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Offline Wakas

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« on: October 24, 2012, 03:48:52 AM »
salaam Joseph, all,

Question:
Quote
2) Haaj and shaving the head...
 
Again Joseph, I have read thru the article, what is the reason/wisdom behind the shaving (or shortening ) of the hair?


Answer:
Quote
Response to Question 2:

No reason is given by the Quran. Like the Tawaaf of Safa and Marwa, Arafat and the Sacred Monument, the shaving or cutting of the hair was a pre-jahaliyya rite of worship allowed to continue in the name of the One God as part of Hajj. [3]
http://quransmessage.com/articles/hajj%20FM3.htm

I agree that the above answer is perhaps the only answer one can give, as there is simply no reason given in Quran. But even if there is no reason, is it actually practical and logical? This we can ponder over...

Quote
Critical Question 1: if you (plural) are prevented from completing hajj/3umra, then how can you ensure the hady reaches its mahilla?
This simple question is commonly neglected by translators. There is variance amongst traditional commentators/jurists as to how to go about this, some say wherever you are sacrifice an animal and that is fine (which goes against the Arabic!) or some say send it but fail to explain how or with whom. If one translates it in such a way, however it gets there this should be explained by Quran itself, if so, the only words that could possibly explain this are: "do not HLQ your RAS". This in itself is strong evidence against the traditional translation of "do not shave your heads". Please note there is also variance when it comes to when to "shave your head" as the Arabic implies one can only do so when the HDY reaches its permitted place, but imagining a practical situation is difficult, i.e. the person sends HDY then waits then when someone (we dont know who) returns and tells them yes your HDY did reach where it was sent you may now shave your head they then do so on their say so.
Even if we were to accept these variant baseless explanations, translating it in the traditional way does not make any sense because having a adhan/hurt of head preventing head-shaving (e.g. cut, infection, surgery, sunburn, toupe, bald) does not actually prevent one giving a HDY/offering! It would be like Quran mentioning something irrelevant such as having a sore pinky finger thus instead of giving HDY do something else instead, when having a sore pinky finger is completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.
In addition, the traditional understanding also differentiates between those with and without hurt of the head for no obvious/practical reason, which is illogical. No commentary that I read explains this away. See here for brief explanation of this point. Critical Question 2.

Source for the above can be given upon request.

Offline chadiga

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2012, 01:57:30 AM »
Salam Wakas and all

for me i had always problems to understand, why God should tell the people to shave the HEAD  - i mean, ras is head, not hair, or??
in an other  place in  the Quran is Zina mentioned and interpreted as (hair)  jewelry, this sure only by the traditional Muslims.
I do not why God is not in this example, expressly says in no uncertain terms HAIR SHEARS.
God used in the Koran always exactly the most fitting word.
Why not here?I 'm curious for answers.
Salam :)

Offline Wakas

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2012, 03:58:17 AM »
w/salaam,

There are various issues with the verses in question, in addition to what I have said. For example, in 48:27 the word "hair" is not in the Arabic, and when translators say "shave or shorten" there is no "aw/or" in the Arabic, it is "wa/and".

My view is very different on 2:196 and 48:27, however, it is after significant research I now hold the following view:

2:196 And complete/fulfil the conference/symposium and the visit for God.
So if you are prevented/restrained then (give) what is easy of the offering/gift and do not relieve/cancel your chiefs/representatives (of this duty) until the offering reaches its permitted/lawful place (al bayt al atiq, see 22:33),
so whoever from among you was sick (singular) or with him hurt/harm/annoyance from his chief then redeem from abstinence/fast or charity or observance.
So when (time adverb) you (plural) are safe/secure (i.e. in the designated vicinty) then whoever benefited/enjoyed in/with the visit to the conference/symposium then (give) what is easy of the offering so whoever couldn't find (singular) then an abstinence/fast three days during the conference/symposium and seven when you (plural) returned, this is ten complete.
That is for one whose people are not at-hand/present (at) the inviolable time of acknowledgement/SJD, and be conscious of God and know that God is severe in punishment.


