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Offline Abdurrahman

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The Shariah Law?
« on: May 13, 2016, 09:48:52 AM »
What QURAN SAYS ABOUT The Shariah Law?
Thanks in advance,

Offline Anjum

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2016, 12:47:26 PM »
Salam Abdul,

The sharia law..of today is mostly based on Hadeeth...which has no authenticity according to Quran...we are obliged to follow the laws laid in Quran only..nothing more than that...hope you understand...:)

Regards,
Anjum

Offline Zack

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2016, 04:17:02 AM »
Salam Abdul,

The sharia law..of today is mostly based on Hadeeth...which has no authenticity according to Quran...we are obliged to follow the laws laid in Quran only..nothing more than that...hope you understand...:)

Regards,
Anjum

Hi Abdul,

I would go further than the comment above. The legal and ethical instructions in the Qur'an are a revelation for 7th century Arabs. Ancient laws for other peoples, whether for Hebrews in the Torah, or Arabs in the Quran, do not have universal application. Instructions for diet, women etc. often have universal principals, but transplanting these Quran laws into the 21st century causes lots of problems.

Wasalam
Zack


Offline good logic

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2016, 05:39:33 AM »
Peace Abdurrahman.

There is no "Sharia law" to be found anywhere in Qoran. It is made up.

GOD says  that "Sharia law" is made up by  The  religious scholars, who have added many extraneous laws, prohibitions, dress codes, dietary regulations, and religious practices never authorized by God:
42:21
They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution.*
أَم لَهُم شُرَكٰؤُا۟ شَرَعوا لَهُم مِنَ الدّينِ ما لَم يَأذَن بِهِ اللَّهُ وَلَولا كَلِمَةُ الفَصلِ لَقُضِىَ بَينَهُم وَإِنَّ الظّٰلِمينَ لَهُم عَذابٌ أَليمٌ

There is only GOD s law , His revelation:
45:6
These are God's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than God and His revelations do they believe?
تِلكَ ءايٰتُ اللَّهِ نَتلوها عَلَيكَ بِالحَقِّ فَبِأَىِّ حَديثٍ بَعدَ اللَّهِ وَءايٰتِهِ يُؤمِنونَ
45:7
Woe to every fabricator, guilty.*
وَيلٌ لِكُلِّ أَفّاكٍ أَثيمٍ

GOD bless you.
Peace.

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2016, 08:33:30 AM »
Asalamu Alykum

Dear brother Zack

you said
Quote
I would go further than the comment above. The legal and ethical instructions in the Qur'an are a revelation for 7th century Arabs. Ancient laws for other peoples, whether for Hebrews in the Torah, or Arabs in the Quran, do not have universal application. Instructions for diet, women etc. often have universal principals, but transplanting these Quran laws into the 21st century causes lots of problems.

Are you saying that the laws of the Quran should not be applied in the 21st century? I'm not sure if I understood you correctly

I believe the Quran instructs Muslims to uphold the Quranic law at all times. And to always refer matters back to the Quran as times go by. And laws that is not concrete, the Quran is clear about them, and allows the nation to consult with one another to come up with the best laws that enjoin in the good and forbid the evil.

68:35-38 Should We treat the ones who have surrendered the same as those who are criminals? What is wrong with you, how do you judge? Or do you have another book which you study? In it you find whatever you wish to find?

(6:114)Shall I then seek a Judge other than Allah? When  it is He Who has revealed to you the Book fully detailed?


(45:6)These are the verses of God that We recite to you with truth. Then in what 'Hadith' (statement / narrative) after God and His 'Ayat' (verses) will they believe?


God has prescribed a Law(shariah) and a way for every nation. To the Jews a Law and a way. To the Christians a Law and a way. To the Arabs and their surroundings a Law and a way. At the same time God invites all humanity to the ways and laws of His in the Quran. These are part of Gods One religion. Islam. They are all Muslims (servants submitters to God).

5:48 part...To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.

