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#41
Discussions / Book of Revelation
Last post by fireheart47 - March 05, 2025, 11:20:01 PMDear Quran's Message forum,
Disclaimer
I am a privileged person, who can talk about these topics and explore them without immediate consequences. I am in a warm house, sitting on a computer, writing about controversial topics. Other people can get hurt or killed for saying things like I do. Please be mindful of this.
El Apocalipsis de Juan
The Book of Revelation is a confusing book, and has inspired many people in awful ways, because of fears and feelings of shame. For example, I've worried about being False Prophet or being the Anti-Christ, because I have an imaginative mind and feel fear or shame.
Fears and ideas
One of the important steps in my journey was when I felt I had sold my soul to devil, and met a person, whose father was a pastor. The person I spoke to wore shirts with pentagrams and worshiped the devil at some point in his youth. He later found God again as an adult. He didn't judge me when I cried to him and told him my fears, instead he told me, "You can't sell what's not yours to sell." This inspired me to read the Bible and later Qur'an, and try to understand where these ideas come from.
Here are some observations I've had and things I've learned:
Apocalypse
The word "apocalypse" is often understood as the end of the world. However, in the Bible and in Biblical Greek or Jewish Koine Greek, the word apocalypse (ᾰ̓ποκᾰ́λῠψῐς) means revelation. There is something being revealed in this book. What is being revealed? Above all, the scribes want to reveal the message of Jesus from the Christian perspective. Despite the doomsday prophecies and end of the world ideas, the Book of Revelation ends with hope of an optimistic future.
I believe the Book of Revelation is an allegory meant to reveal the dangers of organized religion in a secret way.
Patterns in scripture
I believe there are patterns in the scriptures placed by scribes to indicate to the readers that the scriptures have been altered. This is not to cause people to lose faith, rather to maintain faith in spite of the reality of human activities and human nature.
For example, in verse Revelation 3:14 in Greek there are three words and between these three words are the Greek letter Omicron. In the Book of Revelation this is common, and it seems like they are chanting or emphasizing these ideas, yet in English they get translated away. In Rev 3:14, the three words are the names of God.
Book of Revelation 3:14, * Originally from BibleHub
Rev 3:14 (The New World Translation) * JW bible, had to remove annotations from copy and pasted text.
However, in another verse with the names of evil, there are 7 Omicron. This indicates to me the scribes cared more about the fear of the Devil and might've secretly worshiped it, because they were being mistreated by organized religion or because they wanted to rebel.
Words, concepts, and religious systems
One of the things, which has helped me feel less fear is acknowledging the Oneness of Allah. Nothing is outside of the control of Allah. I believe we will never be completely abandoned by Allah. I believe that when the Hebrews (the people crossed over from Euphrates to Mediterranean Sea and Nile River) went to Ancient Egypt (Kemet) they learned concepts from the religious systems of that society. In that society, there were different levels of understanding. The priests knew the deities were archetypes of concepts, allegories and stories to teach ideas, yet the average people or the organized religion taught that they were gods and worshiped them. I believe cult of Set influenced the Hebrews to use this word to describe the evil forces that destroy. It is important then to understand where this comes from.
In this allegory, the most important person is Horus, which represents consciousness and the observer. The Kings would be initiated into a ceremony that would teach them this and give them awareness of the natural order. Osiris represented plants and nature, and Set represented death and conflict. They also represented star systems. Osiris represented Orion and Set represented Alderbaran. In the story, Osiris is dismembered by his evil brother into 14 pieces. Orion constellation is 10 stars. Perhaps, the ancient Egyptians included 14 stars in this constellation and therefore it made the story more powerful and taught the idea of death. A cult formed around Set, despite it being a less important figure in the story. I believe it promoted fighting, power, war, and military. The Ancient Egyptians traded metal for their weapons with the Hittites in Anatolia. The Israelites would've been in the middle of it, part of the trade.
In Hebrew, the word Satan means "to oppose" as it used in the Story of Balak in Book of Numbers (Book of Numbers 22:22).
Think of what Jesus is quoted saying about the nature of God.
