- Welcome to QM Forum.
News:
Forum Policy
http://quransmessage.com/forum/policy
Recent posts
#91
General Discussions / Re: The Spirit (Ruh)
Last post by fireheart47 - December 15, 2024, 03:04:18 AMDear IjhazAhmad,
The article from Joseph Islam seems the most informative from Arabic perspective. I believe each word has a deeper meaning, which when studied linguistically can reveal the thought-form which ancient people tried to convey. Thus, it makes sense to find the various uses of Ruh in Arabic.
As for the Christian conflict, I believe there is some confusion. The trinity was created by monks to teach how the gospels portray Jesus, yet it has been a teaching which causes confusion and deviates from the wisdom of their predecessors, which the Qur'an preserves: oneness of Allah or tawhid.
In the gospels, Jesus is given power by a greater unseen force and is union with it. When confronted by authorities about calling himself a child of God, he points out how in the scriptures the term Elohim is employed to describe holiness within mortals, which does not apply just to himself, yet most Christian doctrine doesn't accept this as describing all humans, except Mormons (Psalms Chapter 82). And so this and many other occurrences cause people to wonder how can a human be connected to God, and the answer becomes the Holy Spirit, which I believe just means the unseen which gives rise to all life, not just Jesus. I believe it is Allah.
Many scholars debate about the meaning of this use of Allah in plural form used in Hebrew scriptures, אלהים. Although this has become the most popular way to say it in Judaism, it is not always written this way, sometimes it is אל, אלה, or אלוה. I believe it refers to indistinguishable forces of reality, which are immense and belong to a unified whole, like a water within the sea, which is also why water is pluralized yet also singular. Some say it means mighty ones in some contexts.
Here are more informed opinions about the idea of the Holy Spirit:
From my perspective, the idea behind spirit is a metaphysical observation and can be found in many cultures. Many priests in Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt would make physical observations, which would then be represented by symbols and then worshipped. I believe Abraham logically concluded this type of worship is not accurate, because something created those celestial objects and something put into action those forces of nature, nor is an idol or limited object an accurate representation of the unseen and the all-encompassing, this must be done through faith. Some cultures come to similar conclusions, yet very few practice tawhid, because they believe in a metaphysical all-encompassing concept, yet they also believe in lesser deities, prescribing them powers and giving them worship. It goes to show how special the religion of Islam has been in preserving this wisdom.
Metaphysics was also a concept popular with the Greeks. Some scholars cite people like Herodotus, who write that their knowledge came from ancient Egypt (astronomy, temples). The Hebrews of Moses, who became Israelites, also were deeply involved in Egypt. It is said Moses was a High Priest, and Joseph before him also worked for Pharoah. Some clues in the Bible (Deut 4:20, 1 Kings 8:51, Isaiah 48:10, Je 11:4) and in ancient Egypt could suggest the Hebrews were involved in metallurgy (Mines in Sinai, and trade with Hittite empire), and some scholar suggest they were under servitude by a Semitic people called Hyksos, who invaded Egypt, then assimilated to ancient Egyptian life and became rulers themselves. However, many Egyptologists like to say how there is little physical evidence of the Exodus in the temples.
Unlike the Greeks, the Israelites were humble and worshipped the unseen in tents, mostly telling stories which informed self-growth and established norms between people. Whereas the Greeks became entrenched in the flaws of the ancient Egyptian religions, which were a mix of sciences, some core nature archetypes which became worshipped in ways that deviated from their original place within the story (Osiris [plants, wisdom, ancestral father, constellation Orion], Isis[fertility, ancestral mother, the Nile, I think the Milky Way], Set[conflict, war, death, the Saharan desert], and the most important one for them, Horus [consciousness, the observer], Ra [light, the observable, the sun], Amen [unseen]), and other made-up concepts used to organize activity around a temple. Each picture they used for explaining a concept became another religion, and new pictures were created like Aten (solar power, sun rays) to explain new concepts and create new all-encompassing religions. For this reason, they excelled in physical sciences, yet the flaw was that no one could study water without involving the deity of water, nor ceramics without involving the deity of potterwheel creator. The Israelite worldview was in many ways simpler and achieved what perhaps the pre-dynastic ancient Egyptians attempted but failed to preserve.
