Messages

151

General Discussions / Re: What is meant by "trusting in God's plan for us"?

« on: July 02, 2014, 03:59:49 AM »

Salam Osman,

In my humble opinion, I think that it would be better if you view your situation as a test from God that requires patience.

You may want to see the following article. http://quransmessage.com/articles/tests%20FM3.htm

One should trust in God's plan. Because only God knows what's Best for each one of us.

[94:5] Saheeh International
For indeed, with hardship [will be] ease.
[94:6]
Indeed, with hardship [will be] ease.

152

General Discussions / Re: What is meant by "trusting in God's plan for us"?

« on: June 27, 2014, 07:44:52 AM »

Dear brother Osman,

I think that whoever enters hell must deserve this punishment, and to deserve it one must do all sorts of bad deeds. There is no compulsion in doing bad deeds. Although God can misguide some people but this arguably is because there was no good in their hearts. So it starts inside and God manifests what's inside to the outside.

[8:23] Saheeh International
Had Allah known any good in them, He would have made them hear. And if He had made them hear, they would [still] have turned away, while they were refusing.

We are free to shape our hearts as we wish. Take the example of prophet Ibrahim, He was searching for the truth. Although it took some time god eventually guided him because he was sincere in his search for the truth. Other people may not be that sincere. Maybe that's why they are not guided.

In spite of the fact that we cannot completely control what happens in the outside world(As we are bound by physical reality). We do have total freedom when it comes to our hearts. So I think that the best thing one can do is to purify his heart , do good deeds and hope for the best in this life and the one after.

[91:7]Saheeh International
And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it
[91:8]
And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,
[91:9] l
He has succeeded who purifies it,
[91:10]
And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].

[2:82]
But they who believe and do righteous deeds - those are the companions of Paradise; they will abide therein eternally.


 Hence to shape your destiny just look inside as it will unfold according to what's in there.  An another example for this is the people of Prophet Yunus. When they believed God granted them the good life in this world.


]Finally, I think its vital that we also put our trust in God. Which for me means that nothing happens for no reason because everything is under God's control. After all he is The All Knowing, and the Most Wise.

[9:51] Saheeh International
Say, "Never will we be struck except by what Allah has decreed for us; He is our protector." And upon Allah let the believers rely.


Hope this helps.
Peace

153

General Discussions / Re: Khamr

« on: June 21, 2014, 07:32:04 AM »

Dear Anwar,

Please stop playing games

Since you labeled my sincere attempt to find the best meaning with you regarding this topic as "playing games". I see that there no reason for me to continue this discussion with you.

Consider this reply as my last on this thread.

I wish you the best in this life and the next.

Peace.

154

General Discussions / Re: Hidden exception in Quranic language ?

« on: June 20, 2014, 08:34:29 PM »

[21:30] Saheeh International
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?


Verse 21:30 states that everything living was created from water. However we know that the Jinn were created from fire.
So My question is : When the quran generalizes an issue is there room for exceptions without it being considered a contradiction.
Does the arabic language( or expressions) allow such exceptions to be implied when speaking about general statements ?

I just wanted to make a correction. Although the jinn were created from fire. We do not know if water was part of their creation or not. Therefore I think this is not a good example for my question.

155

General Discussions / Re: Khamr

« on: June 20, 2014, 08:27:35 PM »

Salam Anwar,

Here is quotation from lesan al arab.

والخَمْرُ ما خَمَر العَقْلَ، وهو المسكر من الشراب،

Here khamr can mean any substance that intoxicates the mind. So there is no need for "Qias" to include other substances other than wine.

So if we take this meaning of khamr as the above. Then both drunknesses and the substance itself are forbidden. Even if one can take the substance without being drunk.

Furthermore, i think that its hard to accept your interpretation of kamr being drunkenness on the basis of the availability of the above meaning. And the following verse:

[2:168]
O mankind, eat from whatever is on earth [that is] lawful and good and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.

If it is as you say, that drunkenness is what is forbidden not wine. Then you will be conflict with 2:168 as clearly drinking wine without getting drunk is taking a footstep towards what is forbidden.

Thoughts ?

peace.

156

General Discussions / Re: Khamr

« on: June 17, 2014, 01:18:10 AM »

Dear Anwar,

I hope you can see my points. If you just flatly disagree there is no need for further challenging. I want to avoid arguing points that I have not made, like when you insinuated that I am somehow saying that khamr CANNOT mean wine. A point that I never made.

Let me start by saying that I am not challenging you. I am merely having a conversation with the intent to arrive at the best meaning.
Furthermore, I know that you know that khamr can mean wine. I was talking about its meaning at the context I was referring to in 12:41.

Khamr's sin/harm is greater than its benefit. This does not apply to sakar. Please stop conflating their meaning as intoxicant.

Sakar in 16:67 can mean intoxicants. See "Lesan-al-arab". And I think its more logical to take the meaning as such.

Ask anyone who uses any substance that induces a drunken state what the benefit of drunkenness is and they will clearly tell you...absence of stress and relaxation of the mind. That is a clear benefit. But the harm of that state is greater than the benefit. Please do not argue with me about whether this is truly a benefit or not given
the means through which it was acquired.

This was a weak argument from my part.

This fits the context of 5:90 much better, especially when taking into consideration 4:43 and 16:67

In 4:43 the prohibition of praying while in a state of "sukara" does not mean that in 5:90 it means drunkenness. 5:90 can be still referring to wine.

And in 16:67 as I said earlier, I think that wine fits "sakaran" better. Because the verse says "you take". Drunkenness cannot be taken because its a state it is experienced.

Additionally, I believe that this creates a wider prohibition on the abuse of intoxicants in general rather than using the traditional Islamic process of qiyaas to arrive at a contrived meaning for khamr as any general intoxicant, which is certainly NOT its meaning

Whether it creates a wider prohibition or not should not be taken as a reason to interpret khamr as "drunkenness".

