Who will Believe is Jesus (PBUH) before HIS Death?

[Joseph Islam]

Dear brother DARahman,

Thank you for sharing your conclusion. Of course, I completely respect your right to your opinion. 

So that I may, with respect, summarise our discussions and my understanding of them for the benefit of wider readers and to offer a conclusion to this thread, I understand that you feel that the belief of the second coming of Jesus is reasonable despite in my humble opinion that:

• Not one explicit reference in the entire Quran mentions Prophet Jesus's second coming
• Despite that explicit support for such a concept only exists in latter Islamic secondary sources even with objections raised by classical authorities
• Despite such a theological belief being challenged by verses 5:116-117 and Prophet Jesus's own testimony [1]
• Despite the mention of Prophet Jesus's death in clear terms 'tawaffu' which in the Quranic remit when applied to a soul signifies death [1]
• Despite the Quran making it clear that messengers are sent to their communities for a purpose to make God's messages clear to them in their languages (14:4) and a return of a previous messenger sent to a particular people (Children of Israel) would have no Quranic theological support. [2]
• Despite the lifecycle of Prophet Jesus being no different from any other messenger (19:33, 19:15) [1]
• Despite there being no mention of a second coming of Jesus given the comprehensive summary of Prophet Jesus's mission imparted by God Himself on the Day of Judgment (5:109-114) [1]
• Despite clear mention by the Quran that messengers before Prophet Muhammad had passed away (3:144, 5:75) [1]
• This again confirmed in 21.7-8; 21:34-35 [1]
• Despite the fact that a belief in the second coming of Jesus would challenge the explicit Quranic concept that no one has knowledge of the hour and that it could be imminent (33:63). (A second coming would invariably imply that Prophet Jesus would have to return before the Day of Judgement could ensue challenging 33:63) [1]

You feel, at this point, that on the basis of (in my opinion at best) an implicit verse 4:159, which we have discussed in this thread, you have concluded that the belief of some Muslims is reasonable.

I would have to respectfully, yet strongly disagree with your conclusion and I would (again respectfully) ask those readers who maintain belief in this concept to think about sourcing clear, evidence from the Quran that unequivocally states that Prophet Jesus will return. [3]. I would humbly feel it unreasonable the assertion that a mainstay of Muslim belief and doctrine cannot find one explicit statement from its sacred text to corroborate it. 

Finally, I humbly feel that when implicit statements are used to establish a doctrine, theological incongruences arise. To support beliefs making use of isolated implicit statement of a sacred text is not a modus operandi of just the Muslim masses but is a well-trodden method even from those of previous revelations. One only has to note the implicit statements that are made use of by Christian theologians to support the doctrine of Trinity from the Bible.

Thank you for your post. Once again let me reiterate that I truly respect your right to your opinion. We can only offer our best evidence with a view to share our perspectives. 

In the end, only God knows best.

With utmost respect,
Joseph.


REFERENCES

[1] IS THE SECOND COMING OF PROPHET JESUS (pbuh) SUPPORTED BY THE QURAN?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20second%20coming%20attested%20by%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm
[2] WAS PROPHET JESUS (pbuh) SENT TO THE GENTILES?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/jesus%20ministry%20FM3.htm
[3] BURDEN OF PROOF - PROPHET ABRAHAM'S (pbuh) ARGUMENT
http://quransmessage.com/articles/burdenofproof%20FM3.htm

[DARahman]

Peace Brother Joseph,

Thank for the summary.   I have stated before how much I respect your scholarship and the Islamic standard for discussion that you uphold.

One question I don't think we discussed during this discussion.  Is there an explicit ayah in the Qur'an that pinpoints when Jesus (PBUH) died?

Peace

Dawud

[Joseph Islam]

Dear brother DARahman

Peace to you.

My sincerest apologies if I misunderstood. I had assumed as per your comment in your opening post "I have noted in your papers that you do not believe the qur’an supports the position for the return of Jesus (PBUH)", that you were conversant with my perspective on the explicit statement "tawaffa" found in the Quran when referring to Prophet Jesus's death from my article [1] (Evidence 2)

Also, I have humbly shared my views on this explicit statement by the Quran referring to Prophet Jesus's death in another thread which you may find of interest.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=604.0


When the verb 'tawaffa' is applied to a soul, it is well known in the Arabic language to mean taking the soul away in death. Please see my comments from the other thread which I replicate below with a view to keep continuity within this thread.

1. Mutawaffika

Even today in general Arabic parlance, the verb 'tawaffa' when associated with a soul is well understood to mean death.