48:27 Certainly, God has confirmed His messenger's vision* with truth/reality, surely you (plural) will enter al masjid al haram (the inviolable time of acknowledgement/SJD), if God wills, securing/trusting, unburdening/relieving your chiefs/representatives, and restraining/relinquishing not fearing. So, He knew what you did not know, and He made besides that a victory near/close.
* Arabic: 'al ruya' (dream/vision), see 17:1-7 and 17:60


Offline HOPE

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2012, 06:08:25 AM »
Salam Wakas,

How about approaching the subject from a spiritual perspective.  Many of the rites of Hajj can be explained symbolically like wearing of ihram indicates an artificial barriers we set up by the material of our clothing or running between Safa and Marwa could point out to our readiness to come running in carrying out God's commands with the urgency as opposed to procrastination or assembling at Arafat can be reminder of our inevitable assembly before God.  Why not shaving head or cutting hair mean that it is time now to pay attention to your physical needs when you neglected them before because you were paying attention to the cares of your soul?  Makes much more sense to me than symposiums/conferences.  Just another perspective.

Peace
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Wakas

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2012, 09:42:14 PM »
w/salaam,

Salam Wakas,

How about approaching the subject from a spiritual perspective.  Many of the rites of Hajj can be explained symbolically like wearing of ihram indicates an artificial barriers we set up by the material of our clothing or running between Safa and Marwa could point out to our readiness to come running in carrying out God's commands with the urgency as opposed to procrastination or assembling at Arafat can be reminder of our inevitable assembly before God.  Why not shaving head or cutting hair mean that it is time now to pay attention to your physical needs when you neglected them before because you were paying attention to the cares of your soul?  Makes much more sense to me than symposiums/conferences.  Just another perspective.

Peace

Of course, one could interpret various things as symbolic of XYZ etc but I'm not so sure that is well-founded in Quran. Seems a very subjective approach.

Also, I do not see how that would necessarily make more sense than conference/symposium for example.

Offline HOPE

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2012, 12:15:05 AM »
Salaam Wakas,

Quote
Also, I do not see how that would necessarily make more sense than conference/symposium for example.

2:196  And accomplish the Hajj and the Umrah for the sake of Allah.

But if you are intercepted, then whatever offering you can afford; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination.

But whoever of you is sick or has an ailment on his head, then he should offer an expiation by fasting or alms-giving or sacrificing.

But when you are safe, then whoever profits by the Umrah with the Hajj, then whatever offering is easy to obtain


And complete/fulfil the conference/symposium and the visit for God.
So if you are prevented/restrained then (give) what is easy of the offering/gift and do not relieve/cancel your chiefs/representatives (of this duty) until the offering reaches its permitted/lawful place (al bayt al atiq, see 22:33),
so whoever from among you was sick (singular) or with him hurt/harm/annoyance from his chief then redeem from abstinence/fast or charity or observance.


You say symposium/conference, I say Hajj with 4 steps to accomplish
ihram- not in Quran, means to make certain things haram for yourself until you complete your rites- that is a stage of soul purification where you withhold your anger, hate, sex drive, swearing, killing involved with the physical part of yourself.   your mind and soul is focused on God in ihram state.
tawaf 2:158
sa'yi 2:158
arafat  2:198

You say visit, I say Umrah 2:158

But if we cannot accomplish the above because of some unforeseen events like war, accidents, sickness, then whatever sacrificial offering we can afford, offer where detained, then you are allowed to shave, a symbol of getting out of ihram going back to your life with your physical needs.  But if you have a physical problem with your head that requires shaving, for example, you are hurt and need stitches to the head where a part needs to be shaved during ihram, not after sacrificial offering, then offer either additional sacrifice, charity, or fasting for expiation.  Another scenario, you were prevented completely from participating yet conditions improved and now you are ready to perform your duty, then do Umrah and if you cannot find an offering, then do the fasting of 3 days at the location and 7 more days when you return home if you do not reside in the vicinity and have come  from far off places. you are not in ihram during umra.

Are you rejecting this understanding just for the sake of rejecting tradition?  I do not deny Hajj only peel layers to get to the core.



