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[If only things were as clear cut ?]

Greetings Truth Seeker.

Thank you for your post.

If only things were as clear cut ?

  abrogate many verses, or ignore many other verses as if they did not exist, then say how dare someone remove 2 verses?

For example I have asked many people who disagree with the removal of the 2 verses to explain {46:10}, {54:1}, {54:2"}... and many other verses and to date I have not received a reasonable explanation?

We have to keep checking  and asking GOD for guidance.

May the Lord guide us to His path.

Peace to yu.

[I wonder if they have as much as Solomon had?I wonder if " the camel goes through the eye of the needle"?I wonder if " their gold and silver are going to heated up in Gehenna"?]

Greetings Optimist.

I am also an optimist!

I wonder if they have as much as Solomon had?

I wonder if " the camel goes through the eye of the needle"?

I wonder if " their gold and silver are going to heated up in Gehenna"?

I wonder...

GOD bless you.

Peace.

[FREEDOM OF CHOICE .]

Peace all.
There are those that believe in  codes, no codes, traditions, fables,others...etc

Everyone says they are searching for the truth. Many are sincerely wanting to find the truth.

That is why it is important to remember FREEDOM OF CHOICE .

We are absolutely free to believe or disbelieve in God. It is God's will that we will  do freely, seeQoran: 18:29, 25:57, 73:19, 74:37, 76:29  God told us in the Qoran that He knows the future and He knows what everyone of us will do, what they will believe, how they behave and  what they commit in this life, because He is God who knows the past, present and future.
God fully knows what kind of decision each one of us is destined to make; He knows which of us are going to Heaven and which are going to Hell. Even before we were born into this world, God knew which souls are good and which souls are evil.

However, we are fully free to choose, either God or someone else. Because of this freedom we are responsible for our decision on the day of Judgment. We cannot blame our parents, friends, scholars,or GOD even though He knows the outcome or anyone. We can only blame ourselves.

So argue by what it is best.None of us can change/guide the other. Only GOD can do that.

Because of this kind of freedom God never forces His religion on any body,

[Qoran 10:99] Had your Lord willed, all the people on earth would have believed. Do you want to force the people to become believers?
If God was to force people to believe or disbelieve he would not have asked them about their choices and He would never have punished some and rewarded others. God is Most Merciful.

Likewise , believe what you want from Qoran, but be true to yourself and check that you search deep for the truth until you have no doubt? Only yourself to blame in the end?

The only benefit here ,in other forums,or with anyone s books/opinions/writings...is to learn from each other, take what is best and respect each other as per Qoran.

May the Lord guide us .

GOD bless.

Peace to all.

[Angels are devoted to God alone and are extensively mentioned in Quran. God clarifies what convictions they have and what tasks they are in charge of. Students of Quran easily conclude that they are God's dedicated worshipers and servants (43:19) who uphold God's absolute authority without wavering, glorify Him, praise Him (2:30) and race to carry out His orders (79:4-5, 15:7-8). Mediating God's missions is what makes them referenced by Him as messengers which is one of the literal meanings of angels (22:75, 43:80, 77:5). They are constant messengers; on duty, non-stop, until the Day of Judgment. They surround us, every night and day all year around to perform certain duties as decreed by God (79:3-5):]

Peace Hope.

This is what Qoran tells us about Angels.

Angels are devoted  to God alone and are extensively mentioned in Quran. God clarifies what convictions they have and what tasks they are in charge of. Students of Quran easily conclude that they are God's dedicated worshipers and servants (43:19) who uphold God's absolute authority without wavering, glorify Him, praise Him (2:30) and race to carry out His orders (79:4-5, 15:7-8). Mediating God's missions is what makes them referenced by Him as messengers which is one of the literal meanings of angels (22:75, 43:80, 77:5). They are constant messengers; on duty, non-stop, until the Day of Judgment. They surround us, every night and day all year around to perform certain duties as decreed by God (79:3-5):

- God along with the Spirit and the angels placed Quran in prophet Muhammad's heart on the Night of Destiny (16:2, 97:4, 44:4, 53:1-10, 2:97).
- The angels were also witnesses for that process of revelation (4:166).
- They will be witnesses on the Day Of Judgment (78:38).
- They guard us which means they are our keepers according to God's plans and based on our choices (13:11).
- They support the prophets and all the believers according to God's will (33:43, 33:56, 3:124-125, 8:9, 8:12).
-They are messengers to deliver good news or warnings and to inspire the believers (41:30-31, 3:39, 3:42, 3:45, 11:81).
- They take our souls when it is time to depart earth (16:28, 16:32).
- They will descend and will be seen in multitudes on the Day of Judgment (25:22-25).
- They receive the believers on the Day of Judgment to comfort them and protect them from any horror of that day (21:103).
- They record everything we do or utter on earth (50:17, 43:80).
- They climb to God with their reports (32:5, 70:4).
- They stir clouds and drive the wind (77:2-3).
- They will guard Hell & Paradise, and float around the believers in Paradise (74:31, 39:73, 13:23).
- They surround the throne of the Most Gracious (69:17, 39:75, 89:22).
There are many controversies and man-made innovations that surround the angels starting from questioning their existence, attributing certain looks or feminine gender to them (43:19, 37:150, 53:27) and all the way to idolizing them as entities that have powers and could serve without God's full authority (3:79-80). All of this is explicitly refuted in Quran.

