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Messages - Lobotomize94

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General Discussions / Re: What are the odds? Quran and moon landing.
« on: April 14, 2020, 06:07:30 PM »
Another thing to take into account is the time of the departure from the moon (the time 2 parts of the moon have split/parted; the time a part of the moon has been taken away from the moon) is 1:54:01 PM E.S.T.

However, there are 25 different time zones in the world, making the hour of the launch from the moon relative to the timezone you are in. The minutes and seconds of that departure though is constant throughout all time zones. So to be more precise, we left the moon at 54 minutes, 1 second past the hour.

[Quran 54:1] The hour has come closer and the moon has split. 


"LM Departed Moon:   July 21, 1969
17:54:01 UT (1:54:01 p.m. EDT)"

General Discussions / Re: What are the odds? Quran and moon landing.
« on: April 14, 2020, 03:02:52 PM »
I also want to add that while I do believe the meaning of the verse is referencing a future event, the reality is, it doesn't matter what the verse means.

This verse is the first verse of the only chapter titled "the moon", and this is the only verse in that chapter that is about the moon, and it is succeeded by 1389 verses, which is a very significant number when it comes to our relation to the moon.

These are three special parts of this verse:
  • Part of the only chapter titled "the moon"
  • The only mention of the "the moon" in the whole chapter
  • The very first verse of the chapter titled "the moon"

Let's ignore what the verse means--what are the odds that the number of verses after the first verse of the only chapter titled the moon would be 1389--the exact year humans land on the moon. It could've been any non-significant number, but the number it happened to be was the most significant number that would ever reference the moon.

General Discussions / Re: What are the odds? Quran and moon landing.
« on: April 14, 2020, 11:41:30 AM »
Wa Alykum A salaam,

Can we talk about what this difference is? I don't really see a change in meaning. It is saying the (1) hour has come near, (2) the moon has split--both indicating a (1) Time progression and (2) something to do with the moon.

Another point I'm making is that this verse is the first one of the only chapter titled "the moon' and this first verse is discussing the moon. Somehow there was exactly 1389 verses after this one.

If Allah had written the Quran, he would not have done this by mere accident, won't you agree? This was deliberate.

But even further, think about it, how many verses could have been after that verse? There could've been any number, the Quran could've had more or less verses, that chapter could've been put in a different location, but it was in the right spot. Just imagine the probability?

In fact, how is it that the one verse that is talking about [a time progression and the moon] is the only verse that is succeeded by 1389 verses coinciding with a time progression (future event) and the moon (moon landing). The odds of this are very low if by mere coincidence. There could've been any number of verses coming after this one and all of those numbers would've been insignificant, but it was exactly 1389 (a significant number).

General Discussions / What are the odds? Quran and moon landing.
« on: April 13, 2020, 06:06:50 PM »
[54:1] The Hour has come closer, and the Moon has split.

Sura (Chapter) 54 of the Quran is THE ONLY chapter in the Quran titled “Al-Qamar” which means “The Moon”.

The form of the word "splitting" in arabic language when the Quran is describing this event can also be used as a form of ploughing the lands because there ARE other verses in the Quran using this "splitting" word, for example when the Quran describes rain waters "splitting" the ground )

And now If we are to count all the remaining verses right after this specific verse right all the way to the end of the Quran, we will count exactly 1389 too! The year 1389 Hijri in the Muslim calendar corresponds exactly to the year 1969 AD in the Gregorian calendar, the year in which man landed on the moon for the very first time and ploughed the moon's surface of about 21kg of moon soil. On July 20, 1969 ( 6th day of the 5th month of 1389 Hijri ), as part of Apollo 11 mission, astronauts Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin landed on the Moon, and bring back to earth about 21 kg of moon soil.

