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11

General Discussions / No evidence to show that current Secondary Sources are what is authorized

« Last post by Shahmatt on August 13, 2024, 02:12:30 PM »

In addition to the compelling arguments made against the Secondary Sources on this website, I would like to add just one more that may have merit.

Hypothetically, even if the Quran were to somehow provide authority to another body of work, there is no evidence to show that the currently accepted Secondary Sources is what is being authorized. It is possible that there existed some other body of information that was somehow lost through the ages.

Unlike the Secondary Sources, the Quran is self validating, and thus the question of an alternative lost Quran is almost meaningless. But the Secondary Sources only garner authority allegedly from the Quran. Thus the question of: "Why these Secondary Sources, and not some other Secondary Sources?" may be a meaningful question.

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General Discussions / Re: Islamic Slaughtering and 'Halal meat'

« Last post by Mohammed on August 11, 2024, 09:39:00 PM »

Please see:
https://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2639.msg14932#msg14932

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Discussions / Re: We call our Lord, The Merciful; then how can we support these...

« Last post by Mohammed on August 11, 2024, 09:32:21 PM »

To conclude, I interpret verses 6:118, 119, 121, etc. refer to an obligation to acknowledge, ideally, from before the slaughtering takes place, (being grateful for providing the animal as sustenance 22:28, 34, 36, see also 22:40, 24:36, 76:25 etc.)

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Discussions / Re: We call our Lord, The Merciful; then how can we support these...

« Last post by Mohammed on August 02, 2024, 07:50:20 PM »

For concerns about animal welfare and ethical conduct, there are numerous verses that we can relate to,
Examples:
Who created the death/lifelessness and the life to test you which of you is better in deeds (67:2)
..so race/surpass each other in doing good deeds (2:148, 5:48)
..So whoever is expecting his Lord's meeting, so he makes/does righteous deeds (18:110)
And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the record; then to their Lord they will be gathered. (6:38)
..like that We manipulated/subjugated it for you, so that you may be grateful (22:36)

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Islamic Duties / the calendar system according to The Quran - new article

« Last post by Wakas on August 02, 2024, 12:09:58 PM »

peace all,

The calendar system according to The Quran
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran-calendar.html

Quote:

To summarise the information we have so far:

Year is solar (365.25 days)
Both sun and moon are involved in the calendar/timing system.
Count of months/moons is 12 per solar year, 4 of which are consecutive inviolable months/moons
The first inviolable month/moon is probably "shahr ramadan" and the latter 3 are for the hajj - and all 4 are in a warm period
The hajj period and ramadan do not overlap/coincide
Seasons are in sync (i.e. regular pattern) in the year - and the inviolable months/moons are unlikely to be in spring or winter

It is similar to brother Ayman's article but with some different bits of info, making the case stronger hopefully, and a difference in starting point of the year.

It's possible we have finally resolved this issue

Feedback welcome, especially corrections.

16

Islamic Duties / Re: When is Ramadan, and when are the other 3 Holy months of Pilgrimage?

« Last post by Wakas on July 29, 2024, 09:31:30 PM »

peace m114, all,

I am writing an article on it currently. Here is an interesting snippet:

Quote:

Quran 9:1-2 mentions an acquittal/release from a treaty with some polytheists and tells them they have amnesty/ceasefire for 4 months/moons and then in 9:3 it mentions this announcement on the greatest day of the hajj or day of the greatest hajj (doesn't seem to matter which interpretation is chosen) but follows in 9:5 by saying when the plural inviolable months/moons have peeled/stripped-off/passed (see Project Root Llist for further evidence of the consecutive nature of this word "inSaLaKHha") then those who broke the treaty can be fought. Note the Arabic plural means 3 or more.
I initially thought The Quran was repeating the same acquittal/release in 9:1 in 9:3 again but I should have realised Quran's word precision is there for a reason. The 1st time it mentions 4 months, 2nd time it mentions when 3 or more inviolable months have peeled away. Also note how the beginning of each verse 9:3, 9:4 and 9:5 are linked to each other.
Thus the wording from 9:1-5 suggests the clear possibility that the 4 inviolable months/moons begin - then on the 2nd inviolable moon/month the hajj/homage periods can begin. This aligns with 2:197 which states "hajj are the months (plural: ashurun) well known". Remember the Arabic plural is 3 or more thus a minimum of 3 months/moons are allowed for hajj. If so this would match with 9:1-5.
The question then becomes what could be the first month/moon of the inviolable months/moons (if the last 3 are for the hajj)? The only other "named/described" month/moon given in Quran is "shahr ramadan" so this becomes the obvious candidate.

It just so happens when The Quran introduces "shahr ramadan" and then "al hajj" in chapter 2 it is in this order, i.e. ramadan first then discusses hajj.

We can prove from Quran that "al hajj" and "ramadan" do not coincide (i.e. same month/moon) because in the nights of abstinence one is allowed sexual relations with one's spouse (2:187) but when one is undertaking "al hajj" this is not allowed (2:197) and is only allowed after one fulfills/completes their hajj (which is a minimum of 2 days) see 2:203. Also see 2:196 in which abstinence is given as an option for expiation but this would make little sense if one was already abstaining/fasting in ramadan. And lastly exemption is given for abstinence if traveling but undertaking the hajj would likely involve traveling so seems a mixed message.

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Discussions / Re: We call our Lord, The Merciful; then how can we support these...

