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General Discussions / Quran presenting a different Geography for the Exodus

« on: November 18, 2015, 04:09:10 PM »

Many of you are familiar with the Exodus story of Moses and Pharaoh and the freedom of the Israelites

There is little to Zero archaeological evidence for the exodus of the large number of Israelites from Egypt to Palestine. No signs of pottery or items or any evidence of a large influx of people into Palestine. No evidence of a revolutionary Israelite leader bringing them across the Red Sea.

In Arabia the Untold Story, the authors ascertain that the author of the Quran’s description of the Exodus describes a very different type of exodus on a different land.

1) The author of the Quran always talks about the people of Ad, Thamud and Firaun together as if to indicate that they are a sequential timeline of civilizations within a proximate area. (38:22, 85:17, 89:6)

2) The author never mentions anything about Pyramids or slaves building grand structures for Firaun and neither does the Old Testament. (No mention of Israelite slaves in Egyptian Monuments as well)

3) The author mentions “Misr/Mitzraim” as the name while ancient Egypt was never known by this name. Kemet was the very old name for the region and the later Arabic was “Qibt”. Greek Aegyptos. (43:51)

4) The word “Fir’aun”/Faraoun is an Arabic word which means chieftain while ancient Egyptian kings were never called pharaohs. (Eg. Neb-Bahti-Ra, Jsr-Ka–Ra..etc but no pharaoh. Coincidentally, the author never uses any plural for Firaun and the king in Joseph’s story (also possibly on the same land) is referred to as “Azeez” (King) and not pharaoh as well.

5) Man in Firaun’s court mentions the fate of past nations of Aad and Thamud. (40:28) Doesn’t make sense if the place is Egypt and he is talking about other nations from other areas.

6) Firaun tells his people that he knows of no other Lord for his people than himself. (28:38) The Egyptian kings however worshipped many gods and goddesses.

7) Firaun orders Haman to fire up mud clay to make a high platform to see Moses’s God. (28:38) Such building methodology was never used in Egypt.

Firaun’s soldier who goes in search of the escaping Israelites refers to them as a “small band”. (26:53) Nowhere near the huge number that is understood today.

9) Firaun’s soliders are able to see Israelites at the other end of the Stream crossing. (26:52). This is definitely not possible on the Red Sea.

10) God struck the land of Misr with a earthquake and Fir’aun’s buildings and grand structures are levelled to the ground (7:137). But all the grand Egyptian Monuments and Pyramids are still standing tall today.

11) After Firaun’s forces are drowned, The Children of Israel inherit the SAME land of gardens and springs that Firaun ruled and his body is preserved in the drowning for them to see. (26:53-59) The Israelites never took over Egypt and no evidence of any Egyptian king drowning the Red Sea.

What are your views? Could the theatre of events and the land on which they happened been corrupted by the later Roman Emperors as it could have by the Greeks in the Septuagint Bible? Are we believing the correct story accepting that Moses (pbuh) was in Egypt despite the complete lack of evidence for any Israelite mirgration from Egypt to Palestine.

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General Discussions / Re: Location of Revelation and whether Prophet Muhammad was Meccan

« on: February 11, 2015, 03:57:04 PM »

The only real implication for me to ask such a question would be the Qibla and Hajj Pilgrimage. If the santuary mentioned in the Qur'an (Sacred Mosque) was not Mecca, then it would have huge implications for all the rites that we have been doing and our daily contact prayer. I mean it would not affect the truth of our prayer but the fact that we are facing a qibla set by someone else other than Allah or being misled by historical corruption.

I have also seen some images from the Quranic Geography book of Dan gibson of how many ancient mosques were in fact facing another old city called "Petra"somewhere way much more north closer to present day Yemen. Then slowly a few years later some were facing Petra and some MEccan and then years later, all mosques were facing Mecca.

I accept that the Quran is preserved and free from corruption but as with the Deen before, many facts may have been corrupted. The Revelation stands truthful on its own but the historical facts may collapse. And if a huge conspiracy did take place to corrupt and to rename landmarks to fit the names in the Revelation, then we have to be ever more critical about our accepted history.

Even if there was a conspiracy by someone to corrupt the Deen, i take heart with the word of Allah

["Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trust worthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Qur'an 2:256)] truth will indeed stand out from Falsehood.

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General Discussions / Re: Location of Revelation and whether Prophet Muhammad was Meccan

« on: February 03, 2015, 09:05:29 AM »

I do take guidance from all of you about not being concerned about the locality. The reason for asking was actually an offshoot about the doubt I had on the "Sacred Mosque, Kaabah and QiblaH" which has been asnwered in this thread.

Thank you very much for the responses. Salaam to all!

