33:59 indifference to jariya and other women's sufferings

[relearning]

33:59 O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to bring down over themselves [part] of their outer garments. That is more suitable that they will be known and not be abused. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.

so it aims to protect prophet's wives, daughters and women believers (free not jariya or slaves). it openly says this is to protect them from abuse by letting the perpetrators to recognize them. The quran doesnt focus on perpetruators or the vicious crime they are doing by targeting jariyas and other women. It doesnt say protect all women against those perpetruators but instead follow a sign so your women and believer free women will not be targeted. This directive serves to protect only these women, rather than addressing the perpetrators or their acts of targeting non-believing  free women or jariyas muslim or none muslim. Why does the instruction focus on adopting a sign to prevent targeting specific groups of women, rather than safeguarding all women against such perpetrators?

[Wakas]

See:
https://misconceptions-about-islam.com/misconception.php?id=34

There is nothing to stop anyone adopting such a modification.

However the verses seem to be suggesting a specific targeting of believing women was occurring, when believers are not in the majority in this location. The hypocrites, those with disease in their hearts, and those who spread lies were likely targeting believing women then making out they did not know they were from such a group, so these verses discuss a way to be recognised as such, thus giving an ultimatum to expose the hypocrites.

[relearning]

Quran 24:33: "And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity, to seek [thereby] the temporary interests of worldly life. And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is [to them], after their compulsion, Forgiving and Merciful.
If the Quran is a timeless and universal moral guide, how do you reconcile Quran 24:33, which prohibits forcing slave women into prostitution but does not explicitly forbid the act itself if the woman is 'okay with it'? The verse seems to focus on easing the pain of the slave girl if she is forced, but it does not impose harsh consequences on masters or those who exploit them. Doesn't this create a moral loophole where exploitation can still occur under the guise of 'consent,' especially in a system where power dynamics make true consent impossible? If the Quran is meant to uphold justice and dignity for all, why does it not unequivocally condemn the practice of using slave women for sexual purposes, rather than merely regulating it? How can this be reconciled with being omnibenevolent.

[relearning]

All of this makes one wonder: why does God take the worship of idols by pagans so seriously, threatening them with eternal hellfire and even allowing believers to kill them 'mercifully' when the opportunity arises, yet when it comes to a slave girl—someone far more vulnerable and in need of divine protection and mercy—He seems to look the other way? If a slave girl is coerced or forced into prostitution, the Quran says God will forgive her if she is compelled, but it doesn't directly threaten or punish the masters who exploit her. Why is there no divine warning or severe consequence for those who commit such a heinous act?

It's striking that God's wrath is so fiercely directed at pagans for their beliefs, but when it comes to the exploitation and suffering of a powerless slave girl, there's no comparable force or urgency to protect her or hold her oppressors accountable. If God's justice is meant to be absolute and His mercy all-encompassing, why does He not use His power to threaten or punish those who exploit the vulnerable, rather than focusing so heavily on those who simply worship idols? Shouldn't the moral urgency of protecting the weak and oppressed outweigh the condemnation of disbelief?

[fireheart47]

Dear relearning,

Your questions seem important to me. Although I am not a woman, it is important to strive to find the truth, for the sake of all of Allah's creatures. Here is my perspective on the verses and topics you have mentioned.

Pre-Islam

What is the role of scripture? And what does it mean for it to be the word of God? There was a moment in history when the Qur'an did not exist. I have faith that it was a prophet named Muhammed, who revealed the Qur'an and it changed how Arab tribes lived. Women in some places were very mistreated, and the spread of the Qur'an helped better their condition. https://www.mehbooba.com/women-in-the-jahiliyyah-pre-islamic-arabia/

Arabs

Arabs traveled a lot. The people of Judah were more sedentary with a central temple in Jerusalem for all tribes, all believers, and descendants of Israelites that left Egypt. Not all people in Judah believed or practiced the way the priests and scribes instructed. Those who did, are the antecedents of the Jewish faith. They had faith this is how God wanted them to live. Christians became a group of Jewish and non-Jewish people who became categorized as different group, because they came from Nazareth and had beliefs which differed from the religious authorities in Jerusalem. They used metaphor of Father for God very frequently, whereas Jewish writings used it less frequently. Some Arabs traveled and heard all of this, participated in this, because many of them too had ancestors who left Egypt and who had lived earlier in Mesopotamia. An Arab prophet miraculously recited what we now know as the Qur'an, which gave the believers (Jewish, Christian or any other group) a reminder of the earliest wisdom.