One of the commonly used expressions by humans is:".....is like an angel". We usually resort to that when a person is portraying qualities that we generally attribute to angels such as physical beauty, sincerity, purity of thoughts, kindness, or when this person serves us and/or saves us just in time when it is urgently needed.

The truth of the matter is that our standards and perceptions of how an angel should be are irrelevant and at times false. The absolute truth about angels is already detailed in Quran, and all that we need to know about them is presented for us in black and white. According to our shortsighted understanding of kindness, angels would not always be considered kind (79:1-2, 6:93, 8:50, 47:27, 66:6). The portrayed image of them in art work as beautiful creatures is only a man-made assumption based on the human standards of beauty but their actual physical appearance is only briefly mentioned in Quran (35:1). They are not always at our rescue ; they might support us and guard us or not according to God's decree and based on the choices we make (13:11). They might deliver certain blessings while withholding them for others according to God's decree (77:2-4).

This reminder emphasizes the one quality of angels that should matter the most to believers. It is their unconditional submission to God alone, and their dedication to serve Him, obey Him, and please Him. Their full awareness of God and their unwavering faith in Him makes them set such a perfect and powerful example of how true believers in God should be. For the students of Quran, "like an angel" should only imply the awesome blessing of certainty and the quality of the absolute devotion to the only Lord and Master.

Angels are full of reverence and compassion for God. They value Him as He should be valued. They obey Him without the least hesitance or arrogance. They act based on His will, and utter what conforms with His set laws and systems. Examples of that are that they are the believers' allies (41:30-31), they pray for their forgiveness (40:7), and they condemn the disbelievers (3:87, 2:161). They will testify according to the divine righteousness on the Day of Judgment (78:38). Allying with believers, praying for the forgiveness of the believers, dissociating from disbelievers, condemning disbelief, and uttering only what goes with God's laws and teachings are all set divine commands.

I believe any other details that people attribute to them or names that they pick for angels , if not confirmed by Qoran, are fantasies and irrelevant.

GOD bless you.
Peace.

[(The following verse is God talking to David about Solomon)" I will be His Father and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. (Chronicles 17:13)And:Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which can not be measured or counted. In the place where it is said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living G-d. (Hosea 1:10)The kings of Israel are referred to as sons of God because they are to be His representatives, ruling in his place on earth over His people."I said, You are Elokim; you are all sons of the Most High" (Psalm 82:6 ) Jesus only said a phrase that was commonly said by Jews in his days, and Jesus did not claim to have a monopoly on son-ship with God. We are all God's children, Jesus is not the only one and never claimed to be the Begotten one.]

Greetings friends.

Please allow me to clarify " The son of GOD"  issue:

(The following verse is God talking to David about Solomon)" I will be His Father and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. (Chronicles 17:13)
And:
Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which can not be measured or counted. In the place where it is said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living G-d. (Hosea 1:10)
The kings of Israel are referred to as sons of God because they are to be His representatives, ruling in his place on earth over His people.

"I said, You are Elokim; you are all sons of the Most High" (Psalm 82:6 )

Jesus only said a phrase that was commonly said by Jews in his days, and Jesus did not claim to have a monopoly on son-ship with God. We are all God's children, Jesus is not the only one and never claimed to be the Begotten one.

GD bless.
Peace to all.

["And devils came out of many, crying out and saying, 'You are the son of God!' And he, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that he was the Messiah" #14 (Luke 4:41).]

Greetings marealta.

I find that in some areas Qoran agrees/confirms what  the bible says about Jesus the Messiah.For example;

Jesus himself refused to be called son of God on a number of occasions. In the following verse he rebukes the ones who called him son of God, preferring the title of 'Messiah':

"And devils came out of many, crying out and saying, 'You are the son of God!' And he, rebuking them, did not allow them to speak, for they knew that he was the Messiah" #14 (Luke 4:41).

The refusal of Jesus to be called the son of God, and choosing instead the title of 'son of man' also occurred during the trial at the Sanhedrian. When he was asked if he claimed to be the son of God he replied:

"So you say. But I tell you this: from now you shall see the son of man seated at the right hand of God" #15 (Mathew 26:64)

On numerous occasions Jesus speaks of himself as a prophet:

"A prophet is not without honour except in his home town and his own house" #16 (Mathew 13:57) (Mark 6:4) and (Luke 4:24)

We also read:

"I must journey today, tomorrow and the day following for it cannot be that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem" #17 (Luke 13:33)
"This is the prophet Jesus" #18 (Mathew 21:11)

Jesus also spoke of himself as the messenger of God:

"Whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. Whoever welcomes God's messenger because he is God's messenger will share in his reward." #19 (Mathew 10:40)
"No messenger is greater than the one who sent him" #20 (John 13:16)

That is exactly what Qoran portrays Jesus as:

[Quran, 5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate!