Matthew 5:45 (NIV, BibleHub)
Forgiveness and transformation
I used to fear that I was these evil prophecies in the Bible, even though truly I am not the most evil person I can imagine. I believe all people can be forgiven if they repent. For this reason, I think there is a hidden meaning behind the two witnesses in the story of the Book of Revelation, because they cause all these problems, like the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet. Could they be the same people? Are we waiting for people to realize that forgiveness is free and that people can change?
Inspiration
I believe we should be aware that people can be inspired by the ideas in the Bible, regardless of their true meaning.
The idea of the Mark of the Beast can inspire people to put implants in people and do dangerous evil things, even though the authors of the Book of Revelation weren't necessarily talking about that.
Mark of the Beast
Someone on the internet told me about a verse from the TaNaKh that helped describe the meaning of 666.
1 Kings 10:14 (Tanach.us)
1 Kings 10:14 (NIV, BibleGateway)
Rev 13:16-18 (BSB, BibleHub)
I believe that this passage is warning us that organized religions exclude people from charity, based on religious membership. The name "Solomon" is based from roots SLM or ש-ל-מ or س-ل-م. This represents the organized religion, then in Jerusalem. Its members were m-slm. People who weren't m-slm, did not get to participate and did not get help they needed, the help that our scriptures say they should receive from believers.
I believe the mark on the forehead and the hand represent our beliefs and our actions. Those without the mark are those who do not believe the same things or do the same things as the members of the organized religion.
Book of Exodus 13:9 (Tanach.us)
Exodus 13:9 (NIV, BibleHub)
Back in the day of Jesus, the central temple and the organized religion was in Jerusalem. However, today, the non-organized religions of the Nazarenes has organized in Vatican, and the non-organized religion of the Arabs (nomads descended from Israelites and economic partners of Israelites) is centralized in Mecca.
Organized religion is not entirely bad. Without organized religion, we wouldn't have the organization that we do today and there would be too much disorder for us to find meaning and have faith in the wisdom of religious books and traditions. Traditions have wisdom and that is what makes them good. However, they can become the reason why people get hurt.
The Qur'an says again and again that the simple true religion is to pray to God and to give zakat. The Bible also agrees when it says something similar, worship God and love thy neighbor as thyself. This is the worship of the Hidden One, called by many names like God or Allah, and to follow the Golden Rule, known to many religious worldwide.
Sheikh Hamza Yusuf talks about in this video how hidden within the books of the Hindu religion, they believe that God is pure and imageless, like Abrahamic religions. Many educated Hindus believe some of the same ideas as Muslims, Christians and Jews.
Video of Sheikh Hamza Yusuf on alternative YouTube platform called Invidious, hosted on website called Nadeko, which supposedly protects people from being monitored or stops it from affecting YouTube data collection.
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=gYfuRgSQF2w
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYfuRgSQF2w
Thank you for reading what I've shared. This is only my perspective. Please consider it, doubt it, test it and figure out for yourselves. May Allah guide us to the truth. Subhanallah.
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
Disclaimer
I am a privileged person, who can talk about these topics and explore them without immediate consequences. I am in a warm house, sitting on a computer, writing about controversial topics. Other people can get hurt or killed for saying things like I do. Please be mindful of this.
El Apocalipsis de Juan
The Book of Revelation is a confusing book, and has inspired many people in awful ways, because of fears and feelings of shame. For example, I've worried about being False Prophet or being the Anti-Christ, because I have an imaginative mind and feel fear or shame.
Fears and ideas
One of the important steps in my journey was when I felt I had sold my soul to devil, and met a person, whose father was a pastor. The person I spoke to wore shirts with pentagrams and worshiped the devil at some point in his youth. He later found God again as an adult. He didn't judge me when I cried to him and told him my fears, instead he told me, "You can't sell what's not yours to sell." This inspired me to read the Bible and later Qur'an, and try to understand where these ideas come from.
Here are some observations I've had and things I've learned:
Apocalypse
The word "apocalypse" is often understood as the end of the world. However, in the Bible and in Biblical Greek or Jewish Koine Greek, the word apocalypse (ᾰ̓ποκᾰ́λῠψῐς) means revelation. There is something being revealed in this book. What is being revealed? Above all, the scribes want to reveal the message of Jesus from the Christian perspective. Despite the doomsday prophecies and end of the world ideas, the Book of Revelation ends with hope of an optimistic future.