I would humbly encourage those who are not fluent with Arabic to conduct an experiment by generally asking a native Arabic speaker (regardless of dialect) the meaning of 'tawaffa' when applied to a soul without reference to the Quran. In my humble opinion, it will become evident how well established and understood this word actually is, even today.

This meaning is even carried by the Quran:

16:28       - whom the angels take (in death) while still they are wronging themselves
16:32       - whom the angels take (in death) while they are goodly
2:234       - those of you who die and leave behind wives
2:240       - those of you who die among you and leave behind wives
22:5         - and among you (is he) who dies

The root meaning of the verb 'tawaffa' to mean receive, to take to oneself is correct from an Arabic linguistic perspective.

However, when applied to a soul, there is not one reference in the Quran of the verb 'tawaffa' or its derivate (yatawaffa, tawaffa, yutawaffa) that I know of in the Quran that does not imply death. This meaning when applied to a soul is also well understood in general Arabic parlance.

003:055 (part)
"When God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause you to die (Arabic: Mutawafeeka)..."

005:116-117
"...That worship God, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness over them as long as I was among them, but when you caused me to die (Arabic: Tawafaytani), you were the watcher over them, and you are witness of all things.
 
What I find somewhat telling is that when it comes to Prophet Jesus, Muslim theologians do not accept the clear meaning that the word 'tawaffa' implies in this context, but due to an extant belief of Prophet Jesus's return, they have adopted another.

I have even noted some English (Muslim) commentators to concede with the obvious rendition of 'tawaffa' to signify death in this context which I feel is an exercise of intellectual honesty.

Below is one example. There are also others.

003.055
"Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die..." [Muhammad Asad]

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph


REFERENCES

[1] IS THE SECOND COMING OF PROPHET JESUS (pbuh) SUPPORTED BY THE QURAN?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20second%20coming%20attested%20by%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

[DARahman]

Peace to you Brother Joseph,

Yes.  I was familiar with your position on the perspective on the explicit statement "tawaffa".

Brother Joseph, you noted that When the verb 'tawaffa' is applied to a soul, it is well known in the Arabic language to mean taking the soul away in death.

Brother I also understand the word “tawaffa” also applies to Allah taking away the soul while asleep:

39:42. Allah takes the souls at the time of their death, and those that do not die [He takes] during their sleep. Then He keeps those for which He has decreed death and releases the others for a specified term. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.

6:60. And it is He who takes your souls by night and knows what you have committed by day. Then He revives you therein [i.e., by day] that a specified term may be fulfilled. Then to Him will be your return; then He will inform you about what you used to do.


I do have another question. 

Brother Joseph, you mentioned, “objections raised by classical authorities” over the position of the return of Jesus (PBUH).   Could you please provide some of those references?  I would like to obtain some background on classical debates on this issue. 

Thank you, as always for the dialogue and scholarship.

Peace

[Joseph Islam]

Dear DARahman,

Peace to you.

Brother Joseph, you noted that When the verb 'tawaffa' is applied to a soul, it is well known in the Arabic language to mean taking the soul away in death.

Brother I also understand the word “tawaffa” also applies to Allah taking away the soul while asleep:

Yes indeed dear brother. I trust that you will respectfully note that my statement was a reflection of how the verb  'tawaffa' is consistently used in the Quran and given my request of a hypothetical experiment, to ascertain how it is used in general Arabic parlance as well.

For example, in the Quran, the verb 'tawaffa' is used to imply nothing but death in 21 following occurrences:

4:97, 6:61, 47:27, 4:15, 7:37, 8:50, 10:46, 10:104, 13:40, 16:28, 16:32, 16:70, 32:11, 40:77, 3:193, 7:126, 12:101, 2:234, 2:240, 22:5, 40:67.

Sleep is likened to death in 2 verses:

6:60. 39:42

And then we have the disputed verses concerning Prophet Jesus which I find have no warrant to be interpreted as anything else other than implying 'death' given the established nature of the verb 'tawaffa'.

3:55, 5:117

The general statement of 6:60 in my opinion which your have shared, more than alludes to one's state in sleep being offered as an analogy to death which is more than implied by the Arabic 'ba'atha' which can refer to being raised up again after death (2:56).

Please note the structure of verse 6:60 - [sleep] [accountability] [raise]. I humbly do not believe the intention of the verse is to define the verb 'tawaffa' which in numerous other verses as already noted above and in general parlance in Arabic, is used to imply death. Rather, the focus of the verse carries a wider purpose of metaphorical import appealing strongly to the process of the human life-cycle. It is not merely about 'sleep'.

