba.

That is how I understand the verse about Joseph. You may understand it differently

The point that I wanted to make is to get into the habit of remembering to say " Bismi allah", "In shaa allah" and " Mashaa allah"...etc. A true believer has GOD on his/her mind 24/7. If he/she errs or forgets then:

" Remember your Lord when you forget" and ask for forgiveness.

Greetings Optimist.

Thank you for your views. You mentioned slaughter , none of the verses I commented about have the word " slaughter" in them!

Now I believe the following verses clarify what I understand about lawful food:

16:114
Therefore, you shall eat from God's provisions everything that is lawful and good, and be appreciative of God's blessings, if you do worship Him alone.

فَكُلوا مِمّا رَزَقَكُمُ اللَّهُ حَلٰلًا طَيِّبًا وَاشكُروا نِعمَتَ اللَّهِ إِن كُنتُم إِيّاهُ تَعبُدونَ

Here is what is prohibited:

16:115
He only prohibits for you dead animals, blood, the meat of pigs,* and food which is dedicated to other than God. If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

إِنَّما حَرَّمَ عَلَيكُمُ المَيتَةَ وَالدَّمَ وَلَحمَ الخِنزيرِ وَما أُهِلَّ لِغَيرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ فَمَنِ اضطُرَّ غَيرَ باغٍ وَلا عادٍ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ

16:116
You shall not utter lies with your own tongues stating: "This is lawful, and this is unlawful," to fabricate lies and attribute them to God. Surely, those who fabricate lies and attribute them to God will never succeed.

وَلا تَقولوا لِما تَصِفُ أَلسِنَتُكُمُ الكَذِبَ هٰذا حَلٰلٌ وَهٰذا حَرامٌ لِتَفتَروا عَلَى اللَّهِ الكَذِبَ إِنَّ الَّذينَ يَفتَرونَ عَلَى اللَّهِ الكَذِبَ لا يُفلِحونَ

Finally This verse makes it clear that all food is allowed except the four mentioned in the verse:

6:145
Say, "I do not find in the revelations given to me any food that is prohibited for any eater except: (1) carrion, (2) running blood, (3) the meat* of pigs, for it is contaminated, and (4) the meat of animals blasphemously dedicated to other than God." If one is forced (to eat these), without being deliberate or malicious, then your Lord is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

قُل لا أَجِدُ فى ما أوحِىَ إِلَىَّ مُحَرَّمًا عَلىٰ طاعِمٍ يَطعَمُهُ إِلّا أَن يَكونَ مَيتَةً أَو دَمًا مَسفوحًا أَو لَحمَ خِنزيرٍ فَإِنَّهُ رِجسٌ أَو فِسقًا أُهِلَّ لِغَيرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ فَمَنِ اضطُرَّ غَيرَ باغٍ وَلا عادٍ فَإِنَّ رَبَّكَ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ


Are we saying lamb or beef from the supermarket, yes any supermarket, is dedicated to other than GOD? Is it "Halal" or "Haram"?

I understand that we are responsible for making our food " halal" not others?

God bless.

Peace.

486
Greetings Optimist.

Thank you for your questions.

1- Let us quote the verses:

6:118
You shall eat from that upon which God's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelations.
فَكُلوا مِمّا ذُكِرَ اسمُ اللَّهِ عَلَيهِ إِن كُنتُم بِـٔايٰتِهِ مُؤمِنينَ

Mention God's Name Before You Eat.  Note how God did not say "before you Slaughter"!

6:119
Why should you not eat from that upon which God's name has been mentioned? He has detailed for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors.

وَما لَكُم أَلّا تَأكُلوا مِمّا ذُكِرَ اسمُ اللَّهِ عَلَيهِ وَقَد فَصَّلَ لَكُم ما حَرَّمَ عَلَيكُم إِلّا مَا اضطُرِرتُم إِلَيهِ وَإِنَّ كَثيرًا لَيُضِلّونَ بِأَهوائِهِم بِغَيرِ عِلمٍ إِنَّ رَبَّكَ هُوَ أَعلَمُ بِالمُعتَد
ي

Yes I believe before we eat all food, meat and non-meat.

2- Common sense will prevail here.Every meal whether it is a single item or a 5 course meal( if one is not being too greedy? ie glutton...) needs one single mention of GOD s name . Appreciation of what GOD is providing and a thank you to Him.

