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Offline HOPE

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Knowing God
« on: December 01, 2012, 11:18:23 PM »
Peace to all,


"The green in every tree is YOU.
The beauty of every garden is YOU.
My wealth, my work
my Master, is YOU.
There is no reality except YOU."
~Rumi



The essence of existence is something we name God and  outside God  can exist nothing but emptiness.
“All that is to perish and forever will remain the Face of your Sustainer, the Possessor of Majesty and Generous Giving” 55:26-27

In the beginning there is no time, no space only Divine Being in His undifferentiated Essence (Dhat).  Bukhari hadith reports that the Prophet allegedly said,  “God was and there was nothing with Him”

The Essence first differentiates itself into Divine duality  and from there into plurality.  The Jalal- jamal, negative-positive, male-female, mercy-wrath, Yang-ying, gentle-severe, active-receptive are the  two basic perspectives of Divine Reality.  God introduces Himself through al-asma’ al-husna.

There is another hadith attributed to the Prophet that only the Sufis accept as sound.  For creation, God allegedly said, ‘I was a hidden treasure and I desired to be known‘   Whether this is sound or not, it helps in knowing God,  in my opinion.

What can and cannot be known about God?   What is it that differentiates God from everything in the cosmos? 

He is not similar to anything else:  incomparability.  He is what everything else is not.
 
 Tanzih declares His incomparability, transcendence and distance from creation and human insignificance.

        42:11 “Nothing can be compared with Him!”   God in His Essence cannot be known. “None knows God but God”
   3:97  “God is independent of all creatures.” Ghani

 Tashbih declares His similarity and nearness with His creatures. 

   God is “with you wherever you are”  57:4
   He is “nearer to you than the jugular vein” 50:16
   “Wherever you turn, there is the face of God” 2:115
   “I respond to the call of one who calls, whenever he calls to Me” 2:186



To understand God as distant through His greatness, power, majesty, holiness is to see Him as the jalal, male, negative, yang, active aspects of the Reality.  To understand God close through His mercy, compassion, kindness, generosity, forgiveness is to see Him as the jamal, female, positive, yin, receptive aspects of the Reality.

God is not limited by either perspective.  God is not only inaccessible but is also present with His servants.  Incomparability yields  to “abd”and islam; Similarity yields to “khalifa” and ihsan when humans manifest nothing but the attributes of God.

There are many names related to acts of God which make sense only in relation to creation. 
Al-Ghafoor  forgives some people for their sins, hence the necessity for  sin. 
Al-Khaaliq cannot function without a creation.
Al-Rabb the Creator, Evolver, Sustainer and Cherisher of all the creatures and everything else in the world.  His protective care embraces both the physical and spiritual provisions for mankind. 

God does not create anything, living or non living in its perfect condition all at once; after creating a thing carries it through a series of stages, gradual creation.     This does not mean that He has no power to create a thing in its perfect form.  He does not do so to allow His Rububiyah to function. 

All the laws of nature  are  the manifestations of His attributes.  To think that His Absolute Power, one of His attributes, would go against His other attributes would amount to denying perfection to His attributes.  This is the reason the laws of God are immutable.

17:77      no change in the course
33:62      no change in the course
30:43      no alteration in the course


 Rabb attribute creates a thing and then develops it taking it from stage to stage till it attains perfection.  Rububiyah is another expression for the law of Evolution.

The concept of God demands incomparability and similarity, the cosmos and the complementary names.

"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2012, 01:57:37 AM »
Peace / shalom everyone


I am not one for selected quotes - sorry. Anyone can take selected quotes from individuals or Hadith which seem ok to digest. But what about other quotes or hadith which are not so nice to read. Some of the sufi ideas to me seem quite worrying to read.

For example, I found this posted on another forum. Any comments from Sufi inclined brothers and sisters most welcome >>>



RUMI?

Read Vol 3 pg 111
Hadith
#228.
No person should reach home to his family at night. Why?
According to a forged Hadith, the Prophet (S) used to advise them not to go home before dawn, saying, “Would any of you like to see his wife in bed with another man?”

Also, hear from Mullah Rumi:
When the companions went with the Prophet for battles, some of their wives had intimate relations with other men
. [Mullah Jalaluddin Rumi, Feeh-Ma-Feeh,Saleem Chishti, Islami Tasawwuf pg 66]

There is none else worthy of worship. Come and worship me.
(MullahJalaluddin Rumi, Mathnawi 4:52)

Jalaluddin Rumi never prayed. When the time for prayers came he used to vanish. At last, it was discovered that he used to pray in the Ka’bah -2000 miles away from Quniah, five times a day. (Khwaja Nizamuddin Awlia,Raahat-il-Quloob).

When the companions went with the Prophet for Ghazwaat (battles), some of their wives had sex with other men.
(Mullah Jalaluddin Rumi, Feeh-Ma-Feeh, Saleem Chishti, Islami Tasawwuf pg 66).

Jalaluddin Rumi narrated in his Mathnavi, “These four (Abu Hanifa, Malik,Hanbal, and Shafi’i) have carved four religions out of one Islam. They have created irreconcilable divisions in the Deen of Nabi (S).”

The wife of Mullah Jalaluddin Rumi thought that he lost his sexual desire.The Mullah came to know of her suspicion in a trance of revelation (kashf).That night he went to his wife and did it 70 times, (the language has been made milder) so much so that she asked his forgiveness.
(ShamsuddinAkhlaqi, Manaqib-il-Arifain pg 70)

I declare that Shams Tabrez is my Shams (the Sun) and he is my God.
Commenting on the above, Ibn-Baham writes that Mullah Rumi was homosexual and he was deeply in love with the boy Shams Tabrez. (Commentary on Rumi’s Mathnawi by Ibn-Baham)

MullahJalaluddin Rumi wrote a couplet describing the scene:
Because the companions loved the world much They left the Prophet without a coffin and funeral

The Quran calls the exalted Prophet “Al-Muzammil” (The best judge offriends and companions). Could he choose for his companions those that Mullah Rumi, the narrators of Hadith and the Mullahs portray?

A Persian verse of Mullah Jalaluddin Rumi translates:
I have grown my mind with the essence of the Quran and thrown away the bones for you dogs.
Matnawi Mullah Rumi).


For more quotes from Sufi mystics, see below from Criminals of Islam by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed.