"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline HOPE

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2012, 05:31:25 AM »
Peace Wakas,

Quote
Certainly, God has confirmed His messenger's vision* with truth/reality, surely you (plural) will enter al masjid al haram (the inviolable time of acknowledgement/SJD), if God wills, securing/trusting, unburdening/relieving your chiefs/representatives, and restraining/relinquishing not fearing. So, He knew what you did not know, and He made besides that a victory near/close.
* Arabic: 'al ruya' (dream/vision), see 17:1-7 and 17:6

48:27  Here is an example of being intercepted by a war or hostility that prevents one from completing the hajj duty.  The kafaroo hindered the Prophet from visiting the Ka'bah and the offering, being detained by them, has not reached their place of sacrifice 22: 33 and the Prophet had to return.  The vision of performing the Hajj in safety in a state of ihram in the near future  is made good to him by God.   Prophet does not know when the "near future" is, when the dream will be fulfilled, (in the meantime) God provided a Near Victory, not the "fathan mubeenan" mentioned in the first verse which probably refers to the fulfillment of the vision.

"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Wakas

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2012, 06:20:24 AM »
w/salaam Hope,

Are you rejecting this understanding just for the sake of rejecting tradition?  I do not deny Hajj only peel layers to get to the core.

I try to go where the evidence of Quran takes me.

Whilst I followed some of what you said, I am unclear on others. However, if you wish to answer the following, it may help me understand your position better (parts in bold):


Critical Question 1: if you (plural) are prevented from completing hajj/3umra, then how can you ensure the hady reaches its mahilla?
This simple question is commonly neglected by translators. There is variance amongst traditional commentators/jurists as to how to go about this, some say wherever you are sacrifice an animal and that is fine (which goes against the Arabic!) or some say send it but fail to explain how or with whom. If one translates it in such a way, however it gets there this should be explained by Quran itself, if so, the only words that could possibly explain this are: "do not HLQ your RAS". This in itself is strong evidence against the traditional translation of "do not shave your heads". Please note there is also variance when it comes to when to "shave your head" as the Arabic implies one can only do so when the HDY reaches its permitted place, but imagining a practical situation is difficult, i.e. the person sends HDY then waits then when someone (we dont know who) returns and tells them yes your HDY did reach where it was sent you may now shave your head they then do so on their say so.
Even if we were to accept these variant baseless explanations, translating it in the traditional way does not make any sense because having a adhan/hurt of head preventing head-shaving (e.g. cut, infection, surgery, sunburn, toupe, bald) does not actually prevent one giving a HDY/offering! It would be like Quran mentioning something irrelevant such as having a sore pinky finger thus instead of giving HDY do something else instead, when having a sore pinky finger is completely irrelevant to what is being discussed.
In addition, the traditional understanding also differentiates between those with and without hurt of the head for no obvious/practical reason, which is illogical. No commentary that I read explains this away. See here for brief explanation of this point. Critical Question 2.


Offline HOPE

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2012, 09:27:38 AM »
Salaam Wakas,

Like you, we are all trying to go where Quranic evidence takes us.

Quote
if you (plural) are prevented from completing hajj/3umra, then how can you ensure the hady reaches its mahilla?

Either you do it yourself or a reliable person you hire does it for you.  Only after the sacrificial offering prohibitions end.  I do not know all the details.  Never got a chance to do it myself.  I am sure there are many do's and don'ts and how's.  I am just going by the steps mentioned in the Quran according to my understanding.  When I asked you why you are against the traditional understanding of Hajj, I only meant Hajj is Hajj in Kabah and not the annual Islamic conference.  As far as shaving and cutting is concerned, you do whatever applies to you. Shave head and beard or cut hair before and after ihram.  Shaving during ihram 'breaks' it like breaking the fast before its time.  There is penalty.
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Saba

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2012, 09:50:22 AM »
.............only peel layers to get to the core.

I liked that statement! ... This is my way too when I try to get to the bottom of a lot Muslim beliefs  8)

Offline Wakas

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Re: Q&A Blessings, Shaving the Head and Dhikr
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2012, 10:10:41 PM »
w/salaam Hope,

Thanks for the reply.

Quote
if you (plural) are prevented from completing hajj/3umra, then how can you ensure the hady reaches its mahilla?

Either you do it yourself or a reliable person you hire does it for you. 

I do not see how one can do it themselves, as it clearly says "if you (plural) are prevented" but I do think one could do "a reliable person you hire does it for you".

Quote
As far as shaving and cutting is concerned, you do whatever applies to you. Shave head and beard or cut hair before and after ihram.  Shaving during ihram 'breaks' it like breaking the fast before its time.  There is penalty.

I'm not sure how this can be evidenced from Quran, however perhaps this is just me.