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Messages - Saba

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91
Salaam Nura. It is by way of deduction that you also accept other animals are also halal. However I have today you haven't provided me a convincing response as to why grazing animals were particularly mentioned when Arabs knew to eat it. By saying you don't know why, others will say it is because that was the group of food that was made lawful like the previous people of the book. But unlike Armanaziz you have not implied we are not submitting to Allah's words etc etc. that I thank you for. Yes we have common ground on other matters....let us focus on that. Thanks Saba 8) :)

92
Salaam Nura. That explanation makes your point weaker. I never said they didn't eat grazing livestock before. They did - so why mention animals thy already knew they could eat?

@Armanaziz - let's leave it to Allah to decide who is submitting to Alah's word shall we? Your 'everything else' comment is pathetic in what it implies and I would like to think that Nura would not agree with such a statement too.

93
Salaam . My main question still hasn't been answered. So let me repeat it once again so that someone who can will answer......

Why did Allah mention grazing animals for lawfulness in verse 5-1 if all animals were halal anyway?

94
Salam Saba,

can you give a verse which makes carnivores and omnivores haram explicitly?? when you say eating carnivores and omnivores is haram from the verse that says herbivores are halal, you are deducing. at the end of the day a deduction remains a deduction. Saying Herbivore are allowed, simply means herbivores are allowed, it does not mean other animals are haram.

btw, pig is a grazing animal, there are numerous species of grazing animals in the world, they are not haram. so , Allah said that grazing animals are halal with the exception of swine. 7th century Arabs were already consuming grazing animals, Allah is simply saying they can continue to do so but cannot eat swine.  it is not like Arabs started consuming grazing animals after the Quran was revealed!!!!!

Salaam. Why would I do that? Can you give me an explicit verse that makes bestiality haram without deduction? No you cannot - you have to deduce. 16:72 gives us permissibly for mates of our own kind. By your argument why are you then deducing that bestiality is haram? Where is the explicit verse to make bestiality haram? Please stay consistent with your arguments.

Anyway, I asked a simple q. Why did Allah mention grazing animals for lawfulness in verse 5-1 if all animals were halal anyway?.

Also if the food of believers were allowed for the people of the book and their food for us, and you say we can eat cats and dogs etc, how can then these animals that you claim we can eat be halal for the people of the book when their scriptures forbid it?

Please provide answers for that if you can. Thanks Saba

95
Salaam Abbsrayray. Thank you so much for your post which I agree with.


I'd like to put Armanaziz'a his own argument to him. @armanaziz - you admit that 5-1 makes it halal for 'grazing animals'. Ok then - please find me a verse which makes lions, cats and dogs etc halal. Just like the 5-1 verse. One clear verse please. If you say that this is a silly argument or expectation .....- then why did Allah say grazing animals. Why did He mention them at all? Couldn't he just left it out like other animals if they were all halal? Why mention grazing animals specifically??? He could have simply said only pig is haraam.  Saba  8)


96
Discussions / Re: Peace be with you all
« on: January 16, 2014, 04:09:10 AM »
Salaam Simone. Welcome!!!!  8) ;D

97
Thank you mods! 8) :)

Welcome good logic!

98
General Discussions / Re: Crtique: What is an Islamic greeting?
« on: January 12, 2014, 12:56:05 AM »
Salaam

I think Khalid Zia is same person as 'The_Chimp' from free-minds.org.

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1093.msg4469#new

99
Salaam Khalid,

I think you are 'The_Chimp' on free-minds.org. I can tell given your type of discussion/topics and style...virtually the same as those used on this forum. I read free-minds a lot so I can tell:

Here check this - Re: Salamun Alaikum

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606088.10

and here:

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1086.0

I noted that when you were challenged, you had no response.

Also you find the Quran-only rejection of Hadith unsupportable.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606147.msg345559#msg345559

You say: "Quran only" is nothing more than a misguided and delusional sect.

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9606157.msg345558#msg345558

I have just gone through your posts and see the overlaps with what you have written here on this forum


COMPLETE POSTS!

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=111952;area=showposts;start=0

You also like to accuse others of a lack of knowledge of Arabic. I recognized you straight away!!!!!