[Quran, 5:116] (On The Day Of Resurrection) God will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary,** did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside God?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

'Atonement' & 'Original sin'

The concepts of 'Atonement' and 'Original Sin' are equally precarious and not without inconsistencies. To claim that Jesus suffered and was crucified to atone for our sin is philosophically wrong. Not only does this conviction render little sense to the merits of punishment and reward,  but more dangerously, such belief could be regarded as a license to disregard righteousness as long as one believes in Jesus!

The Atonement doctrine contradicts the Old and New Testaments:

Old Testament:

"Also to you O Lord, belong mercy; for you render to each one according to his work." #87 (Psalms 62:12)
"And will he not render to each man according to his deeds?" #88 (Proverbs 24:12)
"The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself." #89 (Ezekiel 18:20)

New Testament:

"Each of us shall give an account of himself to God." #90 (Romans 14:12)
"Each one will receive his own reward according to his own labour." #91 (1 Corinthians 3:

GOD bless you.

Peace.

Greetings Simonejamilla.

Welcome to the Forum.

From another newcomer .

GOD bless you.
Peace

[As Science is "evolving"; Evolution between species is dying. Science is about to discover the creator. The creator is showing more signs to this generation that He is the " Intelligent designer" that created everything]

Greetings all.

As Science is "evolving"; Evolution between species is dying. Science is about to discover the creator. The creator is showing more signs to this generation that He is the  " Intelligent designer" that created everything

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5sfHz3xyNc

Praise be to GOD Lord of the universe.

Peace to all

[God directly informs us, all humans, that He has taught us and equipped us to distinguish things (55:4), and He commands us to use our brains, eyesight and hearing to study, reflect, analyse, and judge for ourselves (17:36, 2:148) . He directly asks all humans to read Qoran from cover to cover (73:4), study it (47:24), meditate with it (17:79), and increase their knowledge (20:114). He praises the thinkers and the knowledgeable (29:49, 3:191), and He links reflecting and examining resources to seek knowledge with the right faith (3:18), wisdom, good vision, good logic, and intelligence (39:18, 38:20, 38:45, 2:269, 13:19). He commands all humans, not just an exclusive group, to follow Qoran (7:3, 6:155), proclaim Qoran (3:187), and to remind with Qoran (6:70, 50:45).Additionally, God declares that the message in Qoran is for all the people (81:27, 38:87) and Qoran is the only source of religious guidance (18:27). He also states that He made Qoran easy to learn (54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40). He emphasizes that it is made of straightforward teachings except for some allegories that our salvation doesn't rely on (3:7). He proclaims it to be in perfect Arabic tongue without any ambiguity or contradictions (39:28, 4:82). He thus proclaims Himself as both Author and Teacher of Qoran (10:37, 55:1-2). He also narrates examples and displays scenes from the past and the future to teach us that no soul is responsible for another (53:38), and we are equally accountable for our own deeds (64:7) as we return to Him individually, not in the company of our explainers or idols (6:94). With all of these commands, teachings, and descriptions, why would any sane mind consider a third party besides God to learn Qoran when God's words are revealed and taught in black and white by Him?]

Greeings Sardar.

Thank you for your post.

May I clarify that I only follow the scriptures, including Qoran.

God directly informs us, all humans, that He has taught us and equipped us to distinguish things (55:4), and He commands us to use our brains, eyesight and hearing to study, reflect, analyse, and judge for ourselves (17:36, 2:148) . He directly asks all humans to read Qoran from cover to cover (73:4), study it (47:24), meditate with it (17:79), and increase their knowledge (20:114). He praises the thinkers and the knowledgeable (29:49, 3:191), and He links reflecting and examining resources to seek knowledge with the right faith (3:18), wisdom, good vision, good logic, and intelligence (39:18, 38:20, 38:45, 2:269, 13:19). He commands all humans, not just an exclusive group, to follow Qoran (7:3, 6:155), proclaim Qoran (3:187), and to remind with Qoran (6:70, 50:45).