I believe the Book of Revelation is an allegory meant to reveal the dangers of organized religion in a secret way.
Patterns in scripture
I believe there are patterns in the scriptures placed by scribes to indicate to the readers that the scriptures have been altered. This is not to cause people to lose faith, rather to maintain faith in spite of the reality of human activities and human nature.
For example, in verse Revelation 3:14 in Greek there are three words and between these three words are the Greek letter Omicron. In the Book of Revelation this is common, and it seems like they are chanting or emphasizing these ideas, yet in English they get translated away. In Rev 3:14, the three words are the names of God.
Book of Revelation 3:14, * Originally from BibleHub
QuoteΚαὶ τῷ ἀγγέλῳ τῆς ἐκκλησίας Λαοδικέων γράψον· Τάδε λέγει ὁ Ἀμήν ὁ μάρτυς ὁ πιστὸς καὶ ἀληθινός ἡ ἀρχὴ τῆς κτίσεως τοῦ θεοῦ·
Rev 3:14 (The New World Translation) * JW bible, had to remove annotations from copy and pasted text.
QuoteTo the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:
However, in another verse with the names of evil, there are 7 Omicron. This indicates to me the scribes cared more about the fear of the Devil and might've secretly worshiped it, because they were being mistreated by organized religion or because they wanted to rebel.
Quoteκαὶ ἐβλήθη ὁ δράκων ὁ μέγας ὁ ὄφις ὁ ἀρχαῖος ὁ καλούμενος Διάβολος καὶ ὁ Σατανᾶς ὁ πλανῶν τὴν οἰκουμένην ὅλην ἐβλήθη εἰς τὴν γῆν καὶ οἱ ἄγγελοι αὐτοῦ μετ' αὐτοῦ ἐβλήθησαν
QuoteSo down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him.
Words, concepts, and religious systems
One of the things, which has helped me feel less fear is acknowledging the Oneness of Allah. Nothing is outside of the control of Allah. I believe we will never be completely abandoned by Allah. I believe that when the Hebrews (the people crossed over from Euphrates to Mediterranean Sea and Nile River) went to Ancient Egypt (Kemet) they learned concepts from the religious systems of that society. In that society, there were different levels of understanding. The priests knew the deities were archetypes of concepts, allegories and stories to teach ideas, yet the average people or the organized religion taught that they were gods and worshiped them. I believe cult of Set influenced the Hebrews to use this word to describe the evil forces that destroy. It is important then to understand where this comes from.
In this allegory, the most important person is Horus, which represents consciousness and the observer. The Kings would be initiated into a ceremony that would teach them this and give them awareness of the natural order. Osiris represented plants and nature, and Set represented death and conflict. They also represented star systems. Osiris represented Orion and Set represented Alderbaran. In the story, Osiris is dismembered by his evil brother into 14 pieces. Orion constellation is 10 stars. Perhaps, the ancient Egyptians included 14 stars in this constellation and therefore it made the story more powerful and taught the idea of death. A cult formed around Set, despite it being a less important figure in the story. I believe it promoted fighting, power, war, and military. The Ancient Egyptians traded metal for their weapons with the Hittites in Anatolia. The Israelites would've been in the middle of it, part of the trade.
In Hebrew, the word Satan means "to oppose" as it used in the Story of Balak in Book of Numbers (Book of Numbers 22:22).
Think of what Jesus is quoted saying about the nature of God.
Matthew 5:45 (NIV, BibleHub)
Quotethat you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Forgiveness and transformation
I used to fear that I was these evil prophecies in the Bible, even though truly I am not the most evil person I can imagine. I believe all people can be forgiven if they repent. For this reason, I think there is a hidden meaning behind the two witnesses in the story of the Book of Revelation, because they cause all these problems, like the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet. Could they be the same people? Are we waiting for people to realize that forgiveness is free and that people can change?
Inspiration
I believe we should be aware that people can be inspired by the ideas in the Bible, regardless of their true meaning.
