Messages

76

General Discussions / Re: Does each people judge by what they have been given?

« on: January 28, 2015, 06:11:11 AM »

Selam alaikum,
Reading the last posts I am a bit frustrated and a bit sad. Brother Donald, why are you so harsh? Maybe you're not aware of this, but you sound very severe in your posts. Be careful when you talk about brother Joseph, for many reasons, but first of all, because you're wrong in what you state about him. Muslims in general had all the answers in their buffet, in a book they keep covered in fine cloth. That book was meant to be our religious guidance and our main source of laws. Everything else outside this book, every attempt to interpret a verse of this book is simply an opinion or an hypothesis, which comes from a fallible source - human mind. This is what brother Joseph is talking about: respect the opinions of scholars and study the Quran for yourself, but be aware that their opinions and your conclusions can't equal the Quran, especially if the Quran contradicts that opinion/conclusion. Many muslims are aware of this, I guarantee you (it's more common sense that you think), but they were meant to believe that onlly scholars or mullahs can understand the Quran, only they can reach conclusions, and only what they say has to be applied. Even if it sounds unquranic, nevermind, they are more learned than you, they know what they're doing, so you do as they say. Not just me, but I guess most of members of this forum at first had difficulties to accept that Bukhari≠Muhammad and Hadith≠Quran. Many muslims have the 'common sense' I'm talking about, but they have difficulties to denounce it, because they can be persecuted or killed.
I have read probably 99% of brother Joseph's articles, and nowhere does he make such statements that 'x is wrong' or 'y is right'. He simply analyses popular beliefs and practices and searches for a Quranic base of them. If there's no Quranic base, then it can't be something our prophet preached, or God declared. Simple as that. It's not brother Joseph that says this, it's Al Furqan that says it.
Besides, are you sure you have known God enough to question his justice and mercy, and the reasons he has to punish or reward someone? Are you sure you have known God (his feelings, his personality, etc) good enough to doubt his justice and mercy? Because i think you didn't. As an albanian saying goes "you know 1 thing bout you don't know 10 others".
Selam.

77

Prophets and Messengers / Re: Were all the Prophets mentioned in the Quran Infallible?

« on: January 28, 2015, 05:39:27 AM »

Selam,
Satan's goal is to make people revolt against God and question his justice and mercy, just like he did with Adam and Eve - he made them greedy for more, and he made them believe God had been unjust to them. That's what he tries to do with all mankind. Satan had misguided almost all of Israel at that time. Only few believers were still trying hard to live according to Holy Scriptures. Mary's mother, being a devoted believer, was aware of this, and prayed to God to protect her daughter and her offspring from Satan's misguidance. It's just a prayer of a mother for her child. It's not a statement that this child (or his mother) was infallible.
Your sister Seraphina.

78

General Discussions / Re: mumin and muslim

« on: January 27, 2015, 10:54:58 PM »

Salam,
Firstly, we should keep in mind that when the Quran was being revealed, the primary audience consisted of Arab pagans (idol worshipers), and the jews and/or christians. First of them are called 'disbelievers', and the second 'people of the book', which means people to whom the previous divine books were sent to, and/or people who believe the veracity of previous divine books. Among the category of 'people of the book' were some who had forsaken the laws of God contained in their books and were deceived, And there were also among the people of the book who still believed in God and were submitted to him, and tried their best to uphold the laws of their scriptures. They needed time to examine the facts that Muhammad was indeed sent from the same God they believed, who had previously spoken to Noah, Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Joshua, David, Solomon, Jesus, and so on.
So, a muslim is one who submits to God and his beliefs and lifestyle are based in the laws given by Him through prophets in His scriptures. Noah's followers were muslims, Abraham's followers were muslims, Moses's followers were muslims, Jesus's followers were muslims, and so on. A follower of prophet Muhammad is also a muslim, but he is also named 'mumin'. A 'mumin' is a muslim who lived from the time of Muhammad and on. He is a muslim because he accepts and follows previous messengers, but he is a mumin because he has known and accepted the final divine message in its perfected, universal form, (which was not reached from a follower of Jesus for example). Note also the way the Quran addresses the Muhammad's followers in this verse: "The Prophet is closer to the believers (bil-mu'minīna) than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers."(Al-Ahzab, 6)(Yusuf Ali translation). Muhammad's wives are 'mothers of mumins', not mothers of every muslim since Noah's time, but only of the muslims from Muhammad's time and on.
Secondly, one may be a muslim but not yet a mumin. In what sense? well, one may have submitted to God and may show obedience with practice and purpose, but true 'imaan' (deep belief) has still not enetered deep in their hearts. For instance, he might have submitted to God, and his practices and purposes are towards God's pleasure, but yet when he is affected by a disgrace he's despaired and feels himself far away from God. Or he's still afraid from his enemies and he can't put his trust completely to God. You get the idea. It is ilustrated best in this verse: "The desert Arabs say, "We believe." Say, "Ye have no faith; but ye (only)say, 'We have submitted our wills to Allah,' For not yet has Faith entered your hearts. But if ye obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not belittle aught of your deeds: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."(Al-Hujurat, 14)(Yusuf Ali translation).
Planting the imaan deep in our hearts, developing a steadfast belief and rely on God is not something easy, it requires patience, work with self-improvement, and studying the scriptures which help us know God better how he's like, what has he done for humanity in the past and what will he do in the future, because knowing these things about God is the basis of everything else - we can't love and serve a God we don't know. And this can't be achieved overnight. There are people who take these steps easier and in less time, and there are others who need more time and more effort. God knows us best (as he is the one who knows how he has created us). What grade of 'mumin' you reach and what depth has imaan entered your heart is something you need to work on. But the minimum He expects from us is that if we can't be steadfast mumin, at least be muslims (that is, to submit ourselves to him and practice as best as we can). This is why in this verse He uses the word 'muslim', not 'mumin':"O you who believe! Fear Allah as He should be feared, and die not except as muslims(muslimoon)" (Ali'Imran, 102). He expects from us that which is within our possibilities. Reaching the highest rank of 'mumin' can't be easy for everyone, but becoming a muslim is. Thank God He made obligatory for me only that which I can surely acheieve, and if I can achieve more, that's even better! I am a muslim but I try my best everyday to become a mumin as well, so may God help me, and you brothers and sisters too.
I tried my best to be as correct as possible, and I hope I was of help,
Your sister Seraphina.

