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General Discussions / Re: Program of Creation of Man on Earth, in light of Quran.

« on: March 11, 2018, 02:06:00 AM »

Peace Niaz,

Thank you for your response. I have reflected on the interpretation you presented. In fact, it has been my traditional interpretation for quite some time. The reason I posted my original comments was because I am of the firm conviction there are not any contradictions in the Qu'ran, only in our interpretations. As such, if an interpretation ends up contradicting, or appears to contradict, other verses it should be studied more deeply to ascertain an interpretation that accounts for the information present in all verses.

I understand what the current cosmology theory of the universe says. However, those in academic circles will tell you the current Big Bang Inflationary universe model is in serious trouble given the constant discovery of anomalous organizations of heavenly structures (ie: distribution of Quasars, galaxies, CMB etc) that challenge the current paradigm. Of course, this makes sense and 'science' has a terrible track record demonstrated by the constant change of theories since the beginning of the Age of Enlightenment. This reality about the 'science' should help us appreciate that it science cannot disprove scripture (Qu'ran), but scripture CAN confirm accurate science. Having said that, your response was not addressing my question about the content in the actual verses, but rather your perspective. Although, I do appreciate you sharing your perspective, I was really looking more for an analysis of my points which appear to indicate a possible contradiction with the 6 'periods' interpretation. As you said (which I fully agree) GOD can create the heavens and the earth instantly, over 6 twenty-four hour days, over 6 periods, or any number of periods. Knowing this, please kindly have another look at my previous post and try to factor out current scientific theories, which may or may not be completely accurate, to ensure a truly unbias study based on the content of the verses.

I have found that many of us, (unfortunately) myself included, have the tendency to translate or interpret verses to conform to current (constantly being updating) scientific theories rather than just look at the verses actually say and then formulating and interpretation. This can create a potentially serious problem for those of us who have 'science' as the 'determiner of truth' rather than the Creator (via Qu'ran), because their faith could be severely shaken when currently accepted scientific theories become falsified and thus, discarded for new theories. Whereas, if we look at the verses exactly as they are written without imposing our predispositions of how things aught to be, our faith, God willing, will never be shaken by agnostic and materialism-based philosophies that currently plague scientific interpretations of data. Especially, when it comes to theories on the origin of life and origin of the universe. 

Peace,
Mike

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General Discussions / Re: Program of Creation of Man on Earth, in light of Quran.

« on: March 04, 2018, 03:07:38 AM »

Salaam Alaykum Hassan,

I am relatively new to posting on this forum. However, I did a search on the topic of the 6 days of creation to see the various perspectives on six human days and 6 GOD-days (periods), so to speak. I have posted your comment below mainly to help with your recollection of your earlier discussion. Here it is:

As I said earlier, I believe "six" days is of significance and the fact that there is no further confirmation that those days are thousands or tens of thousands of years or more.

But again, on what grounds can you assert that the word ayyamin (as in 6 ayyamin) automatically means six(6) human days? I am of the opinion that the word ayyamin (as in 6 ayyamin) means six periods or epochs, and not six human days; but if you say otherwise, then the burden is on you to prove said assertion from the Quran.
So when the Quran says that Allah created the universe in six days, that would mean six days with Allah, but for us it would be mean six periods or epochs.

Just one or 2 evidences will do for now as if too many is listed it's hard to take it all in and respond to them.

I will bear that in mind.

I came across a verse in the Quran that appears to allude to a 24-hour day given the context of the verse. I'm not an Arabic expert so, I'm posting my observation for others to validate. The verse in question 9:36. I've looked at the Arabic and every possible translation I could find (http://www.islamawakened.org/quran/9/36/default.htm), and they, essentially, all are saying the same thing. Here is an excerpt of the segment in question:

[9:36] Verily, the number of months with Allah is twelve months (shahran)  according to the law of Allah since the day (yawma) He created the heavens and the earth. Of these four (months) are sacred...

