Messages

1801

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Shirk in non-pagan times

« on: November 11, 2011, 06:43:22 AM »

We are not in the midst of a Prophet today. So the level of clarity that a Prophet of God can deliver is absent. However, that is not to say that clarity will not be manifested to anyone God wills by other means that He deems fit.

The emphasis of curtailing 'shirk' (partners with God) applies as much to today's Muslims as it does to say Hindu's.

The remit of 'shirk' is quite wide from a Quran's perspective and is not simply restricted to the worshipping of idols.

I humbly encourage you to read the following articles below. It will not only expand on the meaning of 'shirk' from a Quran's perspective, but God willing, it will also look at today's Muslim practices in light of the practices and tendencies of the Quraish of old.


IDOLATRY ACCORDING TO THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/idolatry%20according%20to%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

ARE SOME 'MUSLIMS' OF TODAY ANY DIFFERENT FROM THE QURAISH (MUSHRIKEEN) OF OLD?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/are%20the%20muslims%20of%20today%20any%20different%20from%20the%20quraish%20of%20old%20FM3.htm

I hope that helps.

1802

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: How will Abu Talib be judged?

« on: November 11, 2011, 06:30:41 AM »

I would reserve judgment on commenting on narratives sourced from later historical reports and then attempting to reconcile them with the Quran.

Therefore, this is a question I would have to decline with the proviso, God knows best about these personalities, the state of their faith and the truth of their affairs.

I seek support from the general wisdom in the following verse:

002.134
"Those are a people who have passed away. Theirs is that which they earned, and yours is that which you earn. And you will not be asked of what they used to do"

1803

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Who is better? A good Hindu or an unrighteous Muslim?

« on: November 11, 2011, 06:20:29 AM »

Peace.

Only God knows best.

In my humble opinion, arguably not. First thing to remember is that you cannot 'inherit' faith. What you 'inherit' by virtue of being born in a household is the ways of your forefathers and a particular type of scripting. There may be many who are born Muslims, but their actions are not in tandem with their professed beliefs.

With regards the clarity of 'message', a true believer would not commit excess or at least would try to do their best to curtail it. One's answerability is directly proportional to the level of guidance and clarity they have received. This concept of proportional answerability is even attested by the Quran.

Let us note a few examples:

The Prophet was warned that his punishment would be doubled if he inclined to others (17:74-75) which he nearly did. The threat to the Prophet's wives was of double punishment if they committed 'fahisha' (33:30). The threat to Jesus's disciples was that they would be punished like no other if they now disbelieved after a table set with food from heavenly hosts reached them (5:115).

So one's answerability is directly proportional to the clarity of guidance one receives. There is a responsiblity attached to every 'mercy' we receive whether it is spiritual or material.

You make a good point about today's Muslims. Brother, do you really think most of today's Muslims are any different from Hindus who only blindly follow the traditions of their forefathers?

Do you think that God does not know that if these people were born in Hindu families they would have done exactly the same as those they mock?

How many Muslims really study the Quran with 'tadabbur'? How many Muslims are prepared to even consider the misconceptions with an open heart that may have infiltrated into their religion? Or would they rather hold onto the established beliefs of their forefathers even if it conflicted with the Quran?

My brother, most Muslims in my humble opinion, Shia, Sunni, Wahabi, Deoband, Barelvi, Ismaili, 12ers, 7 ers etc are no different 'in their blind following mentality' than the Hindu's, Jews, Christians, Sikhs that also blindly follow the footsteps of their forefathers.

God does not have 'favourites' in that sense. He is not unjust to give one a better opportunity and then hold another accountable unfairly for the opportunities He Himself has not afforded them. There is method to his diversity and his judgment. He is wholly Just and in Him we put our faith for perfect judgment.

Only God can best judge others and us and He inevitably will. It is not for us to comment on who will receive God's grace.

1804

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Ibn-e-Abbas's Tafsir

« on: November 11, 2011, 05:22:21 AM »

Salamun Alaikum,

We have nothing from Ibn Abbas's pen. Nothing at all. What we have are later mufassir's (like al-Tabari) who have recorded on the authority of different people going back to Ibn Abbas and his students. There is an isnad attached. There is much scholarship whether this 'isnad' can be trusted and debate whether some of what is attributed to Ibn Abbas is actually true. So there is no tafseer from Ibn Abbas's pen or originals.