3- GOD is forgiver most Merciful when one forgets. Ask for forgiveness and move on.
Here is an example in Qoran:

-- Joseph-- Slipped up and put his trust on other than GOD.
12:42
He then said to the one to be saved "Remember me at your lord."* Thus, the devil caused him to forget his Lord, and, consequently, he remained in prison a few more years.

وَقالَ لِلَّذى ظَنَّ أَنَّهُ ناجٍ مِنهُمَا اذكُرنى عِندَ رَبِّكَ فَأَنسىٰهُ الشَّيطٰنُ ذِكرَ رَبِّهِ فَلَبِثَ فِى السِّجنِ بِضعَ سِنينَ


GOD said if one forgets , ask for forgiveness.

Thank you once more .
GOD bless.
Peace.

487
Greetings brothers and sisters.

{22:36}:
The animal offerings are among the rites decreed by God for your own good.* You shall mention God's name on them while they are standing in line. Once they are offered for sacrifice, you shall eat therefrom and feed the poor and the needy. This is why we subdued them for you, that you may show your appreciation

وَالبُدنَ جَعَلنٰها لَكُم مِن شَعٰئِرِ اللَّهِ لَكُم فيها خَيرٌ فَاذكُرُوا اسمَ اللَّهِ عَلَيها صَوافَّ فَإِذا وَجَبَت جُنوبُها فَكُلوا مِنها وَأَطعِمُوا القانِعَ وَالمُعتَرَّ كَذٰلِكَ سَخَّرنٰها لَكُم لَعَلَّكُم تَشكُرونَ

Is this talking about the pilgrims? They are doing the sacrifice, they will mention GOD s name on it.

Now{ 5:3}:

Prohibited for you are animals that die of themselves, blood, the meat of pigs,* and animals dedicated to other than God. (Animals that die of themselves include those) strangled, struck with an object, fallen from a height, gored, attacked by a wild animal - unless you save your animal before it dies - and animals sacrificed on altars. Also prohibited is dividing the meat through a game of chance; this is an abomination. Today, the disbelievers have given up concerning (the eradication of) your religion; do not fear them and fear Me instead. Today, I have completed your religion, perfected My blessing upon you, and I have decreed Islam as " deen" for you. If one is forced by famine (to eat prohibited food), without being deliberately sinful, then God is Forgiver, Merciful.

حُرِّمَت عَلَيكُمُ المَيتَةُ وَالدَّمُ وَلَحمُ الخِنزيرِ وَما أُهِلَّ لِغَيرِ اللَّهِ بِهِ وَالمُنخَنِقَةُ وَالمَوقوذَةُ وَالمُتَرَدِّيَةُ وَالنَّطيحَةُ وَما أَكَلَ السَّبُعُ إِلّا ما ذَكَّيتُم وَما ذُبِحَ عَلَى النُّصُبِ وَأَن تَستَقسِموا بِالأَزلٰمِ ذٰلِكُم فِسقٌ اليَومَ يَئِسَ الَّذينَ كَفَروا مِن دينِكُم فَلا تَخشَوهُم وَاخشَونِ اليَومَ أَكمَلتُ لَكُم دينَكُم وَأَتمَمتُ عَلَيكُم نِعمَتى وَرَضيتُ لَكُمُ الإِسلٰمَ دينًا فَمَنِ اضطُرَّ فى مَخمَصَةٍ غَيرَ مُتَجانِفٍ لِإِثمٍ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفورٌ رَحيمٌ

And {5:4}

They consult you concerning what is lawful for them; say, "Lawful for you are all good things, including what trained dogs and falcons catch for you." You train them according to God's teachings. You may eat what they catch for you, and mention God's name thereupon. You shall observe God. God is most efficient in reckoning.

يَسـَٔلونَكَ ماذا أُحِلَّ لَهُم قُل أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ الطَّيِّبٰتُ وَما عَلَّمتُم مِنَ الجَوارِحِ مُكَلِّبينَ تُعَلِّمونَهُنَّ مِمّا عَلَّمَكُمُ اللَّهُ فَكُلوا مِمّا أَمسَكنَ عَلَيكُم وَاذكُرُوا اسمَ اللَّهِ عَلَيهِ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِنَّ اللَّهَ سَريعُ الحِسابِ


Now here is the interesting bit {5:5}:

Today, all good food is made lawful for you. The food of the people of the scripture is lawful for you, [and your food is lawful for them]*. Also, you may marry the chaste women among the believers, as well as the chaste women among the followers of previous scripture, provided you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain chastity, not committing adultery, nor taking secret lovers. Anyone who rejects faith, all his work will be in vain, and in the Hereafter he will be with the losers.

