The Shape of the Earth

[Joseph Islam]

Dear All,

As-salamu alaykum

I have only managed to visit this topic now. I note that this forum has already witnessed a few threads on this topic [1], [2], at times with vociferous sentiments.

My intention is not to necessarily re-open the discussions but to provide my own thoughts on this topic which hitherto, have not been shared on this forum.

What I would stress however is that in any epistemic debate, both sides need to first establish and agree what sources / types of evidence are admissible / acceptable to both parties. Otherwise, the debate will be futile.

Please kindly see my thoughts on this topic from a Quran's perspective and in particular, reference to verse 65:12 [3]. I also share a recent Facebook post on the topic [4].

I hope this helps, God willing
Joseph


REFERENCES:

[1] The Quran supports a Geocentric view of the universe?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1611
[2] Geocentrism and Flat Earth in Quran II
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1778
[3] THE SHAPE OF THE EARTH
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20shape%20of%20the%20earth%20FM3.htm
[4] FLAT-EARTH THEORISTS
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/1147453592058433

[Joseph Islam]

THE SHAPE OF THE EARTH
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20shape%20of%20the%20earth%20FM3.htm


The gist of the article is summarised below:

[1] The Earth was levelled and spread wide to make it habitable. This does not mean that the whole planet is flat.

[2] The Quran confirms Earth-like objects in the observable cosmos in verse 65:12. To date, all these earth-like celestial objects have been shown to be a sphere-like shape and not flat.

065:012
"It is God who has created seven/several heavens and of the Earth, the like of them."

[3] The focus of the Quran's narrative is not to provide evidence for the shape of the earth per se, but rather to ponder over the vast realms of God's creation, with a view to acknowledge Him as the Creator and Supreme authority.

[4] The Quran provides multifaceted examples through verifiable observations / perceptions of the planet and the wider cosmos. This does not imply that its intention is to primarily present challenging concepts that would be blatantly unacceptable to the understanding / sensibilities / perceptions of the people or to present novel scientific observations which were impossible to observe (53:49) or verify. However, these signs do incorporate 'Divine fingerprints' which could be better understood with the advancement of scientific discovery. After all, the Quran is a Scripture that needs to remain current, appropriate and consistent with time.

I hope this helps, God willing.
Joseph

[niaz]

Salaamun alaikum,

Further, "planet earth" is a restricted meaning of the arabic الأرْضَ. Literally "the land", it is a meaning that is not restricted to this planet. The planet earth itself is neither special or significant in the scale of the cosmos, nor is our sun, our solar system or even our galaxy. God made the whole universe conducive for life, and this planet formed from solar material just like other planets here, and like the exoplanets spread around the universe formed from stellar material. See here for a prior discussion ....

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1790.msg13017#msg13017

Regardless, God asks us to reflect upon nature. The very message of these verses is to make us observe and reflect and think and contemplate and ponder on the world around us, as God emphasizes over and over in the Quran. We are responsible for how we use our minds and our senses (17:36). This rational contemplation teaches us that our universe is not geocentric, and not even heliocentric. We are just little beings inhabiting an unordinary land mass on a spiral arm of an unordinary galaxy.

Geocentrism and flat-earthism is an irrational conspiratorial movement. It is amazing how the Quranist movement got sucked into this and other conspiracy theories. In the process, they have stripped the Quran of its spiritual message and emphasis on worshipping and being appreciative to God, and of its rationality, in one go.

Peace.

[Aijaz]

https://topicsfromquran.wordpress.com/2018/05/19/creation-of-skies-and-the-earth/

Salam,
Regarding the Ayat 65:12 and 67:3, the similarity mentioned in the Skies and the Earth is in their structure i.e as skies are built i.e one above another, similarly earth is made of layers one above another. Details are given in above link to the post.

65:12  اللَّهُ الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ وَمِنَ الْأَرْضِ مِثْلَهُنَّ يَتَنَزَّلُ الْأَمْرُ بَيْنَهُنَّ لِتَعْلَمُوا أَنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ وَأَنَّ اللَّهَ قَدْ أَحَاطَ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عِلْمًا
Allah is He, who created seven skies and of the earth also the like of it. His orders descends between them so that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah encompasses, all things in (His) Knowledge

67:3 الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ طِبَاقًا ۖ مَّا تَرَىٰ فِي خَلْقِ الرَّحْمَٰنِ مِن تَفَاوُتٍ ۖ فَارْجِعِ الْبَصَرَ هَلْ تَرَىٰ مِن فُطُورٍ
He is who created the seven skies one above another. You will not see any imperfection in the creation of the Most Gracious. So turn your vision again. Do you see any flaw?

[niaz]

Salaamun alaikum,

Nice link ... the science is solid, very well done! Some of my understanding/leaning on your observations ....

1. In 67:5, 41:12, God says the "lowest sky" or "the sky of this world" (السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا) was adorned with lamps, which have to be stars. In 10:5, 71:16 the sun is described with other synonyms of lamps. In 37:6 كَوَاكِبِ can still mean planets, since they orbit stars. Which means God adorned the lowest sky with planetary systems.

• note: stars and planets did not adorn our universe when God created it. Stars adorned our universe later (estimated as a couple of hundred million years after the creation).
  

2. Just like الْحَيَوةَ الدُّنْيَا - "the life of this world" which is life in our universe, I understand السَّمَاءَ الدُّنْيَا as the sky that we can observe from this world - i.e., our observable universe, so I agree with your "third scenario". 41:12 says each sky was given its own law (أَمْرَ). So the laws that govern the other skies may not be the same as in ours.

3. 65:12 can also mean similarity in number. I.e., every sky also has land (الْأَرْضِ) in them.

Peace.

[Duster]

Geocentrism and flat-earthism is an irrational conspiratorial movement. It is amazing how the Quranist movement got sucked into this and other conspiracy theories. In the process, they have stripped the Quran of its spiritual message and emphasis on worshipping and being appreciative to God, and of its rationality, in one go.

So true!!   It's mind boggling! 

Shalom / peace

[Wakas]

Some may find this post interesting:
https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9607169.msg364471#msg364471