Messages

106

Islamic Duties / Juma vs Zuhr

« on: November 06, 2016, 06:40:20 AM »

Salaam,

Does anyone know any discussion or good Quran based resource on the differences between Juma and Zuhr prayer. Traditional Islam impose lot of conditions depending on School's jurisprudence for Salat Juma to become Wajib. Any differences we glean from Quran between these two prayers when only one is possible on Friday?

107

General Discussions / Re: Is there such a thing as "A Convert" in the Qur'an?

« on: November 05, 2016, 05:10:56 PM »

Salaam,

We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
But they who disbelieve, and deny Our revelations, such are rightful Peoples of the Fire. They will abide therein. (2:38-39)

This is arguably the very first command given to and through the Man before it became Mankind, from any nation and any tribe

Questions:

• Is Quran not a Book of Guidance?
• Is Quran not a Sign of God?
• If yes, then is 2:38 not commanding anyone who come in contact with every new revelation to follow it fully and completely?
• 2:38-39 instantly followed by appeal to Bani Israel 2:40 isn't linking the context and more than suggested to embrace Quran?
• Are people of the book and Sabians still exempt from this all inclusive and explicit command?
• Are 2:62 and 5:69 clearly connected with 2:38 as a qualifier or not?

I humbly feel and think conversion is necessary with every new revelation upon contact (resulting in denial or heedlessness) OR in absence of contacting any revelation, remain on the "Qalu Bala" testimony (7:172) unblemished and return to One God. Please correct me where I've faltered.

108

General Discussions / Re: The laws mentioned in Taurah & Injeel need not be followed after Quran

« on: November 05, 2016, 03:03:41 PM »

Walekas Salaam
Sister Nura,

Thank you very much for patiently answering all my questions, I really appreciate and respect time you spent in clarification. Now, I think I'm in near complete agreement with you and Joseph Sir thread's topic887.0 and your statement nailed it:

There are Children of Israel who did not believe in the Prophet knowingly, and their fate is with God. But, God does warn them sternly to not be those who disbelieve in Muhammad and the Quran knowingly. If, they do not believe unknowingly, then they are to follow what they think is the truth within their scripture and God will judge them accordingly

I would expound knowingly=come in contact (whenever/wherever), unknowingly=news never reached them - hope you agree?

The potential problem and reconciliation difficulty that still lingers with me is this:

If they followed the guidance of the Quran, they would be referred back to their own scriptures with discernment.

The attributes and instant reaction of people of the book who believed in the veracity of the Quran is no ordinary but awestruck (eyes overflowing with tears, bowing in humility, pleading to God write them down as witnesses).
I would humbly argue, to these awesome people (if) God is sending them back to Books (it is) with confident not so much as with discernment, simply because

• These people after having shaken to the core by just listening the recitation of few verses whose hearts have been deeply moved and penetrated with pure light are hardly imagined/expected to go back to anything else and anything less rather they develop a deep burning and intense desire to know and hear more
• And so when they come across 2:38, and all of 6236 verses they feel not out of choice but gladly embrace the pure and pristine word of God, the Quran and its Law

I humbly feel from my Quran reading while there is no explicit statement about abandoning previous Laws but there are numerous implicit verses and fill-up the blank statements and rhetorical and cross-questionings and reminders to the adherent of previous scriptures so much so that practically we find not a single converted Christian or a Jew who oscillates between Quran and Torah/Injeel. Either they completely reject Quran or happily embrace it fully and unconditionally. Just as the magicians fell on their knees and gave up their life before Musa AS the people of the book give up their books and its laws and kneel down as captured in 3:199, 5:83. If I were a Christian or a Jew I would have done no differently. This is my humble observation. Don't you agree too?

109

General Discussions / Re: The laws mentioned in Taurah & Injeel need not be followed after Quran

« on: November 04, 2016, 12:28:49 PM »

Salaam Sister Nura,

You wrote (emphasis mine):

Similarly, he told me that Jews and Christians are to believe that Quran is divinely inspired and is from the same God.  But, just like we are asked to follow the shariah in the Quran only, they are asked to follow the shariah ( religious laws and rites) present in their books not the Quran. They are asked to read the Quran and refer to the Quran in order to understand which doctrines and laws became corrupted in their books. God mentions and corrects the laws and doctrines that needed correction and confirmation. God mentions, corrects and confirms their laws in the Quran, others that are not mentioned God has said that He has overlooked and brushed over much of what is in their Books.