The word spirit in English comes from Latin and was used by alchemists and religious people, who trace their origin back to these cultures, the Greco-Egyptian and Judeo-Christian. In the sciences, spirits were unseen gases. For example, CO2 was once called Spirit of Wood. For this reason, alcohol is called spirit, because of the vapors or spirits they emit. From a metaphysical perspective and religious perspective, the spirit could be described as the unseen thing which is within everything, and which gives it life, like the code of the universe. This reminds of phrase regarding Allah: يا الحى يا القيوم
An example of another culture which talks about this is the Ojibwe culture. They believe in a concept of Gichimanidoo, which is translated as Great Mystery. Often the Native Americans are quoted talking about a Great Spirit. I believe this is the same as the Holy Spirit.
Given everything, it is a blessing we have the simple wisdom of the Qur'an and of tawhid, which I believe preserves the wisdom of the oneness of the force which created the world. It is a holistic worldview, which I believe helped the sciences by changing the way we study and perceive everything as connected. This holistic worldview can also be seen in one of the core values of our religion س-ل-م (Surah ash-Shu'arah 26:89).
The article from Joseph Islam seems the most informative from Arabic perspective. I believe each word has a deeper meaning, which when studied linguistically can reveal the thought-form which ancient people tried to convey. Thus, it makes sense to find the various uses of Ruh in Arabic.
As for the Christian conflict, I believe there is some confusion. The trinity was created by monks to teach how the gospels portray Jesus, yet it has been a teaching which causes confusion and deviates from the wisdom of their predecessors, which the Qur'an preserves: oneness of Allah or tawhid.
In the gospels, Jesus is given power by a greater unseen force and is union with it. When confronted by authorities about calling himself a child of God, he points out how in the scriptures the term Elohim is employed to describe holiness within mortals, which does not apply just to himself, yet most Christian doctrine doesn't accept this as describing all humans, except Mormons (Psalms Chapter 82). And so this and many other occurrences cause people to wonder how can a human be connected to God, and the answer becomes the Holy Spirit, which I believe just means the unseen which gives rise to all life, not just Jesus. I believe it is Allah.
Many scholars debate about the meaning of this use of Allah in plural form used in Hebrew scriptures, אלהים. Although this has become the most popular way to say it in Judaism, it is not always written this way, sometimes it is אל, אלה, or אלוה. I believe it refers to indistinguishable forces of reality, which are immense and belong to a unified whole, like a water within the sea, which is also why water is pluralized yet also singular. Some say it means mighty ones in some contexts.
Here are more informed opinions about the idea of the Holy Spirit:
From my perspective, the idea behind spirit is a metaphysical observation and can be found in many cultures. Many priests in Mesopotamia and Ancient Egypt would make physical observations, which would then be represented by symbols and then worshipped. I believe Abraham logically concluded this type of worship is not accurate, because something created those celestial objects and something put into action those forces of nature, nor is an idol or limited object an accurate representation of the unseen and the all-encompassing, this must be done through faith. Some cultures come to similar conclusions, yet very few practice tawhid, because they believe in a metaphysical all-encompassing concept, yet they also believe in lesser deities, prescribing them powers and giving them worship. It goes to show how special the religion of Islam has been in preserving this wisdom.
Metaphysics was also a concept popular with the Greeks. Some scholars cite people like Herodotus, who write that their knowledge came from ancient Egypt (astronomy, temples). The Hebrews of Moses, who became Israelites, also were deeply involved in Egypt. It is said Moses was a High Priest, and Joseph before him also worked for Pharoah. Some clues in the Bible (Deut 4:20, 1 Kings 8:51, Isaiah 48:10, Je 11:4) and in ancient Egypt could suggest the Hebrews were involved in metallurgy (Mines in Sinai, and trade with Hittite empire), and some scholar suggest they were under servitude by a Semitic people called Hyksos, who invaded Egypt, then assimilated to ancient Egyptian life and became rulers themselves. However, many Egyptologists like to say how there is little physical evidence of the Exodus in the temples.
