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Offline Orange

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Islamic Secondary Sources
« on: October 20, 2012, 11:17:27 AM »
Dear Brother Joseph, Peace be on you,

I am writing this after looking at how the secondary Islamic sources are mocked by some so called Quranist who ridicule the quotes in a way that crave hatred against the authors.

Much researched has been done whether the writings that are related to authors do actually exist or it was the student’s cartel who actually published the versions that they see fit to their own understandings.

People who have passed away carry no burden on us neither would we be responsible for their actions.

The following are the 43 main stream books or collection usually quoted during discussions locally:

        Sect, Title, Collection name, English Name, Author, Author's Country

1.   Sunni, , Al-Mustadrak alaa al-Sahihain , , Hakim al-Nishaburi, Iraq
2.   Sunni, , Bulugh al-Maram , Attainment of the Objective According to Evidences of the Ordinances, Al-Haafidh Shihabuddin Abu'l-Fadl Ahmad ibn Ali ibn Muhammad, better known as Ibn Hajar due to the fame of his forefathers, al-Asqalani due to his family origin, Egypt
3.   Sunni, , Kanz al-Ummal , Treasure of the Doers of Good Deeds, Ala al-Din Ali ibn Abd-al-Malik Husam al-Din al-Muttaqi al-Hindi (The exalter of faith, Ali son of servant of AllahThe King, from India) , India
4.   Sunni, , Majma' al-Zawa'id wa Manba' al-Fawa'id , , Nur al-Din `Ali ibn Abi Bakr ibn Sulayman, Abu al-Hasan al-Haythami , Egypt
5.   Sunni, , Masabih al-Sunnah, , Abu Muhammad al-Husayn ibn Mas'ud ibn Mubammad al-Farra' al-Baghawi, Afghanistan
6.   Sunni, , Mawdu'at al-Kubra , A Great Collection of Fabricated Traditions,  Abul-Faraj Ibn Al-Jawzi, Iraq
7.   Sunni, , Mishkat al-Masabih , A Niche for Lamps, Muḥammad ibn ʻAbd Allāh Khatib Al-Tabrizi, Unknown
8.   Sunni, , Muntakhab Ahadith, , Muhammad Yusuf Kandhlawi also known as Hadhratji , India
9.   Sunni, , Musnad Ahmad ibn Hanbal, , Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Hanbal Abu `Abd Allah al-Shaybani, Iraq
10.   Sunni, , Muwatta Imam Malik, , Mālik ibn Anas ibn Mālik ibn Abī 'Āmir al-Asbahī , Saudia Arabia
11.   Sunni, , Muwatta Imam Muhammad, , Muhammad al-Shaybani, Iraq
12.   Sunni, , Riyadh as-Saaliheen , The Gardens of the Righteous, Abu Zakaria Mohiuddin Yahya Ibn Sharaf al-Nawawi, Syria
13.   Sunni, Al-Kutub Al-Sittah (The Six Books), Sahih al-Bukhari, The Abridged Collection of Authentic Hadith with Connected Chains regarding Matters Pertaining to the Prophet, Muhammad ibn Ismail al-Bukhari, Uzbekistan
14.   Sunni, , Sahih Ibn Hibbaan , , Abu Hatim Muhammad ibn Hibban ibn Ahmad al-Tamimi al-Busti, Iran
15.   Sunni, , Sahih Ibn Khuzaymah , , Abu Abdillah Muhammad ibn Ishaq ibn Khuzaymah, Iran
16.   Sunni, Al-Kutub Al-Sittah (The Six Books), Sahih Muslim, , Abul Husayn Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj ibn Muslim ibn Warat al-Qushayri al-Nisaburi, Iran
17.   Sunni, , Shamaail Tirmidhi , , Abū ‛Īsá Muḥammad ibn ‛Īsá ibn Sawrah ibn Mūsá ibn al Ḍaḥḥāk al-Sulamī al-Sulamī al-Tirmidhī, Turkmenistan
18.   Sunni, Al-Kutub Al-Sittah (The Six Books), Sunan Abu Dawood, , Abu Dawud Sulaymān ibn al-Ashʿath al-Azdi as-Sijistani , Iran
19.   Sunni, , Sunan al-Darimi, , Abu Muhammad Abdullah Bin Abdur Rahman Bin Fadhl Bin Bahraan Bin Abdus Samad At Tamimi Ad Darimi As Samarqandi, Uzbekistan
20.   Sunni, Al-Kutub Al-Sittah (The Six Books), Sunan al-Tirmidhi, , Abū ‛Īsá Muḥammad ibn ‛Īsá ibn Sawrah ibn Mūsá ibn al Ḍaḥḥāk al-Sulamī al-Sulamī al-Tirmidhī, Turkmenistan
21.   Sunni, Al-Kutub Al-Sittah (The Six Books), Sunan an-Nasa'i al-Sughra, , Aḥmad ibn Shu`ayb ibn Alī ibn Sīnān Abū `Abd ar-Raḥmān al-Nasā'ī, Turkmenistan
22.   Sunni, Al-Kutub Al-Sittah (The Six Books), Sunan ibn Majah, , Abū ʻAbdillāh Muḥammad ibn Yazīd Ibn Mājah al-Rabʻī al-Qazwīnī, Iran
23.   Sunni, , Talkhis al-Mustadrak , , Muhammad ibn Ahmad ibn `Uthman ibn Qaymaz ibn `Abd Allah, Shams al-Din Abu `Abd Allah al-Turkmani al-Diyarbakri al-Fariqi al-Dimashqi al-Dhahabi al-Shafi`i, Syria