This is what I have understood from Brother Joseph's articles and replies to me and others regarding this topic.

This is NOT how I understood Sir Joseph's position on People of the Book, he may correct me (if/when he gets to read this) but meanwhile will you please help me with the following questions:

Jews and Christians are to believe that Quran is divinely inspired and is from the same God

• What happens if whoever (or however many) among them doesn't do so?
• Where does Quran place them or calls them?
• Did Sir Joseph Islam provide link to resources/evidence where some/any sect from the Jews/Christians uphold this theology?
• What do this Quran believing BUT Torah/Gospel following sect of the Jews/Christians calls or treat those among them who don't?
• In other words, is there any evidence or traces of two major sects/groups among the people of the book disputing and debating this belief/thought?
• Is there any Synagogue/Church that caters to this unique believers anywhere in the world?

They are asked to read the Quran and refer to the Quran in order to understand which doctrines and laws became corrupted in their books

• Which sect among the people of the Book believe/uphold this theology?
• This assumes they must read/parse the entire Quran, then logically speaking how or why would they go back to something which is protect and 100% Truth to something that is NOT according to their own belief after confirming Quran
• How can (after having believed Quran as Divine writ and to be from same God) they will oscillate between EXPLICIT & GRAPHIC (in Quran) and ALLEGORIC (at best in TORAH) on the Day of Reckoning and the Hereafter life?
• After reading Quran, are the Jews not required to correct their belief/doctrine (whilst keeping the Torah law in their life) in/about Prophet Isa AS?
• After reading Quran, are the Christians not required to correct their belief/doctrine (whilst keeping the Torah law in their life) that there's no 2nd coming of the Prophet Isa AS?
• If they fail to do so, where does Quran place/call them?

Thanks in advance for your time for the clarification as it will definitely better my understanding on the subject 

110

General Discussions / Re: Mercy vs Punishment

« on: November 03, 2016, 04:25:10 PM »

Sister Amira,

Very keen observation indeed however و is not always AND for instance it has a function of oath as in Surat al-Asr but it is not limited to just these two and I heard in one linguist's talk it carries 22 shades of meanings depending upon the context. Senior members (hair-splitting grammarians) who are into the language like Br. WAKAS can certainly shed some light and it would be handy if possible to know all possible meanings of this simple but deceptive conjunction و

111

General Discussions / Re: 26:218-219 - explanation?

« on: November 02, 2016, 03:30:04 PM »

Is it talking about any specific (Tahajjud?) Prayer of the Prophet pbuh and what movements/turning among the prostrating ones? Is it literal Sajda or submission that is being alluded here?

112

General Discussions / Re: The laws mentioned in Taurah & Injeel need not be followed after Quran

« on: November 02, 2016, 03:26:58 PM »

Mashallah, 85  and Wanderer was just 14 couple or few months ago 

I think I didn't realize Sardar Miyan's age and had no idea before and so I sincerely apologize if/whenever I hurt your feeling sir however that does not mean I'm careless to younger ones but just extra respect for the aged as brother Munir rightly noted.

Coming back to the topic, which keeps popping up because it one of the important, hot and ever-green one

Here's my humble understanding/perspective after reading all the relevant articles and nearly all of the posts of Sir Joseph on the subject:
A very minuscule people from the previous scriptures qualifies (so do the followers of the Quran) and are entitled to remain on their books provided, among others, they:

• Do no Shirk
• Do no transgression in their Deen
• Do Zakah & Salah which should include Ruku and Sujud
• Judge among themselves from God's scriptures, always
• whenever come in contact with new Prophet/Messenger/Book or their news, must embrace and follow it after due verification

Please correct me if/wherever I'm wrong.

113

General Discussions / 26:218-219 - explanation?