An interesting survey was carried out by Herbert Berg which is worth studying. Please find below the reference.

The Development of Exegesis in Early Islam (The Authenticity of Muslim Literature from the Formative Period)
BERG. H, First Published 2000, Curzon Press, Richmond, Surrey, Section 5, Data and Analysis: The Authenticity of Ibn 'Abbas's Hadith in Al-Tabari's Tafsir, pages 173-208

I hope this helps.

Kind regards,
Joseph.

1805

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Does Cannabis come under the category of 'Khamar'?

« on: November 11, 2011, 04:45:30 AM »

Peace,

If it intoxicates and clouds judgment then it falls under the core meaning of 'Khamr' which carries the meaning of concealment, to cover and something which clouds or obscures the intellect.

I have never taken Cannibis but from the little I do know, I do feel it clouds judgment and has the attributes of 'concealment' in the broadest sense. So therefore, I would be personally inclined to put it under that category.

Joseph.

1806

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Is sacrifice compulsory for those not performing Hajj?

« on: November 11, 2011, 04:42:38 AM »

Salamun Alaikum
 
With regards the need to sacrifice, I humbly find from the Quran it compulsory only for those who complete Hajj. Outside that (Those who celebrate Eid ul-Adha etc) it would be charity. However, I personally would strongly recommend charity in all its multifaceted forms as it has numerous benefits as well as atoning for one's sins. [1]
 
I hope that helps, God willing.
 
Regards,
Joseph.


REFERENCE:

[1] THE CONCEPT OF SADAQAH FROM THE QURAN
http://www.quransmessage.com/articles/sadaqah%20FM3.htm

1807

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Meaning of the Arabic word 'maAAahumu'

« on: November 11, 2011, 04:34:04 AM »

Peace

From an Arabic speech perspective when I listen to the Arabic verse you have shared, I note the use of the location adverb and pronoun 'Ma'hum' in reference to a past event 'We sent 'Ma'Aahum' (with them)'. This does not necessarily indicate any particular time point, other than something was coexistent 'with them' during their ministry (so scripture was either inherited or revealed).

Also I would expect 'lahum' (as in 3:180) if the rendering 'for them' was intended.

Similarly, if I listen to 59:12 in Arabic, 'la-in ukhriju la yakhrujuna ma'ahum' - If they are expelled, they will not leave 'ma'ahum' and try to understand the 'Ma'hum' here in a 'for them' sense " then the Arabic sentence becomes problematic (and possibly the English too) and will not make sense.

'If they are expelled, they will not leave for them'

Rather, it should clearly mean 'If they are expelled, they will not leave with them'

Here the 'Ma'Aahum' in 59:12's context is telling me that they will not leave 'with them' if expelled. I can't sense the Arabic in any other way listening to it.

If we accept that all that is being conveyed to the listener from the usage of 'Ma'AAhumu' with regards the kitab is a sense that a scripture was sent with them (irrespective of when but was accessible by them at some point in their existence), then I feel the difficulty is possibly resolved.

The iron (hadid), albeit portraying the following analogy I describe below, does not seem to be connected to the 'Ma'ahum' adverb and pronoun. The relevant part of the verse dealing with iron is simply saying We 'anzalna' (sent) 'hadid'. No time seems to be indicated by the Arabic which is perfectly reconcilable with the notion that it was formed during the formative periods of a planetary body.

Here is what I understand of the Book-Kitab analogy with the usage of 'Anzalna' in 57:25

I see the contrast of terms as:

057:025

Anzalna:               ma'Aahum (with them)                scripture (kitaba)                      has  balance (meezan) -                                establish (aqamu) the people (naas)
Anzalna:               NO ADVERB or PRONOUN             iron (hadid)                              has mighty power (Basun shadidun) -           benefit (manafi-u)for people (naas)


With regards the translations you have quoted, I am not very familiar (if at all) with Rashad Khalifa's interpretation of the Arabic text which seems to be inconsistently translated with regards 2:213 and 57:25 that you have provided. I am not sure as to why that may be the case but it is probable that the inconsistent translation may be indicating the support of a particular theological bias (God knows best). This is also true with some traditional translations as well.