1.   Shia, , Ain Al-Hayat, , Muhammad Baqir Majlisi, Iran
2.   Shia, Al-Kutub Al-Arb'ah (The Four Books), Al-Istibsar, , Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Hassan Tusi, Iran
3.   Shia, , Al-Shifa as-Sajjadiyya ver 1, Psalms of the Household of Muhammad-Sahifa-e-Kamila-Sister of the Qur'an-Gospel of the Folk of the House, Shams al-Din Muhammad ibn Makki, Syria
4.   Shia, , Al-Shifa as-Sajjadiyya ver 2, Psalms of the Household of Muhammad-Sahifa-e-Kamila-Sister of the Qur'an-Gospel of the Folk of the House, Muhammad ibn al-Hasan al-Hurr al-'Amili , Iraq
5.   Shia, , Al-Shifa as-Sajjadiyya ver 3, Psalms of the Household of Muhammad-Sahifa-e-Kamila-Sister of the Qur'an-Gospel of the Folk of the House, Al-'ulama' Mirza 'Abd Allah ibn Mirza `Isa Tabrizi, Unknown
6.   Shia, , Al-Shifa as-Sajjadiyya ver 4, Psalms of the Household of Muhammad-Sahifa-e-Kamila-Sister of the Qur'an-Gospel of the Folk of the House, S.H.M Jafri, Iran
7.   Shia, , Al-Shifa as-Sajjadiyya ver 5, Psalms of the Household of Muhammad-Sahifa-e-Kamila-Sister of the Qur'an-Gospel of the Folk of the House, Muhsin al-Amin, Lebanon
8.   Shia, , Bihar Al Anwar, Oceans of Lights, Muhammad Baqir Majlisi, Iran
9.   Shia, , Book of Sulaym ibn Qays, , Sulaym ibn Qays , Iraq
10.   Shia, , Daim al-Islam, , Abu Hanifa al-Nu‘man ibn Muhammad ibn Mansur ibn Ahmad ibn Hayyun al-Tamimi, Tunisia
11.   Shia, , Haqq al-Yaqeen, Reality of Certainty, Muhammad Baqir Majlisi, Iran
12.   Shia, Al-Kutub Al-Arb'ah (The Four Books), Kitab al Kafi, What is Sufficient in the Knowledge of the Faith, Muhammad Ya‘qūb Kulaynī, Iran
13.   Shia, , Mafatih al-Jinan, , Shaikh Abbass Qumi, Iran
14.   Shia, Al-Kutub Al-Arb'ah (The Four Books), Man la yahdurul al-Fiqh, For him not in the Presence of a Jurisprudent, Al-Shaykh al-Saduq, Iran
15.   Shia, , Mu'tazila collections, , Izz al-Din ibn Hibatullah ibn Abi l-Hadid, Iraq
16.   Shia, , Nahj Al Balagha, Peak of Eloquence, Abul-Hasan Muhammad ibn Al-Husayn Al-Musawi, Iraq
17.   Shia, , Qalam-e-Mowla, , , Unknown
18.   Shia, , Sharh Usul al-Kafi , , Mohammad Salih al-Mazandarani, Unknown
19.   Shia, Al-Kutub Al-Arb'ah (The Four Books), Tahdhib al Ahkaam, The Refinement of the Laws (as Discussed) in Terms of the Explanation of the Sufficiency, Abu Jafar Muhammad Ibn Hassan Tusi, Iran
20.   Shia, , Wasael ush Shia, , Al-Hurr al-Aamili, Lebanon


My questions are:

1) Is there any website or in the making whereby a user can see contradiction from all the books mainly referred by Muslims in drawing religious matters?

2) Why is much research done only on Sunni collections? Is it that they are easily accessible?