SUFIS (MYSTICS) “THE ALIEN PLANT”

Now discover why Allama Iqbal calls Tasawwuf/Sufism (Mysticism) “An Alien Plant in the Soil of Islam.” The following paragraph summarizes the opinion of two of the greatest thinkers of the 19-20 century India, namely Sir Syed Ahmad Khan and Allama Shibli Na’mani. They state: “It is often claimed that the Sufis brought Islam to the Indo-Pak Subcontinent. A careful review of history gives us quite a different picture. Muslims ruled the Subcontinent for more than eight centuries, and today 80% of the population remains Hindu. The Muslims adopted and absorbed so much of Hindu mythology, customs, and traits that they became half-Hindus and half-Muslims. This happened because the philosophy of the “Unity of Being” was exactly the same among the Muslim Sufis and the Hindu Yogis. The only difference was that of nomenclature. The Hindu “Hama Oost” (All is He) was, and is, 100% interchangeable with “Wahdat-al-Wujood” (The Unity of Being) of the Sufi. Essentially, both mean that everything in the Universe is God.” Afkaar-e-Sir Syed Wa Shibli

Now prepare your mind for an awesome flight. See hundreds of mystics insulting human intelligence in the name of Islam. Watch them making mockery of God, His Messengers, His Guidance and the Laws of Nature. They go as far as their imagination can take them. Watch them play God, produce miracles, bash reason and kill common sense. Their true miracle, however, is that millions of Muslims still consider them as champions of Islam.

It is noteworthy that a time honored book, Safina-til-Baharij Vol 2 Pg 52 quotes a saying of the exalted Prophet, "Some people in my Ummah will be called Sufia, they will be worse than Kaafirs, and will be thrown in the Hellfire."

Here are some quotes from the Sufi books. Read---enjoy---have a good flight!

I am superior to Prophets and I am higher in rank than they are. (Sheikh Mohiuddin Ibn-Arabi, Hadeeqa Sultania Pg190)

I have denounced Islam. I believe this is incumbent on people. Allah is God sitting in the heavens, I am the God on earth. (Statement of Hussain bin Mansoor Hallaj, Khateeb Baghdadi Vol 8, Ibne Athir chapter 11:140)

Men of knowledge see the Shi’as as swines. (Mohiuddin Ibn-Arabi, Futoohat Makkia 2-8)

Sheikh Imam Abul Hassan Noori was in the company of his disciples. The call to prayers came. The Sheikh said, “It is death.” Then a dog barked. The Sheikh replied, "Labbaik ya Sayyedi!" - Yes, O My Master! (Ibn-e-Jozi Talbees-e-Iblis Pg 383)

My body has merged with the body of Rasulullah. Therefore, we are one. (Shah Waliullah, Anfasul Arifain)

I recite Surah Fatiha and walk across the river. (Mulfoozat Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri). The strange thing is not their silly claims. It is the people who believe in them.

In the assemblies of "URS" (communion of Sufi souls with God, literally, wedding with God), spirits of the dead Sufis come to dance around. (Mullah Abul Kalam Azad, the late Minister of Education in India. Iman-e-Khalis by Fazil ‘Uloom-e Deeniyah, Dr. Masooduddin Usmani Pg 63)

Allama Shibli Na’mani, Muhammad Husain Azad, Deputy Nazeer Ahmed and Sir Syed Ahmad Khan noted a weird exchange of religious dogmas in the Subcontinent. Centuries ago, the Brahmans (priest class) of India were alarmed as Hindu masses, impressed by the Message of true Monotheism and human equality, were finding Islam irresistible. To safeguard Hinduism, the Brahmans started the “Bhagti” movement in the 11th century, which preached that Raam and Raheem were one. Hindu Yogis befriended Muslim Sufia. They learned tricks from each other and called them “Karamat” and “Chamatkar” (Miracles). Their followers portrayed them as super-humans. Sheikh Sa’di Shirazi has correctly pointed out, “Saints fly not. Their disciples make them fly.”

The end result was a wholesale amalgamation of Islam and Hinduism, giving birth to a new religion that has been termed as the Ittihadi Deen (Unified Faith) by Dr. Usmani. In the process, Hindus who embraced Islam, and Muslims who were exposed to the currents of Vedant (Hindu Mysticism), all remained half-Hindus and half-Muslims. If some Hindus embraced Islam, many Muslims embraced Hinduism. Most Muslims of the subcontinent are in fact followers of the Unified Faith. It is no wonder that Hindus are very respectful of the “Muslim” Sufis.

Here is a glimpse of the Unified Faith: Hindus worship idols, Muslims worship graves. We have ‘Urs instead of Yatra, Tawaf of graves instead of Phairay, Agarbatti in place of Momebatti, Tabarruk versus Prashad, Qawwali versus Bhajan, Araq-e-Gulab versus Gangajal, Kharqa versus Zunnar, and so on. (Iman-e-Khalis by Fazil ‘Uloom-e Deeniyah, Dr. Masooduddin Usmani)

Hazrat Dawood Jawarbi had seen Allah. When asked about Allah, he said, “Ask me not about His genitals and His beard. Ask about anything else.” (Al-Milil-wan-Nahil, Imam Shahristani 1:96). Imam Shahristani should have reported ‘Hazrat’ Jawarbi to the authorities. And the authorities should have painted both as clowns and placed them on donkeys for a ride around the town for spreading such rubbish.

The priest in the church is our Allah. (Sheikh Ibn-Arabi, Qasasul Ulema Pg 53)

There is none else worthy of worship. Come and worship me. (Mullah Jalaluddin Rumi, Mathnawi 4:52)

Time for a hearty laugh: This morning Allah wrestled with me. He floored me because I am 2 years younger than He is. (Abul Hassan Kharqani, Fawaid Faridiya Pg 78)

Alas! The Muslim fails to understand that Allah can be found only in idol worship. (Sufi Mahmood Shabistri, Sharah Gulshan-e-Raz Pg 294)

Hanafis are people who are pacing toward Hellfire. The death anniversary of Imam Husain must be celebrated like the Festival of Eid. (“Piran-e-Pir Dastgeer” - The Saint of saints, Holder of hands - Abdul Qadir Jeelani, Ghania- til-Talibain Pg 190)

My foot is on the neck of every saint. So, I placed my foot on Hazrat Ali's neck. (Abdul Qadir Jeelani, Asrar-ul-Qadam Pg 191)

FACT: Jeelani was exhumed

It is worth recalling that the governor of Baghdad, Ubaidullah Yunus, leveled the home of “Peeraan-e-Peer, Dastgeer” abdul Qadir Jeelani (d. 1166), threw out his sons, exhumed his grave, burnt his remains, and plunged them in the river Tigris in 1170 CE. (Nujoom-uz-Zahrani 6:142)

I hate the God who does not appear as a dog or cat. (Ibn-Arabi, Khazeena Imaniyah Pg 168)

Whenever Khwaja Maudood Chishti desired to see the Ka’bah, angels airlifted it to the land of Chisht in India. (Malfoozat Khwaja Qutubuddin Bukhtiar Kaki, Fariduddin Ganj Shakar). This Khwaja Maudood Chishti is reported to be the ancestor of the famous Mullah-in-Chief of the 20th century, Maududi.

