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Messages - relearning

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Discussions / Re: Did the people of the Book ever have 5 prayers ?
« on: December 22, 2016, 01:39:17 PM »
At the end it stands there are people who claims their version of interpretaion is right and if you just follow their logic you see how easy things are just follow the way they see... Even the last ayat you shared 39:18 is a subjective ayat which any group can claim that it points them. So here we are, however you said a shepherd and a professor easily graps we are living in a world of countless sects leaders etc. It looks live the material we have in our hands cannot make us united but instead divided.

Discussions / Re: Did the people of the Book ever have 5 prayers ?
« on: December 21, 2016, 02:33:52 PM »

And [recall] when you said, "O Moses, we can never endure one [kind of] food. So call upon your Lord to bring forth for us from the earth its green herbs and its cucumbers and its garlic and its lentils and its onions." [Moses] said, "Would you exchange what is better for what is less? Go into [any] settlement and indeed, you will have what you have asked." And they were covered with humiliation and poverty and returned with anger from Allah [upon them]. That was because they [repeatedly] disbelieved in the signs of Allah and killed the prophets without right. That was because they disobeyed and were [habitually] transgressing.

I meant it would go such subtle details of onions garlic lentil cucumber etc. but would not give some simple clue of what it wants from people regarding daily pray (most of them at average level). Quran is not a book aiming just scholars but from all level of society including shepherds to professors so it must take into notice of its audience. If it leaves to extract laws to people who are ardent student of quran then many people are obliged to learn quran through their views that is at the end creates a special group to whom rest of the society asks for their opinions regarding their every routine if its lawful or not according to their interpretation of quran. Adding a level of abstraction to quran some favours their scholar more than others and there comes a race and hatred towards others who dont share the same view.

And the current situation, projecture of the islamic societies, countries prove that.

General Discussions / Re: Kindly clear this verses please..
« on: December 20, 2016, 11:39:15 PM »
Get along well with your father and be kind towards him on your routine relationship. No need to force him to believe anything then he has choosen to believe. Let him live his own choices. And you too. Quran has ayats which must be interpreted in the time and space context. We are not direct adressee of the quran. we are the ones who will benefit from its advices but have to evaluate our own situation time and space  and must come out with best choice which will suit out situation. Quran ayats are not  dogma.

Discussions / Re: What to do about our brothers and sisters in Aleppo ?
« on: December 20, 2016, 10:50:59 PM »
turkey is hosting more than 2.5 million syrian refugees and also turkish ngo's helping them both in turkey and in syria.  I think turkey done more than the whole world in this matter.

Discussions / Re: Did the people of the Book ever have 5 prayers ?
« on: December 20, 2016, 10:40:15 PM »
Could you please kindly state that why Quran didnt simply state the timings of the daily prayer in a way that would not cause any turmoil which would last for centuries among the muslims? And would cause them another source of seperation. Ofcourse nobody knows what God's intention was but as He is the all knower why would he count the name of the foods that jewish people wanted of from Mosa but was reluctant to give simply timings of the daily pray. Some might say because people at that time know it, they didnt need it. Then Quran was aiming their understanding and their culture? What about the universal side of Islam then? If you claim your religion aims to bring happines to the whole world even to the  generations after generations and also if you are sending the last prophet with a last revelation shouldnt you take into consideration that some basic rules must be included inside so future generations will easily understand the main pillar of religion and will not  be divided into countless secterian groups understanding the same book in a different way and at the end becoming enemy of each other?

Main problem is that Quran by itself is not simply enough to interpret basic religious laws. Religion cannt be like a Math or Physic which only aims people who are above the average people. Religion must aim people at the average level after that we can say it is for all people. But even here there are hard studies of extracting 5 daily pray times from Quran by forcing it to give what we want. If it was simply there for simple people there would be no such disaggrements.

Discussions / Re: Why is the Bible different from the Quran ?
« on: August 18, 2016, 07:11:27 PM »
yes i said it resembles like hadeeth collection during its contruction. Take the gospels for example please show me their divine side of revelation.

Mark: c. 68–73,[33] c. 65–70.[34] Location: Rome
Matthew: c. 70–100,[33] c. 80–85.[34] Location: Syria
Luke: c. 80–100, with most arguing for somewhere around 85,[33] c. 80–85.[34] Location:no consensus
John: c. 90–100,[34] c. 90–110,[35] The majority view is that it was written in stages, so there was no one date of composition.Location Western Anatolia

Just because it would create a problem in an accepted theory (by some) why to neglect this fact? It is clear and simple. It is just there even it may bother yours beliefs that doesnt negate it.

ok take this scenario: a man is married a woman they are happy together and want to have children but after years and medical treatments indicate that woman is infertile and there is no way for her to become pregnant and thus to have a child. Man (as you said emotions of wife is important and justice needs for this) wants to have his own (not adopted) child or children but doesnt also divorce his wife. But wife says she would be hurt if he marries another woman to have a children. Then man says he is also hurt. So please place the justice here but please dont just take the emotions of woman into your consideration but man also and please refrain to advice subjective ideas. Now this man cannot have his right of second marriage because her current wife might emotionally hurt? Emotionally hurt can never be an indication of injustice. For example in heritage rules according to quran women take half of the men and i am sure many women (even if you were one) would be emotionally hurt but would this mean justice is not done? What i say your taking emotionally hurt or satisfying someones's emotinal feelings as parameters of being just is wrong. We are talking here about rights. One's right cannot be taken unless another person's right is violated. And emotionally hurt is not the violation of rights. Here the case can be classifed as injustice if after marrying man neglect his first wife completely and doesnt comply his duties towards her as a normal marriage requires.

