Messages

1

General Discussions / A thesis on the meaning of SALAT in the Quran.

« on: August 26, 2023, 02:46:43 AM »

Salam brothers and sisters.

I have compiled a thesis regarding SALAT in the Quran. It is quite long so I have uploaded it as a PDF and the link is below.

It is a deep analysis so it is rather long but I would love your input. Please copy and paste the URL below into your browsers search bar and download. My email is buyukbas.c@gmail.com. If you wish I can send it to you directly. All questions, discussions and criticisms are welcome.

https://www.slideshare.net/CihanBuyukbas/salat-thesispdf

Kind Regards
Cihan Buyukbas

2

Islamic Duties / A thesis on the meaning of SALAT in the Quran.

« on: August 26, 2023, 02:45:08 AM »

Salam brothers and sisters.

I have compiled a thesis regarding SALAT in the Quran. It is quite long so I have uploaded it as a PDF and the link is below.

It is a deep analysis so it is rather long but I would love your input. Please copy and paste the URL below into your browsers search bar and download. My email is buyukbas.c@gmail.com. If you wish I can send it to you directly. All questions, discussions and criticisms are welcome.

https://www.slideshare.net/CihanBuyukbas/salat-thesispdf

Kind Regards
Cihan Buyukbas

3

Islamic Duties / Meaning of Salat

« on: May 18, 2023, 12:05:26 PM »

Selam brothers and sisters

Though I have a lot of points to make on this, I believe it would be best if instead of me listing them all, that we go one by one, try to agree on and settle one point and then move onto the next.

I am fully aware that traditionally "Salat" is understood as "prayer", more precisely "5 times a day, ritual prayer". Salat is also translated in the Quran as things like, blessing, honour and in 22.40 strangely as Synagogues.

The root meaning of "Salat" is to follow something closely.  (In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse’s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).

My point would be referring to Surah 11 Verse 87 which is translated as [They said, "O Shuaib! Does your prayer (Salat) command you that we leave what worship our forefathers, or that we do concerning our wealth what we will? Indeed you, surely you (are) the forbearing, the right-minded."]

Some translators due to this nonsensical translation are forced to insert, in brackets, things such as

"(thy habit) of prayer" - Asad
"thy way of prayer" - Pickthall
"thy (religion of) prayer" - Yusuf Ali

to salvage the situation which fails.

As Im sure you will all agree, a prayer cannot command. A prayer is calling out to God and in this instance the person in question is Prophet Shu'ayb. How can prayer, coming from Prophet Shu'aybs own mouth, directed at God, command Prophet Shu'ayb himself?!?

This is the first point I would like discussed before we move on. This translation is a logical fallacy and the Quran being the Word of God, is free from such things. This Verse alone, is sufficent for me to reject "Salat" as prayer, much less  "5 times a day ritual prayer"

Once we insert the correct meaning of the word into the verse, the result is this;

They said, "O Shuaib! Does, WHAT YOU FOLLOW (Salat), command you that we leave what worship our forefathers, or that we do concerning our wealth what we will? Indeed you, surely you (are) the forbearing, the right-minded."]

Which makes perfect sense.

Looking forward to reading your view and opinions.

Your brother in Faith
Cihan

4

General Discussions / Meaning of Salat

« on: May 18, 2023, 11:28:01 AM »

Selam brothers and sisters

Though I have a lot of points to make on this, I believe it would be best if instead of me listing them all, that we go one by one, try to agree on and settle one point and then move onto the next.

I am fully aware that traditionally "Salat" is understood as "prayer", more precisely "5 times a day, ritual prayer". Salat is also translated in the Quran as things like, blessing, honour and in 22.40 strangely as Synagogues.

The root meaning of "Salat" is to follow something closely.  (In a horse race when the second horse follows the first one so closely that its head always overlaps the first horse’s body that horse is called AL-MUSSALLI (i.e. the one who follows closely / remains attached).

My point would be referring to Surah 11 Verse 87 which is translated as [They said, "O Shuaib! Does your prayer (Salat) command you that we leave what worship our forefathers, or that we do concerning our wealth what we will? Indeed you, surely you (are) the forbearing, the right-minded."]

Some translators due to this nonsensical translation are forced to insert, in brackets, things such as

"(thy habit) of prayer" - Asad
"thy way of prayer" - Pickthall
"thy (religion of) prayer" - Yusuf Ali

to salvage the situation which fails.