Islam

Now this wisdom has spread around the world through travel, commerce, war, conquest, recitation, book, and computers. It is part of what people call the religion of Islam, though the word Islam has a deeper meaning and is not just a category. That's why the prophets before the recitation of Prophet Muhammed were also muslims. It is an idea central to the Isrealite worldview and the word "muslim" is an attribute or adjective.

Here are two documentaries showing the lives of Muslim people: "A Glimpse of Paradise Culture Garden in the Islamic World" by Veronika Hofer. "Mystic Iran: The Unseen World" by Aryana Farshad.

Your verses

Some people say, the verse you shared Quran 33:59, has the implication that too much covering of the face is not advisable. The issue of sex slavery is important. It is not mentioned in this verse.

The other verse has interesting words with possible different translations. Same words in other parts of the Qur'an have different meanings. For example, "fataya-tikum" or "فتيتكم" comes from root letters ف-ت-ى, which can mean "ask", "boy", or "youth" in different contexts. Why? I don't know. Though it seems societal. https://www.islamicity.org/quransearch/?q=chapter:24

Woe to the scribes

In the Gospels, Jesus is quoted announcing to the crowds how scribes mislead people (Gospel of Matthew Chapter 23). The four gospel books were written in Greek by Christians, and the narratives are similar to each other in many ways. They must be discerned and evaluated. In the Book of Revelation, the names of God (Book of Revelation 3:14) are repeated between "ὁ"'s. There are more names of Satan repeated together (Book of Revelation 12:9). The scribes and priests in many organized religions of the ancient world and today have been forbidden to be with women. This might be a reason why they would depict The Church as a woman, in the allegory.

Wisdom of Islam

I have been told that Islam doesn't have this situation, because it promotes people to have families. The Qur'an also affirms that God is not a literal father, which is the belief of the community. It also prompts the inquisitive believers to go back and find out that the Father was a metaphor in Jewish literature, which appears to have caused people to deviate from the original wisdom and faith. The original wisdom and faith is that Allah cannot be represented by physical forms.

I have faith that if you pray to God, especially with repetitive meditational prayer like Lord's Prayer and/or Surah al-Fatihah. This technique grows faith that God already knows all of your thoughts (Gospel of Matthew 6:7-13). Comparison of Lord's Prayer and Surah al-Fatihah: https://qcpages.qc.cuny.edu/~mmiller/Fatiha-LordsPrayerComp.pdf

God will show you what you seek.

Sincerely,
Fireheart47



 

[fireheart47]

Dear relearning,

Forgive me, because I did not address the topic of sex slavery as much as I wish I would have.

It goes against the basic principles of these religions.

Even if it is popular in society, and found in scripture, it contradicts the fundamentals (Leviticus 19:17-18)(Gospel of Matthew 22:36-40)(Qur'an 41:34-36).

https://www.newageislam.com/islamic-ideology/naseer-ahmed-new-age-islam/the-quran-golden-rule-do-unto-others-them-unto-you/d/108800

People like Dan McClellan look deeply into scriptures and talk about these sensitive topics. It is important to discern what he says, yet he knows a lot about the meaning of words.

Just like people should discern what I say. I am fallible. Only human.

May God guide us all.

Sincerely,
Fireheart47

[relearning]

yes you didnt really answer my point so maybe i can make a list which should be addressed:

1. Why is Consent the Only Issue?
Why does the Quran only prohibit forcing slave women into prostitution, but not the act itself if she "consents"?
In a system of slavery, where power dynamics make true consent impossible, how can this distinction be morally justified?
Does this not create a loophole where exploitation is allowed under the guise of "consent"?