Additionally, God declares that the message in Qoran is for all the people (81:27, 38:87) and Qoran is the only source of religious guidance (18:27). He also states that He made Qoran easy to learn (54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40). He emphasizes that it is made of straightforward teachings except for some allegories that our salvation doesn't rely on (3:7). He proclaims it to be in perfect Arabic tongue without any ambiguity or contradictions (39:28, 4:82). He thus proclaims Himself as both Author and Teacher of Qoran (10:37, 55:1-2). He also narrates examples and displays scenes from the past and the future to teach us that no soul is responsible for another (53:38), and we are equally accountable for our own deeds (64:7) as we return to Him individually, not in the company of our explainers or idols (6:94). With all of these commands, teachings, and descriptions, why would any sane mind consider a third party besides God to learn Qoran when God's words are revealed and taught in black and white by Him?

The best advice is seek the best explanation of the verses of Qoran?  From the only explainer!
" It is God who will explain it".Why should I follow anyone else?

I am simply a " Believer".in What the scripture confirms for me.

With respect and friendship.
GOD bless you.
Peace.

[The account of Jesus' death in the Quran is startling. It states: "they never killed Jesus; they never crucified him; they were only made to think that they did." : They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him; they never crucified him; they were only made to think that they did. Indeed, those who speculate about him are full of doubt about their own accounts; they are never sure. They only conjecture. What is absolutely certain is: they never killed him. Instead, God raised him to Him. God is Almighty, Most Wise. [Quran 4:157-158]Undoubtedly, this Quranic narration represents a new and profound account of the death of Jesus. It is bound to shock most people, so some explanation is in order.The Quran consistently talks about the `real person,' i.e., the soul, when talking about anyone. The Quran differentiates between two human entities: a temporary entity, the body, and an eternal entity which is `the person.' The temporary entity is considered a shell or a garment worn by the lasting entity. The Quran does not regard this temporary shell as `the person.' The importance of the body, or the person's outer shell, is in serving the real person by effecting sufficient growth and development of the soul in preparation for the real, eternal life (of the Hereafter). If we look upon one's body as a wild horse, one attains the required growth and development by taming and controlling the whims of this horse. At the end of one's predetermined interim in this life, one sheds the shell and moves on towards the eternal Hereafter; the body's role ends.Thus, when the Quran states that "they never crucified Jesus; they never killed him," the word "him" here refers to the real Jesus, not his body.The body may be present somewhere, but the person may or may not be present with it. People who are familiar with `out-of-body experiences' know that the body is nothing more than a garment or a physical vehicle for the soul. In out-of-body experiences, the intellect remains with the person, not with the body. Those who practice out-of-body (or astral projection) experiments often describe the body as just laying there like an inanimate object.The Quran explains clearly that Jesus, the real person, was `raised to God' prior to any torture or crucifixion. Those who believed that they were torturing or crucifying Jesus were in fact dealing with Jesus' body, an empty shell devoid of feelings and knowledge.Being `raised to God' indicates another important fact-that the righteous go directly to heaven, and do not wait for the Day of Resurrection to attain Paradise:THE RIGHTEOUS DO NOT DIE;When their lives on this earth come to the predetermined end, the angel of death simply invites them to leave their earthly bodies and move on to Heaven, the same Paradise where Adam and Eve once lived. Heaven has been in existence since Adam and Eve. We learn from 89:27-30 that God invites the believers' souls: "Enter My Paradise." The above quote is from an article written by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, the discoverer of the Quran's mathematical code (SUBMITTERS PERSPECTIVE, Masjid Tucson, Feb., 1990). He continues: As far as people on earth are concerned, the righteous "die." People do not realize that the righteous simply leave their bodies, and move on to Paradise....The righteous go to Paradise, while their friends and relatives are still living on earth. Like going to Hawaii and waiting for us there. He cites several verses which are well worth examining: Give good news to those who believe and work righteousness that they will have gardens with flowing streams. When provided with provisions of fruits therein, they will say, "This is what was given to us in the past." They will be given similar provisions, and they will have pure spouses therein. They abide thereinforever. [Quran 2:25]The indication in this verse is that the righteous are in a place similar to gardens of the Hereafter, with similar provisions. This would certainly be the case if they had been waiting in the Garden of Eden (also called Paradise), until the Day of Resurrection. Coupled with the following verses, that is the clear conclusion:Do not think that those who are killed in the cause of God are dead; they are alive at their Lord, being provided for. [Quran 3:169]Do not say about those who are killed in the cause of God, "They are dead." For they are alive, but you do not perceive. [Quran 2:154](At the time of his death) he was told, "Enter Paradise." He said, "I wish my people (on earth) knew that my Lord has forgiven me and honored me." [Quran 36:26-27]In the case of Jesus, all these mathematically coded verses show that God raised the real person, Jesus' soul, leaving his body for the torturers and crucifiers. Thus, they never tortured Jesus. They never crucified him. He was gone long before any torture or crucifixion of his body:They plotted and schemed, but so did God; God is the best schemer. Thus, God said, "O Jesus, I am putting you to death; raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will make those who follow you high above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you. Then I will judge among you concerning your disputes." [Quran 3:54-55]It is astonishing to find this phenomenon, the separation of the real person from the still living body, indicated in the New Testament, and