With Muhammad Asad's translation which I am little more familiar with, usage of 'through them' seems irregular as if you were to apply that to 59:12, the phrase 'if they are expelled, they will not leave through them' becomes nonsensical as I'm sure you will agree. However, I do believe that many of Muhammad Asad's insights (both metonymical and otherwise) are extremely worthy.

Just my humble opinion. I hope this helps.

Your brother in faith,
Joseph.

1808

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Are the covenants in 3:81 and 33:7 the same covenant or different ?

« on: November 11, 2011, 04:19:45 AM »

Peace.

Yes, all related verses are linked. 33:7 is primarily linked with 5:109 and 7:6 where the message bearers will also be questioned about the message that they were sent. This is confirmed by verse 33:8.

However, as in you question, there is also secondary linkage with 3:81 where an aspect of this covenant in 33:7 is elaborated (if messenger(s) come and confirm, then support them). A further example of 3:81 where covenants are taken "through" the prophets with the people is also found in 2:63 where another aspect is elaborated (Hold firmly what we have given you).

I hope that this helps.

Your brother in faith,
Joseph.

1809

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: How do we know that God is all-knowing and won't make any mistakes?

« on: November 11, 2011, 04:04:37 AM »

Peace my dear brother,
 
This a question that is anticipated by the Quran and it is responded to in multifaceted ways. For the sake of brevity, I will cite just a couple of examples.

The Quran asks one to ponder on God's perfection by assessment of the harmony that exists throughout His Creation and the Universe. Here is one verse:
 
067:003-4
'Who has created the seven heavens in harmony. Thou (Muhammad) canst see no fault in the Beneficent One's creation; then look again: Can you  see any rifts (flaw / disorder)?  Then look again and yet again, thy sight will return to you weakened and made dim'
 
From each nucleotide in a DNA strand, each nucleus, each cell, each organ, each creature, to the multitude of creatures throughout this planet and His creation throughout the Universe. Each atom within each entity on our planet, throughout the numerous celestial bodies within our solar system, to the many possible solar systems amongst our galaxy and the billions of galaxies throughout the Universe, God has created a mechanism of harmony, a system of utter perfection. It is not some random process which has been conjured out of nothing. It has a purpose and a destined end.

Such immense knowledge required to underpin the working of such a Universe must be perfect.
 
006.059
'With Him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knows but He. He knows whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf does fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness (or depths) of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered), but is (inscribed) in a record clear' 

In tems of our Creation, and with regards the state of our souls, His knowledge still remains absolutely perfect. For Him the raising of a whole humanity will be like the raising of a single soul. He will make no mistakes.
 
031:028
'Your creation and your raising (from the dead) are only as (the creation and the raising of) a single soul. Lo! God is Hearer, Knower'
 
You may have seen this video. If not, please sit back, and take a look. I wont say much, but after the few minutes you'll see, there isn't much one can add to it.
 

THE KNOWN UNIVERSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=17jymDn0W6U
 
Your brother,
Joseph.
 

1810

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: What is Hajj the Quranic Way?

« on: November 11, 2011, 03:45:02 AM »

Peace brother,

Please find the following article which should help you with your question.

THE HAJJ ACCORDING TO THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/hajj%20FM3.htm

Your brother,
Joseph.

1811

Q&As with Joseph Islam - Information Only / Re: Is there a requirement for 3 or 5 Prayers in the Quran?

« on: November 11, 2011, 03:41:49 AM »

Salamun Alaikum.

I find the requirement to establish prayers 5 times a day attested by the Quran for believers. The following articles explain the reasons behind my views.


ARE THERE 3 OR 5 PRAYERS IN THE DAY?
http://quransmessage.com/articles/3%20or%205%20prayers%20FM3.htm

THE FIVE PRAYERS FROM THE QURAN
http://quransmessage.com/articles/the%20five%20prayers%20from%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm

I hope this helps

Kind regards,
Joseph.

1812

Posts on Other Forums - The Salaat Forum / Re: Salaat = Follow the Quran

« on: November 11, 2011, 02:01:54 AM »

LINK TO THE ORIGINAL THREAD
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=169#p273

by Joseph Islam  , On God's Earth, Thursday, November 10, 2011, 09:30 (1 hours, 28 minutes ago) @ jawaid ahmed
edited by Joseph Islam, Thursday, November 10, 2011, 10:09

Jawaid,

You have found a particular understanding which makes you sleep well. You are entitled to it. I have no problem with that.

However, I also gave you clear verses which challenged your understanding. I find your theology lacking, without warrant and does nothing to reconcile the Quranic verses. Also in my opinion, your long copy and pastes from renditions which are in my view at times a poor reflection of the Quranic Arabic, do nothing but subvert the topic at hand.

With respect, I too feel you have ignored my repeated requests and my academic contentions with your renditions and theological juxtapositions you draw from them. For me you are simply using an alternative scripture.

You say:

"From your responses you have just reproduced the traditional translations of the Quran based on hadith, the Bible, and Persian/Babylonian tales, completely ignoring the meaning of idioms, allegories etc., and being unable to sift out the real meaning of words from this jungle of corruption"

Anyone who is remotely familiar with my humble efforts some of which also appear on my website will be well acquainted with the crux of my work which is based at times on seriously challenging traditional thinking and scholarship. It is geared to addressing the misconceptions of traditional Muslim thought going to the heart of the inherent weaknesses with Islamic Secondary Sources. It also addresses Biblical interpretations. I invite you cordially to see for yourself.

However, I am not prepared to accept what I feel is a flawed argument which I do not find compelling whether that is 'modern' or 'classical / traditional'. I base my judgments on clear proof and the best meaning of the verses (39:18). That is also what the Quran asks me to do.

So much unlike the theology and renditions of the Arabic that I feel you simply 'reproduce', I humbly endeavour to conclude on the most consistent interpretation based on my ardent study of the Quran which serve to reconcile all the Quranic verses with harmony.

If you feel like you want to have the last say on the post, you are most welcome. Please don't expect a further response from me to you on this thread. I don't know which part of my last statement you didn't understand.

"lakum dinukum waliya din"

Peace.

Joseph.

--
'During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act'
George Orwell

http://www.quransmessage.com
Copyright © 2010 Quransmessage.com

1813

Islamic Duties / Re: Seeking a means (wasila)

« on: November 10, 2011, 11:19:19 PM »

Peace to you all,

I find brother Zakaria's approach well grounded in the Quran. It is actually the only fool-proof approach to understanding the Quran's message and which the Quran itself encourages. In 3:7 we note "...In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book others are allegorical...".

A wisdom that can be derived from such a verse is that the 'fundamental' is far more important than the 'periphery'. Many problems of interpretation only arise because the periphery / implied or allegorical is given precedence over the 'fundamental / explicit'.

The Quran throughout repeats its central core messages ...

039:023
"God has revealed the most beautiful message in the form of a Book consistent with itself yet repeating (its teaching in various aspects) - (Arabic: mathaniya); the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble from it; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of God's praises. Such is the guidance of God: He guides with it whom He pleases but such as God leaves to stray can have none to guide"

Like brother Zakaria, I firmly believe that it is a principle of the Quran that any perceived unqualified verses be understood in the context and light of qualified verses. The explicit has to override the implied.
 
Furthermore, one should not make use of 'perceived' unqualified verses as an exit door or opportunity to authenticate ideologies which are not supported by the Quran. After all, the scripture claims to be fully consistent with itself.

Thank you brother Zakaria for the post and welcome to the forum. Lovely to see you here.

Joseph.

1814

General Discussions / Re: The Compilation of the Quran

« on: November 10, 2011, 12:52:06 PM »

Dear Brother Irfan,

Salamun Alaikum.

Thank you for your thoughts. Albeit I prefer to incline to a particular understanding which I will elaborate God willing, I do feel there is definite merit in a few possible explanations including your own quite plausible one.

Keeping in view all relevant verses:

• The Quran was revealed to Gabriel all at once so that he may part with the revelations piecemeal to a human messenger at appropriate periods.
• The Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad in a spiritual capacity (or to his heart) and then explained piecemeal. This I could also support with 75:16-18.
• The Quran was revealed to Gabriel from the 'Luh-e-Mahfuz' and an exalted assembly such as the 'mala-i-l-ala' of 37:8 which included those that were tasked with certain decrees (97:4). The duality of the 'Malaikatu' (plural) and the 'ruh' entasked with 'kulli amr' (every affair / decrees etc) is noted with respect to this auspicious night.
• The Quran as a 'revelation' (any ayat and as a 'reading') was revealed on this blessed night which would indicate that 2:185 is a reference to the first revelation to the Prophet in the month of Ramadan as discussed in my post.

