Wahi and 33:62 ?

[Talib]

Dear All,

Salamun Alaikum


I recently had a discussion with someone on FB, who I suppose has an Atheistic approach/understanding about Life.

She said,

please explain. We have this belief in god because a physical form, Muhammed, said so, and his authority and credibility are assured by this god deity that supposedly tells us through Muhammed that Muhammed is his messenger. Great logic, honey.

She also posted a link :   http://mukto-mona.net/Articles/kasem/quran_origin.htm


Regarding the Article (link), I do not take it for much of credit as the claims therein are based on the extra-Quranic sources and I find them HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC. So that is not what I really want to discuss here.


How can we really Prove that Quran is the WORD OF GOD ?

I find a lot of scientific facts in the Quran which we have only recently found out about through Modern Science. And I have read some books like 'Who Wrote the Quran' by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed Sir and 'Quran and Modern Science : Conflict or Conciliation' by Dr. Zakir Naik Sir.

I find that mostly people prove the Quran to be the Word of God because of the Zero Probability of Muhammad(S) to have said all the Scientific things in Quran and none turned out to be problematic.

I am confused here, but the MAIN THING that I am thinking is .. 

In 33:62, Allah says that we will not find any change in the Laws of Allah.

But what about revelations to Messengers ??

Is it not the God's intervention with the human Laws of acquiring guidance by using God's given Conceptual and Perceptual faculties by way of Observation  and Experimentation and Innovation ??

If Yes, then how do I understand 33:62 ?

If No, then how did God 'choose' men for His special guidance without intervening with the Laws ?

Ah ! what is meant by 'wahi' really ?


Please clarify.

Thank you

Regards
Talib
(student)

[HOPE]

Salaam Talib,

My understanding of 33:62 is not about the laws of nature but about sunnatullah regarding those who cause fasad in the world  And when it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on the earth,'' they say: "We are only peacemakers.  2.217: "to prevent mankind from following the Way of Allâh, to disbelieve in Him."

God given intellect alone is not sufficient, God's proof is substantiated by means of the fitrah in every person, the root of all spiritual matters as opposed to by means of the tabi'ah (nature) in every person, the root of all material and instinctive matters. It is hoped that the man choose his way of fitrah.

[Mubashir]

Salam

Let us see what the verse (33:62) says:

33:62 Such has been God’s way with those who [sinned in like manner and] passed away aforetime - and never wilt thou find any change in God’s way!

If we read the context, then clearly it is referring to Allahs Way of dealing with those who oppose and misbehave. Let us start from 33:60

THUS IT IS: if the hypocrites, and they in whose hearts is disease, and they who, by spreading false rumours, would cause disturbances in the City [of the Prophet] desist not [from their hostile doings]. We shall indeed give thee mastery over them, [O Muhammad] - and then they will not remain thy neighbours in this [city] for more than a little while:

33:61 bereft of God’s grace, they shall be seized wherever they may be found, and slain one and all.

Judging from the above is is not clear Allah is referring to His Law (which He never changes) is about human (mis) behaviour and not laws concerning physics and science?

Based on the above misinterpretation, many have rejected the possibility of miracles in Qur'an thereby end up with strange interpretations of certain verses like birth of Jesus and the rod of Moses.

That said, to be honest, I sometimes have difficulty in understanding certain verses like Birds dropping stones from the sky, ants and birds talking like humans. I suspect, these may be related to having a proper understanding the way certain things are allegorically explained in the Arabic language, but I am not sure.

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Talib,

I agree with Hope regarding the verse talking about the fact that God does not change His ways when dealing with wayward people.

If we understand the verse in this way then when messengers are chosen by God, no 'laws' are broken when God communicates with them.

Wahi means inspiration. That can take place in several ways:

42.51 "It is not for any mortal that God should speak to him unless it be by Revelation or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger (angel) to reveal, by His leave, whatever He wills (to reveal). Surely He is All-Exalted, All-Wise."

Please remember though that inspiration can be for scriptural purposes as with the messengers and also for non scriptural purposes when God wishes to communicate with the ordinary human. An example of this is when God inspired the mother of Prophet Moses (pbuh) to place him in the basket when he was a baby.

Thanks

[HOPE]

Salaam,

Two examples of God's unchanging manner with the wicked in the past:

As for Thamud, We showed them the right path, but they preferred blindness to guidance, consequently they were hit by the humiliating punishment of a dreadful noise which they deserved because of their misdeeds". ( 41:17)

Referring to the downfall of Pharaoh's people, the Holy Qur'an says: "That is because Allah does not withdraw the favour He has bestowed on any people unless they first change what is in their hearts, and that is because Allah is Hearer, Knower". ( 8:53)

[Talib]

Salamun Alaikum

Dear Hope, Truth Seeker and Mubashir Sir

Thank you for replying.