even more specifically stated in some apocryphal literature. There is an especially straightforward reference to this phenomenon reported by James Brashler in THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977).The Nag Hammadi Library is a collection of ancient documents unearthed at Nag Hammadi, Egypt. They are described as containing "the sacred scriptures of the Gnostic movement that emerged and rapidly grew in the cradle of civilization at the time of Jesus and early Christianity. Its codices are a priceless periscope into the tumultuous world of ideas brewing during one of civilization's great turning points."James Brashler describes a vision seen by the apostle Peter, in his introduction to the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter (Ibid., p. 339):The first visionary scene, is depicting the hostile priests and people about to kill Jesus (72,4-9)....The second scene (81,3-14) describes Peter's vision of the crucifixion of Jesus. The accompanying interpretation by Jesus makes a distinction between the external physical form and the living Jesus; the latter stands nearby laughing at his ignorant persecutors. A clear distinction is thus made in this ancient literature, very close to the time of Jesus, between "the external physical form," i.e., the body of Jesus, and "the living Jesus." According to this narration, the real person of Jesus was unphased by the torturers and persecutors of his soulless body.Looking at the translation of the Apocalypse of Peter itself (Ibid., p. 344), we find the startling vision of Peter:When he had said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said, "What do I see, O Lord, that it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing, on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?" The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshy part." [Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81]A careful examination of the Gospels of Mark and Luke reveals that Jesus was in fact gone prior to crucifixion. He did not respond to the surrounding chaos. This confirms the apocryphal account reported in the Nag Hammadi Library, and agrees with the mathematically authenticated account of the Quran:The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you." But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response. [Mark 15:3-5]Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracle. He questioned Jesus at considerable length, but Jesus made no answer. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult.... [Luke 23:8-11]Putting all these accounts together, this possible picture emerges:1. The human being consists of two main distinct entities:a. the body, which serves as a mere shell or garment, andb. the soul, which is the real person.2. In accordance with a predetermined plan, the time came for Jesus to complete his mission as God's messenger to the Children of Israel and as the Messiah. This coincided with the scheme of Jesus' adversaries to crucify him. Just before executing their plot, God's plan was implemented, and Jesus the real person was summoned or "raised to God."3. Jesus' body was left for his persecutors to torture and crucify; they were dealing with an empty shell devoid of all feelings or understanding.4. Thus, the Quran's mathematically coded statements that "they never killed Jesus, they never crucified him; they were led to believe that they did," are accurate and proven facts.MODERN DEMONSTRATIONRashad Khalifa draws an interesting parallel between what he understands to be the case in Jesus' death, and that of a modern patient who underwent an historical surgical procedure. (See Khalifa's QURAN THE FINAL TESTAMENT, Ibid. Appendix 22, p. 667)On November 25, 1984, William J. Schroeder, from Jasper, Indiana, received an artificial heart at Humana Heart Institute International of Louisville, Kentucky. The NEW YORK TIMES of Monday, November 26, 1984 published the following news item:SURGEONS IMPLANT MECHANICAL PUMP TO REPLACE HEARTLOUISVILLE, KY, Nov 25 -- A 17-member surgical team today removed the diseased heart of a 52-year old man and replaced it with a plastic and metal pump....Dr. Devries leaned over Mr. Schroeder and said, "Everything went well, perfectly." On Wednesday, December 12, 1984, the 18th day after receiving the artificial heart, Mr. Schroeder was so normal and so alert that when President Reagan talked with him he complained about a delay in sending his Social Security disability check. On the nineteenth day, December 13, 1984, the world was told that Mr. Schroeder "suffered a stroke." What really happened was that Mr. Schroeder, the real person, departed. William J. Schroeder died. His body, the empty shell, continued to function through artificial means. The artificial heart continued to pump, and all other life processes of Mr. Schroeder's body continued to work. Significantly, from that moment on, he never recognized the date, the day or time. The WASHINGTON POST of Friday, December 14, 1984 published the following news:LOUISVILLE, Dec. 13---William J. Schroeder, who became the world's second recipient of an artificial heart 18 days ago, tonight suffered a stroke in his hospital bed as he ate dinner with his wife, doctors reported.... (Dr. A. M.) Lansing replied, "unequivocally, no," when asked if the stroke could have been a result of Schroeder's many activities recently. These included a telephone conversation with President Reagan Wednesday and fast government action earlier today to deliver a Social Security disability check that he had told Reagan was overdue.At Humana Hospital - Audubon, where the implant took place, Lansing said Schroeder was talking to his wife when "she noticed suddenly he stopped feeding himself and was just holding his food in his right hand." He appeared "drowsy, his eyes rolled back, and he became somewhat limp," Lansing said. The stroke was not "life threatening," Lansing said. Shortly afterward, Schroeder was somewhat "stuporous" and "not talking intelligently," Lansing said.In retrospect, it is obvious that William J. Schroeder actually left his body on the nineteenth day (December 13, 1984) after receiving the artificial heart on November 25, 1984. Schroeder was raised to God about 600 days-19 months-before his body finally ceased to function.According to the Quran, this is precisely what happened to Jesus: he was raised to God before the crucifixion of his empty body:They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him; they never crucified him; they were led to believe that they did.... For sure, they never killed him. Instead, God raised him to Him. God is Almighty, Most Wise. [Quran 4:157-158]]

Greetigs all.

