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Offline miracle114

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Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« on: July 07, 2018, 10:17:44 AM »
Salaam all
Forgive me if this is a slightly disturbing question but after listening to zakir naik say he can list a 1000 things God can't do I was curious to know others thoughts.
I believe there is a verse where Allah says there can be no more than one God as they will fight for dominion and the fact that we are told repeatedly Islam is submission to one God we know there can be only one God. My question is, could God still create another God like himself if he wanted to?

Kind regards and peace

Offline Athman

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2018, 01:44:47 AM »
Dear miracle114,

As salaam alaikum,

First of all, in my humble opinion, I think that it has to be clear what one means by 'incapability' in the context of God - 'things God can't do.' I find what is many a times referred to as 'incapability' of God to be 'falsehood' in the sense of 'that which is nonsense by definition.' Something that makes no sense, insensible, nothing at all for real. This has nothing to do with ones power, or ones capacity at large. The latter is somehow what is frequently confused with 'falsehood.' That is, it is one thing to claim that God 'can do something - unintelligible,' which is not true, and another to say that God 'does true, intelligible and substantial things that by definition make sense.'

For example, ultimately, God manifests truth at all avenues. Nothing limits Him from that. However, it is actually silly and futile to claim that God is powerless because He 'can't manifest falsehood.' In itself, this statement is 'false,' since it actually means nothing. By definition, 'falsehood' is not an attribute of God, 'truth' is (22:62). He infact always advocates for it (21:18, 34:49, 2:42).

With that being said, one has to distinguish such a concept of 'falsehood' from that of 'incapability' in actually doing something true. The latter, which a times is narrowly falsely attributed to God can for instance be depicted by such illustrations as 'suspension of Laws of nature' (2:259, 26:63), 'manifestation of miracles' (20:20, 28:32), etc. Br. Joseph touches on such a distinction in a thread [1] below. See the following quote:

Indeed, God cannot create falsehood like creating another God. However, to temporarily suspend a law that He Himself created to manifest a particular truth to a people is not falsehood. It is an attempt to show God's reality. Please see verse 12:76 where God assisted Prophet Joseph to circumvent a law (the kings law – dini l-maliki) to manifest a truth. The question remains - Did God make Joseph lie and 'manufacture' falsehood? This would not be possible.

012:076
"Thus did We plan for Joseph. He could not take his brother by the law of the king except that God willed it (so)"

God is not bound by human laws or laws that He has created for His creatures. He can suspend them to manifest truths. This would remain my central assertion.


As regards the condemned 'multiple Gods concept,' I think you may be referring to verse 23:91. See also 21:22.

"Allah has not taken any son, nor has there ever been with Him any deity. [If there had been], then each deity would have taken what it created, and some of them would have sought to overcome others. Exalted is Allah above what they describe [concerning Him]." (Qur'an, Al-Mu'minun 23:91)

I see such an illustration to actually be cited as a plausible scenario that would possibly rise given the multiple 'Gods' concept. This is to bring the point home that God can essentially and truthfully only be 'one' - ahad. This points to one of the qualities of God that are subtly summarized in 'suratul Ikhlas,' 112:1-4.

In another verse, 17:42, God seems to also assert the truth of 'God' being the ultimate 'One' (112:1). That is, if one were to even allow the idea of many 'Gods,' one wouldn't escape the fact that those 'Gods' would require an ultimate referential one - now the true One God Himself.

Ultimately, I think one has to carefully take note of the different ways by which 'conceptualization' of God is made amongst people. Most of them are built on a faulty premise. From a believer's perspective, I find the '4' qualities of God captured in 112:1-4 to actually subtly be criterial for a true God. Thus, the idea of 'creating another God' doesn't even come into question. It actually shies away from the quality of being 'incomparable' (112:4). 'Comparability' is a quality of 'creation.' By definition, God creates, and the created is His creation. Creating God is thus 'falsehood' since it undoes the whole definition of God - the Creator, the Uncreated.

Hopefully that somehow helps insha Allah.

Regards,
Athman.


REFERENCE:

[1]. Does Allah Change His Laws?
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=446.0

Offline miracle114

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2018, 08:32:03 PM »
Salaam brother Athman
Jzk and as always your views are truly appreciated.
Thanks for the time effort taken brother 

Salaam.

Offline Abdullah1405

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2018, 04:53:13 AM »
This type of questions are especially asked by atheists who think that they will outsmart believers and put them through the hoop. Another version of this is " Can God create a rock which he cannot lift." If the believer to whom the question is asked says "yes" then they will say "aha God is not that strong afterall." If he says no then they will be like "aha God is not that capable afterall." The main problem with their logic which they intentionally or unintentionally overlook is that they try to estimate God through qualities that only apply to human beings. Being able or not are humanly qualities that cannot be ascribed to God. As we all know  God is the creator of everything  including logic as well. The best answer to this kind of illogical questions, in my humble opinion, is to tell them this: "Yes he can create a rock that he cannot lift and with this he can also create a different logic system where his being unable to lift that rock will not be a problem at all." If they Object saying this is illogical then I say "If you can ask illogical questions then you have to accept illogical answers."
Do the people think that they will be left alone on saying "We believe," and that they will not be tested?

Offline miracle114

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2018, 05:59:02 AM »
Salaam brother
Yep I get this it's very good logic and point about looking at God's abilities through a human lens is going to have disastrous results in that the outcome is going to be at best a human centric view.
I hope your not implying I am an aetheist  :)

Kind regards peace

Offline Abdullah1405

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2018, 06:41:55 AM »

I hope your not implying I am an aetheist  :)


No, not at all :) Peace.
Do the people think that they will be left alone on saying "We believe," and that they will not be tested?

Offline relearning

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 08:33:43 PM »
this question is one of the bugs in the idea of god.

Offline ilker

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2018, 09:08:26 AM »
Salam all,

In my opinion, this question is simply illogical:

Because if God would create another God, the latter one (created one) cannot be a real God, with capital G, because of being created. I mean, logically the second one cannot be God because some other being created him.

On the other hand, if the first God creates another God, then he shouldn't be called a God anymore because now there is a copy of him, he is not the One and Only. In the abstract sense, "God" must be a "being" with no other competitors and alikes.

So this question is not a bug. It is basically not a logical question. We have to understand the concept of "GOD" correctly first.

May Allah (swt increase our knowledge and guide us all to His path.

Take care inshaAllah.


Offline miracle114

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2018, 05:51:10 AM »
Salaam
I believe its pointless question. I recall some verses where Allah the Almighty asks idolaters on whos authority they are worshipping other God's.
From an ability perspective yes God can create anything he wants, perhaps an authority or power of great importance almost equal to him but from he is slone all capable of all matters so the question does end up redundant in a sense.

Salaam and thanks

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 07:17:05 AM »
The God is supreme who can create any thing but  any other other God as is God
is  not possible.
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline miracle114

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Re: Can God create another God like himself if he wanted to
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2021, 06:16:04 PM »
Salaam Just wanted to reply to my own post