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Offline Joseph Islam

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Details of Ablution
« on: December 14, 2011, 12:48:06 AM »
LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=315#p337

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Friday, December 02, 2011, 19:26 (11 days ago) @ fadhly
edited by Quasim Hamdani, Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 08:00

Yes, clearly. I note your acknowledgement of the perfect verb but find your conclusion non-sequitur.

Indeed the verse (5:6) says 'stood up for prayer' (action complete], but you simply cannot tear a verb (perfect of imperfect) out of its context and interpret the verb in isolation. The 'fa' in 'fa-ighsilu' (imperfect) clearly denotes something that then results after the 'qumtum ila salati'.

Therefore the 'qumtum ila salati' needs to be understood in the overall context of the sentence which means when you have 'stood up for prayer'. It doesn't mean that you have prayed!

Rather, it means when you have stood up with the intention of prayer or when you actually get up to do the prayer [perfect verb - action complete], then ... (carry out the ablution process).

Peace.

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Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Details of Ablution
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2011, 12:50:17 AM »
LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=315#p348

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Saturday, December 03, 2011, 18:45 (10 days ago) @ Joseph Islam
edited by Quasim Hamdani, Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 08:00


Salamun Alaikum,

Please note a typo and a correction on my post noted after a re-read with a slight addition.

My apologies for any inconvenience caused.

Joseph.

(1)

The following:

"but you simply cannot tear a verb (perfect of imperfect)"

Should read:

"but you simply cannot tear a verb (perfect or imperfect)"


(2)

The following:

"The 'fa' in 'fa-ighsilu' (imperfect) clearly denotes something that then results after the 'qumtum ila salati'"

Should read:

"The 'fa' in 'fa-ighsilu' clearly denotes something that then results after the 'qumtum ila salati'" - fa = result particle or an answer to a condition usually translated as 'then', 'and' or 'so' (alfa waq'aat fi jawaab ashrat). ['ighsilu' = imperative verb - an instruction or a command etc]


Regards  :)

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Details of Ablution
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2011, 12:51:40 AM »
LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=315#p421

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 14:41 (2 hours, 9 minutes ago) @ fadhly
edited by Joseph Islam, Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 16:33


Brother Fadhly,

Salamun Alaikum

You respectfully assert:

"Do people get up to do the prayer then carry out the ablution process? Usually they do not do like that. Generally they carry out the ablution process first then get up to do the prayer such as in Jumat prayer"

Brother, please think about the logic of what you are saying. Are you asserting that people complete the 'salat' and then perform the ablution?

If so, then please can you explain clearly for everyone's benefit the purpose of the directive of ablution after the salat is complete.

With respect, there is no point in raising a contention without a plausible cogent alternative explanation or a better understanding of the verse.

I have clearly cited my reasons why the 'qumtum ila salati' needs to be understood in the overall context of the sentence with the Arabic grammar used. This is clear to any Arabic speaking person.

The ambit and usage of the word 'qama' with salaat in the context it has been used can clearly capture the action of rising with an intention to perform salaat.

http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?id=337

Regards,
Joseph.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Details of Ablution
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2011, 12:52:27 AM »
LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=315#p422

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 14:46 (2 hours, 5 minutes ago) @ Ali Noor Atlanta
edited by Joseph Islam, Tuesday, December 13, 2011, 16:23

Salamun Alaikum Ali Noor,

In this thread I have not once made an interpolation as 'wash' so I am not sure whose interpretation you are insinuating with your comment, or indeed referencing.

As used in 5:6,

Wash (ghusl) = face and your hands to the elbows
wipe (mas'ha) = head and the feet up till the ankles.

I have clearly cited my reasons as to why and how the 'qumtum ila salati' needs to be understood in the overall context of the sentence.

http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?id=337

Regards,
Joseph.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell