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General Discussions / Re: Explanation for verse 110 in Al Maida (Prophet Jesus and creation)

« on: November 08, 2017, 03:20:56 AM »

From what I understood from you, Miracle114, is that its debatable who could or could not make statues?

I quote " .......you could argue it is not wrong but who would do such a thing is the question."


Doesn't that go against the whole permissibly  of  statues (at least) if that is the case?

What's the big issue to do with creating statues?

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General Discussions / Re: Explanation for verse 110 in Al Maida (Prophet Jesus and creation)

« on: November 08, 2017, 02:29:14 AM »

  As far as I know but not utterly sure there is a verse that says Allah then almighty will never directly address his creation or there is one verse that says he spoke directly to Moses.

There is a verse in the Quran where God addresses the Children of Israel when he took a covenant from them and also Job. These are mentioned in the Bible as well. Also Gibreel is a creation and God commands him to do things.

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General Discussions / Re: Explanation for verse 110 in Al Maida (Prophet Jesus and creation)

« on: November 08, 2017, 02:16:30 AM »

Exactly, I dont think he was able to do miracles and his position isnt much different from Prophet Moses. Does Moses have the ability to split seas and bring out water whenever he hit the ground with his staff? I dont think so......

Thats why I believe "with my permission" simply means "by my order" or "by my command", that Jesus didnt do any of this voluntarily but rather Allah commanded him.

I disagree.

I think "with my permission" means exactly that. Jesus was given certain powers. Whatever power he used he sought Gods permission before he used it. If you read about King Solomon he was given power over the winds and over Jinn and the ability to talk to animals amongst other things. God gave King Solomon permission to use those powers however King Solomon wished to do so. King Solomon rightly used those powers to glorify God and probably did other things to satisfy his own desires hence create some of the buildings. For example he wanted the throne of that queen. It was his wish to get that throne and not something commanded by God.

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General Discussions / Re: Explanation for verse 110 in Al Maida (Prophet Jesus and creation)

« on: November 08, 2017, 02:02:55 AM »

Salam

If Jesus did all miracles voluntarily then why did he prayed to God for `the table spread from the heaven' instead of doing it voluntarily also?

5:112 When the disciples said, `O Isa, son of Maryam! Can your Lord send down to us a table spread from the heaven?' He said, `Fear Allah, if you are belivers.'
5:113 They said, `We wish to eat from it and satisfy our hearts and to know certainly you have spoken the truth to us and be among the witnesses.'
5:114 Said Isa, son of Maryam, `O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table spread from the heaven that it may be a festival for us- for the first and last of of us and a sign from You. And provide us and You are best of providers.

In this case the request was for God to send down a table from heaven. Hence Jesus prayed to God for this miracle. This was a miracle asked of God not of Jesus.

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General Discussions / Re: Another pro-hadith article that I would like a response to

« on: November 07, 2017, 07:01:15 AM »

I think you need to read those verses where in the Quran it says "Obey God, obey the messenger" in context. My thoughts are that those words directly address the believers at that time. The prophet could only judge by the laws revealed in the Quran. The prophet could not come up with his own laws or prohibitions.

The reason why the vast majority of Sunnis and Shias find it hard to question the hadiths is because that's how they've been brought up since they were a child. The fear has been instilled in them and very rarely they will read and understand the Quran and question it's contents or what their community practices. If you read the Quran then you'll find God does not want you to blindly follow his words otherwise you'd be like the idol worshippers in the past.

There is no scholar who has any other source of divine revelation except for the Quran, Gospel and books from the Old Testament. Other sources can be used, such as hadiths, historical documents, jewish books, etc to explain verses in the divine revelations however when they are then the scholar should cite them when explaining them. It should not be a mystery as to why a certain scholar believes in such and such thing. I think far too many people are scared of actually reading up on the revelations and other sources. It's not difficult and it's actually very intriguing.

I believe God will guide you and explain his revelations. There's no need to be afraid of reading and wanting to understand Gods words without the help of a scholar.

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General Discussions / Re: Explanation for verse 110 in Al Maida (Prophet Jesus and creation)

« on: November 07, 2017, 06:47:48 AM »

Hi,

My thoughts are that Jesus was given the certain powers by God, such the power to heal, to read peoples minds, some knowledge of the future, etc. Jesus had free will to use those powers as he wished however he only used them in accordance with Gods will. However I also believe he knew his mission was to bring signs to the peoples by showing them miracles hence he did those miracles when he chose to do so. So I think Jesus did those miracles voluntarily. If you read the Bible it seems he did them voluntarily.

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General Discussions / Re: Should only Muslims be allowed to visit the Kaaba in Mecca?

« on: November 02, 2017, 06:34:19 PM »

I can't find anything explicit but the Quran doesn't contain details of everything. The same goes for the Bible. Sometimes info is contained in other text which are not divine.

I need to do a bit more reading on this to give you a better response but from reading Josephs articles I'm not totally convinced. I think Joseph does a great job of analysing the Quran which has helped me enormously but sometimes he maybe becomes strict.

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General Discussions / Re: Purpose of creation

« on: November 02, 2017, 06:30:06 PM »

First of all is not a generation of people always from the Children of Adam? It just does not make sense how you explained it. Children of Adam are mostly if not always referred to Mankind.

The key words in the verse are "when your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants". If the verse said that God took an oath from the Children of Adam then yes I'd go with that as meaning mankind. But it doesn't it says the descendants were taken brought forth from the children of Adam as in from the first generation of kids that Adam had. From that first generation God brought forth more generations and took an oath from them.

You could argue that there was no physical incest involved if God miraculously created children from Adams first kids.

We need to understand the roots of idolatry and how has humans we are inclined to follow the ways of our parents and fore fathers. As children we simply accept what our parents and elders tell us. We trust them since we have that bond with them. It's only when we become of age that we start questioning what we do. Most of us simply carry on following what our parents have taught us (hence the conflict between Sunnis and Shias, celebrating the prophets b'day, etc). These practices and beliefs then get's passed onto further generations and the cycle continues and the generations become quite passionate about the beliefs and practices of the fathers and fore fathers. So from this we can see how idolatry can creep in then become embedded in a nation.

Is it fair that as children we should be punished for obeying our parents since we've been designed to obey them?

So what I think God is saying is that look, the earliest generation of people never worshipped idols because I personally made them testify to this. It's only later generations that started to make up idols. Now that you know this don't use the excuse that you didn't know. Don't say that we were only following our forefathers.

The verses are also specifically referring to the idol worshippers in Mecca. It's not referring to the Jews or Christians since they have a book from God. The words "lest you should say" makes sense when applied to the Meccan idol worshippers but not the Jews or Christians.

If we take a look at this part for the verse - ""Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified."". It's worth noting that it says "They said". It makes sense that "They" is a reference to a previous generation. If it was all of mankind then it would make more sense to say "You all said". This would make it clear.

Sometimes I think you just need to accept the simplest, logical meaning which is useful. Why do mental gymnastics to make sense of something?

Hope that makes sense

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General Discussions / Re: Should only Muslims be allowed to visit the Kaaba in Mecca?

« on: November 02, 2017, 06:55:21 AM »

I know Joseph is of the opinion that the Kaaba was not created by Abraham and his sons but I disagree with him. I think the kaaba was created by Abraham and his sons for all of mankind to do the pilgrimage. But Muslim arrogance has led them to prohibit to all except Muslims.

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General Discussions / Re: Women in Janna/Heaven/Hereafter - what will they be like?

« on: November 02, 2017, 06:51:24 AM »

Thanks.

I agree with most of the article except for the part where the hereafter will be a spiritual one. I think we'll made made out of the earth, just that we'll have new bodies.

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General Discussions / Re: Are Quranists too extreme?

« on: November 02, 2017, 06:45:10 AM »

Thanks for both of your responses. 

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General Discussions / Are Quranists too extreme?

« on: November 02, 2017, 05:25:49 AM »

Hi,

I was wondering if Quranists have become too extreme. I am a Quran follower and don't read the hadiths much. However when it comes to prayers I follow the way most Muslims pray. This is because I think that's what God taught our prophet and that's how it was practised. I think it's good that we all pray the same way as it brings us closer. However if Quranists want to pray a different way then I accept it even though I don't agree with it.

What is wrong with praying the was the vast majority of Muslims pray? It's not hard and as I said before I think it's good if everyone does it the same way as it brings us closer.

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General Discussions / Women in Janna/Heaven/Hereafter - what will they be like?

« on: November 02, 2017, 05:19:18 AM »

Hi,

What are peoples thoughts on what women will be like in heaven?

I think most Sunni's believe that women will be joined with their husbands and be their wives. I don't think this is right and believe that both men and women will be the same. There won't be gender anymore. Hence whatever men get, women will get as well which I think makes more sense.

Thanks

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General Discussions / Re: Purpose of creation

« on: November 02, 2017, 05:14:25 AM »

This verse,in my opinion, gives two life cycles and a third one to come.

Does the Quran not say that we have 2 deaths and 2 lives?

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General Discussions / Re: Purpose of creation

« on: November 02, 2017, 05:09:03 AM »

God knows best. Verse 7:172 does seem to suggest that we were not in a human form when we have testified and witnessed our Lord. So we were possibly at that point created in our spiritual form and then put to death and then created again in a human form and then put to death and then to God we will all return.

I find it puzzling that so many Muslims including Joseph interpret verse 7:172 to mean that we were alive and testified. If you read the context of the verse then it's simply saying that the idolaters cannot use the excuse that they are idolaters because there forefathers were idolaters. God is simply saying that at the time when God brought forth a generation of people from the children of Adam that God made them testify that there is only one God. That's the only clear AND useful meaning we can derive from that verse.

Also Adam was created from mud and shaped. There is no mention of humans before or after him that were made to testify and there's no mention of it in the Bible either.