Pls correct me if I am wrong! Thnx Saba





100
Salaam>> I think this is an important question for sunni sufis and not just them but Shiats and other people as well. If uswa husnaa of muhammad (saw) is not found in the qur'an and they can argue that that we must follow it, then this opens doors for hadith and sunna to define what that example to follow is. I am sure sufi brother and sisters will have much literature supporting their sufi practices from that showing that they are on the right track - muhammad (saw) proper way. Shiats will have theirs and so on. Saba

101
General Discussions / Re: Crtique: What is an Islamic greeting?
« on: January 10, 2014, 12:12:01 AM »
Salaam - o.k. staying with the topic ....br. Khalid - may I ask then what is wrong with the argument that prophet Muhammad (saw) would most likely have known and used the expression 'Salamun Alaikum' with this definitive form? Why can't we take the Qur'an's testimony on this matter? Saba

102
Islamic Duties / Re: A counter to Quranists
« on: January 06, 2014, 01:58:21 AM »
Thanks for sharing sister Saba. Salath & Saum are being practiced right from the ministry of Prophet which were mentioned by Christian scholars in their books as mentioned by Bro Joseph Islam which falsifys Dr Shabbir claim that Salath was created by HAROON's mother.

Absolutely right br Sardar. I felt br. Joseph destroyed that argument in his article where he says:

Quote
There is clear evidence in the earliest Non-Muslim sources within approximately a decade of the Prophetic ministry which confirms that the earliest Muslims both prayed and fasted. There would be absolutely no perceivable interest for aggressed Christians to invent such Godly rituals and attribute them to the 'Saracens' (Arab Muslims) who they saw as oppressors.

There is absolutely no credible academic warrant or historical proof for the belief that ritual prayer was invented by later generations of Muslims in the late 8th century.

http://quransmessage.com/articles/invented%20prayer%20FM3.htm

I don't think Dr Shabbir or his trusted followers / crew have ever been able to respond to such a point. Saba  :) 8)

103
Islamic Duties / Re: A counter to Quranists
« on: January 05, 2014, 02:59:59 AM »
Dear Sardar - Salaam. Sorry to say but a confused bunch some of these Quranists are and I cannot see a society built upon 'Quranist' ideas when they can't even agree on basic matters of religion such as 'salaat' and 'saum'. They can be just as rude and divisive as the sectarians!!!. All in the name of 'learning' and 'religion is personal'. No it is not just personal. the Qur'an expects a society that works, that has a stable framework - not bickering over 3 salaat, no salaat, 5 salaat!. There is a meaning behind congregations etc. Yes your connection with Allah might be personal, but Islam is a complete way of life. Just go on some of these Quranist forums and see the bickering that goes on and yet they leave sectarian Islam because of all the bickering. !!! Saba

104
General Discussions / Re: Hello from a Monotheist outside of Islam
« on: January 05, 2014, 02:52:31 AM »
Salaam good logic and all - I think there is a bigger point here generally and not just to do with the Internet. A lot of us look for information that proves our view on a certain thing. It is called 'confirmation bias'. I suppose we all do it to some extent !?  :-\

"Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is the tendency of people to favor information that confirms their beliefs or hypotheses."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Sometimes it does not even matter that people use the views of other people that they would normally completely disagree with. For eg  - I even have a link of the well known critic of Islam who can be very rude at times !!! - Sam Shamoun - who even made use of br. Joseph's article to prove his own beliefs from the BIble to show others - 'look what some Muslims believe what the Qur'an teaches!!???" He knows very well that this is not a 'usual' Muslim position (although well argued by br. Joseph) but he still used it. One certainly for my archives!!!!!  Saba  8) :)

https://www.facebook.com/SamShamoun/posts/715796125104007



105
General Discussions / Re: who are al-araab in verse 9:97
« on: December 24, 2013, 02:54:44 AM »
Salaam Nabeel. Br Joseph also has the following to say to a similar q as yours. Saba  8)

http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=538

Quote
'A'rabi' as a term means 'Arab' people irrespective of where they dwell. They could be urban or rural dwellers. It refers to the general Arab people during the Prophetic ministry.

The term for 'Bedouin' is known to the Quran as 'baduna' (33:20).

If one notes the phrase 'baduna fi'Arabi' in verse 33:20, i.e. Bedouins / desert dwellers / nomads of the desert among the 'A'rabi', one can clearly see that 'A'rabi' here would not mean 'Bedouin' as the word 'baduna' has already been used to describe them.

I hope that helps, God willing.
Joseph.


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