« on: November 02, 2016, 02:25:51 PM »

Salaamun Alaykum,

Is there any explanation of these two short verses:26:218-219?

http://islamawakened.com/quran/26/218/

http://islamawakened.com/quran/26/219/

114

Discussions / Re: Genesis 18:1-26 (Shocking)

« on: October 31, 2016, 10:36:04 AM »

Praying=Prodding? I thought it otherwise and I apologize if it came across and sounded to readers like you felt 

115

Discussions / Re: Genesis 19:30-38

« on: October 30, 2016, 06:27:25 PM »

Hello Zack,

Thanks for helping me out every time I've difficulties related to previous scriptures However, with respect I do not agree with your stated sentiments/understanding:

The Books of the Bible present a more chronological narrative.... presenting "the good, the bad, and the ugly" of all of mankind... including every Prophet.... from Moses (murder) to David (adultery).

I'm just into half of Genesis still, yet coming as a Muslim and believer in the Quran I do not place ordinary mankind and messengers in the same scale. Musa's AS incidence is a not a good example and certainly doesn't fall in the "bad or ugly" category according to the Quranic narrative of the incidence. I refuse and reject Lut's AS incest story especially when Quran categorically stated that the previous scriptures are partially corrupted and that Quran is a Guardian over them - what other corruption is bigger and worst than character assassination of one of the great Prophet? For me it's no brainer. FYI the traditional Islam are not unanimous in Muhammad AS or all Prophets being Masoom (infallible) - there's a debate and difference of opinion on the subject but no parties ever associate any Prophet with most heinous crimes such as rape, incest, murder, adultery, shirk intentionally or otherwise. If anything Quran stands witness to it.

I also strongly yet respectfully disagree with you on your oft-repeated understanding:

The Function of the Bible and the Qur'an are different

Both are for, and have the same and common primary function, Guidance

(please see 28:49)

This is why I dearly miss Sir Joseph's comments and clarifications on such extremely hard to swallow pills.

116

Discussions / Re: Genesis 18:1-26 (Shocking)

« on: October 30, 2016, 05:32:36 PM »

Walekas Salaam,
Sir Joseph,

First let me thank you for taking time to address my queries - I really appreciate and feel lucky every time I get your direct response 

I've read all your wonderful articles some twice and developed desire to see previous scriptures and some FB shared wisdom posts like https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/396647927139007?stream_ref=10 and https://www.facebook.com/joseph.a.islam/posts/300599863410481 plunged me for once into OT and instantly I realized there's reconciliation to be had from your arguments and conclusions on some of the articles/topics as I understood prior to first hand OT exposure, for example

http://quransmessage.com/articles/people%20of%20the%20book%20FM3.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/circumcision%20FM3.htm

http://quransmessage.com/articles/timeandspace%20FM3.htm

and as you said

There are a plethora of Quranic queries / areas of work that I still have to address / pursue

Although raised in "The Bible" section my questions all have implications and hooks going back to the Quran discussion.

I would love to see your response and I'm not ignoring 16:43, 21:7 call, rather I think I'm in full compliance as I see you as perfectly placed Biblical and Quran scholar to address and solve my problem vis-a-vis all the Divine writs and not so other Biblical scholars for the help for the reconciliation is from your articles and thanks to your amazing work I see Quran holistically so in addition to 16:43, 21:7 I'm cognizant of 62:5, 3:71, 2:109 among very many out of abundance of caution I'm not shopping outside QM 

In the end, I can only pray and implore God to bless me with your time and attention if He so wills.

117

Discussions / Genesis 19:30-38

« on: October 29, 2016, 06:06:54 PM »

The Origin of Moab and Ammon
30 And Lot went up out of Zoar and settled in the hill country, and his two daughters with him, for he was afraid to live in Zoar. He lived in a cave with his two daughters. 31 Then the firstborn said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is not a man on the earth to come into us as is the way of all the earth. 32 Come, let’s make our father drink wine, and let’s lie with him, so that we can preserve our father’s seed.” 33 So they made their father drink wine that night; and the firstborn went in and lay with her father. But he didn’t know when she lay down nor when she arose.

34 And it came to pass on the next day that the firstborn said to the younger, “Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine again tonight. Then you go in and lie with him, so that we can preserve our father’s seed.” 35 So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down nor when she got up.