Please see article below which I think may be related also to this thread[1]

With Peace and Blessings Insha'Allah   :)

[1]IS THE QURAN SIMPLY A REVELATION TO BE UNDERSTOOD AND APPLIED ON A PERSONAL LEVEL?
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/538289746308157

Offline Zack

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2016, 09:19:59 AM »

Dear brother Zack....you said The legal and ethical instructions in the Qur'an are a revelation for 7th century Arabs. Ancient laws for other peoples, whether for Hebrews in the Torah, or Arabs in the Quran, do not have universal application. Instructions for diet, women etc. often have universal principals, but transplanting these Quran laws into the 21st century causes lots of problems.
Are you saying that the laws of the Quran should not be applied in the 21st century? I'm not sure if I understood you correctly
[/quote]

Hello Hamzeh. Yes, as you say above, I believe the legal laws do not have universal application, whether that be the Torah, the Injil or the Qur'an. In some ways, you have confirmed this when you say "God has prescribed a Law(shariah) and a way for every nation. To the Jews a Law and a way. To the Christians a Law and a way. To the Arabs and their surroundings a Law and a way."

Isa came to bring a "Universal Law" which is repeated about 10 times throughout the Injil "Love God and love your neighbour. All the law hangs on these 2 things. Matthew 26:40. The enforcing of a universal legal earthly law created hypocrites and confusion in the time of Isa. It creates confusion in every place and time. The Injil is about getting back to the heart, and not food laws etc.

So yes, I agree... God provided a law for Arabs and their surroundings for the 7th century, but it is not universal. People are free to embrace that law, but the law does not bring someone closer to God. A pure heart does.

Wasalam
Zack


Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2016, 09:13:44 AM »
Asalamu Alykum Brother Zack

Quote
Hello Hamzeh. Yes, as you say above, I believe the legal laws do not have universal application, whether that be the Torah, the Injil or the Qur'an. In some ways, you have confirmed this when you say "God has prescribed a Law(shariah) and a way for every nation. To the Jews a Law and a way. To the Christians a Law and a way. To the Arabs and their surroundings a Law and a way."

I should of been more clear and was relating my message according to verse 5:48.

Yusuf Ali 5:48: To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

I believe the above verse is not speaking of different or future laws other that whats stipulated in the verses before it. And the Quran confirms its the final revelation from God.

So it seems that there is 3 different laws that were permitted by God. Which are the laws contained in the Torah and what God has revealed therein the Gospel and the Quran. Please see from 5:44 to 5:48.

I'm trying to see how to make sense out of what your saying that the Law is not meant to be universal. Just to make it a simple discussion we will talk about the Quranic Law. If this was only meant to be time specific and not reaching other nations or people, and that it may be changed when people feel that its time then how can one understand and comprehend verses like the ones below?

2:27 Those who break Allah's Covenant after it is ratified, and who sunder what Allah Has ordered to be joined, and do mischief on earth: These cause loss (only) to themselves.

68:36-38 What is the matter with you? How judge ye? Or have ye a book through which ye learn- That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose?

2:143part  And thus we have made you a just community that you will be witnesses over the people and the Messenger will be a witness over you.

45:6 These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?

17:89 And We have certainly diversified for the people in this Qur'an from every [kind] of example, but most of the people refused [anything] except disbelief.

6:114 Say: "Shall I seek for judge other than Allah? - when He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." They know full well, to whom We have given the Book, that it hath been sent down from thy Lord in truth. Never be then of those who doubt.


I'm not saying that society may not invent certain laws that are appropriate for their time and place that God did not fixed. Indeed this is something I find the Quran encourages. The enjoining of the good and forbidding of the evil. Also God does not spoon feed every small detail on how to run a society or community. He does indeed want people to devise a plan according to what His guidelines.

For example God expects that society should come up with a certain minimum age of marriage. He does not specify what age it is. But He does detail that they should be past the time of puberty and have sound judgment. How does one determine this? This can be arguably changed according to time and place. What ever a God conscience people think would be applicable for their time. Some countries find it that the age may be 16 with the consent of parents, some countries find that to young and say 18. Maybe in the past people thought at 16 people were much more responsible. At the end God conscience people use God's books to figure out a constitution.