Yes I agree with your justice definitions as well but i still say there is no need for a concent (that doesnt mean you shouldnt) from your wife in Islam. The two are different. Concent is not a must but that doesnt mean it is not good to have it.

General Discussions / Re: Doubts about 80:1
« on: August 16, 2016, 08:31:53 PM »
I do apologize and I am sorry for being mean to you.

General Discussions / Re: Sons>Daughters (?)
« on: August 16, 2016, 05:56:44 PM »
Thank you again sister Amira. Would any one else like to provide their interpretation of these verses?

Dear brother these verses when sent never bothered any arabs. It is very clear that arabs always had high esteem of sons over girls. And here what quran criticize that arabs when in their cultural enviroment put sons in the upper degree than girls and then associating girls with god but taking them sons which means they are putting themself over god. So they take the good statues to them but give god less important less valuable things (to their understanding but God doesnt says o arabs girls and sons are equal because the context is not about equity it is about their morbid behaviour).  This characteristic morbid behaviour also stated in other sections of their religious behaviour for example: 6:136.

Peace be upon you :)

"...But if you fear that you will not be just, then [marry only] one..." [4:3] Sahih International
Well since Allah says you are allowed only when you can do justice, so the first wife must agree with it, then only it will be justice, as her not agreeing to it and you still do it can be extremely hurtful, thus it will fall under the category of injustice as I understand it.

Dear brother your idea about justice will not be done unless the consent of wife doesnt make sense to me. Justice is not taking consent of every participants or reaching a consensus. Justice is proper distribution of rights. No ones' right is at the hands of another person's consent. Justice and compromising are different things.

General Discussions / Re: 49:11 women
« on: August 16, 2016, 04:51:44 PM »
Actually it is very simple Quran was sent to arabs at that time whom were/are very male centric society (as yet today still so i guess).  You can see that by reading quran. Thats why it addresses sometimes like that.

Discussions / Re: Why is the Bible different from the Quran ?
« on: August 16, 2016, 04:46:49 PM »
To summarize Bible is a collection of religious writings sacred for Judaism and Christianity.  We muslims when say bible usually point to the Gospels (Injil). Gospels are written nearly 70 years later which is the tale of the Prophet Jesus by his followers. So it is not like Quran. It is kinda like hadeeth. There are four approved gospels by councils and they all have contradictions respect to each other. (source:jesus interrupted by bart d. ehrman). They are not direct words of God as we assume in Quran. Actually even in the old testament their style is not like Quran. Quran's style is direct wording of God but as for bible collection written by many different authors lived in different places and ages but they are said inspired by God.

General Discussions / Re: Doubts about 80:1
« on: August 16, 2016, 03:49:51 PM »
you can test your idea by answering the following question

to whom you think 80:6 80:10 verses addressing? the man who frowned and turned away? if it was not the prophet then quran talking to this man you think is the addressee? read it in this context then i think you will create more serious problems than you have in your mind just in order to fit prophet into the perfect image you have in your thoughts and beliefs.

General Discussions / Re:is quran crystal clear
« on: August 16, 2016, 03:33:18 PM »
a few points i want to address in the given replies.

Dear Wakas so at the end if it is subjective then it means it is not clear convincing proof then. so the claims in the excerpt short fall.

Dear good logic thanks for your answers. A messenger to clarify certain rites would direct you to sources other than  quran and it means quran is a historical document or needs other historical man made data to reach its goals. As i saw you willingly avoid answering if quran is bound by time and history. And the detail i gave wasnot the main theme of the question it was again an example to present that quran has a historical frame. But as i said above you avoid to give a clear answer to that assumption. By the way where does it say it is the last final message for the human kind? except for sayign the prophet is the last nabi (khatama nabiyana 33:40). Is this claim based on a quran?

For the "Ouli Al Albab" who are them can you point one? If you can point one then it means you are one of Ouli Al Albab. Because to point one you must be able to evaluate their level it means you are at least at their level.

Dear munir rana thanks to you also for your answers. "It would be more clear when  read it repeatedly and earnestly." is it a part of human psychology? the more you repeat the more you believe? like chanting your anthem? repeating something yourself in order to force yourself to believe it? is this the way to understand final message? force yourself to accept it read read read and keep reading untill your mind and heart and all human faculties surrender? Earnestly repeatedly... It doesnt talk to just anyone? Why? is it because it is a book for only guided? (2:2 There is no doubt that this book is a guide for the pious).

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