One thousand years have gone and so has the time of Muhammad. Now it is my time, the time of Ahmad. The second millennium is mine. (Sheikh Ahmad Sarhindi, the so-called “Mujaddid Alf-Sani”, Revivalist of the Second Millennium. (Mubda-wa-Ma’ad)

Books of the Tableeghi Nisab “Fazael A’mal” were presented to the exalted Prophet (in the twentieth century!) and he graciously certified them. (Behjatil Quloob Pg 12)

Khwaja Qutbuddin Maudood Chishti’s dead body flew in the air on its way to the graveyard. Khwaja Fareeduddin Ganj Shakar upon narrating this fell unconscious. (Rahatil-Quloob, Ganj Shakar). Ganj Shakar could not bear his own forgery, but he should have expired.

Adam cried for 300 years, so much so that birds made nests on his face. His tears brought forth so much grass that it covered his 60 meters long body. (Rahatul Muhibbeen c/o Ameer Khusro. Khwaja Nizamuddin Awliya)

A bird came and told us, "Tomorrow is Eid. Unlike humans we are free from lies.” Sheikh Faqirullah knew a crow that often learned Monotheism from him. (Reference same)

If Awliya (saints) wish, they can accept invitations from 10,000 towns and be there at the same time. (Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi, Malfoozat part I Pg 127)

When Shah Waliullah was in his mother’s womb, she said a prayer. Two tiny hands appeared from her belly for prayer. She was frightened. Her husband said, "You have Qutubul Aqtab (Saint of Saints) in your womb. (Mullah Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Hikayaat-e-Awliya Pg 17). What a breakthrough!

The Prophet laid the foundation of Darul ‘Uloom, Deoband, India (in the 19th century!) He comes to check the accounts of the Madrasah. He has learnt Urdu from the Ulema of Deoband. (Mubasshirat-e-Darul ‘Uloom and Deoband Number of the Darul ‘Uloom). Was this tale made up to lend credence to the Deoband Mullah factory?

One night I started flying from heaven to heaven until I reached the Prophet. He accepted my allegiance. (Shah Waliullah, Anfasul Arifain Pg 38-39).

Allah revealed Himself to me as an extremely beautiful, irresistible woman, adorned with fine ornaments and see-through garments. She suddenly embraced me and merged into my body. (Shah Waliullah, Anfasul Arifain Pg 94-95).

Now the reverse order: God converted Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani into a woman (in the 19th century) and had sex with him. (“Islami Qurbani.” Tract Number 34, Qazi Yar Muhammad Qadiyani)

The sun cannot rise before greeting me. The new year, the new month, the new day, cannot dawn without greeting me and informing me of every single event. (Malfoozat Ahmad Raza Barelwi about the exhumed ‘Ghaus Azam’ Abdul Qadir Jeelani)

A wolf was brought before Prophet Jacob. He said to the wolf, “Tell me about my son, Joseph.” The wolf said, “I am an animal, but I do no backbiting.” (Reference same)

Prophet Job prayed, “O God! Give me 12,000 tongues so that I may glorify Your Name.” God accepted his prayer and infested his body with 12,000 insects. (Reference same)

The mosquito that killed King Nimrod (Shaddad) of Babylon was lame. (Malfoozat Chishti). Thanks for the lame information!

Hazrat Uthman brought home a fish. All the firewood was burnt off, but the fish remained fresh (uncooked). When the Prophet asked the reason, the fish said, “I had sent my salutations to you once.” (Reference same)

Shah Waliullah believed in the Unity of Being. He believed that insects, animals, idols and human beings were all God. (Syed Farooq Al-Qadri, Anfasul Arifain)

Allah has only 99 virtuous names. I have more than 99, in fact 4000. (Shah Waliullah quoting his uncle, Anfasul Arifain Pg 210)





Offline Duster

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2012, 01:57:58 AM »
Some people told Shah Abdur Raheem (Shah Waliullah’s father) that they were trying to find God. My father said, “I am He!” They stood up and shook hands. (Reference same, Pg 93). Why didn’t they prostrate?

God came to me in a cloak in the guise of an extremely beautiful woman. I became passionate and said, “Cast aside your cloak.” The response came, “The cloak is very thin. It reveals my beauty.” I insisted, upon which the cloak was lifted. (Quote of father and son, Shah Abdur Raheem & Shah Waliullah, Anfasul Arifain Pg 94)

Imam Ahmad Bin Hanbal got his undeserved fame when his ego caused him to suffer lashes for a vain argument with the Abbasi Caliph. (Al-Tawassul Wal Waseela Pg 136). This one sounds true.

The great Pir (master saint) of the 19th century, Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi, has been quoted in his Malfoozat Pg 32, "Prophets are alive in their graves like ever before. They eat, drink, pray and receive their wives in the grave and engage with them in sex."

Now watch God’s retirement plan: Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jeelani claimed: Allah has made me Eternal and has joined me with Him. He has given in my hand this world and the Hereafter and all Creation. (Jeelani, Malfoozat Fuyuz Yazdani, Fath-e-Rabb-ani, Majlis 51)

PIRAN-E-PIR DASTGEER JEELANI DOOMED! The governor of Baghdad, Ubaidullah Yunus, leveled the home of Jeelani (d. 1166), threw out his sons, exhumed his grave, burnt his remains, and plunged them in the river Tigris (1170 CE). The governor had attained Fatwas against Jeelani that he was a Mushrik and Kaafir. (Nooruddin Shams, a disciple of the Pir Jeelani, Nujoom-uz-Zahrani 6:142). The “Piran-e-Pir”, the eternal master of the universe, could not help himself. Even then, millions of Muslims continue to call Jeelani as Piran-e-Pir ‘Dastgeer’ (The Saint of saints, the Holder of hands).