*Reference: "Muslim and Mu'min (believer) - The difference" by Joseph Islam

79

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 23, 2015, 08:05:59 AM »

You're welcome bro Duster I feel exactly like you. On each and every quiet period of brother Joseph, I can't help it: I miss his posts and his guidance. Then I remember that he has many commitments and a busy schedule. But, I have known him enough to know that he would never give up on us, at least not this way. And then, since I can't do anything else, I pray to God for him (believe it or not, I pray for brother Joseph and forum members every day in my duas). Wherever brother Joseph is, whatever be his condition, may God protect him from all evil and may He bless him with health and strength to face whatever comes in his way. May God be with you, our brother Joseph, we miss you!
Shalom bro Duster, may God bless you too
Your sis Seraphina Rosa

80

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 23, 2015, 05:00:16 AM »

Brother Duster, I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but in case you didn't, please don't get yourself exhausted without need. Goodlogic was shown facts his views are wrong. It's not that he doesn't see he's wrong, it's that he doesn't want to see, because the facts shown to him contradict what he wants to believe. Brother Joseph went through this many times before, if he couldn't convince him, noone can. Shalom

81

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 22, 2015, 12:33:34 AM »

There is no use brother Duster, he pretends he's not seeing and he's not hearing, because what he sees and what he hears doesn't fitt with what he wants to believe. If brother Joseph couldn't convince him in numerous posts, then noone can convince him. As far as I'm concerned, he's free to believe 19er's ideas, I'm ok with it, as long as he doesn't bring them up to me (in the answers to my questions).
Shalom,
Your sister Seraphina

82

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 20, 2015, 11:29:47 AM »

Well, there is someone who fits this description perfectly. There is someone who tried to twist the Quran with his tongue (3:78) so it would fit his belief that 2 of quranic verses are false. So, he's not guided by God in his teachings, because if he was, he would teach us "according to the Scriptures you preach and the teaching you learn" (3:79). Can you guess who he is? His teachings violate the work of Gabriel in Quran's transmittion and prophet Muhammad in the correctness of preaching it (3:80),(which by the way we can't idolise, but can give credit and respect to their work).
By trying to beat me with these verses, you're beating yourself. How can you not see yet that the more you defend your 19-based theories, the more they crumble?
I'm gonna follow brother Joseph's example in curtailing useless debates, because, thinking better, he's right: once the truth is manifested clearly, there is no use in continuing.
If the pride doesn't let you admit your mistakes, let me tell you that only God never mistakes. And you're not God.
Peace,
Seraphina

83

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 20, 2015, 07:39:34 AM »

Please brother Duster, I'm so glad you took time to express yourself, and it's a pleasure to engage in discussion with you. I totally agree with your last post, so I think brother Goodlogic needs some time to reflect about the kind of theories he supports. As for moderators, they know their work perfectly, I trust them fully.
And, this post proved to me that even though we think we know the Scriptures well, the more we study topics treated in them, the more we realise things we didn't know, or simply didn't notice. I think by discussing like this we benefit each other, but others who are searching for answers might benefit as well.