We should note that it is true that the Quran was NOT numbered at the time of the prophet. But the Quran is from God and God said that he would compile it. So the numbering of the Quran later than the prophet Muhammad was influenced by Allah who promised he would do it and preserve the Quran. So if the Quran is true, and Allah exists, wrote it and promised he would compile it, then he would compile the verses and their numbering in the Quran--which this evidence would indicate that indeed Allah did and that the numbering of the Quran after the prophet was indeed influenced if not caused by Allah by virtue of these miracles.

It is very telling that the number of verses after the moon verse is exactly the year of the moon landing. This is quite interesting. July 1969 corresponds to the year 1389 (not 1390, don't make that mistake, the Hijri calendar is different, so the years are not 1:1, look it up for your own reference).

What are the odds there would be exactly 1389 verses after that moon verse? That verse could have been any number, but what are the odds it was exactly 1389, the year humans landed on the moon? It could've been 1390, 1391, 1400, 1500, 3000, any other number, but it was 1389--the year of the moon landing.

Lets read the following verses after (54:1) –
“The moon has split and the hour has drawn closer. Then they saw a great miracle; but they turned away and said, “Old magic.” They disbelieved, followed their opinions, and adhered to their old traditions.” (The Quran, from 54:1 to 54:3)
Here, the author of The Quran specifically states – “the moon has split”, then people will see “a great miracle”, yet they still “disbelieved”. Could the “great miracle” be the fulfillment of prophecy? The quran makes it clear that the moon has split when the hour has drawn closer--which is already hinting that this is a future event when the hour has come nearer.

(One of the signs of the Day of Judgement. The Arabic uses the past tense, as if that Day were already here, to help the reader/listener imagine how it will be. Some traditional commentators hold the view that this describes an actual event at the time of the Prophet, but it clearly refers to the end of the world: cf. the same expression with reference to the sky, 55: 37; 84: 1.)

But non-withstanding what that verse actually means, let's ignore what the verse means--what are the odds that the number of verses after the first verse of the only chapter titled the moon would be 1389--the exact year humans land on the moon. The chances of this are very low. It seems like 99.9999999+% chance that it could have been literally any other number, but why was it this significant number?? It could've been any number, but it was this one, the one number that has direct significance to the first Apollo mission...Why did the quran have the number of verses it does and not more/less, why was that chapter conveniently placed in a spot such that there was exactly 1389 verses after it? What are the odds, it could have been any number, any number of verses could have existed etc etc!

I would also appreciate the help of JosephIslam on this one if possible!

Let's say you are uncertain as to whether Christianity or Islam is true.

Islam says in [Quran 2:62] that Christians and Jews will go to heaven.

Christianity says that anyone who does not believe Jesus died for our sins will not go to heaven.

So therefore, if you become a Christian, believe Jesus died for your sins, but do not believe Jesus is God, you are saved to paradise in BOTH Christianity and Islam (because in Islam, Christians go to heaven). Note: Many Christians are Unitarian and do not believe Jesus is God.

So, shouldn't one become Christian for extra protection/Insurance?

Judaism (Jewish) does not believe in hellfire, so not being Jewish is not a risk. So should't we become Christian to be safe from hell? Quran says Christians will go to heaven.

General Discussions / Re: Sons>Daughters (?)
« on: December 27, 2019, 12:15:29 PM »
Hello, I know this is an old topic, but I wanted to add something and correct a misunderstanding.

"Huwa" (he) can refer to children of either sex. It can mean a young boy or young girl and the word happens to be masculine. Based on the context surrounding this verse, it is referring to the daughter/girl.

There are 2 plausible interpretations of this verse:

[43:18] "Does God choose for Himself the kind of children who grow up wearing ornaments and who are not able to defend themselves in conflict?"
[43:18]“What! [Am I to have a daughter -] one who is to be reared [only] for the sake of ornament?”  and thereupon he finds himself torn by a vague inner conflict.

The first interpretation is saying that the polytheists see females as good for just looking pretty but not able to fend for themselves--and Allah is using this as a rhetorical statement back at them--"if this is what you believe about females, how could you ascribe with me this inferiority"

The second interpretation is saying that the polytheists see females as good for just looking pretty, and similarly Allah is using this as a rhetorical statement back at them, but instead the polytheist is the one who finds himself unable to defend this flawed position.