Unlike the Greeks, the Israelites were humble and worshipped the unseen in tents, mostly telling stories which informed self-growth and established norms between people. Whereas the Greeks became entrenched in the flaws of the ancient Egyptian religions, which were a mix of sciences, some core nature archetypes which became worshipped in ways that deviated from their original place within the story (Osiris [plants, wisdom, ancestral father, constellation Orion], Isis[fertility, ancestral mother, the Nile, I think the Milky Way], Set[conflict, war, death, the Saharan desert], and the most important one for them, Horus [consciousness, the observer], Ra [light, the observable, the sun], Amen [unseen]), and other made-up concepts used to organize activity around a temple. Each picture they used for explaining a concept became another religion, and new pictures were created like Aten (solar power, sun rays) to explain new concepts and create new all-encompassing religions. For this reason, they excelled in physical sciences, yet the flaw was that no one could study water without involving the deity of water, nor ceramics without involving the deity of potterwheel creator. The Israelite worldview was in many ways simpler and achieved what perhaps the pre-dynastic ancient Egyptians attempted but failed to preserve.
The word spirit in English comes from Latin and was used by alchemists and religious people, who trace their origin back to these cultures, the Greco-Egyptian and Judeo-Christian. In the sciences, spirits were unseen gases. For example, CO2 was once called Spirit of Wood. For this reason, alcohol is called spirit, because of the vapors or spirits they emit. From a metaphysical perspective and religious perspective, the spirit could be described as the unseen thing which is within everything, and which gives it life, like the code of the universe. This reminds of phrase regarding Allah: يا الحى يا القيوم
An example of another culture which talks about this is the Ojibwe culture. They believe in a concept of Gichimanidoo, which is translated as Great Mystery. Often the Native Americans are quoted talking about a Great Spirit. I believe this is the same as the Holy Spirit.
Given everything, it is a blessing we have the simple wisdom of the Qur'an and of tawhid, which I believe preserves the wisdom of the oneness of the force which created the world. It is a holistic worldview, which I believe helped the sciences by changing the way we study and perceive everything as connected. This holistic worldview can also be seen in one of the core values of our religion س-ل-م (Surah ash-Shu'arah 26:89).
#92
Prophets and Messengers / Re: Question derived from hadi...
Last post by fireheart47 - December 14, 2024, 12:03:34 PMDear nalia96,
Forgive me for I was in a rush and forgot to add important information.
When I first began to study the Qur'an as a Christian, I doubted Muhammad's existence and viewed it mostly from the perspective of Christoph Luxenberg.
Later, I began to think about this more and after some experiences, concluded I had to have faith in Muhammad, the prophet who delivered the Qur'an, thanks to God.
I believe Muhammad is God's prophet, and recited the Qur'an. My intuition and my studies tell me the contents of the Qur'an may have been part of stories, which were told by Arabs, which in Hebrew ערב, can imply "nomad", whose ancestors intermingled and descended from Moses (Midianite and Tetragrammaton connection) and the earliest prophets like Abraham. They travelled down the mountains to Sheba and westward to Syria, and entered Jerusalem, and learned the prophecies of Jesus.
It has been difficult for me to accept that an angel revealed the Qur'an to Muhammed, and I struggled with this. Now I believe perhaps he experienced Total Recall, and was able to recite the stories he had heard from his travels, which effectively preserved one of the most important sources of information for this region of the world.
My hope is that my story can help those who are struggling to believe, and not to misguide those who are on a good path.
Now, I believe Islam is Christianity, and Christianity is Judaism, and Judaism is the faith of the Israelites, which believed in Allah and sought Islam. Yet each religion ventured on its own path, and its authorities persecuted prophets. Each has developed traditions and self-understanding, which separates them into unique religions.
I believe Judaism formed, because the tribe Judah inherited the Israelite religion by having control of Jerusalem together with tribe of Benjamin. I believe the Qur'an criticizes Jewish religion, because of tribal differences and religious trends, which caused religion to be centralized and the popular narratives to become narrow, and which focused ethnic relationships above faith, even when the Jewish scriptures say this is not so (Book of Isaiah 56). Similar criticism could be made about racist exclusive worldviews in Christianity.
My hope is this can inspire people to interpret what they already know, and to continue to study it, not feeling as if we know the truth, besides the simple teachings. I have not read the whole Qur'an and so I have much more to learn.
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
Forgive me for I was in a rush and forgot to add important information.
When I first began to study the Qur'an as a Christian, I doubted Muhammad's existence and viewed it mostly from the perspective of Christoph Luxenberg.
