Messages

16

General Discussions / Re: Spend in God's Cause?

« on: June 09, 2016, 12:44:41 PM »

Salam Anjum,

You asked:

I have read in many verses that...Spend in God's cause...what does it actually mean?

As clarified in Muhammad Asad's commentary, to spend in God's applies to all that may be of benefit to man, whether it be concrete (like food, property, offspring, etc.) or abstract (like knowledge, wisdom, piety, etc.).

When should we break our fast?

I usually break my fast at night when the sun has completely disappeared

http://quransmessage.com/articles/fasting%20till%20night%20FM3.htm

recently..i have seen lot of anti-muslim or anti-islam posts...or comments...its really disheartening...what should we do about it

We should respond the way the Quran instructs us to respond. The Quran has repeatedly instructs us to turn the other cheek against those who ridicule the religion, as evident by the following verses:

"Be patient over what they say and remember our servant David, the man of strength for he was repeatedly turning (to God)"[Quran 38:17]

“Therefore be patient with what they say, and celebrate (constantly) the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before its setting, yea, celebrate them for part of the hours of the night, and at the sides of the day: that you may have (spiritual) joy”[Quran 20:130]

"And be patient over what they say and avoid them with gracious avoidance." [Quran 73:10]

"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together"[Quran 4:140]

"And be patient,, and your patience is not but through Allah. And do not grieve over them and do not be in distress over what they conspire." [Quran 16:127]

Even more, the Quran advice's all of us to address those who mock them with words of kindness. The Quranic verses (cited below) explicitly exhorts Muslims to turn way from those who are ignorant, arrogant, or who engage in idle talks while wishing them “salam” (peace) at the same time, in essence “emphasize the need not just for inter-religious tolerance, but for cooperative moral ventures that seek to achieve Godliness on earth.”:

"And it has been sent down to you in the Scripture, that if you hear God's revelations being rejected and ridiculed in, then do not sit with them until they move on to a different subject; if not, then you are like them. God will gather the hypocrites and the disbelievers in Hell all together"[Quran 4:140]

"And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, "Peace!";[Quran 25:63]

"...And when they hear idle talk, they turn away from it and say: 'Unto us our deeds, and unto you yours; salam (peace) be on you; we seek not the ignorant.'" [Quran :25:55]

"So turn away from them and say: 'Salam (Peace), for they will (soon) come to know.'" [Quran 43:89]

17

General Discussions / Re: Happy Ramzan Guys...:)

« on: June 07, 2016, 01:44:06 PM »

Amen. And Happy Ramadan to you as well

18

General Discussions / Re: Islam on watching movies, going to the cinema ...

« on: May 30, 2016, 01:41:13 PM »

Salaam Ikler,

Regarding your questions, I share brother Jospeh Islam sentiment when he made the following statement in one of his articles: The Quran does not intend to address every possible human scenario and prescribe a religious edict to it. It provides necessary guidance, where necessary, for one to take from it the best meaning (39:18), apply it to the best of one's abilities (64:16) and not to unduly complicate religion without warrant.

So with regards to watching movies I, personally, see nothing wrong with it provided that decency is practiced. And what I mean by decency is, as brother Hamzeh alluded, that one not avoid movies in which the characters are exposing themselves (nudity wise); or at the very least one should lower their gaze during moments (or scenes) of indecent acts.

On the issue of going to cinemas, I see nothing wrong with men and women freely mixing in any given event, provided, as alluded to above, that decency is practiced - i.e one does not transgress the limits laid out in the Quran regarding (but not limited to) unmarried persons.

This is my humble opinion. Always remember that It remains our duty as Muslims to seek the best meaning from what we hear by scrutinize and evaluate all arguments and following that 'which is best’ (see: Quran: 39:18). Every position / argument should be carefully pondered over and then proceed to only accepting / upholding whichever argument / position is true (or closest to the truth).

19

General Discussions / Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM

« on: May 27, 2016, 09:18:24 AM »

Salam ZKAB90,

First off, that verse you cited says nothing about Allah revealing or granting the knowledge of the unseen or the future to whom He wills; rather it's saying that no one encompasses anything of Allah's Knowledge except [of] what (or whom) He wills.
Secondly, given that no name is given mention to in verse 2:255, then on what conceivable ground can you assert that the phrase save that which He wills [them to attain] is a reference to the prophet Muhammad?