2. How Can a Slave Girl Withstand Her Master's Demands?
How can a young girl—barely past puberty, perhaps as young as 10—stand up to her master, who owns her as property, either through purchase or as spoils of war?
In a system where she has no rights, no autonomy, and no protection, how can she possibly say "no" without fear of punishment or worse?
Is it not absurd to expect her to resist when her survival and safety depend entirely on her master's whims?

3. Why Does God Ignore the Men Involved?
Why does God turn a blind eye to the men—both the renters and the beneficiaries—who profit from this exploitation? Why are there no divine threats or punishments for these men, while the vulnerable slave girl is left to suffer? How can God, who claims to be just and merciful, not use His might to protect the weak and punish the oppressors?

Why is God shy of commanding—or even threatening—those who exploit slave women, declaring their actions wrong and against His religion? He can easily send His followers to war, commanding them to kill and be killed, yet when it comes to protecting vulnerable girls—barely past puberty—He is silent. How can we expect these young girls, widows, and traumatized women to raise objections and say 'no' to their masters, when they have no power, no rights, and no protection? Instead of addressing the root cause of the exploitation, God says He will forgive the slave girls if they are forced into prostitution. But what exactly are these girls and women being forgiven for? Did they choose to be sold as property? Did they choose to be exploited by their masters? Why are the real perpetrators—the men who buy, sell, and profit from this exploitation—not threatened, shunned, or even called out as sinners? God claims to be all-merciful, yet His mercy seems to flow only to the victims, not to the oppressors. If a slave woman is 'forced,' He says, 'Don't worry, she will be forgiven.' But what about the men who forced her? Why are they not held accountable? With a wave of divine forgiveness, the case is closed—but the injustice remains. If God is truly just and merciful, why does He not use His power to end the exploitation rather than merely offering forgiveness after the fact?
4. Does God Prioritize Worship Over Justice?
Why does God prioritize punishing pagans for their disbelief over protecting vulnerable women from exploitation?
Is God more concerned with being worshipped than with the suffering of those He created?
How can this be reconciled with the claim that God is just, merciful, and compassionate?

5. Why No Clear Command to Stop This Heinous Act?
Why doesn't God issue a clear, unequivocal command to completely abolish this practice, as He does with other commands like waging war against pagans?
Why does He instead offer forgiveness to the exploited slave girl, as if her suffering is secondary to the comfort of her oppressors?
If God can command believers to kill pagans "wherever you find them," why can't He command them to stop exploiting vulnerable women?

6. The Absurdity of Expecting Resistance from the Vulnerable
How can we expect a slave girl—traumatized, powerless, and often just a child—to resist her master's demands?
Is it not cruel to place the burden of resistance on her while offering no protection or justice?
Why does the Quran not address the root cause of her vulnerability—the system of slavery itself—instead of merely regulating its abuses?

7. The Hypocrisy of Selective Severity
Why is God so severe in punishing pagans for their beliefs but so lenient toward Muslim masters who exploit slave women?
If eternal consequences are at stake, why is disbelief treated as a greater sin than the exploitation of the weak and vulnerable?
Does this not reveal a troubling inconsistency in God's priorities?

9. The Failure to Protect the Most Vulnerable
Why does the Quran not explicitly protect the most vulnerable—widows, orphaned girls, and those traumatized by war—from being exploited by their own community?
If God is truly merciful, why does He not intervene to shield these women from further suffering?
How can this be reconciled with the claim that God is the ultimate protector of the oppressed omnibenevolent?

[fireheart47]

Dear relearning,

I thought to check back on this topic, because I remembered something, which I forgot to mention.

Some of the earliest evidence of Jesus was found in the ruins of Pompeii, which was preserved in the pyroclastic flow. Graffiti showed signs of Jewish followers of Jesus. Pompeii erupted in 79 A.D. in the Gregorian calendar.

Scientists who studied these ruins, and the writings of philosophers and ancient authors, say that Pompeii was famous for its sex slavery. They had many male and female Jewish sex slaves.