The idea of the Mark of the Beast can inspire people to put implants in people and do dangerous evil things, even though the authors of the Book of Revelation weren't necessarily talking about that.
Mark of the Beast
Someone on the internet told me about a verse from the TaNaKh that helped describe the meaning of 666.
1 Kings 10:14 (Tanach.us)
Quoteויהי משקל הזהב אשר בא לשלמה בשנה אחת שש מאות ששים ושש ככר זהב
1 Kings 10:14 (NIV, BibleGateway)
QuoteThe weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents
Rev 13:16-18 (BSB, BibleHub)
Quote16 And the second beast required all people, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the beast or the number of its name.
18 Here is a call for wisdom: Let the one who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and that number is 666
I believe that this passage is warning us that organized religions exclude people from charity, based on religious membership. The name "Solomon" is based from roots SLM or ש-ל-מ or س-ل-م. This represents the organized religion, then in Jerusalem. Its members were m-slm. People who weren't m-slm, did not get to participate and did not get help they needed, the help that our scriptures say they should receive from believers.
I believe the mark on the forehead and the hand represent our beliefs and our actions. Those without the mark are those who do not believe the same things or do the same things as the members of the organized religion.
Book of Exodus 13:9 (Tanach.us)
Quoteוהיה לך לאות על ידך ולזכרון בין עיניך למען תהיה תורת יהוה בפיך כי ביד חזקה הוצאך יהוה ממצרים
Exodus 13:9 (NIV, BibleHub)
QuoteThis observance will be for you like a sign on your hand and a reminder on your forehead that this law of the LORD is to be on your lips. For the LORD brought you out of Egypt with his mighty hand.
Back in the day of Jesus, the central temple and the organized religion was in Jerusalem. However, today, the non-organized religions of the Nazarenes has organized in Vatican, and the non-organized religion of the Arabs (nomads descended from Israelites and economic partners of Israelites) is centralized in Mecca.
Organized religion is not entirely bad. Without organized religion, we wouldn't have the organization that we do today and there would be too much disorder for us to find meaning and have faith in the wisdom of religious books and traditions. Traditions have wisdom and that is what makes them good. However, they can become the reason why people get hurt.
The Qur'an says again and again that the simple true religion is to pray to God and to give zakat. The Bible also agrees when it says something similar, worship God and love thy neighbor as thyself. This is the worship of the Hidden One, called by many names like God or Allah, and to follow the Golden Rule, known to many religious worldwide.
Sheikh Hamza Yusuf talks about in this video how hidden within the books of the Hindu religion, they believe that God is pure and imageless, like Abrahamic religions. Many educated Hindus believe some of the same ideas as Muslims, Christians and Jews.
Video of Sheikh Hamza Yusuf on alternative YouTube platform called Invidious, hosted on website called Nadeko, which supposedly protects people from being monitored or stops it from affecting YouTube data collection.
https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=gYfuRgSQF2w
YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYfuRgSQF2w
Thank you for reading what I've shared. This is only my perspective. Please consider it, doubt it, test it and figure out for yourselves. May Allah guide us to the truth. Subhanallah.
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
#42
Discussions / anti hadith resource idea
Last post by Wakas - March 05, 2025, 04:08:27 AMsalaam all,
I was thinking it would be nice to have an anti-hadith resource that lists the many many errors/problems in one place. Ideally in a categorised manner (which can be done after the list is made).
It would focus on "sahih" Bukhari and Muslim only.
So for example, anyone can list the following (with reference):
each hadith that conflicts with science
each hadith that conflicts with history
each hadith that conflicts with Quran
each hadith that conflicts with another hadith
(or a book/article that lists the above)
Any statement made by known Traditional Muslim scholar that is negative on hadith
Any youtube video that is negative on hadith (citing the aspect discussed)
Any online article negative on hadith (citing the aspect discussed)
Any forum thread discussing a specific anti hadith aspect
Cite a anti hadith book
There are some good articles/posts on this website for example.
etc
So there is a potential to lists hundreds of entries, probably thousands.
Once the data is collected it can be turned into a dedicated website/resource (possibly even a book and/or an app).