Prophet David and Prophet Muhammad both sinned because they saw the beauty of unclothed women. Then Uriah’s wife and Zaid’s wife became Haram (forbidden) for their husbands. (Ali Hajweri, alias “Daata Ganj Baksh,” the Giver of Treasures, Kalamil Marghoob Pg 349)

Junaid Baghdadi said that Prophet Solomon was the illegitimate son of David from Uriah’s wife. Sheik Seereen wrote that Surah Ahzab of the Quran means to say that Muhammad (S) was hiding the carnal love of Zainab (the wife of Zaid), in his heart. (Malfoozal Al-‘Asl Pg 219)

A wife of the Prophet (S) saw a male sparrow mounting the female sparrow. She challenged the Prophet. When the night set in, the Prophet mounted her in a most furious manner 90 times and said, “See! There is no deficiency here.” (Shamsuddin Akhlaqi, Manaqib-il-Arifain Pg 70-71). We wonder whether these are sacred writings or pornography!

These dogs and swines are our God. (Fusoosul Hukm, Mohiuddin Ibne Arabi)

Ba-Yazeed Bustami, supposedly the head of all saints, is quoted in his Malfoozat, the book of narratives:

 I am Glorious, the Ultimate, the Pure. My Glory is beyond description.
 My Kingdom is greater than the Kingdom of God.
 Allah is in my pocket.
 My flag flies higher than the flag of Muhammad.
 I dived into the sea of Knowledge while the Prophets watched by the shore.

Ali Hajweri, “Daata Ganj Bakhsh,” in his Kashfil Mahjoob, Pg 255-256 supports Ba-Yazeed Bustami's claim that he was God in human form.

Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri taught his disciples a different Kalema (Creed) “There is no god but Allah and Chishti is His Messenger.” (Khwaja Fareed-ud-Din Ganj Shakar, Fawaed-us-Saalikeen Pg 126-127)

Dear reader, if you recapture briefly what you have read so far, it is easy to see why it is important to get rid of these insults from our books, or at least try to neutralize them. Any preaching based on these absurdities leaves a strongly negative impact on our society. They promote human worship and other forms of shirk. They encourage immodesty and degrade women. The Muslim gets further away from the Quran and gets enslaved by superstition and nonsensical themes. It is regrettable that non-Muslims think that this trash represents Islam and then, of course, despise our Deen. In addition, many of our youth get disenchanted with this man-made Islam, and lose their faith.

Now, what message is Sheikh Afeef-ud-Din Talmisani trying to convey when he says: The Quran is loaded with Shirk (idolatry, polytheism). True Monotheism is that everything in the universe is God. (Malfoozat Talmisani Pg 205)

It was right for the Pharaoh to say, “I am God”. He, of course, was a part of the Essence of God. (Reference same)

Ibraheem Adham reached the Ka’bah in 14 years because he prayed two nawafil (units of physical prayer) at every step. But the Ka’bah was not there! A voice came from the heavens, "It has gone to visit Rabia Basri.” (Malfoozat Khwaja Uthman Harooni, Aneesul Arwah Pg 17). Doesn’t it make us think why the Ka’bah could not go to meet the Prophet (S) in Hudaibiyah or Madina? According to Sheikh Afifuddin Talmisani’s Malfoozat Pg 177, Rabia Basri was in romantic love, first with Hasan Basri and then with Ibrahim Adham.

In Cordova, I fell in love with Fatima. In Makkah I fell in love with the beautiful Ain-ush-Shams. The spiritual windows opened upon me hence. (Sheikh Mohiuddin Ibne Arabi, Fusoosul Hukm)

Ba-Yazid Bustami could take the soul of any person whenever he wanted. My uncle Abu Raza Muhammad, upon hearing this became very upset and said, “Ba-Yazid could not return the soul and restore life. I can take a soul and return it as I want.” Then my uncle took the soul of Rahmatullah Kafshdoze and brought him back to life. (Shah Waliullah, Anfasul Afrifain Pg 95)

Junaid Baghdadi was sitting when a dog crossed by. He merely glanced at the dog which then reached such glory that all dogs of the town followed him. Then he sat down and all dogs sat around him in meditation. (Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Imdadul Mushtaq)

 “There is no priesthood in Islam” is a very common but erroneous statement. There should be no priesthood in Islam, but in reality the Sufi and the Mullah have formed a very strong union. They are always ready to attack any semblance of reason from all quarters and they are always vigilant to label any voice of reason as infidelity. Many of them maintain that thinking and reasoning are forbidden in Islam.

The Messenger (S) came to Shah Waliullah (in the 18 century!) and said “Why do you worry, my son? Your children are the same as mine.” (Ashraf Ali Thanwi, Hikayaat-e-Awliya)

It is obligatory upon a mu’min (believer) that he quits eating and drinking. He must get weak to the point where he becomes unable to pray. (Sahl bin Abdullah Tastari, Malfoozat Arabi Pg 289)

Hazrat Sha’raani was the Sheikh of miracles. He resided in a meadow and used to visit the town riding a wolf. He walked on water. His urine was drinkable like pure milk. (Allama Tareshi’s excerpts, Misra’ Tasawwuf Pg 194). Did Tareshi try his milk?

Jalaluddin Rumi never prayed. When the time for prayers came he used to vanish. At last, it was discovered that he used to pray in the Ka’bah - 2000 miles away from Quniah, five times a day. (Khwaja Nizamuddin Awliya, Raahat-il-Quloob). Have you noticed the Sufis patting one another’s back?

My uncle saw me create and destroy the universe. (Shah Waliullah, Afasul Arifain Pg 210)

Once there was a Sheikh who used to grab a dog every day and put him on the prayer rug and said, “O dog, you are in the hands of God!” Those dogs then started walking on water and healed people by giving them Ta’weez (amulets). (Qutubuddin Bakhtiar Kaki, Malfoozat)

Here is a funny one: The dead body of a dervish was lying in a jungle laughing. I asked him, “You are dead. How can you laugh?” The dead body replied, “This is what happens in the love of Allah.” (Khwaja Ghareeb Nawaz, Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri, Malfoozat)

The Universe lies within Koh Qaaf (the Mount Caucasus). This mountain is 40 times bigger than the earth. A cow is holding it on its head. (Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti, Dalilul Arifain). Isn’t it pathetic that people of such miniscule minds are considered the saints of Islam? This mythology is obviously borrowed from Hinduism which holds that the entire earth is perched on one horn of a cow and when it shifts the load to the other horn, earthquakes occur.