I hope I am not going off topic here.Apologies if so

Here is another theory  by Lisa spray to add to your collection:

The account of Jesus' death in the Quran is startling. It states: "they never killed Jesus; they never crucified him; they were only made to think that they did." : They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him; they never crucified him; they were only made to think that they did. Indeed, those who speculate about him are full of doubt about their own accounts; they are never sure. They only conjecture. What is absolutely certain is: they never killed him. Instead, God raised him to Him. God is Almighty, Most Wise. [Quran 4:157-158]

Undoubtedly, this Quranic narration represents a new and profound account of the death of Jesus. It is bound to shock most people, so some explanation is in order.

The Quran consistently talks about the `real person,' i.e., the soul, when talking about anyone. The Quran differentiates between two human entities: a temporary entity, the body, and an eternal entity which is `the person.' The temporary entity is considered a shell or a garment worn by the lasting entity. The Quran does not regard this temporary shell as `the person.' The importance of the body, or the person's outer shell, is in serving the real person by effecting sufficient growth and development of the soul in preparation for the real, eternal life (of the Hereafter). If we look upon one's body as a wild horse, one attains the required growth and development by taming and controlling the whims of this horse. At the end of one's predetermined interim in this life, one sheds the shell and moves on towards the eternal Hereafter; the body's role ends.

Thus, when the Quran states that "they never crucified Jesus; they never killed him," the word "him" here refers to the real Jesus, not his body.

The body may be present somewhere, but the person may or may not be present with it. People who are familiar with `out-of-body experiences' know that the body is nothing more than a garment or a physical vehicle for the soul. In out-of-body experiences, the intellect remains with the person, not with the body. Those who practice out-of-body (or astral projection) experiments often describe the body as just laying there like an inanimate object.

The Quran explains clearly that Jesus, the real person, was `raised to God' prior to any torture or crucifixion. Those who believed that they were torturing or crucifying Jesus were in fact dealing with Jesus' body, an empty shell devoid of feelings and knowledge.

Being `raised to God' indicates another important fact-that the righteous go directly to heaven, and do not wait for the Day of Resurrection to attain Paradise:

THE RIGHTEOUS DO NOT DIE;

When their lives on this earth come to the predetermined end, the angel of death simply invites them to leave their earthly bodies and move on to Heaven, the same Paradise where Adam and Eve once lived. Heaven has been in existence since Adam and Eve. We learn from 89:27-30 that God invites the believers' souls: "Enter My Paradise." The above quote is from an article written by Dr. Rashad Khalifa, the discoverer of the Quran's mathematical code (SUBMITTERS PERSPECTIVE, Masjid Tucson, Feb., 1990). He continues: As far as people on earth are concerned, the righteous "die." People do not realize that the righteous simply leave their bodies, and move on to Paradise....The righteous go to Paradise, while their friends and relatives are still living on earth. Like going to Hawaii and waiting for us there. He cites several verses which are well worth examining: Give good news to those who believe and work righteousness that they will have gardens with flowing streams. When provided with provisions of fruits therein, they will say, "This is what was given to us in the past." They will be given similar provisions, and they will have pure spouses therein. They abide therein

forever. [Quran 2:25]

The indication in this verse is that the righteous are in a place similar to gardens of the Hereafter, with similar provisions. This would certainly be the case if they had been waiting in the Garden of Eden (also called Paradise), until the Day of Resurrection. Coupled with the following verses, that is the clear conclusion:

Do not think that those who are killed in the cause of God are dead; they are alive at their Lord, being provided for. [Quran 3:169]

Do not say about those who are killed in the cause of God, "They are dead." For they are alive, but you do not perceive. [Quran 2:154]

(At the time of his death) he was told, "Enter Paradise." He said, "I wish my people (on earth) knew that my Lord has forgiven me and honored me." [Quran 36:26-27]

In the case of Jesus, all these mathematically coded verses show that God raised the real person, Jesus' soul, leaving his body for the torturers and crucifiers. Thus, they never tortured Jesus. They never crucified him. He was gone long before any torture or crucifixion of his body:

They plotted and schemed, but so did God; God is the best schemer. Thus, God said, "O Jesus, I am putting you to death; raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will make those who follow you high above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you. Then I will judge among you concerning your disputes." [Quran 3:54-55]

It is astonishing to find this phenomenon, the separation of the real person from the still living body, indicated in the New Testament, and even more specifically stated in some apocryphal literature. There is an especially straightforward reference to this phenomenon reported by James Brashler in THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977).