As Im sure you will all agree, a prayer cannot command. A prayer is calling out to God and in this instance the person in question is Prophet Shu'ayb. How can prayer, coming from Prophet Shu'aybs own mouth, directed at God, command Prophet Shu'ayb himself?!?

This is the first point I would like discussed before we move on. This translation is a logical fallacy and the Quran being the Word of God, is free from such things. This Verse alone, is sufficent for me to reject "Salat" as prayer, much less  "5 times a day ritual prayer"

Once we insert the correct meaning of the word into the verse, the result is this;

They said, "O Shuaib! Does, WHAT YOU FOLLOW (Salat), command you that we leave what worship our forefathers, or that we do concerning our wealth what we will? Indeed you, surely you (are) the forbearing, the right-minded."]

Which makes perfect sense.

Looking forward to reading your view and opinions.

Your brother in Faith
Cihan

5

Posts on Facebook / Re: The Assertion - The Quran 'Requires Nothing Else' for Interpretation is False

« on: April 26, 2019, 03:09:31 AM »

Selamun Aleykum Joseph.

Thank you for inviting me to the QM Forum.  I have not posted here nor any other forum before but I have read through this one many times. I will try to be both comprehensive and brief. I apologise in advance if I repeat some of the points I have already made on Facebook but I would like my opinions on this to be complete.

First of all I am against calling myself such things as Quranist, Quranite, Quran-Centric etc. This is clearly how sects are formed and I refuse to play any part in it. I have seen online, whether it be on forums or FB/Youtube comments or videos, people calling each other and themselves things like 19ers, Rashad Khalifa followers, Quranites and many other things as well as the usual Sunni/Shia labels. To make my standpoint clear I am only comfortable with calling myself a Muslim. I am trying to live my life as a Mumeen as described in the Quran and in the Quran, God clearly tells us not to fall into sects.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself. I can imagine you, over the years, have been subjected to many questions and statements that are outlandish. When I speak to people and my statement is ‘Quran is the only source and it needs nothing else’, I have never imagined that they would think I mean ‘try to decipher it without literally anything else as if it is an unknown language’. My meaning is that I categorise it as Quran being the only source and literally everything else to be tools that are used in trying to understand said source, God willing of course.

Now if you say to me, grammatically speaking a lexicon or a dictionary is a source then I will concede but then call the Quran something else, the only authority/reference point/law/criterion and so on (of course I am not reducing the Quran into just one or all of these labels). My point is the Quran and lexicons or any other written text from whatever period, are not in the same category. The Quran stands alone.

Opinions regarding the meanings of the words/Ayats/Surahs of the Quran from individuals such as yourself I would also consider a tool. Whether it be an insight of a believer on a YouTube comment or a comprehensive and technical article such as your ones on QM, or Quran commentaries from past/present scholars. These for me are all tools in trying to understand the source which is the Quran. Other tools include the faculties God has given me in, the ability to use my intellect, the ability to deeply/critically think, use logic to ascertain the truth, research and analyse and etc. All after serious and honest scrutiny. The lexicons as well as opinions/articles/commentaries etc. i.e. the meaning of the word the lexicon claims must hold.

I have witnessed many times the Quran acting almost like a computer program or an immune system wherein it literally manifests the falsehood, if one has made a mistake in choosing the wrong meaning of the root definition. I have seen these examples with words such as Salat, the concept of the 2nd coming of Jesus, Hell being eternal just to name a few, where the people with preconceived ideas on say the supposed 2nd coming of Jesus failing gloriously at making the Quran yield to their biased and preconceived ideas and the Quran (Subhanallah) manifests the truth and demolishes the falsehood every single time without exception (whether the person that is interacting with it is dishonest or fails to see this is irrelevant). 

As far as I'm concerned our disagreement on our brief discourse on Facebook on this matter was merely a grammatical one. Unless you have had fundamental changes in opinion in these past few months I am sure we are on the same page regarding this matter from what I have gathered reading your material on QM.

I believe this response addresses both points. There are verses in the Quran which are clearly directed to only its initial audience or specifically for some of the people that lived at the time of the Prophet such as the Verses that deal with the wives of the prophet or how to act when visiting the house of the Prophet. There might be words that are used once or twice that we may never find out the meaning of. But my general stance on, God making the truth manifest as long as the effort that it deserves is made, doesn’t change.

As I said my brother I am sure that our disagreement on this was a grammatical one. I hope I have made myself clear. I am looking forward to exchanging ideas and opinions on other matters, God willing.

May God guide us all to His straight path and reward all those who strive in His way.

Peace