If anyone here thinks this is a good idea we can collaborate on this. Simply start listing the info in this thread.
Also I am willing to fund the project if need be, e.g. website/app/book/etc.
I was thinking it would be nice to have an anti-hadith resource that lists the many many errors/problems in one place. Ideally in a categorised manner (which can be done after the list is made).
It would focus on "sahih" Bukhari and Muslim only.
So for example, anyone can list the following (with reference):
each hadith that conflicts with science
each hadith that conflicts with history
each hadith that conflicts with Quran
each hadith that conflicts with another hadith
(or a book/article that lists the above)
Any statement made by known Traditional Muslim scholar that is negative on hadith
Any youtube video that is negative on hadith (citing the aspect discussed)
Any online article negative on hadith (citing the aspect discussed)
Any forum thread discussing a specific anti hadith aspect
Cite a anti hadith book
There are some good articles/posts on this website for example.
etc
So there is a potential to lists hundreds of entries, probably thousands.
Once the data is collected it can be turned into a dedicated website/resource (possibly even a book and/or an app).
If anyone here thinks this is a good idea we can collaborate on this. Simply start listing the info in this thread.
Also I am willing to fund the project if need be, e.g. website/app/book/etc.
#43
Discussions / Re: THE BOOK THAT CONTAINS ALM...
Last post by Wakas - March 02, 2025, 09:08:37 PM"sahih" more accurately means the isnad/chain is "sound", not that the hadith is true or not.
Almost all hadith are classed as "ahad hadith" which means they are probabilistic (not certain knowledge like Quran). This is accepted by almost all classical Traditional Muslim scholars.
https://almuslih.org/wp-content/uploads/Library/Hallaq,%20W%20-%20The%20authenticity.pdf
Almost all hadith are classed as "ahad hadith" which means they are probabilistic (not certain knowledge like Quran). This is accepted by almost all classical Traditional Muslim scholars.
https://almuslih.org/wp-content/uploads/Library/Hallaq,%20W%20-%20The%20authenticity.pdf
#44
Discussions / THE BOOK THAT CONTAINS ALMOST ...
Last post by Tahir Bashtug - March 01, 2025, 08:53:01 PMThere is an OUTSTANDING book that came out very recently that has all the potential to be the SAHIH AL BUKHARI OF THE FUTURE. This is the book that has acvieved that no scholar has been able to achieve until this point in history. There is a book that contains ALMOST ALL authentic ahadeeth. It is called Al-Jami al-Kamil Fi al-Hadith al-Sahih al-Shamil. It is written by the previous Dean of the Department of Hadith at the Islamic University of Madinah. In this book, the author claims that he has compiled all authentic Prophetic narrations (sahīh ahādīth) from more than two hundred books. This work constitutes the first time in Islamic history that a single unified work claims to have captured all authentic hadiths. This work took him more than fifteen years to complete and is a result of IMMENSE KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE.
Here is where you can download it on the internet, with the highest quality:
1st link: https://archive.org/details/jami-ul-kamil-vol.-4-version-1-arabic/Jami%20ul%20Kamil%20%28Vol.%201%29%20version%201%20%28Arabic%29/
2nd link: https://archive.org/details/4-1_20240326/%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%B9%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%84%20%28%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AC%D9%84%D8%AF%201%29%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B5%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%201%20%28%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A%29/page/n35/mode/2up
3rd link: https://www.scribd.com/document/647373763/All-Sahih-Hadith-In-One-Book-Jami-Ul-Kamil-PDF-PDF-%D9%83%D9%84-%D8%B5%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%AD-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AB-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A-%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%84-Al-Jami-Ul-Kamil-Fi-Al-Hadith-Al-Sahih-Al-Shamil-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84
Here is where you can download it on the internet, with the highest quality:
1st link: https://archive.org/details/jami-ul-kamil-vol.-4-version-1-arabic/Jami%20ul%20Kamil%20%28Vol.%201%29%20version%201%20%28Arabic%29/
2nd link: https://archive.org/details/4-1_20240326/%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%B9%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%84%20%28%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%85%D8%AC%D9%84%D8%AF%201%29%20%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%A5%D8%B5%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%201%20%28%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A%29/page/n35/mode/2up
3rd link: https://www.scribd.com/document/647373763/All-Sahih-Hadith-In-One-Book-Jami-Ul-Kamil-PDF-PDF-%D9%83%D9%84-%D8%B5%D8%AD%D9%8A%D8%AD-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AD%D8%AF%D9%8A%D8%AB-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A-%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%8A-%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%84-Al-Jami-Ul-Kamil-Fi-Al-Hadith-Al-Sahih-Al-Shamil-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%B9-%D8%A7%D9%84
#45
General Discussions / Re: Analysis of the Consecutiv...
