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Messages - Wakas

#16
See:
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=34

There is nothing to stop anyone adopting such a modification.

However the verses seem to be suggesting a specific targeting of believing women was occurring, when believers are not in the majority in this location. The hypocrites, those with disease in their hearts, and those who spread lies were likely targeting believing women then making out they did not know they were from such a group, so these verses discuss a way to be recognised as such, thus giving an ultimatum to expose the hypocrites.


#17
Sorry, didn't see your post. I dont have resources but whatever claims are made i.e. 21 meanings of wa, then it should be backed up by examples.

Here are two more examples of clarifying, or making specific from a general, use of wa, 33:7, 2:98
#18
peace m114,
I only saw your questions just now. You bring up some interesting points. I will need to ponder over this and study it more to see how it comes together.
#19
peace Hajira,

Please see:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html
(it discusses divorce in Quran in detail)

QuoteCan women initiate divorce according to Quran?

Quotes from my posts on free-minds:

QuoteTo my knowledge, the husband is the one who initiates divorce/talaq, however the wife can release herself from the marriage but it is not called talaq explicitly in Quran. In practice the end result is the same. It could be considered nomenclature for the time.

QuoteIf a woman wanted divorce she can ask her husband to divorce her, but if the husband does not divorce her, she can inform the authority herself and request a release from marriage. Whilst different words are used the procedure is actually the same for both men/women, as the husband would also have to notify the authority if he wished to divorce.
#20
General Discussions / Re: Ishmael prophet and messenger
December 18, 2023, 05:16:17 PM
For these kinds of questions you may find a word search or topical index resource helpful, e.g.

From:
https://www.studyquran.org/

https://www.studyquran.org/TopicsIndex.htm
https://www.studyquran.org/WordSearch.htm

You can then read every occurrence of "Ishmael" for example. In this case, quote:

Ishmael, 2:136, 2:140, 3:84, 4:163, 6:86, 14:39, 21:85, 37:102-109, 38:48
and Hagar, 2:158


Note: since the references are taken from a Traditional Islam website there may be some wording issues, but the actual verse references should be accurate.
#21
Quote from: F.M.S.Abdal on September 06, 2023, 11:39:04 AM
Salamun alaykum,

https://youtube.com/shorts/iVYDLDjlMRs?si=PSC5nsA3KK1gAMiS

So, Rumzi states it can be better clarified and gives a very logical example. So from the Quranic perspective, why does the Qur'an need any further explanation or complementary materials that gives more detailed instructions or detailed history?

peace,

The Quran states it is clear, detailed, gives every example etc:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran_clear_complete_detailed_explained.htm

That means with regard to its purpose: salvation. It contains what is binding upon us for those who wish to follow it etc. That does not mean we cannot look to external sources as Quran asks us many times to look at the world around us, use our AQL, ponder over XYZ etc so this means we can use sources such as history, traditions etc BUT that does not mean they are authoritative/binding. Only The Quran is authoritative.

And as for rebuttals to the other link there is loads of info online, e.g. articles on this site, threads on this forum and free-minds and youtube videos etc.

Some examples:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Rethinking_Tradition_Modern_Islamic_Thought.htm
http://islam-and-muslims.com/Kashif-Ahmed-Shehzada-The-Authority-of-Al-Quran.pdf
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/Quran_True_Sunnah_of_Messenger_Naveed.htm
#23
General Discussions / Re: Searching for Truth
June 14, 2023, 12:07:41 AM
Quote from: Wakas on June 13, 2023, 11:44:26 PM
How does that in any way highlight errors with or disprove The Quran?

I'm sorry but your credibility is fading.

Maybe you weren't referring to flaws in Quran, that's just how your post came across. It seems you are maybe saying Islam is from the Magi religion. IF that is what you're implying then your post above which is apparently their strongest argument doesn't prove much, if anything. Where is their references? Where is their smoking gun?

In any case you are not being clear. Rather than cutting and pasting why not also elaborate what point they are apparently making.
#24
General Discussions / Re: Searching for Truth
June 13, 2023, 11:44:26 PM
How does that in any way highlight errors with or disprove The Quran?

I'm sorry but your credibility is fading.
#25
General Discussions / Re: Searching for Truth
June 12, 2023, 03:22:26 PM
Let's make it even easier, just articulate one:

What is the strongest argument of theirs you found?
#26
General Discussions / Re: Searching for Truth
June 11, 2023, 08:00:41 PM
How do we know you are not spamming the channel 'Persian Magi'?

Why not list some of their strongest arguments with actual detail so that they can be addressed here?
#27
General Discussions / Re: Salaam!
June 07, 2023, 03:30:41 PM
It's a good idea but your website is a little clunky/basic. I did the prophet miracle quiz and the physical splitting of the moon is a Traditional story not necessarily Quran based (but an argument could be made for it).

I came up with similar idea while ago. Tens of thousands have taken the quiz so far: www.AreYouMuslim.com
#28
Women / Re: Divorce
June 02, 2023, 01:53:33 AM
Quote1) for Khula or ransoming out of the marriage does wife need the husbands agreement? If she does then what happens when the husband forces her to stay when she doesn't want to?

Using what I wrote above what is your response to this? i.e. what do you think the answer(s) could be.