The Nag Hammadi Library is a collection of ancient documents unearthed at Nag Hammadi, Egypt. They are described as containing "the sacred scriptures of the Gnostic movement that emerged and rapidly grew in the cradle of civilization at the time of Jesus and early Christianity. Its codices are a priceless periscope into the tumultuous world of ideas brewing during one of civilization's great turning points."

James Brashler describes a vision seen by the apostle Peter, in his introduction to the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter (Ibid., p. 339):

The first visionary scene, is depicting the hostile priests and people about to kill Jesus (72,4-9)....The second scene (81,3-14) describes Peter's vision of the crucifixion of Jesus. The accompanying interpretation by Jesus makes a distinction between the external physical form and the living Jesus; the latter stands nearby laughing at his ignorant persecutors. A clear distinction is thus made in this ancient literature, very close to the time of Jesus, between "the external physical form," i.e., the body of Jesus, and "the living Jesus." According to this narration, the real person of Jesus was unphased by the torturers and persecutors of his soulless body.

Looking at the translation of the Apocalypse of Peter itself (Ibid., p. 344), we find the startling vision of Peter:

When he had said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said, "What do I see, O Lord, that it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing, on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?" The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshy part." [Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81]

A careful examination of the Gospels of Mark and Luke reveals that Jesus was in fact gone prior to crucifixion. He did not respond to the surrounding chaos. This confirms the apocryphal account reported in the Nag Hammadi Library, and agrees with the mathematically authenticated account of the Quran:

The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you." But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response. [Mark 15:3-5]

Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracle. He questioned Jesus at considerable length, but Jesus made no answer. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult.... [Luke 23:8-11]

Putting all these accounts together, this possible picture emerges:

1. The human being consists of two main distinct entities:

a. the body, which serves as a mere shell or garment, and

b. the soul, which is the real person.

2. In accordance with a predetermined plan, the time came for Jesus to complete his mission as God's messenger to the Children of Israel and as the Messiah. This coincided with the scheme of Jesus' adversaries to crucify him. Just before executing their plot, God's plan was implemented, and Jesus the real person was summoned or "raised to God."

3. Jesus' body was left for his persecutors to torture and crucify; they were dealing with an empty shell devoid of all feelings or understanding.

4. Thus, the Quran's mathematically coded statements that "they never killed Jesus, they never crucified him; they were led to believe that they did," are accurate and proven facts.

MODERN DEMONSTRATION

Rashad Khalifa draws an interesting parallel between what he understands to be the case in Jesus' death, and that of a modern patient who underwent an historical surgical procedure. (See Khalifa's QURAN THE FINAL TESTAMENT, Ibid. Appendix 22, p. 667)

On November 25, 1984, William J. Schroeder, from Jasper, Indiana, received an artificial heart at Humana Heart Institute International of Louisville, Kentucky. The NEW YORK TIMES of Monday, November 26, 1984 published the following news item:

SURGEONS IMPLANT MECHANICAL PUMP TO REPLACE HEARTLOUISVILLE, KY, Nov 25 -- A 17-member surgical team today removed the diseased heart of a 52-year old man and replaced it with a plastic and metal pump....Dr. Devries leaned over Mr. Schroeder and said, "Everything went well, perfectly." On Wednesday, December 12, 1984, the 18th day after receiving the artificial heart, Mr. Schroeder was so normal and so alert that when President Reagan talked with him he complained about a delay in sending his Social Security disability check. On the nineteenth day, December 13, 1984, the world was told that Mr. Schroeder "suffered a stroke." What really happened was that Mr. Schroeder, the real person, departed. William J. Schroeder died. His body, the empty shell, continued to function through artificial means. The artificial heart continued to pump, and all other life processes of Mr. Schroeder's body continued to work. Significantly, from that moment on, he never recognized the date, the day or time. The WASHINGTON POST of Friday, December 14, 1984 published the following news:

LOUISVILLE, Dec. 13---William J. Schroeder, who became the world's second recipient of an artificial heart 18 days ago, tonight suffered a stroke in his hospital bed as he ate dinner with his wife, doctors reported.... (Dr. A. M.) Lansing replied, "unequivocally, no," when asked if the stroke could have been a result of Schroeder's many activities recently. These included a telephone conversation with President Reagan Wednesday and fast government action earlier today to deliver a Social Security disability check that he had told Reagan was overdue.

At Humana Hospital - Audubon, where the implant took place, Lansing said Schroeder was talking to his wife when "she noticed suddenly he stopped feeding himself and was just holding his food in his right hand." He appeared "drowsy, his eyes rolled back, and he became somewhat limp," Lansing said. The stroke was not "life threatening," Lansing said. Shortly afterward, Schroeder was somewhat "stuporous" and "not talking intelligently," Lansing said.