Later, I began to think about this more and after some experiences, concluded I had to have faith in Muhammad, the prophet who delivered the Qur'an, thanks to God.
I believe Muhammad is God's prophet, and recited the Qur'an. My intuition and my studies tell me the contents of the Qur'an may have been part of stories, which were told by Arabs, which in Hebrew ערב, can imply "nomad", whose ancestors intermingled and descended from Moses (Midianite and Tetragrammaton connection) and the earliest prophets like Abraham. They travelled down the mountains to Sheba and westward to Syria, and entered Jerusalem, and learned the prophecies of Jesus.
It has been difficult for me to accept that an angel revealed the Qur'an to Muhammed, and I struggled with this. Now I believe perhaps he experienced Total Recall, and was able to recite the stories he had heard from his travels, which effectively preserved one of the most important sources of information for this region of the world.
My hope is that my story can help those who are struggling to believe, and not to misguide those who are on a good path.
Now, I believe Islam is Christianity, and Christianity is Judaism, and Judaism is the faith of the Israelites, which believed in Allah and sought Islam. Yet each religion ventured on its own path, and its authorities persecuted prophets. Each has developed traditions and self-understanding, which separates them into unique religions.
I believe Judaism formed, because the tribe Judah inherited the Israelite religion by having control of Jerusalem together with tribe of Benjamin. I believe the Qur'an criticizes Jewish religion, because of tribal differences and religious trends, which caused religion to be centralized and the popular narratives to become narrow, and which focused ethnic relationships above faith, even when the Jewish scriptures say this is not so (Book of Isaiah 56). Similar criticism could be made about racist exclusive worldviews in Christianity.
My hope is this can inspire people to interpret what they already know, and to continue to study it, not feeling as if we know the truth, besides the simple teachings. I have not read the whole Qur'an and so I have much more to learn.
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
#93
Prophets and Messengers / Re: Question derived from hadi...
Last post by fireheart47 - December 14, 2024, 12:44:44 AMDear nalia96,
As a Christian who recently chose Islam, I believe there is confusion about the meaning of prophecy.
Since the Qur'an is said to confirm previous revelations (Surah al-Maidah 5:48), I believe we can use gospels and/or the Bible to compare and find answers. We know how the gospels have scribal errors and errors from church politics. I believe Jesus knew this about all scripture, as he criticized the scribes (Gospel of Matthew Chapter 23) and preached a simple message (Matthew 22:36-40). I believe the essence of this simple message is also found in the Qur'an (Surah al-Bayyinah Ayah 5). Jesus taught about the spirit or essence.
In the Bible, in Acts of the Apostles (Acts 11:19-30), the Jewish and non-Jewish followers of Jesus were called Christians, because they followed Jesus Christ or Messiah. They also record a prophet named Agabus, whose prophecy of a drought came true. The Bible talks about prophesying (1 Corinthians 14:3-4) and testing prophecy (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
The centralized teaching of the religion called Islam is that Muhammad is the final prophet. One of the verses used as evidence is Surah al-Ahzab 33:40. The root of the word Arabic word for seal, خ-ت-م, is similar to the English word, because it does not only mean a seal for closing (ex: sealed lips), rather also a seal to confirm an attribute (English: seal of approval, seal of freshness)(Qur'an: Surah al-Mutaffifin 83:26).
I believe this refers to the attribute prophesiers must have, which is guidance for us to know what information is trustworthy and true. We follow specific prophets who have established wisdom and faith, yet I believe we can all be prophets. The word prophet and prophecy come from Greek word, which loosely means "to speak out". Our interpretations of religions cause this word to have an exclusive meaning, yet I believe environmentalists and civil rights activists prophesy, and so do those who try to preserve the wisdom and faith we inherited.
If by chance any reader doubts my religion, I will describe my faith.
I believe Islam, which comes from Arabic root س-ل-م and related to Hebrew ש-ל-ם, simply means peace, and has a connotation of completeness (1st Book of Kings 9:25), and reciprocity (Genesis 4:44, Book of Job 41:11), and for this reason it also means submission (Surah al-Baqarah 2:131). I believe this, because of how اسلام starts similar to the word انبوا (Surah al-An'am 6:5). I believe by a Muslim is a peace-maker, similar to how the م- prefix functions in other verse translations (Surah al-'Ankabut 29:69), and in Hebrew it could be written מי-שלם.