All that said, I have cited you (many of times before) ample explicit verses which makes it abundantly and explicit clear that NO ONE EXCEPT ALLAH knows of the unseen or of the future which have seem to intentionally ignore (I presume because it defeats your whole argument) I'll cite said verses again.....perhaps you'll take understand:

"Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things)." [Al-Qur'an 31:34]

"They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: 'The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): none but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.' They ask thee as if thou were eager in search thereof: say: 'The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.' " [Al-Qur'an 7:187]

Allah (continuously) says in the quran that the prophet was no more than a human being and had no such knowledge of the last hour. As demonstrated by the following ayats:

"Say, (O Muhammed) "I am no more than a human being like you...." [Quran 18:110]

"Say (O Muhammed), "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound Warner." [Quran 46:9][/u

"Say (O Muhammed), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. IF I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe." [Quran 7:188 ]

"Say (O Muhammed), "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of God. Nor do I know the future..." [Quran 6:50]

So the logic from the four ayahs I quoted can be broken down as follows:
Human beings cannot predict any part of the future; prophet Muhammad was a human being; therefore he (Muhammad) could not have foretold the future.

This belief you're clinching to (regrading the prophets supposed prediction of the future/unseen) finds no support from the Quram; in fact, the Quran says the opposite (i.e. Muhammad -pbuh- had absolutely no knowledge of the unseen/future).

20

General Discussions / Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM

« on: May 26, 2016, 12:15:59 PM »

Salam Zack,

Responding to the posts above, in particular the origins of Salat, Hajj etc... Everything PRE-EXISTED Muhammad. In fact the ritituals go all the way back to Abraham.  For example please see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRLFeldPG3Y

I believe Ramadan, salat was already practiced by Mecca prior to the revelation of the Qur'an. The message of the Quran is not about formulas for rituals, but the opposite.... The Quran is about the recognising of diversity in the Ummah and not forcing a specific ritual. The Quran is about unity, those previously saying "Our formula is correct", but instead a message of repentance from associating gods with God.

I fully concur. The simple point I was making in my initial response to ZKAB90 was that: if we wish to exemplify the prophet should we, then, not uphold the same and only scripture he upheld and draw (religious) inspiration/guidance from the same scripture he drew it from?

Peace.

21

General Discussions / Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM

« on: May 26, 2016, 12:08:44 PM »

Salaam ZKAB90,

It is very clear when in the Quran, God is asking the belivers to obey the prophet, it is referring to those people around him in his lifetime !
The prophet is their leader and commander in chief and they must
of course follow and trust in him and his commands.

Are you trying to say indirectly that the Qur'an is created, i.e. that is destined only for a specific time, like the time of Muhammad, and not this time in which we are living now?

With respect, that is a misrepresentation of what brother / sister Truth Seeker was saying. He / she wasn't arguing that the Quran was destined only for a specific time; rather he / she was making the case (as I have on a different thread) that the first directive of the command 'obey the messenger' was clearly to the contemporaries of the Prophet who were the direct addressees. They were being instructed to trust in the Prophet’s authority in the message he was delivering and acting on. Consider this: Who among the companions of the Prophet ever heard any of God's revelations directly from God? No one! Consequently, they cannot obey God except through Muhammad's delivery of the Quran. The Quran came out of Muhammad's mouth. This makes it necessary for God to command people to obey the messenger since he is the one who delivers to them God's message.

Peace.

22

Discussions / Re: How explain the prophecies of the Hadiths if there are made-up?

« on: May 22, 2016, 02:33:21 PM »

Salam eliiah,

What exactly are you referring to when you say "just so that you know, 6:50, and 7:188 don't state that"?

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General Discussions / Re: identification And introducing the "Muslim person" regarding Quran?

« on: May 15, 2016, 04:54:46 PM »

Salaam Abdurrahman,

You asked:

Regarding many Hadiths we know how a Muslim look like and the character !
Especially with outlook and so on...
I'll be appreciate if you can explain with the verses from Qurans view?