Last post by Wakas - February 28, 2025, 08:27:47 PM #46
General Discussions / Can you please create a Discor...
Last post by Sabir Mahmud - February 28, 2025, 01:18:57 PMDear Sir, Joseph Islam,
Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh,
It's been about two years since I have been studying the Quran-alone approach to Islam. I found your site quite helpful in this journey.
But, I am a lonely Quran-alone Muslim living amidst the Sunni Hadithists. And I can't even convince people to join the Quran-alone creed because I am alone. I am not wise enough yet to establish a community of Quran-alone Muslims. I could only convince a very few friends of mine to accept some Quranic ideologies, like: there is no punishment of the grave, no punishment of stoning for adultery, etc.
I still feel lonely anyway, disconnected from the Quraniyoon brothers and sisters from other parts of the world. And I am pretty sure there are thousands of Quraniyoon brothers and sisters all around the world who feel the same — alone and isolated.
Sir, Joseph Islam, I would humbly request you to consider creating a Discord server for the Quranite Muslims. At least we will be connected virtually. We won't have to feel lonely anymore.
It would be nice to have a common platform where we can share our stories, our knowledge, and also have casual talks in free times.
And we can have a Q&A section dedicated to questions and answers only.
You know, Quran-alone Muslims are very confused about the religious practices like Salat, Zakat, etc. If we have a common platform, we can reach a consensus on how to perform Salat.
You can unite the scattered Quran-alone Muslims from all around the world if we have a Discord server. Besides, it will become easier to bring our surrounding Hadith followers into the realm of monotheism.
So, sir, I hope you will kindly consider creating a Discord server for the Quran followers and uniting them on a single platform. May God bless you, increase your wisdom, and reward you for your efforts in spreading the truth of the Quran.
Ramadan Mubarak to everyone!😊
Best Regards,
Sabir Mahmud
Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh,
It's been about two years since I have been studying the Quran-alone approach to Islam. I found your site quite helpful in this journey.
But, I am a lonely Quran-alone Muslim living amidst the Sunni Hadithists. And I can't even convince people to join the Quran-alone creed because I am alone. I am not wise enough yet to establish a community of Quran-alone Muslims. I could only convince a very few friends of mine to accept some Quranic ideologies, like: there is no punishment of the grave, no punishment of stoning for adultery, etc.
I still feel lonely anyway, disconnected from the Quraniyoon brothers and sisters from other parts of the world. And I am pretty sure there are thousands of Quraniyoon brothers and sisters all around the world who feel the same — alone and isolated.
Sir, Joseph Islam, I would humbly request you to consider creating a Discord server for the Quranite Muslims. At least we will be connected virtually. We won't have to feel lonely anymore.
It would be nice to have a common platform where we can share our stories, our knowledge, and also have casual talks in free times.
And we can have a Q&A section dedicated to questions and answers only.
You know, Quran-alone Muslims are very confused about the religious practices like Salat, Zakat, etc. If we have a common platform, we can reach a consensus on how to perform Salat.
You can unite the scattered Quran-alone Muslims from all around the world if we have a Discord server. Besides, it will become easier to bring our surrounding Hadith followers into the realm of monotheism.
So, sir, I hope you will kindly consider creating a Discord server for the Quran followers and uniting them on a single platform. May God bless you, increase your wisdom, and reward you for your efforts in spreading the truth of the Quran.
Ramadan Mubarak to everyone!😊
Best Regards,
Sabir Mahmud
#47
General Discussions / Re: Analysis of the Consecutiv...