In retrospect, it is obvious that William J. Schroeder actually left his body on the nineteenth day (December 13, 1984) after receiving the artificial heart on November 25, 1984. Schroeder was raised to God about 600 days-19 months-before his body finally ceased to function.

According to the Quran, this is precisely what happened to Jesus: he was raised to God before the crucifixion of his empty body:

They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him; they never crucified him; they were led to believe that they did.... For sure, they never killed him. Instead, God raised him to Him. God is Almighty, Most Wise. [Quran 4:157-158]

Draw your own conclusion! as per 17:36.

GOD bless .
Peace to all.

[GOD wishes no hardship imposed on us in practicing our religion. Any suggestion in mythology as to how to perform some of the details that move us in the direction of making the religion difficult, cannot be from GOD and is not approved by Him.]

Greetings all.

Allow me to give another " tafseer" for salat:


GOD wishes no hardship imposed on us in practicing our religion. Any suggestion in mythology as to how to perform some of the details that move us in the direction of making the religion difficult, cannot be from GOD and is not approved by Him. 

It is simple, intention to do your "salat" then follow Qoran:

GOD says in Qoran [5:6] when you observe the "salat":
1. Wash your face, and we have 1 face.
2. Wash your arms to the elbow, and we have 2 arms.
3. Wipe your head, and we have 1 head.
4. Wipe/Wash your feet to the ankles, and we have 2 feet.

1 + 2 + 1 + 2 = 6
Before performing our  5 daily "salat", we do the above 6 actions in our ablution. This is why Almighty GOD has placed the instruction for ablution in 5:6. People should be able to do these actions comfortably, without any hardship( and if they cannot, they use "dry ablution"-Tayammum"). People are men, women, left-handed, right-handed, tall, short, fat, skinny, and all sort of other things. How to do "salat" is well preserved for generations confirmed by Qoran.

In regard to our feet, some people might say that the Quran says we should wipe our feet to the ankles instead of washing them. GOD says that He loves those who are clean. The believers should use their own judgment, this is a test for all of us. We must not create division between ourselves dueling on this issue. Regardless of washing our feet or wiping them, GOD will not throw our "salat" to waist.

Our intention  and timing must be resolute and  our "salat" must be dedicated to GOD ALONE.

God bless you all.

Peace.

Thank you for your welcome Saba.

GOD bless you.

Peace.

[Just to clarify for you,good logic is the same person as " good logic" from free minds also.]

Greetings Saba,all.

Just to clarify for you,good logic is the same person as " good logic" from free minds also.

I thank the moderators of this forum for their acceptance and warm welcome

I hope to discuss/share/learn  with/from the brothers and sisters here.

GOD bless you all.

Peace.

[شَرَعَ لَكُم مِنَ الدّينِ ما وَصّىٰ بِهِ نوحًا وَالَّذى أَوحَينا إِلَيكَ وَما وَصَّينا بِهِ إِبرٰهيمَ وَموسىٰ وَعيسىٰ أَن أَقيمُوا الدّينَ وَلا تَتَفَرَّقوا فيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى المُشرِكينَ ما تَدعوهُم إِلَيهِ اللَّهُ يَجتَبى إِلَيهِ مَن يَشاءُ وَيَهدى إِلَيهِ مَن يُنيبُ]

Greetings all.

The only difference I can see is the " language" difference.

" The God" is the same,and the "message" is the same :

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِنَ الدّينِ ما وَصّىٰ بِهِ نوحًا وَالَّذى أَوحَينا إِلَيكَ وَما وَصَّينا بِهِ إِبرٰهيمَ وَموسىٰ وَعيسىٰ أَن أَقيمُوا الدّينَ وَلا تَتَفَرَّقوا فيهِ كَبُرَ عَلَى المُشرِكينَ ما تَدعوهُم إِلَيهِ اللَّهُ يَجتَبى إِلَيهِ مَن يَشاءُ وَيَهدى إِلَيهِ مَن يُنيبُ

42:13″ HE ( GOD) decreed for you the same "Deen" (message) decreed for Noah and what We inspired to you(Muhammed) and what We decreed for Abraham, Moses and Jesus:" You shall uphold this one "Deen"(message) and do not divide it." The idol worshipers will greatly resent what you are inviting them to do. GOD redeems to Himself only those who totally submit."

In my opinion the misunderstanding of the message creates different gods and different religions.

GOD less.

Peace.

Greetings Ismail.

Mathematics is the universal language . 2+2=4 does not need to be translated.It is also the language of science.

This Scientific age is finding everything created by GOD  has been  measured accurately. Mathematically described here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZQoaI-K3ro

Can we say for sure the scripture is exempt ?

It does not mean we accept anything without checking ,nor does it mean we reject without checking also.

While being careful, we must not have " my mind is made up attitude."

GOD bless you.

Peace.