Muslims come in all shapes and sizes; there is no defining look. Any individual who upholds and adheres to the teachings of the Quran properly is, by definition, a Muslim. Whether (in the case of our Muslim brothers) one decides to grow a beard or not and whether (in the case of our Muslim sisters) one decides to wear the hijab or not has absolutely NO say on ones Pity / righteousness or faith. The Qur'an (in the following verse) stresses the principle that mere compliance with outward forms does not fulfill the requirements of piety or make one a Muslim:

"It is not righteousness that you turn your faces towards the East and the West, but righteousness is that one should believe in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts-- these are they who are true (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil)." [Quran 2:177]

In the above verse, the turning of one's face towards the east or the west is mentioned here only by way of illustration. The actual purpose of the verse is to emphasize that the observance of certain outward religious rites, the performance of certain formal religious acts out of conformism, and the manifestation of certain familiar forms of piety do not constitute that essential righteousness which alone carries weight with God and earns His recognition and approval

As for the characteristics of a Muslim, here are just a few verses which lay out those characteristics:

"The believers are only those who, when Allah is mentioned, feel a fear in their hearts and when His Verses (this Qur'an) are recited unto them, they (i.e. the Verses) increase their Faith; and they put their trust in their Lord (Alone);Who perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat) and spend out of that We have provided them." [Quran 8:2-3]

"[How] prosperous are the believers! Those who pray humbly, who shun idle talk, who pay the prescribed alms, who guard their chastity, except with their spouses or their slaves a – with these they are not to blame, but anyone who seeks more than this is exceeding the limits– who are faithful to their trusts and pledges and who keep up their prayers..." [Quran 23:1-9]

"And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, 'Peace!'" [Quran 25:63]

"...And when they hear idle talk, they turn away from it and say: 'Unto us our deeds, and unto you yours; salam (peace) be on you; we seek not the ignorant.'" [Quran :25:55]

"....righteousness is that one should believe in Allah and the last day and the angels and the Book and the prophets, and give away wealth out of love for Him to the near of kin and the orphans and the needy and the wayfarer and the beggars and for (the emancipation of) the captives, and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate; and the performers of their promise when they make a promise, and the patient in distress and affliction and in time of conflicts -- these are they who are true (to themselves) and these are they who guard (against evil)." [Quran 2:177]

Peace.

24

General Discussions / Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM

« on: May 14, 2016, 09:06:41 AM »

Salaam ZKAB90,

You said:

Abū Ruquyah Farasat Latif, in his “The Qur’aniyūn of the twentieth century”, [http://www.academia.edu/3452285/The_Quraniy%C5%ABn_Of_The_Twentieth_Century] in page 43 says:

“The Qur’aniyūn reject the orthodox Islamic position which equates the word ‘Hikmah’ in some of the Qur’anic verses to mean ‘sunna’ I will demonstrate that the Hikmah mentioned in the Qur’an does, in a number of verses, refer to the sunna. A number of verses prove this:”

The he gives these verses: 4:113, 2:231, 2:129, 2:151, 3:164, 33:34, 62:2

In all these verses there is the conjuction “wa” [“and”], so he conclude that

“Shafi’I explain that the letter ‘wa’ (meaning ‘and’) between Book and Hikmah in the verses above is:

<<a letter of conjunction in Arabic which requires that the two parts it joins must be different otherwise the sentence will be redundant>>

With respect, it's clear that you have failed to read the link I shared with you in a previous reply; because that link addressed this exact argument. From the link (and I shall share it again:

When the above arguments are presented to the Traditionalists, some of them get very emotional and shout that "there is no 'WAU ATFA' in the rest of the 'Hikmah' usage and therefore that 'Hikm' is different from the one used in 3:164". They fail to see the logical implications of this stubborn and emotional argument. We will analyse some other Verses of the Qur'an in the light of this argument.

"And if they reject you, so did their predecessors to whom came their messengers with clarity AND [Wal] Scripture AND [Wal] the Book of clarity” - (Ch.35: Ver.25)

Now in this Ayah the same "wau atfa" is used for the revelation brought by the past messengers. According to the logic posed by the Traditionalists, the above Ayah would mean that the past Messengers came with THREE DISTINCT revelations - "Clarity", "Scripture", and "The Book of Clarity". According to their logic, we should not consider all three of the above to be different attributes of Allah's revelations. However, we MUST consider them THREE distinct revelations. This creates a problem - If the "Scripture", and the "Book of Clarity' are DISTINCT, where is the SCRIPTURE of those people (for even if they show us their BOOKS - written records, we cannot accept that as scripture as it MUST be DISTINCT from the BOOK).