« Last post by Mohammed on July 25, 2024, 06:29:24 PM »

(many traditional Qur'an translators translated 6: 118, 119 & 121 incorrectly). Qur'an used the root dh-k-r in 6: 118, 119 & 121 which basically means remembrance/bear in mind

peace Duster, and all,

Although "to remember, bear in mind," etc., seems to be the basic meaning, I'm unsure about the exact implications of "dh-k-r" in the above verses, as its meaning can vary depending on the context (e.g., 21:36, 21:60, etc.). Ultimately, it's up to the believer to determine the best fitting interpretation for 6:118,119, & 121 and decide on halal certification/labels.

The verses 6:118,119 &121 does not mention slaughtering specifically, so

'on which God's name has been remembered' may also mean Fair Treatment throughout farming as well as during slaughtering. [God's name-The Merciful, so 'remembering Gods name' may refer to kind treatment to animals?]

Also, I think the verses do not deal with /address manipulation and exploitation of animals (making unfair/unnatural use of).

@everyone, peace,

While I haven't been super active on this forum, I did participate in some discussions over the past few years. As I've been thinking about online interactions, I want to take a proactive approach. If, at any point during my participation, I said or did anything that was inappropriate or disrespectful, I sincerely apologize.
My intention has always been to contribute positively to the forum and I look forward to continuing to learn and grow here.
Best regards,

18

Discussions / New article: The book and the wisdom (al kitab wa al hikma) argument

« Last post by Wakas on July 11, 2024, 09:15:35 PM »

peace all,

https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/kitab-hikma.html

The book and the wisdom (al kitab wa al hikma) argument: Traditionalist/Sunni Islam Vs Quran alone

The argument goes like this: The Quran tells us prophet Muhammad was given the book (al kitab) and the wisdom (al hikma) and they say “al kitab” is The Quran and “al hikma” is separated by “wa” (and) so must be something else, which they take to mean the prophet’s sunna. Thus using this as a Quranic justification for following the prophet’s sunna, which they claim is documented in traditions (e.g. hadith), thus making those traditions a valid source of law.

There are a number of assumptions in this argument:
1) “al kitab” means the book
2) the kitab/book refers to The Quran
3) the conjunction “wa” (and) means a separate and distinct thing
4) “al hikma” refers to prophet Muhammad’s sunna
5) this sunna is preserved/documented accurately
6) this documented sunna is authoritative i.e. must be obeyed

This article will address points 1-4.

https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/kitab-hikma.html

Click on link for full article. Feedback welcome, especially corrections.

19

General Discussions / sura 4:43

« Last post by Omar bin Mario on July 06, 2024, 03:15:01 PM »

Assalamu Alaykum, I've a question about the sura 4:43.

It appears to me that the sura is divided in 2 parts:

 the first part is generic and adress men and women

O you who believe! Approach not As-Salat (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter, nor when you are in a state of Janaba, (i.e. in a state of sexual impurity and have not yet taken a bath) except when travelling on the road (without enough water, or just passing through a mosque), till you wash your whole body

And the second part adress only men or I'm mistaken?

And if you are ill, or on a journey, or one of you comes after answering the call of nature, or you have been in contact with women (by sexual relations) and you find no water, perform Tayammum with clean earth and rub therewith your faces and hands (Tayammum). Truly, Allah is Ever Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving.

In the second part, it looks like if the order to perform tayammum in case of sexual relationship is directed to men only.

Could you please help me understand it?

20

General Discussions / Re: Prophet Abraham asked to sacrifice his son?

« Last post by Wakas on June 16, 2024, 08:48:55 PM »

peace Athman,

Apologies I only read your post today.
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran-Abraham-sacrifice-son.html

Re: 3-9
http://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Abraham-Sacrifice-Questions.html

Any reason you did not answer the other Qs?


Your use of "without warrant" is another way of saying "in my subjective opinion". I prefer evidenced examples from Quran to minimise subjectivity.

Your reply to Q3
You provide no Quranic example.

Re: Q4
It seems you understood perfectly. Please reconcile the submissive V coercive. Currently there is a conflict in the common view.

Re: Q5
57:27 uses the partitive, clearly implying some were true believers but most were not. In other words, my understanding would be God did not reward most because most innovated. So this does not qualify as an example.

Re: Q6
You claim in 37:103 X precedes Y but it uses conjunction "wa" / and. Could easily be argued it is simultaneous/clarifying, i.e. Quran is explaining what he did when he/they submitted. Of course this really only works for my view, not so for the common position.

Re: Q7
17:107 is taken by some(most?) as an idiom so it is not a good example. If you are claiming it is literal then do you prostrate upon the chin when you prostrate? If you say no then you will be going against your own understanding and a clear/literal example of the righteous in Quran. If you say yes you will likely contradict your understanding of 48:27. It seems you could get stuck.
Please see verbal idioms of Quran by mustansir mir, or lane's lexicon.

Re: Q8
So you take it as a "spiritual sacrifice" here, i.e. non-literal sacrifice? I assumed you only go with what dictionaries say which means this word is only used for literal physical sacrifice.
Even so it still doesn't quite fit "exchanged/ransomed him/son with a mighty spiritual sacrifice" because he wasn't really exchanged, he's still there with him/Abraham, together.

Re: Q9
You have no other Quranic example.


Apologies for the brevity of reply.