Which one is the right interpretation? I think both mean the same thing either way. Both show the polytheists misogyny and underappreciation of girls. So it doesn't matter, the message is the same :)

Yes, any academic historian who talks about the life of the prophet cites the Hadiths and Sirat of the prophet as facts. This is quite widespread in western scholarship. I'm not aware of any historian who the cited aspects of the life of the prophet.

I had recently taken a class on Judaism, Christianity and Islam, and the details of the life of the prophet were taught. Details not necessarily in the Quran. The professor of that class was a Christian historian. And again, the state of pre-islamic Arabia was discussed, the reforms that happened and the life of the prophet and so on and so forth.

I want to emphasize, that I am not challenging a Quran Centric approach. I follow the same approach, but it strikes me that historians/academics accept the life of the prophet and his hadith teachings and we don't.

I believe I first heard of this here:

I don't have access to Arabic works because I don't speak Arabic. Maybe you can let me know?

I'm really sorry for asking these questions. I have been thinking about these for a while and I understand this is my third on here. I do need your help and guidance.

Many historians accept Hadiths as historical truth. For example, when talking about Khadija, they say she was a businesswoman etc etc. These are acknowledged facts by historians. If academic institutions accept them, and they know better than us, isn't that a significant attack on what we believe?

The one question that I want answered is:
"If many different sources said X, then why should be deny X"?

For example, there are SO MANY independent Hadiths on the Dajjal, doesn't that mean that they had a concept of Dajjal that came from the prophet? If so many testify to the truth of it, isn't that significant?

Some contradictions in the hadith does not mean that they are all false, of course some may be false, but the idea is if one concept (Dajjal, Khadija etc etc) is mentioned so many times---then we can reasonably say this is what happened? Right?

General Discussions / Is this a Quran contradiction? "Thumma" vs "Fa"
« on: December 23, 2019, 07:55:20 AM »
Background: So "thumma" means "then" in English, but it means a long period of time has commenced before the two events. "fa" also means "then" in English, but it means a short period of time has commenced before the two events.

If that is the case, then this would necessarily be a contradiction:

[Quran 40:64]...formed you, then ("fa") perfected your forms...


[Quran 7:11]...created you, then ("thumma") fashioned your forms...

So the first verse says that the time between human formation and human form perfection is brief ("fa")
The second verse says that the time between human formation and human form perfection is long ("thumma")

On the surface it looks like a direct contradiction. Which is it, did our creation and perfection of our forms take a short period of time or a long period of time?

But, maybe I'm missing something in the Arabic language?

General Discussions / What is a "grave" in the Quran?
« on: December 23, 2019, 07:30:50 AM »
My understanding is a grave means a literal place of burial.

So when the Quran says:

[Quran 36:51] And the Horn will be blown; and at once from the graves to their Lord they will hasten.

but the Quran also says

[Quran 17:49] And they say, "When we are bones and crumbled particles, will we [truly] be resurrected as a new creation?"

So this tells me the resurrection will not be in our original bodies, we will be in a different body as a new creation (perhaps a similar creation with new set of bones/appearances etc). And there does not seem to be any evidence in the Quran that God will return us to our original form that we died in--more like we will be resurrected in soul into a new body as a new creation.

Now the question is: Why does the Quran mention Allah reviving us from our "graves" if our physical graves will disintegrate as the Earth/universe are destroyed and "lifted with one blow of the trumpet". The grave will not exist. Also many times graves in the Earth get destroyed by natural causes and the grave won't exist either. So why does the Quran say that Allah will bring us out of our graves if not all dead humans are in graves? Pharaoh also did not have a grave, he died in the sea...

Is the Quran talking about a physical grave or a non-physical spiritual grave? And can the Arabic word for Grave be used to describe a non-physical grave? Tell me about the Arabic and whether it necessitates that the grave mentioned in the Quran must be a physical grave?