Let us look at a few more "Wau Atfa" Ayat. In the following Ayah, Allah is talking to Jesus. He says:

“I taught you the Book [wal]AND THE [hikmah] Wisdom [wal] AND The-Law [Torah] AND The-Gospel [Injeel]” - (Ch.5: Ver.110)

So according to the logic used by the Traditionalists, Allah taught Jesus FOUR DISTINCT revelations named as "The Book", "The Wisdom", "The Torah", and "The Injeel". This would mean that The Book is DISTINCT from Torah and Injeel. Thus according to the Traditionalist’s interpretation, during that time, there were four revelations making the rounds!

We may look again at a few more Ayat:

"Even as We have sent among you a Messenger from among you who recites to you Our Ayat and purifies you and teaches you the Book AND [wal] the wisdom AND [wal] teaches you that which you did not know." (Ch.2: Ver.151)

Now, we see another "wau Atfa". Here the Messenger teaches us "The-Book" AND "The-Hikmah", AND teaches us "that which we did not know". Thus according to the logic of the Traditionalists the presence of the "wau atfa" would mean that he is teaching us THREE DISTINCT things. Now, the Traditionalists have established that "Al-Kitaab" is the Qur'an, and "Al-Hikmah" is the "Hadith and Sunna". Now in addition to this we would like to know what is this NEW KNOWLEDGE that the Messenger is teaching…mind you because of the "wau atfa" the "new knowledge" MUST be DISTINCT from "Al-Kitaab", and "Al-Hikmah". Where this NEW KNOWLEDGE would be found? It cannot be in the Qur'an, or even in the Hadith.

We are sure that anyone with a grain of reason in his mind can see the logical error committed by the Traditionalists.

#1 http://z8.invisionfree.com/Ahl_Al_Quran/index.php?showtopic=30


As for PROOF N°2, I subscribe to the believe that the supposed Sunnah of the propeth finds absolutely no explicit support from the Quran, and if you believe otherwise, then the burden is on you to support that standpoint solely from the Quran. Therefore, I couldn't really care about the supposed method used to safeguard the "Sunnah of the prophet", which itself finds no support from the Quran.

Furthermore, are you aware of the fact that there is no single agreed upon definition of Sunnah? Some individuals/sects say that whatever the Prophet (PBUH) said or did in private, or in public, is his Sunnah. Others say that whatever is in the books of hadith comprise the Sunnah. Still others say whatever the Prophet (PBUH) did in his capacity as a man/father/husband is not Sunnah; only the things which he did in his capacity as prophet/messenger comprise the Sunnah. It is, therefore,  safe to conclude that there are as many variations in the definition of Sunnah as there are sects and sub-sects in Islam. Each sect thinks its definition is the right one.

As for PROOF N°3, how is that relevant to me and/or to this issue at hand in this post? I have never asserted that the current method of prayer perfromed by the majority of Muslims or their method of seeking guidance from Allah is wrong; nor I'm I a Qur’aniyūn .

Now kindly answer the two question I have posted to your earlier, which were:


1] Why would Allah send down a dual-revelation? Are we to suggest that the Quran in-itself is incomplete or ambiguous and therefore needs the support of a secondary source? To give you a better understanding of what I mean, consider the two following verse in which Allah instructs us to follow solely the Quran.:

"And this is a Book which We have revealed as a blessing: SO FOLLOW IT (Arabic: fa-ittabi'uhu) and fear (God) / be righteous so that you may receive mercy" [Quran 06:155]


If, as you suggest, Allah had made it incumbent upon us to uphold and follow a second source then surely it would be appropriate for Allah to have given mention to it in this verse, would it not?

Consider also the following verse:

“Say: "What thing is most weighty in evidence?" Say: "God is witness between me and you; THIS QURAN HAS BEEN REVEALED TO ME BY INSPIRATION that I may warn you and all whom it reaches. Can you possibly bear witness that besides God there is another God?" Say: "Nay! I cannot bear witness!" Say: "But in truth He is the one God, and I truly am innocent of (your blasphemy of) joining others with Him” [Quran 06:19]

Again, if we are to believe that the prophet received a secondary revelation which was/is incumbent upon us to uphold and follow then surely it would be appropriate for Allah to have given mention to it in that verse, would it not?

25

General Discussions / Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM

« on: May 12, 2016, 01:57:50 AM »

Walaikum SalamAbdurrahman,

Welcome to the forum. And thank you for sharing your humble opinion.