I believe Jesus is a prophet and attained elevated status of anointed one, Messiah, and his story helps guide our understanding of the scriptures. I believe he was Jewish, and his teachings are rooted in Jewish scripture (Genesis 4:15 [Against vengeance], Genesis 50:18-21 [Forgive and bless your trespassers], Leviticus 19:18 [Against vengeance], 1 Book of Samuel Chapter 2 [Hannah's prayer and God's dynamic control, from warriors to scribes] Psalm Chapter 46 [God wants peace not war]). I believe he should not be worshiped, yet he said he was in union with God as example to his disciples to know what to do when he left them. I believe the Qur'an and the Bible both agree he didn't die, because he lives in spirit (Matthew 18:20). I believe the term "son of God" (Matthew 5:9) is an attribute or metaphor popularized by Jewish scripture, and it is not literally a son, nor the only son, which the Qur'an makes clear. Metaphor just like children of Devil (1st Letter of John Chapter 3 [Sin of hate]), and they are not fixed attributes, rather ideals we pursue through our thoughts and actions.
I believe Jesus spoke against corruption of the authorities of his organized religion, the Jewish religion, for the same reasons we should speak against Christian organized religion and Islam organized religion. However, we should show mercy, because we strive to emulate the attributes of the one non-physical God, which people have called Allah and many other variations of spelling and grammar.
I believe Jewish people although many don't accept Jesus as the Messiah can think and act like Jesus. And I believe the Qur'an confirms this (Surah an-Nisa 4:162).
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
As a Christian who recently chose Islam, I believe there is confusion about the meaning of prophecy.
Since the Qur'an is said to confirm previous revelations (Surah al-Maidah 5:48), I believe we can use gospels and/or the Bible to compare and find answers. We know how the gospels have scribal errors and errors from church politics. I believe Jesus knew this about all scripture, as he criticized the scribes (Gospel of Matthew Chapter 23) and preached a simple message (Matthew 22:36-40). I believe the essence of this simple message is also found in the Qur'an (Surah al-Bayyinah Ayah 5). Jesus taught about the spirit or essence.
In the Bible, in Acts of the Apostles (Acts 11:19-30), the Jewish and non-Jewish followers of Jesus were called Christians, because they followed Jesus Christ or Messiah. They also record a prophet named Agabus, whose prophecy of a drought came true. The Bible talks about prophesying (1 Corinthians 14:3-4) and testing prophecy (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
The centralized teaching of the religion called Islam is that Muhammad is the final prophet. One of the verses used as evidence is Surah al-Ahzab 33:40. The root of the word Arabic word for seal, خ-ت-م, is similar to the English word, because it does not only mean a seal for closing (ex: sealed lips), rather also a seal to confirm an attribute (English: seal of approval, seal of freshness)(Qur'an: Surah al-Mutaffifin 83:26).
I believe this refers to the attribute prophesiers must have, which is guidance for us to know what information is trustworthy and true. We follow specific prophets who have established wisdom and faith, yet I believe we can all be prophets. The word prophet and prophecy come from Greek word, which loosely means "to speak out". Our interpretations of religions cause this word to have an exclusive meaning, yet I believe environmentalists and civil rights activists prophesy, and so do those who try to preserve the wisdom and faith we inherited.
If by chance any reader doubts my religion, I will describe my faith.
I believe Islam, which comes from Arabic root س-ل-م and related to Hebrew ש-ל-ם, simply means peace, and has a connotation of completeness (1st Book of Kings 9:25), and reciprocity (Genesis 4:44, Book of Job 41:11), and for this reason it also means submission (Surah al-Baqarah 2:131). I believe this, because of how اسلام starts similar to the word انبوا (Surah al-An'am 6:5). I believe by a Muslim is a peace-maker, similar to how the م- prefix functions in other verse translations (Surah al-'Ankabut 29:69), and in Hebrew it could be written מי-שלם.
