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#1
Islamic Duties / Re: Islamic Proportions
Last post by Sabir Mahmud - January 18, 2025, 04:38:35 PMRead the following thread regarding the mathematical issue:
https://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2969.0
https://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2969.0
#2
Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Yajuj wa Majuj (Gog and Ma...
Last post by Sabir Mahmud - January 18, 2025, 04:28:03 PMI found an interesting explanation on the topic of Gog and Magog in free-minds.org
check out:
https://www.free-minds.org/index.php/node/221
check out:
https://www.free-minds.org/index.php/node/221
#3
General Discussions / Re: 33:59 indifference to jari...
Last post by Wakas - January 18, 2025, 06:31:02 AMSince you did not comment on my reply I decline to comment on 24:33.
I want to see evidence you are sincere, thinking and have actually studied Quran.
I want to see evidence you are sincere, thinking and have actually studied Quran.
#4
General Discussions / Re: Question for Brother Josep...
Last post by Wakas - January 18, 2025, 06:29:17 AMe.g.
If a mountaineer says K2 is the most difficult mountain to climb - and another mountaineer says it is Annapurna - how do we determine the veracity of their claim?
What is the objective criteria if any? What is the subjective criteria?
What if the weather changes day to day?
#####
What if the point is there is no true objective criteria but making the attempt to climb them will demonstrate to the climber the gravity of the task, the extreme difficulty, the extreme challenge and make them think... maybe, just maybe the claim could be true.
If a mountaineer says K2 is the most difficult mountain to climb - and another mountaineer says it is Annapurna - how do we determine the veracity of their claim?
What is the objective criteria if any? What is the subjective criteria?
What if the weather changes day to day?
#####
What if the point is there is no true objective criteria but making the attempt to climb them will demonstrate to the climber the gravity of the task, the extreme difficulty, the extreme challenge and make them think... maybe, just maybe the claim could be true.
#5
General Discussions / Re: God Testing Humanity: Crys...
Last post by Wakas - January 18, 2025, 06:17:47 AM1) Where did you get your subjective criteria?
2) Name any book on earth that fulfils your criteria?
3) If you cannot provide an answer to (2) then feel free to make up such a book and describe it for us.
4) Can you tell us what Quran says about each of the criteria you have listed? This will give us an idea on how much you have studied this.
2) Name any book on earth that fulfils your criteria?
3) If you cannot provide an answer to (2) then feel free to make up such a book and describe it for us.
4) Can you tell us what Quran says about each of the criteria you have listed? This will give us an idea on how much you have studied this.
#6
General Discussions / Re: Why would God limit itself...
Last post by Wakas - January 18, 2025, 06:13:37 AMpeace,
I recommend this article:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/kitab-hikma.html
Specifically the discussion on what is "hikma"/wisdom.
I recommend this article:
https://mypercept.co.uk/articles/kitab-hikma.html
Specifically the discussion on what is "hikma"/wisdom.
#7
General Discussions / Re: 33:59 indifference to jari...
Last post by relearning - January 16, 2025, 01:28:35 PMDear Fireheart47 i am just seeing you are trying to walk around the problem but not even trying to address the issues stated above as a list instead you are calling for a submission based on personal historical emotional reasons. you could kindly look at this link for my humble idea of how a holy book claiming to be salvation of people coming from god should be: God Testing Humanity: Crystal Clear Approach Suggestions and also kindly check this Why Would...
#8
General Discussions / Re: 33:59 indifference to jari...
Last post by fireheart47 - January 16, 2025, 10:01:40 AMDear relearning,
I thought to check back on this topic, because I remembered something, which I forgot to mention.
Some of the earliest evidence of Jesus was found in the ruins of Pompeii, which was preserved in the pyroclastic flow. Graffiti showed signs of Jewish followers of Jesus. Pompeii erupted in 79 A.D. in the Gregorian calendar.
Scientists who studied these ruins, and the writings of philosophers and ancient authors, say that Pompeii was famous for its sex slavery. They had many male and female Jewish sex slaves.
In my mind, it is not a coincidence it suffered such fate at the moment it did. In my experience, moments often align, and things occur simultaneously without explanation.
I don't know a lot of the answers to the questions you have. However, I can tell you first what I'd do to find the answers.