26

General Discussions / Re: HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM

« on: May 10, 2016, 08:14:37 AM »

Salaam ZKAB90,

You said:

Does the Quran wish us to follow the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him)? Yes.
This should be enough evidence. “(O Muhammad, to mankind): if ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, merciful.” Ahl-Imran 3, Verse 31

First off, on what conceivable grounds can the expression 'if ye love Allah, follow me' be used to sanction extraneous sources which were not arguably 'CANONISED' until CENTURIES after the death of the Prophet?

Furthermore, allow me to ask you:
What did the prophet follow?
What (scripture) did Muhammad use to dictate his life?
What scripture did Muhammad base his life decisions on?
Surely prophet Muhammad did not, on his accord, make up everything he was preaching and every act/ritual (such as the salat, zakat, hajj, fasting, upholding of justice, etc) which he performed (which we are instructed to emulate), correct? Those acts must have come from somewhere, correct? But what (scripture) could have inspired many of Muhammad's acts (which is now incumbent on us Muslims to perform)?

Moreover, how and from where did the prophet learn how to perform the Salat, how to make Hajj, how to observe the month of Ramadan, etc? The logical answer would be: from the Quran; the prophet learned how to perform those rituals solely from the Quran. Continuously are we told (in the Quran) that the only revelation (or scripture) which Muhammad received was the revelation of the Quran (See: 7:203; 6:19; 5:48; 42:7) and it was that revelation (Quran) alone which he was responsible for upholding and following (See: 7:203; 6:155; 10:15; 33:2;46:9; 6:106; 6:50), responsible for admonishing and warning the people with (See: 6:19; 27:91-92; 5:45; 42:7; 38:65-70), and responsible for judging with it (See: 5:48-49; 4:105).

Thus, if we, as Muslims, are to follow the example of the prophet (Quran 33:21) then let us do so by following the same and only scripture which was revealed to the prophet (See: 7:203; 6:155; 10:15; 33:2;46:9; 6:106; 6:50) and which he was commanded to only follow (See: Quran 6:155), and let us base all of our religious assertions and/or theological standpoints and rituals solely from the Quran.

Hence, should the Quran not suffice as the only sources necessary for our guidance?

You've also said:

There are nineteen times that obedience of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) is stated in the Quran by Allah Subhanu wa ta’ala

With respect to the many verses instruct us (Muslims) to obey the messenger, please understand that a messenger is simply someone who carries a message; and the message the prophet carried was none other than the Quran (see: 7:203-204; 6:19; 5:48 42:7; 6:29;). Therefore, by obeying the messenger we are obey the Quran and Allah.

Please understand that the first directive of the command 'obey the messenger' was clearly to the contemporaries of the Prophet who were the direct addressees. They were being instructed to trust in the Prophet’s authority in the message he was delivering and acting on.

Therefore, 'Obey the Messenger' meant obedience to his authority (in his capacity as a messenger/prophet). This understanding also finds support in the following verse where it is clear that it was not only the Prophet that needed to be obeyed, but also those in authority.:

"O ye who believe! Obey God, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. Then if you disagree in anything among yourselves, refer it to God and His Messenger, if ye do believe in God and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination" [Quran 4:59]

The Quran repeatedly announces obedience to the messenger; albeit they are the same person, the Quran never conveys the instruction to obey 'Muhammad' in his capacity as a man/husband/father and in his personal preferences and choices; only in his capacity as a messenger/prophet is to be obeyed. The significance of this specific address by the title 'messenger' is often not appreciated. The 'message' remained connected to the 'messenger' and it was in this capacity of the 'messenger' that Muhammad (pbuh) needed to be obeyed. In fact, a stark warning was given to Prophet Muhammad if he so much as introduced any personal preferences in the matter of God's ordained 'deen', as the following verse shows:

“And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name, We should certainly seize him by his right hand, And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart: Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath). But verily this is a Message for the God-fearing”[Quran 69:44-48]

Therefore, the inclusion of the phrase "obey the Messenger" after "Obey Allah" is significant in the following ways:

Who among the companions of the Prophet ever heard any of God's revelations directly from God? No one! Consequently, they cannot obey God except through Muhammad's delivery of the Quran. The Quran came out of Muhammad's mouth. This makes it necessary for God to command people to obey the messenger since he is the one who delivers to them God's message.
Moreover, the messenger did not just deliver the Quran and vanish! The prophet spent all his years from the time he received the first revelation till his death inviting all people to believe in the Quran and to follow it. Hence it is necessary for God to command all humans to obey the messenger who is inviting them to accept the message (Quran).