84

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 20, 2015, 05:04:26 AM »

Peace Goodlogic,
Haaaa, great. If you're so sure of it, then how can you be so ardent fan of Rashad Khalifa? You claim to take from him only what is supported from Quran. But you ignore the fact that ALL of Khalifa's theories are based upon the fact that two of the verses of the Quran are false, e.g. they are inserted there from human hand. This is how he gave us the 19 theory, and this is the basis of all of his opinions. By giving support to any of his theories, you give support to the claim that Quran contains man-inserted verses. By doing this, you claim that God almighty failed to keep his promise for preserving the Quran from corruption and falsehood. Hear the advice of your sister, get out of 19ers and stop offending God by claiming He's not capable to keep his promise. I don't understand why is it so difficult for you to see/accept that their theories are wrong.
The subject was supposed to be about the Adam and his state before eating the fruit, but we ended up talking about submitters. I'd like to apologize to QM forum moderators and other brothers and sisters.
God bless you,
Seraphina Rosa

85

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 19, 2015, 03:12:37 AM »

Thank you Good logic,
Now that I was granted permission, I would kindly ask you: Since you always emphasize the importance of following the Quran, and you deem it necessary to follow it per-letter, are you sure that it was well-preserved letter-per-letter, and not manipulated from the hands of men, and that not a single letter was lost during its compilation? Have you got any doubts about this? Because it seems you accept it as a religious source of law, but even though you don't say it, you have doubts whether it was preserved or not.
Please answer my underlined question with simply 'yes i do' or no i don't', without going on long rounds.
Peace to you too, God bless you
Your sister Seraphina

86

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 18, 2015, 09:42:02 PM »

Salam/peace to all,
Brother Good logic, would you mind If I asked you a question? would you allow me?

87

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 16, 2015, 08:04:20 AM »

I totally agree with brothers Samson and Duster. As to brother Good logic, I have noticed that he simply ignores the facts that prove him wrong. Some people just can't bear the idea that you can't be always right, and that only God is always right. I've got used to it, it's just the way he is. Don't be mad at me Good logic for expressing myself like this-I can't do anything to change your character. But I can do something to honour the holiness of the Quran: I would kindly ask you that you no longer refer me to the works of someone that proclaimed to have found falsehood inside Quran. If you can't accept the mistakes in their theories, fine, but please don't bring them in your replies to me.
God bless you
Seraphina Rosa

88

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 15, 2015, 05:53:50 AM »

Shalom brother Duster, and Peace brother Good logic
Brother Duster, thank you for your kind words Praised be our God (Alhamdulilah) if I am "a person that thinks", because that's the greatest gift Allah would have given me - the ability to reason, analyse, judge. And to be able to do it, He has been given me most of informations in the Quran. I can find out the little non mentionned peaces by using my logic/reason, and by analysing what the Quran says.
Brother Good logic, I didn't tell you this before bcs I didn't want to sound harsh, but I have the same issue like Duster: your Rashad-Khalifa-based answers. You claim to be a follower of the true Islam, and that's the goal of every member of this forum I guess. But the thing is, you keep giving support to the theories of a man who claimed to be a messenger of God and who threw doubts in veracity of Quran by claiming that two if its verses were false. Both of these claims can be proven as false from the Quran. Is this the true Islam you're talking about?
Please don't take it personally, and sorry I went off topic, but I felt it necessary to tell you this, as a sister advices her brother
God bless you both,
Your sister Seraphina

89

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 14, 2015, 06:53:00 AM »

Well, that's what Allah wants me to do brother he gave me the logic and the ability to reason, and he gave me the Quran, for which he says that it is a book to reflect upon. People want to have everything said in detail, they don't realize that Quran doesn't say everything in great detail, it is up to us to analyze and reflect upon details of events and upon the inner world of the personages that take part in it. There are things that are not told straightforward in Quran, but we find out about them after studying what we have in the Quran, and reaching our conclusions. Thank you for your kind words, peace to you too

90

General Discussions / Re: Was Adam created mortal?Or he lost immortality after disobeying God?

« on: January 13, 2015, 09:37:21 AM »