Remember there certain laws that God has commanded to be upheld by society in a whole. There probably is not much that is expected from society really. From my limited knowledge the laws that are fixed, are those to do with inheritance, marriage, divorce, witnesses, punishment for corruption, taxes(zakat), theft, repentance, and maybe a little bit more. These maybe just to test humans and see if they will obey God. After all Adam and his wife were only commanded to not go near a tree. Now when it comes to punishment, God details also certain laws that should be upheld and that should be taken into account in this world. And there is some that may be on a personal level that God warns that they are acts of the evil ones, and may have a punishment in the hereafter and there is nothing about punishment to be established in this world. For example believing, praying, drinking alcohol, eating unlawful food, etc. These are acts condemned by God. So in other words God allows people the freedom of choice and to believe in whatever one wants to. There is no compulsion in religion. But there is on the other hand law and order in the land that God has ordained so that there would be justice, and order.

Also if what your saying is true or should be followed, there maybe a risk of people having excuses of not praying, not fasting, not doing any of the commandments that God ordained for His servants. These would be claimed as 'old ways'.

It also maybe that the world will not embrace the Law of God, and your right people should be free to embrace what ever they choose. But as a just society you cannot just let people do whatever they want. Some people do wrong things all the time and at times there is forgiveness and at times there is consequences. If everyone was left to do whatever they want this would lead to criminals and mischief in the land. So there has to be at times control and order. And those in power have choices to make. And if they are from the People of the Book including Muslims then they might have to answer to God why they did not choose His Law.

Also how can society just turn away and choose a different law after God's words are made clear to them and manifested in many ways. In what purpose do these books serve us then if we may just choose what we feel is right. God say do 'x' and we do 'y'. After all the laws in the books are only just.

The topic to me is a little more complicated than I thought. This is something I have to give more deep thought into soon Insha'Allah.

Would like to see more opinions including brother Joseph Insha'Allah.

Of course at the end God knows best.

Salamu Alykum

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2016, 09:42:20 AM »
Salam

I just wanted to rephrase a couple things

1st. i said "After all Adam and his wife were only commanded to not go near a tree". They could of had more commands, God knows best.

2nd. I said "In what purpose do these books serve us then if we may just choose what we feel is right" I meant to ask " In what purpose do these commands and laws serve us and why are they ordained to be so important, if we may just choose to do what we feel as right"

Because obviously God's book serve us everything Alhamdulila

 :)

Salam

Offline Zack

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2016, 01:10:48 AM »
Hello

Thanks for your excellent post. It is good to bounce concepts that we have never really questioned.

Firstly a couple of points as background to QS 5:48 (and thanks for pointing out the context 5:44-48)…. Both for the Hebrew Torah, and the Injil, following “The Law” people do not inherit heaven and salvation by following “the law.” Heaven is undeserved compassion and grace by God.

From what I understand, the usual Hebrew term translated for"law" being torah, does not really equate to the English word “Law”, but more like "instruction." Or another way to put it, God gave Moses a Instructions for life for the Hebrews. Therefore even these instructions are a type of “Mercy from God”, so that we could experience life to the fullest.

In contrast, there are probably over 100 verses in the Injil referring to how at the time of Isa, Jews had made the law into a burden that no-one could carry, such as: Jesus replied, "And you experts in the law, woe to you, because you load people down with burdens they can hardly carry, and you yourselves will not lift one finger to help them. Luke 11:46

Another key verse is: Then Jesus told them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. In other words, the instructions, were to help mankind, not for mankind to serve the law. The other issue was the Torah represented ethnic pride with Jews saying “Follow our culture and law, then you go to heaven.”

With all the confusion at the time of Isa, the Injil says for all the pagans so not to be confused: a) Love God & Neighbor, and all the “Laws” of the Prophets are fulfilled  b) Be filled with the Holy Spirit (God’s presence), so to know right from wrong. Despite this, I believe the vast majority of instructions from the Torah are still beneficial for Christians. The big difference with the Injil is that everything is "Internal / heart focussed".

Anyway with that as background, the instructions of the Torah, Injil and Qur’an I believe were very practical. They were related to the environment of the people they were given. Instructions related to food were given so people would not get sick in the desert. For an eskimo, some of the instructions would be different.

Now that being said, I believe most instructions overlap in all Holy Books and ARE universal for mankind to experience true life. In responding to your other points.....