For more info, please consider visiting the following sites:
http://quransmessage.com/articles/obey%20allah%20and%20the%20messenger%20FM3.htm
http://www.detailedquran.com/quran_data/Obey%20Allah%20and%20obey%20the%20messenger.htm

Please know that prophet Muhammad is no longer alive and with us, so it is not possible for us to obey someone who is now dead. Thus, the first directive of the command obey the messenger was to the contemporaries of the Prophet who were the direct addressees. They were being instructed to trust in the Prophet’s authority in the message he was delivering and acting on. Sense the prophet is no longer with us, the only way in which we can obey him is by obeying and upholding the only message he delivered (the Quran).

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General Discussions / Re: PROOFS we are living the End Times and MAHDI (and DAJJAL) will appears shortly

« on: May 10, 2016, 08:01:09 AM »

Salam ZKAB90,

Sorry for the multiple posts (this being one of them) which I have burden you with in response to some claims you've been making in your recent posts on this thread.

You said:

Furthermore, in this thread HIKMA means indeed HADITHS and not WISDOM http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1918.0 I posted a good rebuttal, in my opinion, took from a Sunni web.
This explain the obligatory to follow the Sunna.

I jave already addressed your usage of the word Hikma to mean a secondary source in this post:
http://quransmessage.com/forum/forum.htm

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General Discussions / Re: PROOFS we are living the End Times and MAHDI (and DAJJAL) will appears shortly

« on: May 10, 2016, 07:57:19 AM »

Salam ZKAB90,

You said:

the Qur'aanic promise of protection must apply to Hadeeth as well for there is no point in protecting the words but not the interpretation.

I'm I correcting in assuming that you are of the believe that the hadith interprets the Quran? If so, then I disagree.
Upon you is the burden to proof, solely from a Quran, the requirement of other sources being necessary to explain the Quran (which you haven't yet done).

Consider the following verses which attest to the fact that the Quran is self-explanatory:

"A Book, whereof the verses are explained in detail / distinguished (Arabic: Fussilat); a Quran in Arabic, for people who understand". [Quran 41:3]

"A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses perfected, moreover explained in detail / distinguished (Arabic: Fussilat) from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things)". [Quran 11:1]

"Ta, Seen. These are the verses of the Qur'an and a clear Book" [Quran 27:1]

"These are the verses of the clear Book." [Quran]

"These are the verses of the clear Book" [Quran 26:2]

"Alif, Lam, Ra. [This is] a Book whose verses are perfected and then presented in detail from [one who is] Wise and Acquainted." [Quran 11:1]

"Alif, Lam, Ra. These are the verses of the Book and a clear Qur'an." [Quran 15:1]

How can a scripture (such as the Quran) which refers to itself as a “manifest light”(4:174) be shed more light on by another sources? How can a book which explains various things (16:89; 20:133) itself be in need of further explanation by other sources?

Furthermore, God made no guarantee to protect the Prophet's teachings in any form as he did with the Quran (15:9). To suggest that the Prophetic teachings have been protected in the Ahadith corpus which were not canonized until centuries after the death of the Prophet is also academically unwarranted.

You also said:

Who guarantee that the Qu'ran we have is the Real one? Because of scientific miracles or the numerical ones? What guarantee us that this Qu'ran is complete?. The fact that Allah say that He protect it doesn't means that this sentence can't be added by people who write down it to make more certain that is the complete one.

The Quran, in several verses, asks us to ponder over its message and perceive the truth of what it says. It is the truth of the Quran that is ultimately what should be used to convince someone; and it's that same truth which will convince one of its originality/authenticity. But if you are making the case that the Hadiths inform us of the Quran's authenticity, then what should we make of those same sources raising doubts to the Quran’s preservation with claims such as:

•That verses were missing and a goat ate the stoning verse with regards to adultery
• That the Prophet of God introduced the Satanic verses
• That Caliph Uthman burnt the extant copies of the Quran
• That there was a missing suckling verse (Ten clear sucklings which made the marriage unlawful, then it was later abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and then was somehow removed or missed from the Quran altogether
• That there was a missing Ibn Adam verse (regarding Ibn Adam's possession of a wadi of property)
• That there was a missing 'pleasing' verse from the Quran (regarding those that were slain at Bi'r Mauna which included the verse "Inform our tribe on our behalf that we have met with our Lord. He has been well pleased with us and has satisfied our desires)
• And many others, from al-Baraa, verses that were lost with dead Muslims, cancelled and repealed verses and those forgotten by the Prophet himself and those lost by Quranic reciters

http://quransmessage.com/articles/how%20do%20we%20know%20the%20quran%20was%20preserved%20if%20nor%20for%20ahadith%20FM3.htm

29

General Discussions / Re: PROOFS we are living the End Times and MAHDI (and DAJJAL) will appears shortly

« on: May 10, 2016, 07:36:09 AM »

Salam ZKAB90,

You said:

The mode by which the Qur'aan was transmitted is the same as the way in which the Ahadeeth were transmitted - from generation to generation. The individuals who transmitted the Qur'aan were the same who have transmitted the hadeeth.

I disagree. The claim that the hadith was preserved the much the same way as the Quran is utter nonsense. As brother Joseph Islam alluded to in one of his article (which I'll link below):

This statement has no basis. Most (if not all) reports within the ahadith corpus are based on ‘Ahad reports’ or singular transmissions (sole witnesses to the narrative) and collected centuries removed from source by later compilers with many discrepancies. For example in the main, what Abu Hurairah narrates, no one else narrates the same Hadith. This is an example of an 'Ahad' report or witness. The Quran in contrast has not reached us by 'Ahad' witnesses, but rather, it has been transmitted in its entirety by a consensus of the community (mutawwatir) long before any ahadith works were compiled or canonized.

Furthermore, it is pertinent to question why were ‘isnads’ (chain of narrators) are not required for each verse of the Quran? This is a very sound question. Why did the early Islamic community not deem it necessary to provide ‘isnads’ for every verse of the Quran?

Heres the link: http://quransmessage.com/articles/how%20do%20we%20know%20the%20quran%20was%20preserved%20if%20nor%20for%20ahadith%20FM3.htm

Furthermore, I am of the believe that the Quran was compiled toghter during the life time of the prophet (pbuh) and not centries later as is the case with the hadith. Consider this:

"(It is) in sheets / pages held (greatly) in honor (Arabic: fi suhufin mukarrama), Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy (Arabic: marfu'atin mutahhara), (Written) by the hands of scribes. (Arabic: bi'aydi safara), honorable and pious and just (Arabic: kiramin barara)" [Quran 80:13-16]

The above verse, in my humble opinion, supports the claim that the Quran was written down by noble scribes at/during the time of the prophet.
Consider the following verse as well:

“Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than God; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful”. [Quran 5:3]

In the above verse, pay close attention to the words "I have perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as a your religion". One must ask how it was possible to complete a ‘Deen’ (a system / religion) without the bedrock of instructions formulated and referenced by scripture? One must therefore posit the possible conclusion that for a 'Deen' to be complete, the scripture must have taken its final form.

Also pay close attention to the words "he has got them written" in the following verse, further confirming that the Quran was written during the lifetime of the prophet as the disbelievers are seen accusing him (Muhammad) of writing down ‘ancient stories’ (referring to the Quran as ‘ancient stories’):

“And they (disbelievers) say: The stories of the ancients – he (Muhammad) has got them written - so these are read out to him morning and evening” [Quran 25:5]

Lastly, in 2:282 the Quran puts heavy emphasis on the need to write business transactions and highlights the importance of this; these are the guidelines for regular day to day matters. So the idea/argument that the prophet (to whom the Quran was sent to) departed this earth without him having written down the Quran or seeking to it that it was, to me sound unbelievable. So the writing of business transactions was/is considered important (as shown in 2:282) but the Book which was to provide guidance to mankind wasn't important enough to write down (during the life-time of the prophet)? What sense does that make?