In my mind, it is not a coincidence it suffered such fate at the moment it did. In my experience, moments often align, and things occur simultaneously without explanation.


I don't know a lot of the answers to the questions you have. However, I can tell you first what I'd do to find the answers.

The Qur'an is written in Arabic, and so first I'd look at all the problematic verses and try to find out if there's a hidden translation or interpretation that can be rationally determined through linguistics, comparative linguistics, scriptural comparisons, and historical comparison. Part of this process includes looking at what scholars have already said in what people call, "tafsir".

If that doesn't make sit right with my conscience, then I'll read the entire Surah, looking for connections across long portions of the text, because people's attentions span was much longer during that era.

In your questions you mention God a lot. If God is the force which set the world in motion, giving life, instead of letting it be nothing, than it doesn't make sense for people to act against that by opposing others into submission and killing.

This sort of logic is the reasoning behind the Golden Rule and the fundamental ideas in Qur'an and earlier books, which give context to what "peace", "completeness" and all these other concepts which define "Islam". This is often not said, because religion is organized and people repeat the same thing over and over, fighting and killing, contradicting the fundamentals, instead of considering, discerning and testing through various methods.

For this reason, I do not want to mislead into an organized religion. Yet I believe the concept of Islam is important, and it's why the Qur'an has value.

You said I didn't answer any of your questions before, so I'll re-address myself simply. Scripture is written by humans called scribes. God is spiritual, it communicated with people before any book ever existed. The books have the spirit of God, because when you study it, it gives us wisdom and guidance in a transformative powerful way.

Errors, mistakes, and misleading information which contradict the fundamental ideas exist in all the scriptures. Yet, people say they're 100% true, because they just want everyone to follow along.

Be should careful what we follow, because if we don't know where we're going, than there's a risk we're going to be misled. Like a bunch of buffalo jumping off a cliff together unable to stop, because the people behind push you towards it.

Just because these scriptures aren't 100% true doesn't mean they aren't perfect. Because they reveal something important: a warning of what is truly happening.

It is a mystery, because even though it's not all true, it fits together and works together. Someone wise told me if this is a religion of God than only God can add and remove. Even if something seems bad, we shouldn't change it. It's not our responsibility, and the burden falls on those who made that mistake a long time ago. That's what, "Woe to the scribes" means. The scribes made a big big shameful mistake, yet God is merciful and exceeds our understanding.

I think we should forgive the scribes, just like we would want others to forgive us.


The way it happens is complicated (ex: the real first surah, the real first ayah, the location of vowels,  differences in archeological finds). The Qur'an is exceptional in that it seems to have less differences than other scripture.

So, when the Qur'an says to kill pagans, I am upset that it says that, and I disagree with it because it contradicts the fundamental ideas (ex: Cain and Abel, Mark of Cain to prevent vengeance, Noah's flood on murderous world, Jesus pacifism even with Samaritans, Hud's camel).

However, it doesn't shake my faith in the rich wisdom that it provides me with. For me, the Qur'an answers the mysteries of why Christianity and Judaism are what they are.

Allah, al-Ilah, ilah, El, Eloh, Elohim, Elaha. These are the original written names of an ancient idea of single source behind and pushing reality.

Traditionally when a word in Hebrew ends with Ha, it is feminine.

Please question this information, doubt it, test it. I hope you find an answer and that we all figure it out ourselves. I hope you or anyone reading this does not get mislead into harmful situations.

Sincerely,
Fireheart47

[relearning]

Dear Fireheart47 i am just seeing you are trying to walk around the problem but not even trying to address the issues stated above as a list instead you are calling for a submission based on personal historical emotional reasons. you could kindly look at this link for my humble idea of how a holy book claiming to be salvation of people coming from god should be: God Testing Humanity: Crystal Clear Approach Suggestions   and also kindly check this Why Would...

[Wakas]

Since you did not comment on my reply I decline to comment on 24:33.

I want to see evidence you are sincere, thinking and have actually studied Quran.