36 Thus both of Lot’s daughters were with child by their father. 37 The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab. He is the father of the Moabites to this day. 38 The younger also bore a son and called his name Ben Ammi. He is the father of the children of Ammon to this day.
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Genesis/19

Found one thread but no comment from Sir Joseph:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=628.msg2353#msg2353

Br. Hope stated this:

Story of Lut is one of the inconsistencies in the Bible.  Though he has been considered a righteous servant of God in Genesis:18,  yet in 19 we are told that he was guilty of incestuous sex with his daughters: clearly a fabrication.  Quran states that he was given wisdom and knowledge

My question is - was this a fabrication pre-Quranic revelation or post? Or in general, do you (Sir Joseph) happen to know or come across interpolation and tampering in the OT and NT after the Quran revelation?

Please shed some light at your time and convenience, while I'm posing the questions on difficult topics as I read OT from top down and then intend to read NT inshallah.

118

Discussions / Genesis 18:1-26 (Shocking)

« on: October 29, 2016, 12:23:16 PM »

Salaam,
Sir Joseph,

Abraham’s Three Visitors
1 And Yahweh appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, as he was sitting at the entrance of the tent in the heat of the day. 2 And he lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing nearby him....8 And he took curds, and milk, and the calf that he had prepared, and set it before them, and he stood by them under the tree while they ate.

Abraham Intercedes for Sodom
16 The men rose up from there and looked down toward the face of Sodom. Abraham was walking with them to send them on their way. 17 Yahweh said, “Should I hide from Abraham what I am about to do, 18 since Abraham will become, yes, become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth will be blessed in him? 19 For I have chosen him, so that he will command his children and his house after him to keep the way of Yahweh by doing what is right and just, so that Yahweh may bring on Abraham what he has spoken concerning him.” 20 And Yahweh said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin is so very grievous, 21 that I will go down now and see whether what they have done is as bad as the reports that have come to me. And if not, I will know.” 23 The two men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before Yahweh.
Source: http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Genesis/18

commentary:
 “go down.” Yahweh is with Abraham in the hill country of Judah and Sodom is to the east down by the Dead Sea, thousands of feet below them, so “go down” is literal here.
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Genesis/chapter18/21

commentary:
“Abraham still stood before Yahweh.” There is good evidence the original text read that Yahweh stood before Abraham, but that wording generally indicated that Abraham was greater than Yahweh, so the scribes changed the wording to seem more acceptable, and that it was Abraham who stood before Yahweh.
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Genesis/chapter18/22

Summary:

• Yahweh (God) was one of the three men
• Yahweh (God) partook in the food
• Yahweh (God) gets 2nd hand reports
• Yahweh (God) doesn't trust reports until after His own personal verification
• Original OT words modified to keep Yahweh's (God) status
• Yahweh (God) is neither Omnipresent nor All-knowing

Questions:

• Is this correct and reliable translation from the original Hebrew text? If so,
• How do you remove this blatant blasphemy from this chapter?
• How do Jews understand and interpret this chapter?
• For Trinitarians I believe this chapter gives them ample of fodder to support their theology, isn't it?
• Or is this a controversial chapter among the Jewish faith and academics on its existence?

Honestly, I was shocked and I'm still trying to regain and recollect myself from/after last night's reading. Hope you'll throw some light and perhaps altogether different one to make any sense out of this entire chapter.

119

Discussions / Re: Genesis 1:27 - Interpretation?

« on: October 29, 2016, 04:20:20 AM »

Walekas salaam,

Thanks Br. Hamzeh. Like I said this verse is repeated twice at least and there are within first 14 chapters quite a few vivid description of God interacting with Adam, Eve and Ibrahim AS which cannot be understood outside our 5 senses:

Gen 3:8   They heard the sound of Yahweh God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of Yahweh God among the trees of the garden

Would wait for Sir Joseph's kind clarification.

120

Discussions / Re: Genesis 1:27 - Interpretation?

« on: October 28, 2016, 04:53:09 PM »

No worries, you didn't hurt my feelings no apologies needed absolutely - peace! 
Hope I get lucky with Sir's attention, inshallah