Last post by fireheart47 - February 28, 2025, 01:22:40 AMDear abdul.samad and Wakas,
Do you think the meaning of "qatal" in 9:5 could be interpreted as "fight" instead of "kill". If the former where true, perhaps it would indicate holy months as time when religious conversion would be less intense, in order to be merciful. It seems like a contradiction to permit killing.
What is holy about the holy months? Are there any activities forbidden during the holy months, which indicate why and how they are holy? For example, do they coincide with any agricultural activity or hardship due to difficult yearly weather?
Thank you for considering these questions.
Do you think the meaning of "qatal" in 9:5 could be interpreted as "fight" instead of "kill". If the former where true, perhaps it would indicate holy months as time when religious conversion would be less intense, in order to be merciful. It seems like a contradiction to permit killing.
What is holy about the holy months? Are there any activities forbidden during the holy months, which indicate why and how they are holy? For example, do they coincide with any agricultural activity or hardship due to difficult yearly weather?
Thank you for considering these questions.
#48
General Discussions / Re: Analysis of the Consecutiv...
Last post by Wakas - February 24, 2025, 10:58:51 PMpeace,
I agree with 4 consecutive months and so does brother Joseph if I recall correctly.
I mention some of those points and others here:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran-calendar.html
I agree with 4 consecutive months and so does brother Joseph if I recall correctly.
I mention some of those points and others here:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/quran-calendar.html
#49
General Discussions / Re: THE QUR'AN PROHIBITS SLAVE...
Last post by Wakas - February 24, 2025, 10:49:55 PMI'm not sure what you mean because your translation of 47:4 would obviously lead to taking "new slaves".
So perhaps you mean "no new slaves are allowed to be kept" - is that what you mean?
In any case can you clarify if you actually read the first link I provided and you still think your translation of 47:4 is more accurate? I find that hard to believe hence my question.
So perhaps you mean "no new slaves are allowed to be kept" - is that what you mean?
In any case can you clarify if you actually read the first link I provided and you still think your translation of 47:4 is more accurate? I find that hard to believe hence my question.
#50
General Discussions / Analysis of the Consecutive Na...
Last post by abdul.samad - February 23, 2025, 03:03:44 AMAnalysis of the Consecutive Nature of the Four Sacred Months in the Quran
The traditional view, widely accepted among Islamic scholars, is that the 4 sacred months mentioned in the Quran are Dhu al-Qa'dah (11th month), Dhu al-Hijjah (12th month), Muharram (1st month) - three consecutive months - and Rajab ((7th month). While the traditional understanding of the sacred months being non-consecutive is widely accepted, the interpretation of consecutive sacred months is based on linguistic and contextual analysis of Quranic verses.
1. . Verse 9:5 and the Term "Insalakha":
Quranic Indication: The verse 9:5 states, "Then when the Hurum Months have 'insalakha' (passed in succession), you may kill the Mushrikeen wherever you find them. Seize them and besiege them and lie in wait for them at every point." The key term "insalakha" literally means "skinned," akin to how one skins a snake gradually and consecutively. The use of this word indicates that the Hurum months are consecutive, as opposed to a simple phrase like "when the months have passed."
Practical Implication: From a practical perspective, a consecutive period of sacred months would simplify the observance of prohibitions related to warfare and certain other activities, providing a clear, uninterrupted timeframe for these restrictions.
2. Verse 9:3 - Traditional Understanding and Its Issues:
Verse 9:3 states, "This is an announcement from Allah and His messenger to the people on the Day of the greater pilgrimage." Traditionally, this is understood to be on the 10th of Dhu al-Hijjah. Therefore, presumably, the free movement will start from 10th of Dul Hajj and spreads into Muharram (next year), Safer, Rabihul Awwal and until 10th of Rabihul Akhir. This is inconsistent and also this will create confusion since Mushrikeen are prohibited from approaching the Sacred Mosque after this year [9:28], implying that the four months do not include Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-Awwal, and Rabi' al-Thani.