Quote
And the Quran confirms its the final revelation from God. So it seems that there is 3 different laws that were permitted by God. I'm trying to see how to make sense out of what your saying that the Law is not meant to be universal.

As I have mentioned, in having more than 1 "law", the law can not be a single universal law, because different environments demand slightly different instructions from God for a people. Also I think we need to be careful with the statement "Quran confirms final revelation", as I believe it never is intended to be a superior revelation or contradictory to the others... it just happened to be after the others.

Quote
If this was only meant to be time specific and not reaching other nations or people, and that it may be changed when people feel that its time then how can one understand and comprehend verses like the ones below?

68:36-38 What is the matter with you? How judge ye? Or have ye a book through which ye learn- That ye shall have, through it whatever ye choose?
45:6 These are the verses of Allah which We recite to you in truth. Then in what statement after Allah and His verses will they believe?

For example God expects that society should come up with a certain minimum age of marriage. He does not specify what age it is. But He does detail that they should be past the time of puberty and have sound judgment. How does one determine this? Remember there certain laws that God has commanded to be upheld by society in a whole. There probably is not much that is expected from society really. From my limited knowledge the laws that are fixed, are those to do with inheritance, marriage, divorce, witnesses, punishment for corruption, taxes(zakat), theft, repentance, and maybe a little bit more. Also if what your saying is true or should be followed, there maybe a risk of people having excuses of not praying, not fasting, not doing any of the commandments that God ordained for His servants. These would be claimed as 'old ways'. [/quote]

The above verses, and the whole Qur'an is deliberately revealed in Arabic for Arab peoples of the 7th century, that they would be united under a creed and system. The areas you mentioned (inheritance, zakat, specifics on punishment) in particular are those that would be questionable in having universal application. The reason is that God instructed the Hebrews and those with the Injil with variants to this. However the law about minimum age for marriage I would say does NOT have any variants in the Injil and Torah.

Also how can society just turn away and choose a different law after God's words are made clear to them and manifested in many ways. In what purpose do these books serve us then if we may just choose what we feel is right. God say do 'x' and we do 'y'. After all the laws in the books are only just. The topic to me is a little more complicated than I thought. This is something I have to give more deep thought into soon Insha'Allah. Would like to see more opinions including brother Joseph Insha'Allah.

Based on the logic above, others would say "How does God say "x" in the Torah, but we do "y"...., yet Gods Holy Books should not contradict with one another? There are only 2 options: Gods law given through the ages is universal but contradicts itself or God's Law is not universal. You are correct..... there has been many assumptions and this is more complex than people think.

Wasalam
Zack

Offline Hamzeh

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2016, 06:33:48 AM »
Peace to you brother Zack

I agree that its important to discuss concepts that are not really questioned as well. Insha'Allah God Willing there will be goodness out of the discussions.

you said
Quote
Firstly a couple of points as background to QS 5:48 (and thanks for pointing out the context 5:44-48)…. Both for the Hebrew Torah, and the Injil, following “The Law” people do not inherit heaven and salvation by following “the law.” Heaven is undeserved compassion and grace by God.

Well if the Law is followed in its truth and questioned and been determined to be the truth and inspired by God, then what other than Goodness can come from it. The Laws or direction(instruction) from God only lead to the right way.

Quote
They were related to the environment of the people they were given. Instructions related to food were given so people would not get sick in the desert. For an eskimo, some of the instructions would be different.

Arguably there have been people eating swine for a very long time with no evidence of that making them sick. I find that being a commandment from God to separate believers from non believers. God knows best. Also the slaughtering of the grazing animals in God's name. There doesn't seem to be evidence that if people don't follow that command and slaughter the animals in other ways does not relate to illness.

In my humble view I find the Quran is actually encouraging the Jews and the Christians in the time of the Prophet Muhammad that they should be judging by what God has revealed to them in their respective revelations. Not by what was newly invented by them or the desires that were introduced in Gods name. They were being referred back and hold fast to the truth in their revelations. However there was great benefit and a choice to adapt to the new final and more pure revelation that was being revealed to Prophet Muhammad. Sometimes I think that despite the long history of the Jews there numbers in populations is quite small. Its a possibility that they intermingled and merged in with the new Muslims and made no differences between them. This is just a opinion. God knows best

you said
Quote
as I believe it never is intended to be a superior revelation or contradictory to the others... it just happened to be after the others.