اليَومَ أُحِلَّ لَكُمُ الطَّيِّبٰتُ وَطَعامُ الَّذينَ أوتُوا الكِتٰبَ حِلٌّ لَكُم وَطَعامُكُم حِلٌّ لَهُم وَالمُحصَنٰتُ مِنَ المُؤمِنٰتِ وَالمُحصَنٰتُ مِنَ الَّذينَ أوتُوا الكِتٰبَ مِن قَبلِكُم إِذا ءاتَيتُموهُنَّ أُجورَهُنَّ مُحصِنينَ غَيرَ مُسٰفِحينَ وَلا مُتَّخِذى أَخدانٍ وَمَن يَكفُر بِالإيمٰنِ فَقَد حَبِطَ عَمَلُهُ وَهُوَ فِى الـٔاخِرَةِ مِنَ الخٰسِرينَ


GOD chooses His words carefully. We are responsible for making anything we eat " halal" by mentioning GOD s name on it before we "EAT".  If we are slaughtering the animal ourselves then of course we say "god s name" on it . If it was prepared by someone else then we say "God s name" on it before we eat it.

We must be careful not to make things "halal" or " haram" when GOD made it lawful for us,
 As long as we say " Bismillah" before we eat, everything is halal except the four meats that are clearly forbidden.

Peace to all.

488
greetings, Saba ,Wakas,brothers and sisters.

I have spent years looking at these so called " Methodologies". I found  most of them  wishful thinking .

GOD , in His wisdom and knowledge foresees all these misunderstandings , differences, methodologies, opinions,etc... And clarifies by sending a "messenger".

How clever are we? Do we think we so clever we can find all the explanations of GOD s words by ourselves?

Qoran says the opposite! GOD helps or diverts people from understanding His words.

How do we know that we are being helped or diverted?

Part of GOD s test is to try us by each others doctrines/ways... So that we can be sorted out..The good from the bad.. The sincere from the pretender.. The selfish from the helpful...

After all is GOD not sufficient to teach His words? Is GOD not capable of clarifying our rites/Deen...? How does He do that?

I know most claim they are sincere in their quest, but GOD knows the innermost thoughts of all of us.

I trust that GOD is sorting it out .

May the Lord guide us to His true path.

GOD bless you all.
Peace.

489
Prophets and Messengers / Re: Solomon and animal communication
« on: February 05, 2014, 02:37:40 AM »
Greetings sister Hope.

I agree  with brother Joseph. Thanks for sharing.

I talk to my dog and my horse continually. Even though they do not answer me with words, their actions and manners communicate their feelings to me better than words from humans do.

Very much appreciated.

GOD bless you.
Peace.


490
Greetings Nura.

Yes indeed,

God very clearly mentioned in the Quran what is prohibited from the food and meat. See 2:173, 5:3, 6:145 and 16:115. From these verses you can know what is Halal (lawful) meat and what is haram (prohibited).


[Quran 2:173] He only prohibits for you the eating of animals that die of themselves (without human interference), blood, the meat of pigs, and animals dedicated to other than God. If one is forced (to eat these), without being malicious or deliberate, he incurs no sin. God is Forgiver, Most Merciful.

In this verse ,you are right, GOD talks only about " meats".

If you are a "do it yourself" saying "bismillah before slaughtering and before eating are both fine as far as I know.

However,It must become a  habit to remember the "Provider" of all our food, both Animal and vegetables or any other edible food before we eat ,we say " Bismillah"..

Again check all information as per {17:36}.

GOD bless you.
Peace.


491
Greetings Nura.

This is my opinion.

God Almighty has  specified a very important criteria for His true believers, MENTION GOD"S NAME on everything you are going to eat. See 5:4, & 6:118-119,

[Quran 6:118] You shall eat from that upon which God's name has been pronounced, if you truly believe in His revelations.
[Quran 6:119] Why should you not eat from that upon which God's name has been mentioned? He has detailed for you what is prohibited for you, unless you are forced. Indeed, many people mislead others with their personal opinions, without knowledge. Your Lord is fully aware of the transgressors.