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General Discussions / Location of Revelation and whether Prophet Muhammad was Meccan

« on: January 29, 2015, 12:52:29 PM »

Greetings Brother Joseph,

There has been much discussion among the Quran centric community on whether the history of the revelation as it has come to us via the secondary sources are accurate or full of error. It seems that the Quran did not explicity state that Revelation took place in Mecca where Bedoiun Arabs and nomads lived and the Quran also does not explicity state that Prophet Muhammad was Meccan.

Also, the constant directive of Allah addressing the people to observe their agriculture, the heavens, olives and the waters seem to suggest that the locality of the Revelation is elsewhere and not characteristic of the dry desert lands of Mecca and also it seems that the Revelation seems to be addressing a more "knowledgeable albeit ignorant" society who also lived among people who had knowledge of previous scriptures (People of the Book) rather than an illiterate nomad bedouin community.

Some of the points are also highlighted in the documentary of Tom Holland: Islam the unTold Story but I do realize that the documentary was pretty biased in its coverage.

Is there any evidence from the Quranic Aayahs that the Revelation took place in Mecca and was revealed to a Meccan?

Ultimately, I take wisdom from your article of "Nameless cities and towns". I believe that whether the Revelation took place in Mecca, Medina or China ..it shouldn't matter. A Muslim is to obey the Message and its applications in line with submitting to God and that may be the reason why the Quran is pretty absent on names, idenitites and landmarks. It does not matter but the Message is what matters.

I am just seeking humble clarification.

Thank You.

Abdur Rahman

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General Discussions / Re: Did the Messenger Muhammad (S) had knowledge of the future/unseen?

« on: November 12, 2014, 04:02:32 PM »

Salaam to you,

There in fact numerous videos like these of "Narrations" that show the "Signs of the End of Days. I find that these are generally man made "doomsday" predictions which also find no warrant in Allah's Revelation espcially when the Lord has said that "None has knowledge of the Hour" and that it will strike you suddenly even while you are disputing among yourselves.

Some of these "predictions" go as far as to state that one of the Signs is mosques will have to be beautified to attract people to come to pray"..so the natural response would be..so if we destroyed satelittes, if we destroyed sckyscrapers and if we left mosques bare and plain..will that stop the Hour from approaching? of course not..we should ask ourselves what is the relevance of seeking the knowledge of the hour..it is the same as you wnating to know when and how you will die instead of learning how to lead a fulfilling meaningful life.

They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: "The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): None but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you." They ask thee as if thou Wert eager in search thereof: Say: "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not."
007:187

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General Discussions / Re: Testifying to Allah's existence in the past/future?

« on: November 12, 2014, 03:48:33 PM »

Greetings,

Goodness me..too quick of typing and assumption on my past as I always address Joseph and others here as Brother..noted my dear "Sister".

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General Discussions / Value Centric Understanding of the Revelation or Rule Centric Understanding?

« on: November 06, 2014, 11:41:41 AM »

Greetings Brother Jospeh,

Salamun Alaykum.

In Understanding the Revelation (Quran), some people extract the guiding principles while others focus more on the rules that are expounded.

As the Prophet's society was pretty much an unstructured bedouin tribe society, I can understand the perfect relevance of rules being revealed in order to align that society with the Deen. However, for the next generations, are we to focus on the specifics of the ruling or should we understand the Quran by applyting the values and principles of those rules that were revealed?

For example. Believing Men and Women were told to lower thie gaze and cover their privates..Instead of focusing on secondary sources that detail how long to cover, what type of headdress is permissible and all other non Quranic details, we should focus on Modesty and Piety. SO any dress code thet meets this is acceptable.

Witness and testimonial on matters of consultation- Instead of focusing on the exact numeric of 1 man and 2 woman, why 2 woman is equal to 1 man..we should focus on the value of proper documentation and the importance of having sound witnesses (at least 2) to testify to the event/information.

Prayer - Instead of arguing over methods, we shuld focus on the steps outlined in the Quran and the principle of constant communication and dhikr with Allah

Freeing the Slaves - Even though there are no "slaves" as it is today, the principle of relieving someone from suffering or his bondages or serving others to help them out of depression/difficulty in the form of teaching/chairy.

Is such a principle and value driven understanding of the Quran coupled with following other specific rulings, the best way to Understand Allah's Revelation.

Please Advise.

Thank You

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General Discussions / Re: Testifying to Allah's existence in the past/future?

« on: November 06, 2014, 11:22:36 AM »

Thank you very much for the reply brother.

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General Discussions / Testifying to Allah's existence in the past/future?

« on: October 03, 2014, 03:09:08 PM »

Greetings Brother Joseph,

This verse in the Qur'an has made me ponder deeply and I have a question regarding it that I believe others may have asked themselves also.