The people of Multan refused to provide fire to Shah Shams Tabrez for roasting meat. He became enraged, brought the sun down and roasted the meat. As people became restless with heat, they came to the saint and asked his forgiveness and then he ordered the sun to go back. Since that day, the town became known for its hot summers. (Ali Quli Baghdadi, Karamaat Shah Tabrez Pg 233)

A great saint Hazrat Abdul Wahab went to visit the grave of Pir Syedi Ahmad Kabir. Abdul Wahab saw a beautiful bondwoman. Syedi Kabir called from his grave, “Hey, do you like her?” The owner of the bondwoman instantly dedicated her to the grave. The dead Pir spoke again, "O Abdul Wahab! Take her to the side room and satisfy your desire." (Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi, the greatest master of Islamic law, and Mujaddid, revivalist of Islam for the 19th century, Malfoozat part 3 Pg 28)

The urine and milk of camels provides relief from illness. (Shah Waliullah, Hujjatullah-il-Baaligha Pg 33). Did Waliullah try camel’s urine?

Ibraheem Adham was the governor of Balakh. While hunting, a deer turned back and scolded him. Since that day, Adham quit his throne and became a saint. (“Daata” Ganj Bakhsh, the Giver of Treasures, Kalamil Marghoob Pg 229)

When the companions went with the Prophet for Ghazwaat (battles), some of their wives had sex with other men. (Mullah Jalaluddin Rumi, Feeh-Ma-Feeh, Saleem Chishti, Islami Tasawwuf Pg 66). According to a forged Hadith, the Prophet (S) used to advise them not to go home before dawn, saying, “Would any of you like to see his wife in bed with another man?” What an insult to the noble men and women companions, quite contrary to the Quran!

Women are the source of all tribulation in the world, religious or otherwise. (Ali Hajweri “Daata Ganj Bakhsh” in Malfoozat Ahmad Raza Barelwi)

There was a 140 year old worshipper. He had an amputated foot. When asked, he said, “I was in I’tikaaf (seclusion for worship in a Masjid). I stepped one foot out. An angel warned me, and I immediately cut off my foot with a knife.” (Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri in Malfoozat Uthman Harooni)

Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri writes in the same book that the moon and the sun eclipse because of the sins of people! The Prophet (S) had explained that eclipses occur according to Divine Laws in Nature.

A man stole shrouds from graves for 40 years, but he went to the highest degree in Paradise. Why? Because he held on to the prayer rug (he prayed all the time). (Malfoozat Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri, by Khwaja Qutub Alam, Daleel Arifain)

Now, Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti Ajmeri decides to display his prowess in the English language: Where the Quran says, “Fawelullil musalleen” it means there is a “well” for Musalleen, the praying ones… (Reference same)

Watch for more wisdom from Chishti in the same book: The Hellfire is placed in the mouth of a snake deep in the seventh level of the earth. Otherwise the whole Universe would burn.

Khwaja Qutubuddin Bakhtiar Kaki knew half the Quran by heart when he was born. (Fawaaid-as-Salikeen, Khwaja Fareed-ud-Din “Ganj Shakar”, The Treasure of Sugar). What titanic forces prevented him from completing it?

Fareeduddin “Ganj Shakar” turned bushels of sugar into salt and again into sugar. (The Beloved of God, “Mehboob-e-Elahi”, Khwaja Nizamuddin Awliya, Raahatul Quloob)

Now watch arrogance at its height: The Prophet attended the funeral of Barakat Ahmed. And I led the prayer (the Prophet was his follower in prayer). (Ahmad Raza Khan Barelwi, Malfoozat). Sir Syed Ahmad Khan rightly points out that the supposed Islamic saints were frequently envious of the exalted Prophet.

Khwaja Moinuddin Chishti says, “What do you ask of Koh Qaaf, the Mount Caucasus? This mountain is resting on the head of a cow. The greatness and size of this cow equals 30,000 years of travel. Her head is in the East and her tail in the West. She has been standing since eternity praising the Lord.” Sheikh Uthman Harooni reports that after narrating this (insult to human intelligence), Sheikh Maudood Chishti and a companion sank into deep meditation. Both disappeared leaving their gowns behind. They had gone to take a stroll up the Mount Caucasus. (Malfoozat Khwaja Chishti Ajmeri by Khwaja Bakhtiar Kaki, Daleelul Arifain pPg 85-86). They should have disappeared from the planet.

By God! I know 99 out of 100 thoughts that come in the heart of an ant living in the lowest stratum of the earth. Allah knows all one hundred. (Shah Waliullah, Anfasul Arifain Pg 205)

“Maulana” Ashraf Ali Thanwi separated the way of Salaat between men and women in his book “Bahishti Zaiwar”. (Muhammad Sultan, Masjid Tauheed, Karachi)

Do not try to understand the Quran ever! Else, you will go astray. Fifteen ‘Uloom” (Sciences) are required to understand the Book. (“Maulana” Zakaria Kandhalwi, Fazaael A’maal Pg 2). The Quran claims that it is an easy book to understand, and it is (41:3). But the Mullahs and Sufis want the masses to remain oblivious to the Glorious Book.

 While this book was being written, a thoughtful reader suggested that highlighting the dark side in our sacred books brings a bad name to saints. However, it is of paramount importance to know what Islam is not. These infractions dishonor the exalted Prophet and his noble companions, promote Shirk, degrade human rights, sink Muslims in rituals and rob women of the high stature bestowed by God. The author has no intention of respecting those who dishonor Islam.

http://ourbeaconforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs60x/webbbs_config.pl/md/read/id/314123119179169

Offline HOPE

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2012, 07:03:13 AM »
Salaam Duster,

I was saddened to find my inspirational guide Rumi in your reply referred as a 'criminal of Islam'.  I have read Mr. Shabbir Ahmed's booklet and checked two of his claims regarding Rumi and corresponded with him regarding
Quote
There is none else worthy of worship. Come and worship me.
(MullahJalaluddin Rumi, Mathnawi 4:52)

Jalaluddin Rumi never prayed. When the time for prayers came he used to vanish. At last, it was discovered that he used to pray in the Ka’bah -2000 miles away from Quniah, five times a day. (Khwaja Nizamuddin Awlia,Raahat-il-Quloob).