For example on the strength of verse 10:46 and 13:40, do we then conclude that Prophet Muhammad would also not die and would return for a second time?

Concerning Prophet Muhammad:

010:046
"And whether We show you (O Muhammad) some of that which We promised them or we cause you to [die] (tawaffa)..."

013:040
"And whether We show you (O Muhammad) some of that  which We promised them or we cause you to [die] (tawaffa)..."

On the basis of the verses pertaining to Prophet Jesus, why does no commentator (to my knowledge) insist that Prophet Muhammad will also return for a second time on the basis of the above two verses?

As I'm sure you will agree, that we must be consistent in our Quranic study. The verses you have shared do not provide unequivocal evidence that Prophet Jesus will return.

Thus, I humbly assert, I do not feel that when Prophet Jesus claimed 'falamma tawaffaytani' (5:117) that he intended the verb 'tawaffa' to imply sleep, but rather death.

Given the above references, with respect, do you feel it is fair to take a well established meaning of a verb and when it comes to Prophet Jesus, to apply a contextually obscure inconclusive meaning on the strength of two verses implying 'sleep' to support an extraneous doctrine?. Personally and with respect, I humbly do not subscribe to an approach that takes inconclusive isolated verses to support a complete doctrine as a matter of fundamental belief.

The main thrust of my argument has been from a Quranic perspective.

However, as requested, I leave you with two papers [1] & [2] which discuss the matter from an Islamic secondary source perspective citing classical opinions on the matter. 

"The prevalence among the mufassirūn of the view of Jesus as eschatological protagonist seems to explain their otherwise peculiar rejection of his death. Indeed there can be hardly any other reason to argue that while tawaffā refers to death on twenty-three occasions in the Quran, on the two occasions on which it is applied to Jesus it refers either to falling asleep or being taken to heaven. In any case neither of these latter two definitions seems credible. The idea of Jesus falling asleep seems ridiculous when it enters the midrashic traditions on Jesus and his disciples. The idea of Jesus being taken to heaven is already represented with the verb rafaʿa in both sūrat āl ʿImrān (3) 55 and sūrat al-nisā’ (4) 158" [1]

Regardless of the position taken by Islamic sources (which is not the basis of my argument), I find not one unequivocal statement in the entire Quran from God which states Prophet Jesus will return for a second time. An assertion not corroborated by a sacred text, cannot in my humble opinion form a mainstay belief.

In the end, only God knows best.

I hope that helps, God willing.

Regards,
Joseph.


REFERENCES:

[1] The Muslim Jesus: Dead or alive?
Gabriel Said Reynolds, Page 249
http://www.nd.edu/~reynolds/index_files/jesus%20dead%20or%20alive.pdf

[2] Please see in particular Chapter 2 and 5 which I leave for you to conduct your own analysis.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/56681898/33/Imam-Ibn-Hazm-Amawi-Zahiri-Qurtabi

[DARahman]

Thank you Brother Joseph.   This dialogue is very helpful.  I appreciate the thoroughness of your replies.  I will review all the informaton you have provided in this dialogue.

Peace

[DARahman]

Ramadan Mubarak!

Brother Joseph,

I know it has been quite a while since this dialogue started.

I noticed that the Maulana Muhammad Ali translation of the Qur’an takes the position that Jesus did not die on the cross.  I did notice that they translate ayah 4:159….:

1 5 9 And there is none of the People of the Book but will believe in this before his death; and on the day of Resurrection he will be a witness against them.a

…..to mean that the people of the book will all believe in Jesus’ (PBUH) death by crucifixion before the people of book die.  Here is the commentary on that ayah:

159a. Both the Jews and the Christians necessarily believe in the death of Jesus on the cross, while according to the Holy Qur’ån they have really no sure knowledge of it. The Jews reject his claim to Messiahship on the basis of Deut. 21:23: “He that is hanged is accursed of God”. Their belief is that since Jesus died on the cross he was accursed, and no one who is accursed of God can be a prophet. Following quite a different line of argument, a Christian believes that Jesus died on the cross and was accursed. He admits the truth of Deut. 21:23, but he says that unless Jesus were accursed he could not take away the sins of those that believe in him. As in Gal. 3:13: “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree”. Hence the fundamental principle of the belief of both Jews and Christians is that Jesus died on the cross, and the meaning of the verse is clear, viz., every Jew and Christian, notwithstanding that he has no sure knowledge at all, must believe before his death that Jesus died on the cross.

Does that seem to be a reasonable interpretation of ayah 4:159 to you?

Salaam