I personally tend to incline to (4) also because I feel there is context to the revelation by virtue of the phrase "hudal-inasi" (a guidance to mankind).

I feel the momentous occasion (which you quite rightly observe) and the reason why it receives the appellation 'blessed' (mubarakatin) in 44:3 is linked to the 'guidance' (huda) bestowed to mankind as opposed to the revelation being received as a whole to either scenarios (1), (2) or (3) noted above.

Such a law bearing revelation of similar ilk was seen after the Book of Moses (46:12 - wamin qablihi kitabu musa - and before it was the book of Moses, 11:17 and 46:30). In this context, I understand the 'Injeel' being wisdom imparted by Prophet Jesus with the Torah's central teachings for the Children of Israel later captured as the Gospels.

Such guidance (i.e. the Quran) also came after a cessation of messengers (5:19). One of the reasons we keep fasts in the month of Ramadan as you know is also to thank God for such a guidance (hadakum wala-allakum tashkurun - He guided you so that you may be thankful - 2:185).

So for me the auspicious nature of the occasion is linked to the 'guidance' that was to be revealed through the Prophet for mankind as opposed to the whole Quran being revealed to either (1), (2) or (3) above. However admittedly, I also cannot rule out that there could be a combination of the 3 possible scenarios I have highlighted including your own quite plausible one.

I also incline somewhat to scenario (3). 

(3) The Quran was revealed to Gabriel from the 'Luh-e-Mahfuz' and an exalted assembly such as the 'mala-i-l-ala' of 37:8 which included those that were tasked with certain decrees (97:4). The duality of the 'Malaikatu' (plural) and the 'ruh' entasked with 'kulli amr' (every affair / decrees etc) is noted with respect to this auspicious night.

I also concur with your sentiment that "I did not see any indication of Jibreel's 'repeated visits' to the prophet---or any other prophet for that matter-- anywhere in the Qur'an.  In fact, the verse 53:13 ('For indeed he saw him at a second descent')  seems to make it clear that the Prophet saw 'him' (which, to me, means Jibreel) only two times'”one time described in 53:7-11 and the second time indicated in 53:13".

I don't think there were repeated visits in the 'visual / see / perceptive sense' (raahu) bar twice, but I do feel that there were some kind of 'ahlams' (dreams) 21:5, which were possibly inspired in some capacity by Gabriel at God's command at certain intervals.  I find in the Islamic secondary sources a more informal, fluid, two-way, personable relationship between the Prophet and Gabriel discussing all manner of issues which I find absolutely no support for in the Quran. I am sure you will concur.


Thank you as always for your insights. You already know very well how much I respect and value them.

PS: Truthseeker is a 'sister' 

Your brother in faith,
Joseph.

1815

Islamic Duties / Re: Is prayer prescribed?

« on: November 10, 2011, 03:10:34 AM »

Dear Doc,

Salamun Alaikum and welcome to the forum.

With regards to 'salata' (prayer), verse 4:103 makes use of the Arabic 'kitaban mawquta' which refers to 'prescribed' times. Although 'waqt' from which 'mawqutun' is formed means a state, fixed time or a period of time,  the word 'kitaban' means prescribed / enjoined / appointed / inscribed what is written or ordained.

It has a similar construct as used in the phrase "Kataba ala nafsihirahma" where God says he has inscribed / ordained / prescribed for Himself (the rule of) Mercy as in 6:12 and 6:54

Therefore there is clear mention in the Quran for 'salat' (prayer) to be enjoined / prescribed on believers and at specific times / periods of the day.

You are correct, there are no direct punishments that are mentioned for missing prayer (as in what the retribution for missing a certain prayer would be). However, God has asked believers not to abandon / neglect prayer (19:59-60) and in light of verse 4:103 above, those who are not mindful of their prayers (for one reason or another) are rebuked (107:4-5). In contrast, the references to 'establish prayer' are numerous in the Quran.

I hope that helps.

Joseph