When the companions went with the Prophet for Ghazwaat (battles), some of their wives had sex with other men.
(Mullah Jalaluddin Rumi, Feeh-Ma-Feeh, Saleem Chishti, Islami Tasawwuf pg 66).

his references are false.  He wrote to me saying that he has not read them but copied them from others who has referenced them in their books.

Thus he is a liar or a fabricator of stories, in my opinion.

There has always been critics and enemies of Sufism through the ages. The rise of Sufism against the misrepresentations of islamic teachings was about restoring the pure, original message brought by the Prophet Muhammad.  Genuine Sufis are essentially similar wherever they come from.  They focus on awareness, courtesy and service to humanity.  They differ in spiritual practices. They start with the Islamic Law, all the do's and don'ts established by the prophet to develop, evolve and enliven the inner awakened state.

Shams'ud-Din of Tabriz was Rumi's spiritual master who transformed him completely and not his 'gay' partner as fabricated.  His 6 volume Mathnavi is considered by the Sufis to be a spiritual commentary on the Quran in Farsi.

Every prophet has received from Him the guarantee:
Seek help with patience and prayer.
Come; ask of Him, not anyone except Him.
Seek water in the sea; do not seek it in the dry riverbed.

     What is unification?
     To burn one's self before the One.

I have remained for the sake of betterment
In the prison of this world.
What have I to do with the prison?
Whose money have I stolen?

 
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2012, 04:04:32 PM »
Peace / shalom Hope,

I am not an advocate of Dr. Shabbir either way. He made a quote and gave a reference. Did you look for yourself at the Mathnawi to see if any such quote was found in any form in the Mathnawi rather than using the same source - Dr. Shabbir for verification?

Do I take it then your only evidence against the reference is that Dr. Shabbir said he copied it from someone else???

Have you read STORY IV in the spiritual couplets of Rumi? If so, would love to know your interpretation of the whole passage starting ...

Once that famous saint Bayazid came to his disciples,
Saying, "Lo, I myself am God Almighty."
That man of spiritual gifts being visibly beside himself;
Said, "There is no God beside me; worship me!"
Next morning, when his ecstatic state had passed,
They said, "You said so and so, which was impious."


There are many translations of Rumi's works out there. Please see a source below which has nothing to do with Dr. Shabbir but a translation by E.H. Whinefield (1898).


http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/masnavi/msn04.htm


Offline HOPE

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2012, 07:35:56 PM »
Peace Duster,

Of course, I tried to verify his claims but the problem is the reference he gives being obscure.  There is no reference like 4:2 in Masnavi.  It has 6 volumes.  Check for yourself:

http://www.dar-al-masnavi.org/masnavi.html
 
Same with Fihi ma Fihi.  I have the book on my desk but don't know where to look.

Masnavi Books or Volumes.  There is no 2 in Volume 4.

" Books 1 and 2: They “are principally concerned with the nafs, the lower carnal self, and its self-deception and evil tendencies.”
Books 3 and 4: These books share the principal themes of Reason and Knowledge. These two themes are personified by Rumi in the Biblical and Quranic figure of the Prophet Moses.”
Books 5 and 6: These last two books are joined by the universal ideal that man must deny his physical earthly existence to understand God’s existence. " SikhWiki

I found the translation of the volumes in Farsi and Urdu on line.  If you know those languages you can check it out yourself.

As far as Iqbal is concerned, I thought he was also inspired by Rumi's work and considered him to be his spiritual leader.

http://sologak1.blogspot.com/2009/11/rumi-and-iqbal.html

You need to have the similar perspective of reality to appreciate his couplets:

"A true Lover doesn't follow any one religion, be sure of that. Since in the religion of Love, there is no irreverence or faith. When in Love, body, mind, heart and soul don't even exist. Become this, fall in Love, and you will not be separated again."

"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2012, 10:17:05 PM »

Peace / shalom Hope,

Did you check the link that I gave you? See the link below and do a copy / find on that link for some of the text I have shared below. You will find it there.

I actually copy / pasted it from the link below.



Have you read STORY IV in the spiritual couplets of Rumi? If so, would love to know your interpretation of the whole passage starting ...

Once that famous saint Bayazid came to his disciples,
Saying, "Lo, I myself am God Almighty."
That man of spiritual gifts being visibly beside himself;
Said, "There is no God beside me; worship me!"
Next morning, when his ecstatic state had passed,
They said, "You said so and so, which was impious."


There are many translations of Rumi's works out there. Please see a source below which has nothing to do with Dr. Shabbir but a translation by E.H. Whinefield (1898).

http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/masnavi/msn04.htm

Offline HOPE

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2012, 10:32:33 PM »
Peace Duster,

I read the story "The Building of the "Most Remote Temple" at Jerusalem" the story II in Book IV.  I did not find any statement like "There is none else worthy of worship. Come and worship me" regarding himself.  Talks about Solomon and the throne of Bilqis.  The only thing I'm uncomfortable with is the use of the hadith where the Prophet allegedly claims to have the world was created  for him!

Seemingly the bough is the cause of the fruit, 5
But really the bough exists because of the fruit.
Were he not impelled by desire of fruit,
The gardener would never have planted the tree.
Therefore in reality the tree is born from the fruit,
Though seemingly the fruit is born from the tree.
For this cause Mustafa said, "Adam and all prophets
Are my followers and gather under my standard.
Though to outward view I am a son of Adam,
In reality I am his first forefather,
Because the angels worshipped him for my sake,
And 'twas in my footsteps that he ascended to heaven.
Hence in reality our first parent was my offspring,
As in reality the tree is born of its own fruit."

Thanks for the link of sacred-texts.
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline HOPE

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2012, 11:30:11 PM »
Salaam all,


What is first in thought is last in act.

Thought is the special attribute of the Eternal.

This product goes forth from heaven very swiftly,

And comes to us like a caravan. 6


'Tis not a long road that this caravan travels;

Can the desert stop the deliverer?

The heart travels to the Ka'ba every moment,

And by divine grace the body acquires the same power.


Distance and nearness affect only the body,

What do they matter in the place where God is?

When God changes the body,
It regards not  miles.