Thanks.

#29
Women / Re: Divorce
June 01, 2023, 02:25:41 PM
Are you referring to Traditional Islam or Quranic Islam?

I cannot help with the former, but for the latter please see my above post. Answers therein.

If, after reading the above, you still have questions then please state your question, one at a time, along with what you understand from the above, then I can better respond.
#30
Women / Re: Divorce
May 30, 2023, 10:53:17 PM
peace,

You may find the following helpful:

Quote
....... it does give a guideline and mentions situations and conditions that should be considered before marriage:

Determining mutual attraction/compatibility [2:221, 2:235, 30:21, 33:52]
Ascertaining whether the potential partner is of similar beliefs/faith [2:221, 60:10]
Discussion of and agreeing to the level of dower and other terms (if any) [4:4, 4:24]
Understanding and mutual acceptance of marriage as a solemn/strong oath/contract [4:21, 2:232, 2:237, 24:33]
If male, capable of providing for the family/household [2:228, 2:233, 4:34, 65:6]
To have physically matured / post-puberty [4:6, 24:31, 24:58-59]
To have the marriage contract/oaths witnessed [2:235, 2:237, 2:282, 65:2]
If the marriage is unsuccessful, one should also be capable of undertaking divorce proceedings, e.g. separation period, arbitration, discussion of settlement etc [2:226-232, 2:241, 4:35, 4:128-130, 33:49, 65:1-6].

Quote
To understand the sequence of events, we must fully understand the divorce procedure according to The Quran:

'cooling-off' period for those who swear away from their wives sexually, limited to 4 months [2:226]*
after this 4 month 'cooling-off' period, the options are: revert to normal relations or divorce/talaq [2:227]
post-divorce interim/waiting period is 3 menstruation periods or 3 months, if pregnant it is until they deliver, if widowed it is 4 months and 10 days [2:228, 2:234, 65:4]
if no sex has taken place after marriage, then no interim period is required after divorce/talaq [33:49]. Compensation may be due however if dower was agreed upon [2:237]
during post-divorce interim period, wife remains in the same house, and is compensated by way of maintenance during this period in the same living standard as the husband, each according to their means [2:236, 2:241, 65:1, 65:6-7]**
divorce is automatically retracted if sex between the couple takes place during the interim period [inference from 2:226, 33:49, 65:1]***
if couple reconciles, then divorce/talaq may be retracted twice during interim-period. If divorced a third time it is final unless she marries another then they divorce, only then can original partners re-marry. If the couple fear they will not maintain God's bounds, then wife may give some dowry back to release herself [2:229-230]
if couple still wishes to follow through with the divorce/talaq after the end of the interim period and undergo final separation, then two witnesses are required to complete the process [65:2]
exceptions exist, in certain situations [60:10-11]
the onus is upon the person in the wrong to rectify the situation or initiate divorce/release, and it is an obligation upon the contract-breaking party to compensate the other [2:229, 2:237, 4:19, 4:128-129, 33:28, 60:10-11]

As a side note, the last point is also mentioned in traditional Islamic law and sources, see M.Asad's note on 2:229. This system would also protect the male if he were to marry a female who only did so for his money or the marital gift then she wished to end the marriage later, because since the contract-breaking party compensates the other partner, she would have to do so accordingly. Similarly, this would protect the female if she were to marry a male who only did so for lustful reasons then wished to end the marriage later, as he would then have to compensate her.

*Also possibly provides a time limit due to a practice of the time in which husbands did not have sex with their wives but also did not divorce them, see 58:1-4, 33:4; i.e. leaving them in a state between marriage and divorce. Similar to what is implied by 4:129.

**And the same goes for the lesser situation of 'cooling-off' period. Obviously, the wife would not be removed from the home for the lesser serious 'cooling-off' period then brought back just for the post-divorce interim period.

***Inference from 2:226 is that resumption of sexual relations is equated to reconciliation, thus no initiation of divorce. Hence, same proviso for post-divorce interim period, i.e. sex = reconciliation.

From the plural usage in the following verses it can be seen that the court/authority becomes involved post-divorce/talaq:
2:229 ("... and if you (plural) fear that the couple will not uphold God's limits...")
65:1 ("... and you (plural) keep count of the period...")
Which makes sense, because it is only after divorce/talaq that the authority would be needed to make things official and ensure The Quran's laws are being followed, e.g. record divorce date, keep count of the interim period, possible examination of marriage contract, mediate, determine compensation/maintenance, living arrangement and any settlement (if disputed).






In Quran, to my knowledge, there is no discussion of divorcing by man/woman for no reason. Before marriage a lot of additional stipulations could be put into the marriage contract if the couples agreed, assuming they do not violate specifics in Quran. For example the wife could clarify divorce rights etc.
Again, to my knowledge, there is no initiation of "talaq" (the classical term for "divorce") from the wife to the husband in Quran. It would perhaps be more fitting to say she can release herself by way of ransom/exchange (which usually means giving up a part or all of her dower). This would make sense with the principle that the contract-breaking party should compensate the other.

Also you can read up on 58:1-4 and 4:128 here for situation of no resolution / intransigence:
http://www.quran434.com/wife-beating-islam.html#part3

The above is my understanding.