I believe Jesus is a prophet and attained elevated status of anointed one, Messiah, and his story helps guide our understanding of the scriptures. I believe he was Jewish, and his teachings are rooted in Jewish scripture (Genesis 4:15 [Against vengeance], Genesis 50:18-21 [Forgive and bless your trespassers], Leviticus 19:18 [Against vengeance], 1 Book of Samuel Chapter 2 [Hannah's prayer and God's dynamic control, from warriors to scribes] Psalm Chapter 46 [God wants peace not war]). I believe he should not be worshiped, yet he said he was in union with God as example to his disciples to know what to do when he left them. I believe the Qur'an and the Bible both agree he didn't die, because he lives in spirit (Matthew 18:20). I believe the term "son of God" (Matthew 5:9) is an attribute or metaphor popularized by Jewish scripture, and it is not literally a son, nor the only son, which the Qur'an makes clear. Metaphor just like children of Devil (1st Letter of John Chapter 3 [Sin of hate]), and they are not fixed attributes, rather ideals we pursue through our thoughts and actions.
I believe Jesus spoke against corruption of the authorities of his organized religion, the Jewish religion, for the same reasons we should speak against Christian organized religion and Islam organized religion. However, we should show mercy, because we strive to emulate the attributes of the one non-physical God, which people have called Allah and many other variations of spelling and grammar.
I believe Jewish people although many don't accept Jesus as the Messiah can think and act like Jesus. And I believe the Qur'an confirms this (Surah an-Nisa 4:162).
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
#94
General Discussions / Re: What do i believe
Last post by Wakas - November 03, 2024, 07:07:42 PMHere are some articles you might find interesting:
The Quran and probability
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Does_God_Exist_home.htm
Errors in The Bible (there are many many more than these):
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/errors_mistakes_bible.htm
The Quran and probability
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Does_God_Exist_home.htm
Errors in The Bible (there are many many more than these):
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/errors_mistakes_bible.htm
#95
General Discussions / What do i believe
Last post by ramiroelliot - October 30, 2024, 09:58:36 AMMy opinion on religion is that they all(Abrahamic)have the same element that consists being monotheistic and they generally go over the same historical topics. Quran claims that its the last book. How do i know if its not a book that was manmade? The bible is much longer than the quran. Like where does it stop at? What is wrong about The Bible? and why dont muslims belive in quran and hadiths instead of the bible?
#96
General Discussions / Re: No evidence to show that c...
Last post by miracle114 - October 15, 2024, 05:31:51 PMSalaam Walaikum
For me to ayat are key:
15:9 and 4:82
Following what Allah has revealed and avoiding what Allah has not revealed.
This is a sometimes overlooked rule.
For me to ayat are key:
15:9 and 4:82
Following what Allah has revealed and avoiding what Allah has not revealed.
This is a sometimes overlooked rule.
#97
Discussions / From Azerbaijan!
Last post by Reader Comments - October 12, 2024, 11:01:27 AMHeeey how we doing. I don't have any specific question in mind, I just wanted to express gratitude and awe for your works. Not just simply for actively preaching Islam (which traditionalists also do) but also for having the best takes i have stumbled upon years of search. You possess incredible COMMON SENSE, and knowledge, and humility, and morality. It's not often seeing all these at once, in fact you may be the very first for me.
Oh well, at least i got your message and have been making sure your ripple will echo far and wide. We can assume the surprise of the Prophet when he sees all the people who have been influenced by his words, maybe you will have the same surprise someday.
Keep up the good work, a random fan from Azerbaijan!
Oh well, at least i got your message and have been making sure your ripple will echo far and wide. We can assume the surprise of the Prophet when he sees all the people who have been influenced by his words, maybe you will have the same surprise someday.
Keep up the good work, a random fan from Azerbaijan!
#98
General Discussions / Re: Fractions of inheritance a...
Last post by Sabir Mahmud - October 03, 2024, 12:07:29 PMI got a good solution regarding this issue from a submitter(i.e. follower of Rashad Khalifa)
He gave me this translation:
[4:11]
Allah instructs you concerning your children [i.e. their portions of inheritance]: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] women, for two or more daughters is two thirds of one's estate, and if there is only one [daughter], for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers [and/or sisters], for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [decreed] by Allāh. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
Here the word 'Nisa' is translated as 'if there are only women' instead of the traditional one 'if there are only daughters'.
This changes the whole idea.
Which means the 2/3 or 1/2 rule for daughters only applies if there are only women heirs left. Meaning, the deceased left only mother, daughter, wife, sister etc.
If there is a single male to partake in inheritance, the 2/3 or 1/2 rules don't apply.