I also don't find that the Quran can ever be contradictory to the previous revelations. If all 3 scriptures are from the Lord in noway can they have any contradiction with one another. They all must have the same central message. Its actually a confirmation of what went before it. The same message and the same religion but with a different law and a path. This was again as noted before "INTENTIONAL" by God. And the reason seems to be given by God, so that He can test all of us in what He has given us (5:48).

In the same stroke, God removed the burdens of the People of the Book through the Quran once they had become convinced in the Qurans testimony. For example the Jews had a restriction put against them because of their injustices that they cannot eat from the fat of the animals.

6:146 For those who followed the Jewish Law, We forbade every (animal) with undivided hoof, and We forbade them that fat of the ox and the sheep, except what adheres to their backs or their entrails, or is mixed up with a bone: this in recompense for their wilful disobedience: for We are true (in Our ordinances).


As soon as the Jews are convinced of the final revelation of God the Quran their restriction of the above verse seems to be removed.
 
5:5 This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them.

This is also one of the beauty of the Quran. It actually has united all the people through the same religion, given their differences in law or path.

These differences are not to understood as contradictory. The direction of prayer for one example that has been authorized to be different. The laws of marriage is another example. The Sabbath, the Juma'a prayer(Friday prayers) etc.


I do think that this topic needs to be more clarified Insha'Allah. People with knowledge and familiarity with all 3 books would have a better understanding and may be able to see the connection in Gods messages. I do find that through the articles of Joseph I can see at times how they are all interlinked and the Quran is a confirmation and a guard over them. I also believe that Jews and Christians who are very familiar with their own books and try to research them, may find that the Quran will clarify the truth and messages. They maybe able to recognize the truth or shall I say misconceptions in their own books better than others. God knows best

Salam  :)

Offline Abdurrahman

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Re: The Shariah Law? Islamic state ?!
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2016, 08:17:26 AM »
Esselamu Aleykum from Istanbul again
Dear brothers, joseph,Hamzah, Zack, Anjum
Thanks for responding,
this forum could accomplish the task of making individuals truly understand the message and then be able to present that message in a coherent and convincing way to others, that would be a great service.
Than my next question is Islamic state? Again please references given from Quran only !!!
My opinion, I couldn't see any evidence to have a state you should call it Islamic state

Do we have really clear evidences from prophet Sav. medina/Mekka time?
Is it necessary to call it "Islamic state"?
 In both way what is the situation of non-Muslims in an Islamic State ?

Offline Abdurrahman

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2016, 08:56:57 AM »
Also please,
Islamic State is than a ideological state right?
So it's mean can not ruled by a non-Muslim?

4:58) Allah commands you to deliver trusts to those worthy of them; and when you judge between people, to judge with justice. Excellent is the admonition Allah gives you. Allah is All-Hearing, All-Seeing.

(4:59) Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, and those from among you who are invested with authority; and then if you were to dispute among yourselves about anything refer it to Allah and the Messenger if you indeed believe in Allah and the Last Day; that is better and more commendable in the end.

For some scholars those verses for  the entire religious, social and political structure of Islam, and the very first clause of the constitution of an Islamic state. It lays down the following principles as permanent guidelines, In the Islamic order of life Muslims are further required to obey fellow Muslims in authority. This obedience follows, and is subordinate to, obedience to God and the Prophet (peace be on him)


Offline Anjum

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Re: The Shariah Law?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2016, 05:21:31 AM »
Salam Abdul...

We are glad that...we were of some help to u...:)..

According to this verse..we may have to obey those who are righteous...not some terrorist...what if the fellow muslims in authority are corrupted?...and they may be just muslims..by name...they do not follow any rules stated in Quran...how can we state them as muslims...?...we do not have to obey those hypocrites...as they are just some...idiot terrorists...who have hijacked Islam and destroying its name..and making the whole world hate us...do we have to obey them?...are they really muslims?...think...:)...and hope u will understand...:)...

With best regards,
Anjum