God in these verses puts the responsibility, as usual, on the individual. It is you, I and everyone's responsibility to mention God's name on everything we eat. Notice here that God says "EAT" and not "SLAUGHTER" when it comes to mentioning His name. God knows that one day these slaughter houses will be run by machines and computers. He assigned the responsibility to every true Muslim to mention His name on his /her food. We can have machines say Azan and read Basmallah and mention God's name on everything, but this would not take away the responsibility of every individual to remember God and mention His  name when it is time to eat. Individuals who work in the slaughter house can be idol-worshipers or aetheist while claiming to be Muslims, Jews or Christians . That is why it is your responsibility to mention God's name before eating. In brief, the slaughter houses/others do not make the meat halal or haram but YOU do.

God did not make distinction between the meat prepared by a Muslim, a Christian, or a Jew, all are lawful to the same degree, all are HALAL. All should be eaten after God's name is pronounced on it before you eat it. Making it difficult for yourself,  reflects a misunderstanding of or disbelief in God's book and His permission for us to eat the food of the Christians and Jews. Those who believe God in the Quran accept His permission to eat the food of the people of the scriptures and enjoy it and appreciate the mercy of the Most Merciful.

 
It does not matter what was  said  or done with food,before we eat , we are responsible to mention GOD s name and thank him for His provisions ,as simple as that in my opinion.

GOD bless.
Peace to you..

492
Islamic Duties / Re: Praying for the Deceased
« on: January 26, 2014, 05:47:25 AM »
Greetings brother Joseph.

Thank you once more for your answer.

If you mean praying ( salat) for the dead as  a sending off . i.e " funeral prayer", then,I agree the Qoran supports that.

However to pray for the dead to be saved (And build up a hope/expectation that GOD is going to save them) is what I described as a form of intercession.

The case of Abraham and his father ; When Abraham realised that his father was opposed to GOD, he ceased/stopped...

Thank you brother . I hope you see the point I was making.

I appreciated the conversation.

GOD bless you.

Peace.


493
Islamic Duties / Re: Praying for the Deceased
« on: January 25, 2014, 09:01:57 PM »
Greetings brother Joseph.

Thank you for taking the time and effort to answer.

Saying "Peace be upon the righteous" is agreeing with God s judgement, praying for the dead is a form of intercession?

Although I have read your thoughts and references, I also feel that I would like to politely and respectfully agree to disagree with you because of the following verses:


 Abraham,God's beloved servant, could not intercede on behalf of his father (9:114). Noah could not intercede on behalf of his son (11:46). Muhammad could not intercede on behalf of his uncle (111:1-3) or relatives (9:80).
Also See 2:48, 2:123; 6:51, 6:70, 6:94; 7:53; 10:3; 19:87; 26:100; 30:13; 32:4; 36:23; 39:44; 40:18; 43:86; 53:26 & 74:48.
 


Thank you brother for your thoughts.

GOD bless you.

Peace.



494
Islamic Duties / Re: Praying for the Deceased
« on: January 25, 2014, 03:32:23 PM »
Greetings bother Joseph.

Thank you once again for your answer.

While I agree with you that GOD is not confined to our time/space.

However as far as we are concerned we live this life at this time, Those who died have lived their life in the past time. Praying for them is a futile exercise.( Do not get me wrong, as far as I am concerned I hope GOD forgives as many as He chooses to forgive)

Say , for example I wanted to pray for " Pharaoh"( the one associated with Moses). I know  that the outcome described in Qoran will not be changed.GOD knew that I was going to pray for him(or not) is also not going to change the outcome. So what will my praying for him achieve?

While our compassion,  care for others will probably give us the need to ask GOD to forgive/bless.. them, the reality is as far as our time and space is concerned they have earned their reward/sanction and are awaiting judgement. i.e. The matter is settled at death.

GOD bless you.

Peace.




495
Islamic Duties / Praying for the Deceased
« on: January 25, 2014, 01:55:46 AM »
Greetings brother Joseph.

Please allow me to make the following point, after I quote you from your above post:

I also have no qualms to pray for the deceased at any gravesite. However, I never ask the dead for anything as this in my opinion, is tantamount to shirk. One can only pray 'for' the dead and not 'through' the dead [1]. 

Is praying for the dead Qoranic?  Giving them a sending off at the grave may be!
We have to ask ourselves the following questions using Qoranic facts:
1- Have they already  had their interim and deserved reward/sanction according to GOD s judgement ?
2- Can we change the outcome( already decided by GOD) once one is dead?
3-What would praying for them change?

GOD has asked us to ponder Qoran and reason by what is taught in it.

However I agree with you we should not pray through the dead either.

GOD bless you.

Peace.





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