As alluded to by Joseph Islam in one of his article:

2) If we are to trust that the Quran was compiled years after the death of the prophet (as is the case with the hadith) what, then, should we make of those same sources raising doubts to the Quran’s preservation with claims such as:

•That verses were missing and a goat ate the stoning verse with regards to adultery
• That the Prophet of God introduced the Satanic verses
• That Caliph Uthman burnt the extant copies of the Quran
• That there was a missing suckling verse (Ten clear sucklings which made the marriage unlawful, then it was later abrogated (and substituted) by five sucklings and then was somehow removed or missed from the Quran altogether
• That there was a missing Ibn Adam verse (regarding Ibn Adam's possession of a wadi of property)
• That there was a missing 'pleasing' verse from the Quran (regarding those that were slain at Bi'r Mauna which included the verse "Inform our tribe on our behalf that we have met with our Lord. He has been well pleased with us and has satisfied our desires)
• And many others, from al-Baraa, verses that were lost with dead Muslims, cancelled and repealed verses and those forgotten by the Prophet himself and those lost by Quranic reciters

http://quransmessage.com/articles/how%20do%20we%20know%20the%20quran%20was%20preserved%20if%20nor%20for%20ahadith%20FM3.htm

30

General Discussions / Re: PROOFS we are living the End Times and MAHDI (and DAJJAL) will appears shortly

« on: May 07, 2016, 09:45:01 AM »

Salam ZkAB90,

With all due respect, I am of the opinion that your presence on this forum is not that of someone who shares his views with the goal of it being challenged or with the goal of other forum members sharing their humble take on said views.

Rather (it seems to me) that you are only bent on propagating your views and when I and others respond to your many post (or cite you relevant article from brother Joseph Islam) you fail to respond back and instance proceed to posting another post (and so on...)

A case in point is this post which I am responding to. In this post you (or those whom you cite) attempt to make the claim that the end is near or that the prophet has predicted some event that are to occur prior to the world ending. Yet (as you may be aware of) I have already (on another similar post of yours) made clear to you that such predictions must be dismissed as baseless, sense the Quran made it abundantly clear that neither the prophet nor anyone else (save Allah) knows of the unseen and when the world will come to an end. Yet, as evident by this post of yours, you have dismissed that reply of mine and instead proceed to once again posting a post which makes the case for the end being near failing to take into account that NO ONE KNOWS OF WHEN THE END WILL COME SAVE ALLAH.[1]

Perhapse you will consider taking the following verses (which I have shared with you before) into account prior to posting a similar post in the future:

"Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does anyone know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does anyone know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things)." [Al-Qur'an 31:34]

"They ask thee about the (final) Hour - when will be its appointed time? Say: 'The knowledge thereof is with my Lord (alone): none but He can reveal as to when it will occur. Heavy were its burden through the heavens and the earth. Only, all of a sudden will it come to you.' They ask thee as if thou were eager in search thereof: say: 'The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone), but most men know not.' " [Al-Qur'an 7:187]

Allah (continuously) says in the quran that the prophet was no more than a human being and had no such knowledge of the last hour. As demonstrated by the following ayats:

"Say, (O Muhammed) "I am no more than a human being like you...." [Quran 18:110]

"Say (O Muhammed), "I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner." [Quran 46:9][/u

"Say (O Muhammed), "I have no power to benefit myself, or harm myself. Only what God wills happen to me. If I KNEW THE FUTURE, I would have increased my wealth, and no harm would have afflicted me. I am no more than a warner, and a bearer of good news for those who believe." [Quran 7:188 ]

"Say (O Muhammed), "I do not say to you that I possess the treasures of God. Nor do I know the future..." [Quran 6:50]

So the logic from the four ayahs I quoted can be broken down as follows:
Human beings cannot predict any part of the future; prophet Muhammad was a human being; therefore he (Muhammad) could not have foretold the future.

The Quran explicitly and consistently informs its readers that nothing in the Heavens or the Earth has knowledge of the hour. This knowledge is ONLY with God and that it can befall almost suddenly with no premise.

There are also no indications or premise given in the Quran that would inform one when the hour will come to pass as this would contradict the Quranic maxim that the Day of Judgment may come on you suddenly.
 
 022:055
"And those who disbelieve shall not cease to be in doubt concerning it until the hour overtakes them suddenly, or there comes on them the chastisement of a destructive day"
 
016:077
"And to God belongs the unseen of the heavens and the Earth, and the matter of the Hour (of doom) is but as a twinkling of the eye, or it is nearer still. Indeed! God is able to do all things"

[b[/b]

[1]http://quransmessage.com/forum/forum.htm
[2]http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20second%20coming%20attested%20by%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm
http://quransmessage.com/forum/index.php?topic=201.0
http://quransmessage.com/articles/is%20second%20coming%20attested%20by%20the%20quran%20FM3.htm