I study the Qu'ran from the assumption there are zero contradictions whereby any contradiction that is found is not the Qu'ran that is incorrect, but our interpretation. Having said that, 9:36 is directly referring to a 12-month 'human' year (so to speak) and this has been the law 'from the day' (yawma) HE created the heavens (l-samāwāti) and the earth.

I see three possible ways to interpret this:

1) it refers to the last day (day six) when everything was completed (earth, life, 7 heavens) allowing the 'period' interpretation, or

2) the first day when the heaven (l-samāi) and the earth were literally brought into existence (joined entity separated as per 21:30) prior to the fine-tuning, perfecting over the remaining 5 'days', or

3) the 'day' GOD actually said to the heavens (l-samāwāti) and the earth 'to come into existence willingly or unwilling' which upon careful study would be the second day of creation.

If 9:36 is referring to the last 'day' (sixth day) this would allow for the six 'periods' of 'GOD-days' interpretation. This would confirm the usage of the plural 'heavens' (l-samāwāti) in 9:36. Although, the usage of '(from the) day' (yawmi) seems to create some issues for a couple of reasons:

A) As far as I am aware (please correct me if I'm wrong), 'yawma' (day) has never been used in the Quran to signify anything other than a 24-hour human day, unlike 'ayyāmin' which could mean 'days' or 'periods.' Yet, it is used here. 

B) Irrespective of our interpretation of 'day', The Qu'ran indicates a six-day creation duration, not a one-day duration, which would seem to allude to the specific 'day' when both the 'heavens' (l-samāwāti) and the earth came into existence. That would be 'day two' when GOD said to the heavens and the earth come into existence willingly or unwillingly (see 41:11).

[41:11] Then He turned to the smoke, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

[41:12] In two days He determined them seven heavens, and He revealed to each heaven its commands. We decorated the lowest heaven with lamps and preserve them. Such is the decree of the Almighty, the Knower.

Based on the above, the first interpretation does not appear to align with 9:36 in light of other verses. The second interpretation cannot be correct because in the first 'day' there was only ONE heaven and the earth. The verse (9:36) clearly mentions 'heavens' (l-samāwāti), therefore it cannot be referring to the first day of creation. This leaves us with the aforementioned third interpretation focusing on the actual 'day' the heavenS (l-samāwāti) and the earth were created, which would be day 2. At this point, it is appropriate to post 41:9-12.
 
[41:9] Say, "You disbelieve in the One who created the earth in two days, and you set up idols to rank with Him, though He is Lord of the worlds."
[41:10] He placed therein firmly-set mountains, made it productive, and He calculated its provisions in four equal alike for those who ask.
[41:11] Then He turned to the heaven while it was still smoke, and He said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."
[41:12] Thus, He completed seven universes in two days, and set up the laws for every heaven. And we adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and (to) guard. That is the decree of the Almighty, All-Knower.

From what I can see, the 'heavenS' and the earth were created in a single day, namely Day two. This would leave us with the remaining four days/periods to fill the earth with life after the heavens and the earth was made. This brings us back to my initial question of whether the six days of creation were 24-hour days or GOD-days (periods). Since 9:36 indicates the count of months is 12 since the day the heavens and the earth were created, that would mean after the second day of creation we were on a 24-hour clock in order to calculate 12 months.

[9:36] Verily, the number of months with Allah is twelve months (shahran)  according to the law of Allah since the day (yawma) He created the heavens and the earth. Of these four (months) are sacred...

This would make sense as the sun (lamp) and the moon would have been created by the second day of Creation allowing us to calculate time.

[10:5] He (is) the One Who made the sun a shining light, and the moon a reflected light and determined for it phases, THAT YOU MANY KNOW (the) number (of) the YEARS and the count (of time). Not created Allah that except in truth. He explains the Signs for a people (who) know.

Based on the above, I have come to the conclusion the six days of Creation were, in fact, 24-hour days, not 'epochs/periods'. Otherwise, contradictions would arise in the Quran. Furthermore, this confirms the previous scripture's account (Genesis 1). If I have missed something in 9:36 please kindly point it out.

Regards, Mike