3)  Knowingly or unknowingly there are main streams universities in the world who have subjected this religion. Why they are still not clear (clear as in black and white) that Quran is the sole religious guidance and we should omit all sayings of humans and stick to sayings of God?

4) Is it as if they (the contemporary scholars) have made small kingdoms within state where they can’t just now knowingly change things and they have to stick with Lots of Quran and some of people’s saying?

5) Why do we still see people who claim Quran to be sole religious guidance divided in basic meanings or interpretations of Quran?

Best regards

Offline Orange

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Re: Islamic Secondary Sources
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2012, 11:19:38 AM »
I have absolutely no doubt that "Quran" is the sole religious guidance.

 

Offline Sardar Miyan

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Re: Islamic Secondary Sources
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 02:59:32 AM »
the Secondary Sources  are created by people long after the demise of our Prophet based upon hearsay therefore authenticity is vouch safed.Quran does not need any other source to explain.As a matter of fact the Prophet asked the people not write any thing except Quran.The Khulfa who wrote Ahadiths had got them burnt or destroyed before their deat
May entire creation be filled with Peace & Joy & Love & Light

Offline Duster

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Re: Islamic Secondary Sources
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2012, 12:34:08 AM »
peace/ shalom

I have always wondered what is the earliest claimed hadithes we have. I have heard the claims that some of Abu Hurairahs students left some Hadithes too in the first century of Islam which we possesss and proof that writings were recorded early. Not sure how true this is.

Offline Wakas

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Re: Islamic Secondary Sources
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2012, 06:35:17 PM »
salaam Duster, all,

Quote
There are almost no surviving sources of suhuf (plural sahifa) however the earliest ones are as follows:
-   The Sahifa Of Hammam bin Munabbih who was a student of Abu Huraira
-   and The Musannaf of `Abd al-Razzaq al-San`ani

(Islamic Awarness, M, Saifullah & I, Daniel (2000). 

You can read a little about this in Jonathan Brown's excellent book:
http://www.amazon.com/Hadith-Muhammads-Legacy-Medieval-Foundations/dp/1851686630

Some of his work is here: http://ahadithstudies.wordpress.com/

Offline Joseph Islam

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Re: Islamic Secondary Sources
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2012, 11:23:08 PM »
Dear Wakas / all,

Peace

I do not agree with some of the implications insinuated by the position taken by Islamic Awareness on the issue of the Sahifah of Hammam ibn Munabbih.

Please see my assessment below.

THE SAHIFAH OF HAMMAM IBN MUNABBIH
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/sahifah%20FM3.htm



Dear Orange,

Peace. 

In response to a couple of your questions:


1) Is there any website or in the making whereby a user can see contradiction from all the books mainly referred by Muslims in drawing religious matters?

There is a tome of scholarship available which probes Islamic secondary sources both in the ambit of western academia and Muslim scholarship from antiquity. Much of it is extremely critical. However, I am not aware of a dedicated site of what I think you are enquiring about. However, I do believe that there is a need. It is an area that I anticipate to make a very small, humble contribution in the future, if God wills. Please pray for me.

2) Why is much research done only on Sunni collections? Is it that they are easily accessible?

The demarcation of Sunni and Shia sectarian lines are not so easily discernible in the earliest classical sources. Scholars normally ascertain apparent 'allegiances' from what is usually written in the earliest sources. For example, it has often been discussed whether the earliest major biographer of the Prophet, Ibn Ishaq had 'Shia' leans as did Al-Waqidi given some of the contents of their writings. However, some scholars would arguably be keen to tackle the sources which are usually aligned to the major theological group of a particular faith. This is not uncommon. [1] & [2]



[1] IBN ISHAQ'S SIRA OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (pbuh)
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/ibn%20ishaq%20FM3.htm
[2] HISTORICAL SOURCES
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/historical%20sources%20FM3.htm



I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act' 
George Orwell

Offline Wakas

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Re: Islamic Secondary Sources
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2012, 06:23:26 PM »
Dear Joseph, w/salaam,

Dear Wakas / all,

Peace

I do not agree with some of the implications insinuated by the position taken by Islamic Awareness on the issue of the Sahifah of Hammam ibn Munabbih.

Please see my assessment below.

THE SAHIFAH OF HAMMAM IBN MUNABBIH
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/sahifah%20FM3.htm



Quote
Therefore, the manuscripts at both Berlin and Damascus are not the original manuscripts of Hammam ibn Munabbih from the 1st century of Islam that they are widely understood to be.

I did not realise that! The times I have read this being mentioned, it is put across as if they are the actual extant manuscripts. That is misleading. I will email jonathan brown about that also.

Thanks for the information.