Even on earth there is hope of approaching God.
Press on like a lover, and cease vain words, O son!

The allusion is to the hadith "If it had not been for thee, the world had not been created."  Thus Muhammad is the final cause of creation;
 The caravan is referring to the prophets culminating in Muhammad, the fruit of the tree.

" Muhammad as the Logos is the channel by which divine grace is conveyed to man. The "change of the body" is an allusion to the ascension of Muhammad (Mi raj). "

The following article is good in explaining the Kamil insan.  Once we understand the imagery, you 'll find the concept not so far-fetched.


http://www.israinternational.com/the-perfect-man.html
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2012, 06:22:16 PM »
Peace Duster,

I read the story "The Building of the "Most Remote Temple" at Jerusalem" the story II in Book IV.  I did not find any statement like "There is none else worthy of worship. Come and worship me" regarding himself.  Talks about Solomon and the throne of Bilqis.  The only thing I'm uncomfortable with is the use of the hadith where the Prophet allegedly claims to have the world was created  for him!

Peace / Shalom Hope

I referred you to STORY IV in Book IV from the link given below and NOT  STORY II in BOOK IV. I even gave you a link.  I am therefore not surprised you didn't find it. Please check again. I even cut and paste it for you below.


http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/masnavi/msn04.htm


I find the whole story strange!


STORY IV.

Bayazid and his impious sayings when beside himself.
The holy saint Bayazid before his death predicted the birth of the saint Abul-Hasan Khirqani, and specified all the peculiar qualities which would be seen in him. And after his death it came to pass as he had predicted, and Abul-Hasan, hearing what Bayazid had said, used to frequent his tomb. One day he visited the tomb as usual, and found it covered with snow, and a voice was heard saying, "The world is fleeting as snow. I am calling thee! Follow me and forsake the world!"
How Bayazid cried out, when beside himself, "Glory be to me!" and how his disciples were scandalized at this saying, and how Bayazid answered them.

Once that famous saint Bayazid came to his disciples,
Saying, "Lo, I myself am God Almighty."
That man of spiritual gifts being visibly beside himself;
Said, "There is no God beside me; worship me!"
Next morning, when his ecstatic state had passed,
They said, "You said so and so, which was impious."
He answered, "If I do so again,
Straightway slay me with your knives!
God is independent of me; I am in the body.
If I say that again you must kill me!"
When that holy person had given this injunction,
Each of his disciples made ready his knife.
Again that overflowing cup became beside himself,
And his recent injunctions passed from his mind.
Alienation came upon him, reason went astray,
The dawn shone forth and his lamp paled at its light.
Reason is like an officer when the king appears;
The officer then loses his power and hides himself.
Reason is God's shadow; God is the sun.
What power has the shadow before the sun?
When a man is possessed by an evil spirit
The qualities of humanity are lost in him.
Whatever he says is really said by that spirit,
Though it seems to proceed from the man's mouth.
When the spirit has this rule and dominance over him,
The agent is the property of the spirit, and not himself;
His self is departed, and he has become the spirit.
The Turk without instruction speaks Arabic; 1
When he returns to himself he knows not a word of it.
Seeing God is lord of spirits and of man,
How can He be inferior in power to a spirit?
When the eagle of alienation from self took wing,
Bayazid began to utter similar speeches;
The torrent of madness bore away his reason,
And he spoke more impiously than before.
"Within my vesture is naught but God,
Whether you seek Him on earth or in heaven."
His disciples all became mad with horror,
And struck with their knives at his holy body.
Each one, like the assassins of Kardkoh, 2
Without fear aimed at the body of his chief.
Each who aimed at the body of the Shaikh,
His stroke was reversed and wounded the striker.
No stroke took effect on that man of spiritual gifts,
But the disciples were wounded and drowned in blood.
Each who had aimed a blow at his neck,
Saw his own throat cut, and gave up the ghost;
He who had struck at his breast
Had cleft his own breast and killed himself.
They who knew better that lord of felicity,
Who had not courage enough to strike a deadly blow,
Their half-knowledge held their hands back;
They saved their lives but slightly wounded themselves.
On the morrow those disciples, diminished in number,
Raised lamentations in their houses.
They went to Bayazid, thousands of men and women,
Saying, "The two worlds are hidden in thy vesture;
If this body of thine were that of a man,
It would have perished of sword-wounds, like a man's."
The man in his senses fought with him 'beside himself,
And thrust the thorn into his own eyes."
Ah! you who smite with your sword him beside himself,
You smite yourself therewith; Beware!
For he that is beside himself is annihilated and safe;
Yea, he dwells in security forever.
His form is vanished, he is a mere mirror;
Nothing is seen in him but the reflection of another.
If you spit at it, you spit at your own face,
And if you hit that mirror, you hit yourself;
And if you see an ugly face in it, 'tis your own,
And if you see an 'Isa there, you are its mother Mary.
He is neither this nor that he is void of form;
'Tis your own form which is reflected back to you.
But when the discourse reaches this point, lip is closed;
When pen reaches this point, it is split in twain.
Close then your lips, though eloquence be possible.
Keep silence; God knows the right way!
This is followed by an anecdote of the Prophet appointing an Hudhaili youth to be captain of a band of warriors amongst whom were many older and more experienced soldiers, and of the objections made to this appointment, and of the Prophet's answer to the objectors.
Why the Prophet promoted the youth to command his seniors.
The Prophet said, "O ye who regard only the outside,
Regard him not as a youth void of talents.
Many are they whose beards are black yet are old,
Many too have white beards and hearts like pitch.
I have made trial of his wisdom often and often,
And that youth has shown himself old in his actions.
Age consists in maturity of wisdom, O son,
Not, in whiteness of the beard and hair.
How can any one be older than Iblis?
Yet, if he has no wisdom, he is naught.
Suppose him an infant, if he has 'Isa's soul,
He is pure from pride and from carnal lust.
That whiteness of the hair is a sign of maturity
Only to purblind eyes whose vision is limited.
Since that shortsighted one judges by outward signs,
He seeks the right course by outward tokens.
For his sake I said that if ye desire counsel
Ye ought to make choice of an old man.
He who has emerged from the veil of blind belief
Beholds by the light of God all things that exist.
His pure light, without signs or tokens,
Cleaves for him the rind and brings him to the kernel.
To the regarder of externals, genuine and base coin are alike.
How can he know what is inside the basket?
Many are the gold coins made black with smoke,
So that they elude the clutches of greedy thieves;
Many are the copper coins gilded with gold,
And sold as gold to men of slender wits.
We who regard the inside of the world,
We look at the heart and disregard the outside.
The judges who confine their view to externals
And base their decisions on outward appearances,
As they testify and make outward show of faith, 3
Are straightway dubbed faithful by men of externals.
Therefore these heretics, who regard only externals,
Have secretly shed the blood of many true believers.
Strive then to be old in wisdom and in faith,
That, like Universal Reason, you may see within." 4
*NOTES:
1. Alluding to the story of the Kurd, Syad Abul-Wafa, Book i Story xiv. note.
2. A hill in Mazandaran.
3. "And some there are who say, 'We believe in God and in the last day,' yet they are not believers" (Koran ii. 7).
4. Universal Reason, here applied to Muhammad. "The first thing which God created was ('aql) Reason or Intelligence," i.e., the Logos.


