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« on: April 07, 2017, 03:45:42 AM »
Peace Brothers Joseph and Rafiqqq.
Thank you both for your contribution.
Brother Joseph I read your post reply . I am still worried about the context of 4:158.
The most important question to ask is:
Was Jesus crucified?
Historical texts (even from neutral sources as well as Christians and some Jewish writers) confirm a crucifixion.
Was it the body of Jesus on that cross?
Here is verse 4:157:
وَقَولِهِم إِنّا قَتَلنَا المَسيحَ عيسَى ابنَ مَريَمَ رَسولَ اللَّهِ وَما قَتَلوهُ وَما صَلَبوهُ وَلٰكِن شُبِّهَ لَهُم وَإِنَّ الَّذينَ اختَلَفوا فيهِ لَفى شَكٍّ مِنهُ ما لَهُم بِهِ مِن عِلمٍ إِلَّا اتِّباعَ الظَّنِّ وَما قَتَلوهُ يَقينًا
This verse seems to be saying the Jesus they say they killed,they have not really killed him. In fact for certain they did not kill him but (4:158) GOD "Rafaahu Ilayhi"...GOD raised him up to Him.
Both verses give the context along with 3:55:
إِذ قالَ اللَّهُ يٰعيسىٰ إِنّى مُتَوَفّيكَ وَرافِعُكَ إِلَىَّ وَمُطَهِّرُكَ مِنَ الَّذينَ كَفَروا وَجاعِلُ الَّذينَ اتَّبَعوكَ فَوقَ الَّذينَ كَفَروا إِلىٰ يَومِ القِيٰمَةِ ثُمَّ إِلَىَّ مَرجِعُكُم فَأَحكُمُ بَينَكُم فيما كُنتُم فيهِ تَختَلِفونَ
GOD also says Jesus died and Jesus was raised up to Him.
The question that follows here is: Did Jesus die? How?
Or a more likely question: Which Jesus died and which Jesus was raised up?
For me ,the following quote from Lisa Spray connects the verses without a contradiction :
The account of Jesus' death in the Quran is startling. It states: "they never killed Jesus; they never crucified him; they were only made to think that they did." : They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God. In fact, they never killed him; they never crucified him; they were only made to think that they did. Indeed, those who speculate about him are full of doubt about their own accounts; they are never sure. They only conjecture. What is absolutely certain is: they never killed him. Instead, God raised him to Him. God is Almighty, Most Wise. [Quran 4:157-158]
Undoubtedly, this Quranic narration represents a new and profound account of the death of Jesus. It is bound to shock most people, so some explanation is in order.
The Quran consistently talks about the `real person,' i.e., the soul, when talking about anyone. The Quran differentiates between two human entities: a temporary entity, the body, and an eternal entity which is `the person.' The temporary entity is considered a shell or a garment worn by the lasting entity. The Quran does not regard this temporary shell as `the person.' The importance of the body, or the person's outer shell, is in serving the real person by effecting sufficient growth and development of the soul in preparation for the real, eternal life (of the Hereafter). If we look upon one's body as a wild horse, one attains the required growth and development by taming and controlling the whims of this horse. At the end of one's predetermined interim in this life, one sheds the shell and moves on towards the eternal Hereafter; the body's role ends.
Thus, when the Quran states that "they never crucified Jesus; they never killed him," the word "him" here refers to the real Jesus, not his body.
The body may be present somewhere, but the person may or may not be present with it. People who are familiar with `out-of-body experiences' know that the body is nothing more than a garment or a physical vehicle for the soul. In out-of-body experiences, the intellect remains with the person, not with the body. Those who practice out-of-body (or astral projection) experiments often describe the body as just laying there like an inanimate object.
The Quran explains clearly that Jesus, the real person, was `raised to God' prior to any torture or crucifixion. Those who believed that they were torturing or crucifying Jesus were in fact dealing with Jesus' body, an empty shell devoid of feelings and knowledge..
...In the case of Jesus, all these verses show that God raised the real person, Jesus' soul, leaving his body for the torturers and crucifiers. Thus, they never tortured Jesus. They never crucified him. He was gone long before any torture or crucifixion of his body:
They plotted and schemed, but so did God; God is the best schemer. Thus, God said, "O Jesus, I am putting you to death; raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers. I will make those who follow you high above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the ultimate destiny of all of you. Then I will judge among you concerning your disputes." [Quran 3:54-55]
It is astonishing to find this phenomenon, the separation of the real person from the still living body, indicated in the New Testament, and even more specifically stated in some apocryphal literature. There is an especially straightforward reference to this phenomenon reported by James Brashler in THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977).
The Nag Hammadi Library is a collection of ancient documents unearthed at Nag Hammadi, Egypt. They are described as containing "the sacred scriptures of the Gnostic movement that emerged and rapidly grew in the cradle of civilization at the time of Jesus and early Christianity. Its codices are a priceless periscope into the tumultuous world of ideas brewing during one of civilization's great turning points."
James Brashler describes a vision seen by the apostle Peter, in his introduction to the Gnostic Apocalypse of Peter (Ibid., p. 339):
The first visionary scene, is depicting the hostile priests and people about to kill Jesus (72,4-9)....The second scene (81,3-14) describes Peter's vision of the crucifixion of Jesus. The accompanying interpretation by Jesus makes a distinction between the external physical form and the living Jesus; the latter stands nearby laughing at his ignorant persecutors. A clear distinction is thus made in this ancient literature, very close to the time of Jesus, between "the external physical form," i.e., the body of Jesus, and "the living Jesus." According to this narration, the real person of Jesus was unphased by the torturers and persecutors of his soulless body.
Looking at the translation of the Apocalypse of Peter itself (Ibid., p. 344), we find the startling vision of Peter:
When he had said those things, I saw him seemingly being seized by them. And I said, "What do I see, O Lord, that it is you yourself whom they take, and that you are grasping me? Or who is this one, glad and laughing, on the tree? And is it another one whose feet and hands they are striking?" The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshy part." [Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81]
A careful examination of the Gospels of Mark and Luke reveals that Jesus was in fact gone prior to crucifixion. He did not respond to the surrounding chaos. This confirms the apocryphal account reported in the Nag Hammadi Library, and agrees with the mathematically authenticated account of the Quran:
The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you." But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response. [Mark 15:3-5]
Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracle. He questioned Jesus at considerable length, but Jesus made no answer. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult.... [Luke 23:8-11]
Putting all these accounts together, this possible picture emerges:
1. The human being consists of two main distinct entities:
a. the body, which serves as a mere shell or garment, and
b. the soul, which is the real person.
2. In accordance with a predetermined plan, the time came for Jesus to complete his mission as God's messenger to the Children of Israel and as the Messiah. This coincided with the scheme of Jesus' adversaries to crucify him. Just before executing their plot, God's plan was implemented, and Jesus the real person was summoned or "raised to God."
3. Jesus' body was left for his persecutors to torture and crucify; they were dealing with an empty shell devoid of all feelings or understanding.
4. Thus, the Quran's statements that "they never killed Jesus, they never crucified him; they were led to believe that they did," are accurate facts.
Of course much study will be needed to confirm such a version.
In fact the questions about Jesus will only increase.
Thank you both for your time and effort.
GOD bless you both.
Peace.
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