The Qur'an is written in Arabic, and so first I'd look at all the problematic verses and try to find out if there's a hidden translation or interpretation that can be rationally determined through linguistics, comparative linguistics, scriptural comparisons, and historical comparison. Part of this process includes looking at what scholars have already said in what people call, "tafsir".
If that doesn't make sit right with my conscience, then I'll read the entire Surah, looking for connections across long portions of the text, because people's attentions span was much longer during that era.
In your questions you mention God a lot. If God is the force which set the world in motion, giving life, instead of letting it be nothing, than it doesn't make sense for people to act against that by opposing others into submission and killing.
This sort of logic is the reasoning behind the Golden Rule and the fundamental ideas in Qur'an and earlier books, which give context to what "peace", "completeness" and all these other concepts which define "Islam". This is often not said, because religion is organized and people repeat the same thing over and over, fighting and killing, contradicting the fundamentals, instead of considering, discerning and testing through various methods.
For this reason, I do not want to mislead into an organized religion. Yet I believe the concept of Islam is important, and it's why the Qur'an has value.
You said I didn't answer any of your questions before, so I'll re-address myself simply. Scripture is written by humans called scribes. God is spiritual, it communicated with people before any book ever existed. The books have the spirit of God, because when you study it, it gives us wisdom and guidance in a transformative powerful way.
Errors, mistakes, and misleading information which contradict the fundamental ideas exist in all the scriptures. Yet, people say they're 100% true, because they just want everyone to follow along.
Be should careful what we follow, because if we don't know where we're going, than there's a risk we're going to be misled. Like a bunch of buffalo jumping off a cliff together unable to stop, because the people behind push you towards it.
Just because these scriptures aren't 100% true doesn't mean they aren't perfect. Because they reveal something important: a warning of what is truly happening.
It is a mystery, because even though it's not all true, it fits together and works together. Someone wise told me if this is a religion of God than only God can add and remove. Even if something seems bad, we shouldn't change it. It's not our responsibility, and the burden falls on those who made that mistake a long time ago. That's what, "Woe to the scribes" means. The scribes made a big big shameful mistake, yet God is merciful and exceeds our understanding.
I think we should forgive the scribes, just like we would want others to forgive us.
The way it happens is complicated (ex: the real first surah, the real first ayah, the location of vowels, differences in archeological finds). The Qur'an is exceptional in that it seems to have less differences than other scripture.
So, when the Qur'an says to kill pagans, I am upset that it says that, and I disagree with it because it contradicts the fundamental ideas (ex: Cain and Abel, Mark of Cain to prevent vengeance, Noah's flood on murderous world, Jesus pacifism even with Samaritans, Hud's camel).
However, it doesn't shake my faith in the rich wisdom that it provides me with. For me, the Qur'an answers the mysteries of why Christianity and Judaism are what they are.
Allah, al-Ilah, ilah, El, Eloh, Elohim, Elaha. These are the original written names of an ancient idea of single source behind and pushing reality.
Traditionally when a word in Hebrew ends with Ha, it is feminine.
Please question this information, doubt it, test it. I hope you find an answer and that we all figure it out ourselves. I hope you or anyone reading this does not get mislead into harmful situations.
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
I thought to check back on this topic, because I remembered something, which I forgot to mention.
Some of the earliest evidence of Jesus was found in the ruins of Pompeii, which was preserved in the pyroclastic flow. Graffiti showed signs of Jewish followers of Jesus. Pompeii erupted in 79 A.D. in the Gregorian calendar.
Scientists who studied these ruins, and the writings of philosophers and ancient authors, say that Pompeii was famous for its sex slavery. They had many male and female Jewish sex slaves.
In my mind, it is not a coincidence it suffered such fate at the moment it did. In my experience, moments often align, and things occur simultaneously without explanation.
I don't know a lot of the answers to the questions you have. However, I can tell you first what I'd do to find the answers.
The Qur'an is written in Arabic, and so first I'd look at all the problematic verses and try to find out if there's a hidden translation or interpretation that can be rationally determined through linguistics, comparative linguistics, scriptural comparisons, and historical comparison. Part of this process includes looking at what scholars have already said in what people call, "tafsir".