I looked into the verse 33:62 and I would agree and confess that I did not notice or take the verse in the context. It does make a different sense when taken in context.

That said, this changes a lot of what I used to think/understand about the way of God.


It does make sense, at some level, that Wahi means Inspiration.  Inspiration means -
   
1. The process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, esp. to do something creative: "flashes of inspiration".

2.The quality of having been so stimulated, esp. when evident in something: "a moment of inspiration in an otherwise dull display".
(Googled)

By relating this, the way I understand is :

If Prophet Muhammad(S) was Inspired or mentally stimulated to do or feel something or understand about things, then he should have understood about the present scenario that he was in. I mean, Prophet Muhammad could have understood about the Scientific facts etc present in the Quran as Verses.

But how could he know what EXACTLY happened in the History ? And the way the Quran is written, I mean, the Figure of Speech, It does not sound like a person is writing them who is Inspired about things by way of Intelligence.

That should mean that, God Inspiring for non scriptural purposes is a different way/medium? of Inspiring ?

And God Inspiring for Scriptural purposes is a different way/medium? of Inspiring ?

That still leaves me with the question that How does God Inspire for Scriptural purpose ?

The verse, Respected Truth Seeker mentioned :

42.51 "It is not for any mortal that God should speak to him unless it be by Revelation or from behind a veil, or by sending a messenger (angel) to reveal, by His leave, whatever He wills (to reveal). Surely He is All-Exalted, All-Wise."


WAHYAN = Revelation     AW = Or   MIN = From   WARAI = Behind   HIJABIN = a Veil  Or   YURSILA RASULAN = By sending a Messenger.

About the verse, I could be wrong and you may correct me, (Angel) should not be put into brackets with RASULAN .. Isnt it ?
I think the verse is for the general people and God is telling them that God speaks to them (any mortal) Either by Revelation or from behind the veil, or by sending a Messenger.

However, this is also confusing to note what is meant by  "From Behind a Veil".

If we understand the word WAHI = Revelation = Inspiration,  Then the part of verse that says "..to him(any mortal) unless it be by Revelation.. " probably indicates the 'Inspiration for Non Scriptural purpose'  as you(Dear Truth Seeker) say. And the part of verse that says "..or by sending a Messenger.."  should indicate the 'Inspiration for Scriptural purpose'.  Correct ?

Then that should be all. I mean human got Inspiration by himself and by a Messenger.   What is "From behind a Veil".  Does Quran clarify this elsewhere ?


Ah ! I am sure I sound so confusing. But thats exactly what I am right now. Please dont mind.


Now that I know that the Verse 33:62 does not indicate the physical laws of Science, I wonder what does dropping of stones by birds mean (105:4),  Staff of Moses (26:32), not to forget the Birth of Jesus  and the crossing of the Sea/River etc..

Personally, as much as I am trying to understand Quran deeper, I do get to gain a lot of understanding but at the same time I sometimes find myself disagreeing to those who say that Quran is easy to understand. They mention (54:17, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40)   I think Zikr does not mean to Understand but Remember.

One thing that I know for sure is .. I MUST learn Arabic if I want to understand Quran. But I do not know where to go to learn it.

I am surrounded with pathetic people that come from Dar Ul Uloom, Deoband, India. These 'Alims' are running one of the LARGEST institute for "Islamic" studies in India, and they spread their 'wisdom' by saying that they 'Teach' Quran to the 'Unseen' Jins in 'special' classes and say that 'you cannot understand Quran' and all that '18 uloom' thing.

I am gonna have to migrate to another country !!  Lot of Circus here with 'Religion' !


Thank you

Regards

Talib.

[Saba]

Salam br. Talib...... please also see the following article by brother Joseph which is really informative and talks about wahi, 42.51 and who can receive wahi. Saba


http://quransmessage.com/articles/wahi%20FM3.htm

[Truth Seeker]

Salaam Talib,

The verse in question talks about mankind and by which mechanisms God communicates with them. Prophets/Messengers and also average people are included in this.

We have 'wahi' which is 'inspiration'. I feel that maybe this is a strong thought in the mind that makes a person want to act on it.
Behind a veil in my opinion means direct communication with God (but not visual) as was in Prophet Moses's (pbuh) case .
Finally by sending a messenger means that an angel is sent to deliver God's message. Mary came in direct contact with an angel when the good news was given to her about Prophet Jesus (pbuh).

Thanks

[Passerby]

I agree with most of the answers here, but I wanted to reply to something in your original post:

She said,

please explain. We have this belief in god because a physical form, Muhammed, said so, and his authority and credibility are assured by this god deity that supposedly tells us through Muhammed that Muhammed is his messenger. Great logic, honey.

In my humble opinion, the correct answer is:  "I believe in God not because someone tells me I should, but because everything that I have experienced, seen, and sensed has brought me to the logical conclusion that there is a power greater than anyone else on this earth."