3. Alternative Interpretation of Yamul Hajjul Akbar:
Yamul Hajjul Akbar could be the first day of Ramadan. The Quran mentions "al hajj shahrun malomat" (well-known months) in 2:197, indicating that Hajj spans over several months. If Yamul Hajjul Akbar is on the first day of Ramadan, the four consecutive months would be Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, and Dhu al-Hijjah, aligning with the end of the year. This interpretation links logically with the prohibition of Mushrikeen approaching Masjid al-Haram from the next year onwards.
There is no logical explanation for why Ramadan is not considered a sacred month and waging war during Ramadan is generally not permissible unless Muslims are attacked by enemies.
Rajab was considered a sacred month by the pagan Arabs before the advent of Islam. It is possible that Rajab was skillfully retained as a sacred month to maintain continuity and influenced by its historical sanctity, ensuring cultural and religious cohesion.
Conclusion:
The analysis suggests that the four Hurum months indicated in the Quran are consecutive, supported by the term "insalakha" and an alternative interpretation of Yamul Hajjul Akbar being the first day of Ramadan. The 4 consecutive months ends after Dul Hajj, which is the end of the year (Ramadan, Shawwal, Dul Qadah and Dul Hajj).
The traditional view, widely accepted among Islamic scholars, is that the 4 sacred months mentioned in the Quran are Dhu al-Qa'dah (11th month), Dhu al-Hijjah (12th month), Muharram (1st month) - three consecutive months - and Rajab ((7th month). While the traditional understanding of the sacred months being non-consecutive is widely accepted, the interpretation of consecutive sacred months is based on linguistic and contextual analysis of Quranic verses.
1. . Verse 9:5 and the Term "Insalakha":
Quranic Indication: The verse 9:5 states, "Then when the Hurum Months have 'insalakha' (passed in succession), you may kill the Mushrikeen wherever you find them. Seize them and besiege them and lie in wait for them at every point." The key term "insalakha" literally means "skinned," akin to how one skins a snake gradually and consecutively. The use of this word indicates that the Hurum months are consecutive, as opposed to a simple phrase like "when the months have passed."
Practical Implication: From a practical perspective, a consecutive period of sacred months would simplify the observance of prohibitions related to warfare and certain other activities, providing a clear, uninterrupted timeframe for these restrictions.
2. Verse 9:3 - Traditional Understanding and Its Issues:
Verse 9:3 states, "This is an announcement from Allah and His messenger to the people on the Day of the greater pilgrimage." Traditionally, this is understood to be on the 10th of Dhu al-Hijjah. Therefore, presumably, the free movement will start from 10th of Dul Hajj and spreads into Muharram (next year), Safer, Rabihul Awwal and until 10th of Rabihul Akhir. This is inconsistent and also this will create confusion since Mushrikeen are prohibited from approaching the Sacred Mosque after this year [9:28], implying that the four months do not include Muharram, Safar, Rabi' al-Awwal, and Rabi' al-Thani.
3. Alternative Interpretation of Yamul Hajjul Akbar:
Yamul Hajjul Akbar could be the first day of Ramadan. The Quran mentions "al hajj shahrun malomat" (well-known months) in 2:197, indicating that Hajj spans over several months. If Yamul Hajjul Akbar is on the first day of Ramadan, the four consecutive months would be Ramadan, Shawwal, Dhu al-Qi'dah, and Dhu al-Hijjah, aligning with the end of the year. This interpretation links logically with the prohibition of Mushrikeen approaching Masjid al-Haram from the next year onwards.
There is no logical explanation for why Ramadan is not considered a sacred month and waging war during Ramadan is generally not permissible unless Muslims are attacked by enemies.
Rajab was considered a sacred month by the pagan Arabs before the advent of Islam. It is possible that Rajab was skillfully retained as a sacred month to maintain continuity and influenced by its historical sanctity, ensuring cultural and religious cohesion.
Conclusion:
The analysis suggests that the four Hurum months indicated in the Quran are consecutive, supported by the term "insalakha" and an alternative interpretation of Yamul Hajjul Akbar being the first day of Ramadan. The 4 consecutive months ends after Dul Hajj, which is the end of the year (Ramadan, Shawwal, Dul Qadah and Dul Hajj).