Offline HOPE

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2012, 08:06:07 PM »
Salaam Duster,

There is none else worthy of worship. Come and worship me.
(MullahJalaluddin Rumi, Mathnawi 4:52)


This was the reference given to me by you  and also by Dr. Shabbir that I objected as false reference.  He admitted to me by email that he has not read it himself but relied on others reporting.

Now you have located the reference, I thank you.  I have to study it before I can give an intelligent reply.  But at first glance, it does not give me the impression that Rumi is claiming to be God to be worshipped whereas that is the impression I get from reading  Shabbir's booklet called 'Criminals of Islam'. 

 
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline HOPE

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2012, 10:47:16 PM »
Salaam Duster,

The last verses of the 4th story of the 4th volume explain the moral of the story:

To the regarder of externals, genuine and base coin are alike.
How can he know what is inside the basket?
Many are the gold coins made black with smoke,
So that they elude the clutches of greedy thieves;
Many are the copper coins gilded with gold,
And sold as gold to men of slender wits.
 
We who regard the inside of the world,
We look at the heart and disregard the outside.
The judges who confine their view to externals
And base their decisions on outward appearances,
As they testify and make outward show of faith, 3
Are straightway dubbed faithful by men of externals.

Therefore these heretics, who regard only externals,
Have secretly shed the blood of many true believers.
Strive then to be old in wisdom and in faith,
That, like Universal Reason, you may see within."

He is comparing those with sealed hearts who are only concerned with the form and appearances with the ones who are focused on the heart.
He is talking about Bayazid Bastami who was one of the first sufis to speak of the annihilation of the self in God (fana fi'allah) and subsistence through God (baqa fi'Allah)  In Bayazidian Sufism, one has to get rid of the pseudo-personality that one has created for oneself. We all want to be accepted and respected by others. Most of the time we are led by society and our own cultural norms to create a false sense of ourselves.    Ego is the center of the false mind.  When ego is removed only the spirit of God exists in the body.  In ecstasy some have uttered paradoxical sayings for which they have been killed by those who only see the 'external'.  Bayazid himself was labeled as the 'intoxicated sufi'.  Ego death means nafs and identity is gone only the divine remains when the ruh is absorbed in the heart.  Most sufis believe it is inappropriate to share their vision with the masses.

I personally do not want to eliminate the dichotomy between me and God but want to suppress the ego as low as I can.   We all experience Reality differently.


RUMI explained the fanna of Hallaj like this;

Pharaoh said 'I am the Truth,' and was laid low. Mansur Hallaj said 'I am the Truth,' and escaped free.
Pharaoh's 'I' was followed by the curse of God. Mansur's 'I' was followed by the mercies of God.
Because Pharaoh was a stone, Mansur a ruby,
Pharaoh an enemy of light, Mansur a friend.
Mansur's 'I am He,' was a deep mystic saying,
Expressing union with the light, not mere incarnation.

According to Rumi, his statement Ana al-Haqq as meaning, "God has emptied me of everything but Himself." According to him, Mansur never denied God's Oneness and was a strict monotheist.

Regarding Bastami:
His self is departed, and he has become the spirit.

59:19 "Do not be like those who forgot God, so that He caused them to forget their own souls"


"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2012, 12:19:19 AM »
RUMI explained the fanna of Hallaj like this;

Pharaoh said 'I am the Truth,' and was laid low. Mansur Hallaj said 'I am the Truth,' and escaped free.
Pharaoh's 'I' was followed by the curse of God. Mansur's 'I' was followed by the mercies of God.
Because Pharaoh was a stone, Mansur a ruby,
Pharaoh an enemy of light, Mansur a friend.
Mansur's 'I am He,' was a deep mystic saying,
Expressing union with the light, not mere incarnation.

According to Rumi, his statement Ana al-Haqq as meaning, "God has emptied me of everything but Himself." According to him, Mansur never denied God's Oneness and was a strict monotheist.

Regarding Bastami:
His self is departed, and he has become the spirit.

Shalom / Peace Hope,

Honestly and I mean no disrespect to you. I can't believe what you are suggesting here. Where does Rumi get all these stories from? And who cares about Rumi's explanation of the term 'ana al-Haqq'? Doesn't it simply mean 'I am the Truth'? and how does he really know that Mansur's 'I' was followed by the mercies of God where it really matters like the Hereafter? Did He ask God??? (Tauba Nauzubillah / Ma'azAllah)

Honestly Hope, I am really surprised at your stance with these stories.

Anyway each to their own. I wanted to show that the quote existed and to other brothers and sisters on this forum. I am sure people will make their own minds about what is written in these books.





Offline HOPE

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2012, 01:03:37 AM »
Peace Duster,

Brother, my post was about reflections on the beautiful names of the God in the Quran.  We ended up discussing the sufism.

Quote
Have you read STORY IV in the spiritual couplets of Rumi? If so, would love to know your interpretation of the whole passage starting ..

I gave my interpretation because you asked for it.
Quote
Did He ask God??? (Tauba Nauzubillah / Ma'azAllah)
Maybe he did.  People talk to God and they get inspirations from Him, Tasbih,  If you view Him as Tanzih, then it is unthinkable since you used the term Ma'azAllah.

I agree with you this forum is not the place to discuss it.

Peace, 
"Hope is like a bird that senses the dawn and carefully starts to sing while it is still dark"

Offline Duster

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Re: Knowing God
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2012, 02:05:31 AM »
Peace  :)