Surah 7: 172

Yusuf Ali: When thy Lord drew forth from the Children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants, and made them testify concerning themselves, (saying): "Am I not your Lord (who cherishes and sustains you)?"- They said: "Yea! We do testify!" (This), lest ye should say on the Day of Judgment: "Of this we were never mindful":

One may ask " How am I supposed to be accounted for a testimony that I don't ever remember making?

That question arose in me but I was wondering whether the testimony was done by our spiritual self or the part of the Rooh (Spirit) before it was activated within our human body's central nervous system?

Also, in my readings of the Quran years ago, I always felt that it was jumbled and all out of place and order and had difficulty understanding it. But having gone through Physics lessons and the relativity of Time, I understand that it is not messy but it seems "jumbled" to me because the Speaker/Author exists outside of the time/space boundary and thus sees all things in all views while I am stuck in a 3 dimenionsal reality with a forward moving time velocity. This also explains the various scenes of the Day of Judgement which are played out in the Qur'an even though from our relative time, we have not reached there yet.

With reference to the verse above, since all of the "Children of Adam" are mentioned, could it be referring to our spirits in a future time scale (to our future) in a different realm or does it refer to a past time while we were still in the wombs?

Also, when this verse was addressed to the 7th century Arabs, they may have had the same question of "when did I make testimony, I don't remember"..How could it have been addressed?

I appreciate your response.

Thank You,

Abdur Rahman

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Islamic Duties / Re: How to respond when Muslims support their "unsanctioned" practices?

« on: October 03, 2014, 01:54:08 PM »

Salamun Alaykum Brother Joseph,

Thank you for your response.

It is indeed interesting and I never thought of this before as the term "Rasool" is only used to refer to Prophet Mohamed exclusively in the Indian Muslim Circles. (Rasullullah is always used for Prophet Muhammad and no one else).

After reading your article, it now makes sense as to why Prophet Mohamed is the final Prophet with a Scripture (as Allah has guaranteed protection over the Final Scripture). But people, just as previous generations, always fall away from the message and thus Messengers are sent to guide people to the Right Path.

Of course, in this case, it is sad to see that terms have wide meanings are curtailed exclusively without any Quranic warrant. I would then say that even you are a Rasool, as you are working hard to guide the many of us who seek answers. Outside in the "Organised religion" form of Islam, of course no one seems to dare make this claims as people are ready to issue fatwas and severe punishments to those who do not conform to their norms.

Thank you Brother Joseph.

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General Discussions / Re: Hidden exception in Quranic language ?

« on: October 03, 2014, 12:21:13 PM »

Perhaps in the question above "every living thing" could be referring to every living thing on Earth or "earthly beings"..Do bear in mind that the Sign (aayah) was directed at desert Arabs and so it must be also something that they could understand at least...This would include all live form that the Earth has born..

As for the Jinn, there are different theories and popular beleief is that they are liek ghosts or demons, but there are some circles of people who believ that they are elemtal creatures such as Microscopic beings (thus beg concealed from humans) or forms of bacteria..(bacteria lived way before humans and they were formed from the lava of the crust and volcanoes.."smokeless fire"). Although it may seem crazy to assume that amoeba and bacteria can have free will and disobey/obey Allah, it may not be impossible. Or they could really be beings that are entirely concealed from our senses but not ghosts for sure.

As for the Angels, it seems plausible that they are beings created of Light, travelling at Light Speeds across the galaxies to perform Allah's commandments. The popular depiction of them being human like creatures with wings is entriely wrong and they may not have a form that we imagine. ANd since they travel at such incredible speeds, our earthly sight cant catch them and thus we cant see them and also time flows differely for them than it does for us. and Angels have no free will.

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Islamic Duties / How to respond when Muslims support their "unsanctioned" practices?

« on: October 03, 2014, 11:33:13 AM »

Greetings Brother Joseph,

Hope you are doing well and your articles and deep analysis of the Quran have really opened a whole new way of seeing Islam in its truest form and I thank you for that and I thank the All Knowing for having guided me to you. I agree with your Quran centric view wholeheartedlty and the other day I was discussing with a friend of mine of the need for Quran centriism and not following "Unsanctioned" practices blindly and we disagree on points. He ("Sunni") raised this question

Q: If many of the practices that the Ummah is engaging in is "un-Quranic" and not validated by Islam as you claim, then most of us have been gone astray. This would warrant the Almighty to send someone to set us straight, just as how He had done before to previous generations. So why then has No Prophet been sent unto our generation to set us straight? Allah says Mohamed is the last Prophet and thus it should only imply that the Ummah afterwards is rightly guided and so does not require another Prophet to guide us away from our "unsanctioned" practices as so you claim.

This was a potent question which I ponder over and I know they must be answer to it even though I could not provide an answer at that point. What would be the right response to that question?

Thank You,
Abdur Rahman