There are many different versions of the Quran, different variants that were compiled *after* the prophet Muhammad died. The different versions of the Quran are detailed on their authenticity following the same narration trail of the Hadiths (if there are trustworthy people in the trail, then that version of the Quran is regarded 'sahih').

So the version of the Quran we use today used the same narration methodology the Hadiths did. So if you accept the Quran and the Methodology of the Quran, shouldn't you also accept the Hadiths?

One of the interpretations on Lane's Lexicon of the word 'Janabah' is:

He was, or became, in the state of one who is termed جُنُب; (S, IAth, Mgh, L, Msb, K;) i. e., under the obligation of performing a total ablution, by reason of sexual intercourse and discharge of the semen. (IAth, TA.)" [Edward Lanes].

However, I believe this came from hadith and inserted itself into the lexicons. This happens with Ghusl as well as Lane's lexicon made a statement that Ghusl means washing every part 3 times (which is sourced from a hadith).

With that said, I reject this non-quranic view of the word 'Janabah'. The quran explicitly clarifies what it means by Janabah...Twice.

[Qural 4:43] O you who have believed, do not approach prayer while you are intoxicated until you know what you are saying or in a state of janabah, except those passing through [a place of prayer], until you have washed. And if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and find no water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and your hands [with it]. Indeed, Allah is ever Pardoning and Forgiving.

On the underlined quote above, it is clear the Quran says [paraphrasing] "if you happened to be dirty and not find water, do this alternative thing". So the Quran explained what it means to be dirty (Janabah). You are in a state of Janabah: when you are ill (sickness and infectious processes), Traveling (imagine a 7th century Arab traveling for days--very dirty), come from a bathroom (imagine 7th-century toilets and their dirtiness), or had contacted women. These are what constitute a state of Janabah. And if you don't have water when you are in that state, then use some clean earth and wipe face and hands.

[Quran 5:6] O you who have believed, when you rise to [perform] prayer, wash your faces and your forearms to the elbows and wipe over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles. And if you are in a state of janabah, then purify yourselves. But if you are ill or on a journey or one of you comes from the place of relieving himself or you have contacted women and do not find water, then seek clean earth and wipe over your faces and hands with it. Allah does not intend to make difficulty for you, but He intends to purify you and complete His favor upon you that you may be grateful.

Again it clarified what that word Janabah means. It elabored on what to do if you don't find water and can't wash yourself when in Janabah.

In conclusion: I believe the Lexicon's inclusion of Ghusl to mean washing every body part 3 times, and Janabah to mean after having sexual intercourse/seminal discharge is based on hadith influence. It also means being in a journey, and ____, ____, etc. The Quran clarified this above right after discussing what to do when in Janabah.

I prefer JosephIslam's input on this. Anyone else, please comment on this and what you feel.

I believe this is very simple. "If you are dirty: wash yourself before prayer. And if you cannot find water do x,y,z".

So, I’ve been taking 3 showers daily (Ghusl) and it has been really messing with my time management in life. It’s hard to get work done and some prayers are offered late because I get lazy taking a shower the 4th time+. I don’t know if I could repress this strong sexual desire with my wife.

I’m here inquiring about Ghusl. Is there an easier quicker way of doing it instead of a shower? What exactly is Ghusl and what must happen?

Quran 81:4 by Sahih international says: And when full-term she-camels are neglected

I looked up the root of that word, "she-camels above in the corpus" and here is what I got:$r#(81:4:2) . I see a lot of "ten" and "relatives", but only one instance of She-camel.

Could the she-camel is a concept of Islamic Secondary sources that was placed into the translation of the Quran?

Another English translatio] changed 81:4 completely and said this:
"81:4. When the relationships are suspended." This is completely different from the she-camel thing?

This book here claims to just translate without having any bias for any school of thought! Which translation is correct?

I'm only concerned because I use the second book as my quran and I hope it is not a poorly translated version

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