If that doesn't make sit right with my conscience, then I'll read the entire Surah, looking for connections across long portions of the text, because people's attentions span was much longer during that era.
In your questions you mention God a lot. If God is the force which set the world in motion, giving life, instead of letting it be nothing, than it doesn't make sense for people to act against that by opposing others into submission and killing.
This sort of logic is the reasoning behind the Golden Rule and the fundamental ideas in Qur'an and earlier books, which give context to what "peace", "completeness" and all these other concepts which define "Islam". This is often not said, because religion is organized and people repeat the same thing over and over, fighting and killing, contradicting the fundamentals, instead of considering, discerning and testing through various methods.
For this reason, I do not want to mislead into an organized religion. Yet I believe the concept of Islam is important, and it's why the Qur'an has value.
You said I didn't answer any of your questions before, so I'll re-address myself simply. Scripture is written by humans called scribes. God is spiritual, it communicated with people before any book ever existed. The books have the spirit of God, because when you study it, it gives us wisdom and guidance in a transformative powerful way.
Errors, mistakes, and misleading information which contradict the fundamental ideas exist in all the scriptures. Yet, people say they're 100% true, because they just want everyone to follow along.
Be should careful what we follow, because if we don't know where we're going, than there's a risk we're going to be misled. Like a bunch of buffalo jumping off a cliff together unable to stop, because the people behind push you towards it.
Just because these scriptures aren't 100% true doesn't mean they aren't perfect. Because they reveal something important: a warning of what is truly happening.
It is a mystery, because even though it's not all true, it fits together and works together. Someone wise told me if this is a religion of God than only God can add and remove. Even if something seems bad, we shouldn't change it. It's not our responsibility, and the burden falls on those who made that mistake a long time ago. That's what, "Woe to the scribes" means. The scribes made a big big shameful mistake, yet God is merciful and exceeds our understanding.
I think we should forgive the scribes, just like we would want others to forgive us.
The way it happens is complicated (ex: the real first surah, the real first ayah, the location of vowels, differences in archeological finds). The Qur'an is exceptional in that it seems to have less differences than other scripture.
So, when the Qur'an says to kill pagans, I am upset that it says that, and I disagree with it because it contradicts the fundamental ideas (ex: Cain and Abel, Mark of Cain to prevent vengeance, Noah's flood on murderous world, Jesus pacifism even with Samaritans, Hud's camel).
However, it doesn't shake my faith in the rich wisdom that it provides me with. For me, the Qur'an answers the mysteries of why Christianity and Judaism are what they are.
Allah, al-Ilah, ilah, El, Eloh, Elohim, Elaha. These are the original written names of an ancient idea of single source behind and pushing reality.
Traditionally when a word in Hebrew ends with Ha, it is feminine.
Please question this information, doubt it, test it. I hope you find an answer and that we all figure it out ourselves. I hope you or anyone reading this does not get mislead into harmful situations.
Sincerely,
Fireheart47
#9
General Discussions / Re: To Whom It May Concern
Last post by Mohammed - January 15, 2025, 06:31:52 PMI'd like to retract these statements: (and views I expressed elsewhere that may have been inaccurate/incorrect)
Healing comes from God, whether it occurs through the use of medicine or other means.
Once again, I apologize for all my inappropriate or disrespectful words and actions.
peace,
QuoteIt is SHIRK in my understanding! (Seeking help from the doctor when God is not helping!)
Quoteusing / suggesting any other medicine is,
Ignoring God's words (The Creator) and seeking alternative ways which are found by people / scientists/ doctors (just creatures).
Healing comes from God, whether it occurs through the use of medicine or other means.
Once again, I apologize for all my inappropriate or disrespectful words and actions.
peace,
#10
Discussions / Re: Killing pests/insects
Last post by Mohammed - January 15, 2025, 05:50:21 PMRecently noticed these verses:
And to God prostrates what (is) in the skies/space and what (is) in the earth - from the creatures as well as the angels/الملئكة, and they are not being arrogant. They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded. (16:49-50)
And to God prostrates what (is) in the skies/space and what (is) in the earth - from the creatures as well as the angels/الملئكة, and they are not being arrogant. They fear their Lord from above them, and they do what they are commanded. (16:49-50)