In that case, we first distribute the wealth to the parents or spouses according to the fractions mentioned in 4:11-12. And then, we split the rest among the children.
This solves the issue of inheritance fractions adding up to more than 1.
Also, it makes sense. Cause we don't see any fraction mentioned for the male kids in 4:11 or 4:12. We only see a 2:1 ratio. So, it is a good assumption that the kids will always get the rest after completing the distribution among other heirs.
He gave me this translation:
[4:11]
Allah instructs you concerning your children [i.e. their portions of inheritance]: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] women, for two or more daughters is two thirds of one's estate, and if there is only one [daughter], for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers [and/or sisters], for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [decreed] by Allāh. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
Here the word 'Nisa' is translated as 'if there are only women' instead of the traditional one 'if there are only daughters'.
This changes the whole idea.
Which means the 2/3 or 1/2 rule for daughters only applies if there are only women heirs left. Meaning, the deceased left only mother, daughter, wife, sister etc.
If there is a single male to partake in inheritance, the 2/3 or 1/2 rules don't apply.
In that case, we first distribute the wealth to the parents or spouses according to the fractions mentioned in 4:11-12. And then, we split the rest among the children.
This solves the issue of inheritance fractions adding up to more than 1.
Also, it makes sense. Cause we don't see any fraction mentioned for the male kids in 4:11 or 4:12. We only see a 2:1 ratio. So, it is a good assumption that the kids will always get the rest after completing the distribution among other heirs.
#99
General Discussions / Fractions of inheritance addin...
Last post by Sabir Mahmud - October 01, 2024, 06:42:20 PMSalamun Alaikum,
I have questions about the inheritance law mentioned in 4:11 and 4:12. I know these laws are effective after completing the will and paying the debts.
The problem is, while distributing the wealth, many cases appear when the sum of the fractions exceeds 1. For example: say, a man died and he has 3 daughters and a wife and both parents alive.
Now, according to 4:11 and 4:12, the fractions of property they receive are:
3 daughters = 2/3
Father = 1/6
Mother = 1/6
Wife = 1/8
If we take them to common denominator,
2/3 = 16/24
1/6 = 4/24
1/6 = 4/24
1/8 = 3/24
Total = 16/24 + 4/24 + 4/24 + 3/24 = 27/24
Which is greater than 1! Then, how are we supposed to distribute the remnant wealth?
For such cases traditional scholars invented a method, called the law of 'Awl'. According to this law, in such cases some portion of property from each receiver's part is reduced proportionally to cover up the shortage.
But, the law of 'Awl' is not mentioned in the quran. Critics of islam are also not convinced by the law of 'awl'. They say, it's a man made law to correct God's mistake!
Can someone please give another interpretation of 4:11 and 4:12 so that the sum of the fractions never exceeds 1?
I have questions about the inheritance law mentioned in 4:11 and 4:12. I know these laws are effective after completing the will and paying the debts.
The problem is, while distributing the wealth, many cases appear when the sum of the fractions exceeds 1. For example: say, a man died and he has 3 daughters and a wife and both parents alive.
Now, according to 4:11 and 4:12, the fractions of property they receive are:
3 daughters = 2/3
Father = 1/6
Mother = 1/6
Wife = 1/8
If we take them to common denominator,
2/3 = 16/24
1/6 = 4/24
1/6 = 4/24
1/8 = 3/24
Total = 16/24 + 4/24 + 4/24 + 3/24 = 27/24
Which is greater than 1! Then, how are we supposed to distribute the remnant wealth?
For such cases traditional scholars invented a method, called the law of 'Awl'. According to this law, in such cases some portion of property from each receiver's part is reduced proportionally to cover up the shortage.
But, the law of 'Awl' is not mentioned in the quran. Critics of islam are also not convinced by the law of 'awl'. They say, it's a man made law to correct God's mistake!
Can someone please give another interpretation of 4:11 and 4:12 so that the sum of the fractions never exceeds 1?
#100
General Discussions / Re: *** NEW YOUTUBE CHANNEL LA...
Last post by Hamzeh - September 30, 2024, 01:12:10 PMAssalamu 3alykum
May peace be upon you as well. Congratulations on the new channel
Looking forward to it Insha'Allah.
Salam
May peace be upon you as well. Congratulations on the new channel
Looking forward to it Insha'Allah.
Salam