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Offline HOPE

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oppressive queen
« on: December 06, 2012, 08:30:14 AM »

Peace brother Joseph and all,

Verse 27:23 i "I found there a woman ruling over them, one who has been granted everything (that a ruler is expected to have), and who has a mighty throne.”

Tamlikuhum is either translated as ‘ruling over’ or 'reigning over’ except Muhammad Ahmad-Samira’s rendering as “she owns/rules them”.

If owning can be used, then it is a totally different meaning:  The Queen had enslaved her people.  Thus the tension created by Solomon’s command disappears.

27:31 That do not become high, mighty and dignified over me, and come to me (as) Moslems/submitters .

This conflicts with the There is no compulsion in religion . 2:256 and
there should be no hostility except against the oppressors. 2:193
10:99, 18:29



"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: oppressive queen
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 01:51:18 AM »
Dear Hope,

Peace to you.

The active verb 'yamliku' from its primary verb 'malaka' simply means to have power of dominion over or to rule someone. This is no different from a ruler or monarch who has dominion over his / her subjects. It can also carry the nuance of ownership or possession. However, there is nothing in the verb per se, to imply that the rule was iniquitous.

With regards the crux of your question, I have written an article on a related concept which in my humble view can be derived from the Quran which other theologians have also alluded to.  Please see below reference [1], entitled ITMAM AL-HUJJAH - COMPLETION OF PROOF.

Historically, when God's wrath has met with a people there are a few things that have taken place:

  • A people follow incorrect beliefs and there is iniquitous behaviour and transgressions which have become part and parcel of their society and their deeds seem fair to them.
  • A messenger is sent / raised amongst the people making the matter of truth absolutely clear to them in their own language (14:4) about true religion.
  • Despite absolute clear proofs, the community continues to transgress beyond bounds, practice inequity with no intent to change behaviour (11:36)

028:059
“Nor was thy Lord the one to destroy a population until He had sent to its centre a messenger, rehearsing to them Our Signs; nor are We going to destroy a population except when its members practise iniquity (wrongdoers)”

089.011
"(All) these transgressed beyond bounds in the lands"

006.131
“This is because thy Lord destroys not the townships arbitrarily while their people are unconscious (of the wrong they do)”
 
011.117
“In truth thy Lord destroyed not the townships tyrannously while their folk were doing right”

This has always been God's way (sunnata-llahi) with the ways of the people of the past (sunnata awalina).

035.043
“On account of their arrogance in the land and their plotting of evil, but the plotting of evil will only encompass its own people. Now are they but waiting for the way the ancients were dealt with (Arabic: Sunnata Awalina)? But no change will you find in God's way (Arabic: Sunnata-llahi): and never will you find in God's way (Arabic: Sunnata-llahi) any change"

In the narrative that you kindly share, Prophet Solomon deemed it fit to part with truth to 'Saba' and her people.

With regards the condition of Saba and her people, what we have is the Hoopoe's testimony in which we are told the following in verse 27:24:

  • Saba and her people prostrated to the sun - (yasjudna lil'shams)
  • Satan had made their 'deeds' seem fair to them (wazyyana lahumu l'shaytan).
  • Because of (2) above, they had become averted from the way (fasaddahum ani 'sabili).

In my humble view, part 2 and 3 gives rise to strong suspicion within the Quranic text that some degree of inequity was indeed being carried out. This was not simply a case of incorrect beliefs, but incorrect beliefs which possibly led to iniquitous deeds. Although the Quranic text tacitly alludes that these deeds seemed fair to Saba and her people, they were actually a transgression from the true way. (fasaddahum ani 'sabili).

The Quranic text does not deem it fit to elucidate as to what kind of deeds were being committed that made them lose their way, but some kind of inequity is implied by the phrase 'wazyyana lahumu l'shaytan'.

It was enough for Prophet Solomon's conscience for him to intervene which possibly formed the basis of his communication.

Hence there is no conflict in my mind with verse 2:256 and the concept of freedom of belief but there is support in my humble view that any hostility arose due to the inequities that were also being carried out as a result of Saba and her people following an incorrect system. This would support the sentiment contained within verse 2:193 that you share.

Of course Saba has been shown in the Quran to be one that consulted with her people on certain affairs (27:29). In the case of Pharaoh, he also consulted with his people (26:35). 
However Pharaoh’s deeds constituted heinous crimes (7:141) and there was no intent to change. However, it should be remembered that some rulers live in the delusion that their practices are correct and those that come with the truth are rather the oppressors intent on causing corruption in the land (40:26).

However, in contrast, Saba was found to be a ruler who submitted to the truth once the truth reached her with clarity (27:44). One cannot conclude about the general condition of her people but there is a possible hint that they again later went astray (34:16).

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.

REFERENCE:

[1] ITMAM AL-HUJJAH - COMPLETION OF PROOF
http://quransmessage.com/articles/itmam%20FM3.htm


'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline HOPE

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Re: oppressive queen
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 02:35:08 AM »
Peace Joseph,

Thank you for the reply.  I was aware of your article and I am in complete agreement with it yet did not realize that it applied in this case.  I cannot escape my linear thinking.  What comes first?  I saw Solomon bullying the queen before the truth reaches her; I had to make her the 'bad guy' to dissipate the tension. I stand corrected and apologize Saba.
 








UPDATE BY QM FORUM MODERATOR

13th March 2013

This thread is now closed and a direct link to this post is now available at the dedicated Q&A page.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/q&as%20FM3.htm

Thanks.

"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"