Dear brother Hamzeh, thank you for your patience in this discussion, and dear brother Samson, welcome in forum, and thanks for participating in discussion with me
I've been going through articles of brother Joseph in this topic, and in Quranic story of this event, and here are my conclusions, (which I can't guarantee are 100% correct, only God knows best, but I tried my best to understand as best as I could).
1)Universe (including earth) was created in stages. Seems that Earth was also meant to be a Paradise in stages - first, a small portion of it was Paradise, a garden in which were to be placed the two first creatures, and as they would multiply, the garden would expand, until the whole earth would turn into a Paradise.
2)God creates a creature from clay, to be placed in earth as a vicegerent. This creature, Adam, is created in the best of stature, and is given a free will. As a vicegerent of God, he would inherit the earth that would be a paradise - an eternal abode of felicity, where he wouldn't have to worry or grieve: no hunger, no thirst, no shame of nakedness, no illnesses, no death. God would provide for him all the best, eternally...as long as he proves to be exercising justly his free will. As long as he was proving to be worthy of being honored as a vicegerent on earth. And it was not a difficult task: one fruit was not to be consumed. He had everything good and delicious he wished for, he wouldn't feel the neediness of a fruit.
3)Our God informs us in the Quran that he is fully aware of his creatures: what they whisper inside their hearts, what they feel, what they wish for, what they dream for. So, He is aware that one of His creatures is developing jealousy and hatred towards Adam, and towards his exalted status. This creature, Iblees, the jinn created from smokeless fire, considers himself to be better than Adam, and therefore, more worthy of Adam's status. But God never punishes his creatures for a mere thought or feeling. Furthermore, if He would punish Iblees without him exposing himself, his perfect justice would be put in doubt in front of other creatures that would arguably be surprised and ask why (let us remember when angels were surprised ad asked God why was he creating a creature which would shed blood on earth).
4)God creates a situation where Iblees would expose himself. He gathers all of the creatures, and a command is given through angels:"Prostrate before Adam!". Iblees's pride couldn't bare it - his jealousy can't be hidden anymore, and he doesn't prostrate. God demands an explanation, and he answers "I'm better than him. You created me from fire, and him you created from clay!"Never would I prostrate to a human whom You created out of clay from an altered black mud."(7:12, 15:33). God's punishment is inevitable now, and Iblees is banished from Paradise. His hatred towards Adam and his progeny is even greater now, he doesn't have to be hidden enemy anymore, now he's an open enemy and swears vengeance. He asks God to reprieve him his punishment, for he will prove to God those very people that God punished him for, are the same that will disobey him like he(Iblees) did.
5)The place where Iblees was banished from was Paradise. Being in Paradise together with angels and other jinns, all of them would arguably have heard and known the command given to Adam not to go near the tree, because he would become a wrongdoer. And a wrongdoer loses the eternal abode in Paradise. His sufferings and death is inevitable, and one day his answerability about the way he used free will is also inevitable. Arrogance and narcissism always raise self-confidence - He is so confident he will make them wrongdoers that he asks God to reprieve him until the day they are raised from dead to answer to God for their choices. God reprieves him, and warns Adam and his spouse to beware of him, because he wants to expel them from Paradise.
6)Iblees starts immediately to work towards his goal. He knows that the forbidden fruit is the only chance he has, the only thing that could serve his purpose. So, he has to make them eat from it. How?
"Your Lord did not forbid you this tree except that you become angels or become of the immortal."(7:20). When we examine this verse, we can see something interesting in Iblees's words. As we know, angels are also creatures of the same God as us, but they have no physical body, they are very powerful (example: the way two of them destroyed the people of Lot), and they don't need to eat or drink like us humans. As to humans, they are of lesser power than angels, and they need food and drink, which was provided from God (ever since humanity exists), what made them somehow more dependent on God. By telling them that if they ate the fruit they would become 'like angels, or become of the immortals'', he was insinuating that they would become a type of immortals similar to angels: more powerful, and in no need of God's provisions of food and drink, which means more independence from God . He was instilling in them the greed for more than they were given - the same feelings he had in himself. He succeeded, and they ate the fruit. The consequences?:
"And We said, "Go down, [all of you], as enemies to one another, and you will have upon the earth a place of settlement and provision for a time."(2:36).This is where Adam and Eve's life appears for the first time as limited/finite. They had lost immortality and felicity - outside the Paradise they were going to face suffering, and finally death. But Allah accepted their repentance the moment they pleaded for forgiveness, so there was hope that they would regain the Paradise they lost - that depended from their obedience from then until their death. Allah promised to take care also for the progeny of Adam and Eve, that would be born in earth during this time, and that was not responsible for being outside the Paradise (they were affected by the choice of their parents, but they were not guilty of it, nauzubilah). So, since they were to be born in a life full of hardships, and since they would be even more vulnerable to Devil's traps then Adam and Eve, God would personally take care of them and give them a chance to get the Paradise that was originally meant for them too:
"We said, "Go down from it, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, whoever follows My guidance - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve."(2:38).
"Descend from Paradise - all, [your descendants] being enemies to one another. And if there should come to you guidance from Me - then whoever follows My guidance will neither go astray nor suffer."(20:123).
It is up to our choice to follow our Lord's guidance (Quran), and to regain eternall life and happiness, and the Paradise that Devil swore we will lose.
As I said, these are solely the conclusions from my research on this topic, and an answer from brother Joseph would be extremely helpful, but anyways, in the end, God knows best.
Your sister Seraphina.