This means that the things that we will enjoy in paradise are lawful to have here on earth, however in paradise they will be purified and improved

I understand what you are saying. But I feel that this is an interpolation from your part. As paradise is different than earth.

For more clarity, I am not giving khamr any new meaning. Nor am I negating any of its established meanings. I am showing how being fair with the grammatical implications of the passages that mention khamr, sakar, and sukaraa (sukraan) is more logical to take khamr in its meaning of drunkenness at 5:90

Given what I said above I see no special reason to take the meaning of "khamr" as the less popular meaning of drunkenness. Also can you please provide me with a reference from where you got this meaning.

Peace.

157

General Discussions / Re: Khamr

« on: June 11, 2014, 06:04:49 AM »

Dear Anwar,

Please see my comments after the quotations.

I understand your point. However, it would seem that you do not understand all of the grammatical functions of wa. 'wa' can be used an marker for further clarification.

And that is my point. Your understanding is valid, but so is mine according to Classical Arabic grammar. Rarely are phrses within Quranic verses limited to one understanding. Because the 'wa' CAN be being used as a marker for further clarification, who am I to disallow what is grammatically valid in that context?

An example to what you are referring to are the verses that contain "The book and Wisdom" such as the following one.

[2:129]
Our Lord, and send among them a messenger from themselves who will recite to them Your verses and teach them the Book and wisdom and purify them. Indeed, You are the Exalted in Might, the Wise."

Some argue that wisdom is an something other than the book. However, when taking more verses into context we can deduce that wisdom here is part of the book. Therefore "WA" here is used as a marker for further clarification as you said.


However in verse 16:67, conflict will arise if you take "WA" to denote further explanation of intoxicants. Because in verse 2:219 it is clearly stated that its sin is greater than its benefit. For that reason, how can good provision be referring to intoxicants ?

Again, I also clearly explained the meanings of Khamr, pigeon-holing it as just 'wine' is an unwillingness to recognize the breadth of Classical Arabic words and their meanings.  Taking all of the valid meanings of these verses I find that alcohol is not forbidden, drunkenness is. I find this to be more consistent with all that the Qur'an says on the subject and to be even more comprehensive given that the state of inebriation can be caused by substances other than alcohol.

Taking the meaning of "Khamr" as "drunkenness" causes incompatibility with the same verse 2:219. Because how can drunkenness have some benefits. It is more logical to take the meaning as wine.

Furthermore, it is clear from verse 12:41 that "khamran" means wine.

[12:41]
O two companions of prison, as for one of you, he will give drink to his master of wine; but as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. The matter has been decreed about which you both inquire."

Finally, the fact that the "state of inebriation can be caused by substances other than alcohol" in my humble opinion is not a valid reason to assign drunkenness to the word "Khamr" given the evidence above.

Peace.

158

General Discussions / Re: Khamr

« on: June 10, 2014, 07:08:26 PM »

Salam Anwar,

I have a few comments.

1. I do not believe alchohol to be forbidden, given the Qur'an's use of sakar in what can be taken as a positive light in 16:67. The 'wa rizqan hasanan' can even be taken as a descriptive of the alcoholic drink taken from the products of (date) palms and grapes.

[16:67]
And from the fruits of the palm trees and grapevines you take intoxicant and good provision. Indeed in that is a sign for a people who reason.

According to the verse "fruits of the palm trees and grapevines" are taken as intoxicant and good provision. This does not mean that intoxicants are part of the good provision. Its the "fruits of the palm trees and grapevines" that are.

10. My advice is that if you cannot drink without getting drunk, do not drink Additionally over-consumption of alcohol is harmful to the body and the liver in particular. To engage in harmful activities that only serve to harm is against the fundamental concept of taqwaa in the Qur'an, which is self-protection or protection from harm in this life and the next.

The Quran does not say do not to over consume it clearly says stay away from it.
[5:91]
Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?

Additionally, the Quran states that its sin is greater than its benefit. It did not relate it to overconsumption. Therefore it can be deduced than this applies to any amount.
 [2:219]
They ask you about wine and gambling. Say, "In them is great sin and [yet, some] benefit for people. But their sin is greater than their benefit." And they ask you what they should spend. Say, "The excess [beyond needs]." Thus Allah makes clear to you the verses [of revelation] that you might give thought.

Thoughts ?

159

General Discussions / Hidden exception in Quranic language ?

« on: June 09, 2014, 06:52:01 AM »

[21:30] Saheeh International
Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, and We separated them and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?


Verse 21:30 states that everything living was created from water. However we know that the Jinn were created from fire.
So My question is : When the quran generalizes an issue is there room for exceptions without it being considered a contradiction.
Does the arabic language( or expressions) allow such exceptions to be implied when speaking about general statements ?

I think the following passages are another example for this.


[41:49] Saheeh International
Man is not weary of supplication for good [things], but if evil touches him, he is hopeless and despairing.
[41:50]
And if We let him taste mercy from Us after an adversity which has touched him, he will surely say, "This is [due] to me, and I do not think the Hour will occur; and [even] if I should be returned to my Lord, indeed, for me there will be with Him the best." But We will surely inform those who disbelieved about what they did, and We will surely make them taste a massive punishment.
[41:51]
And when We bestow favor upon man, he turns away and distances himself; but when evil touches him, then he is full of extensive supplication.



Although the Quran is speaking about Man in general. We know that not all Men are like that.
Which leads me back to the Question:
Are some exceptions implied in the Quran when it is talking about things in general ?

Thanks in advance

160

General Discussions / Re: Good deeds after ones death ?

« on: June 02, 2014, 06:07:29 PM »

Dear brother Joseph

Thank you for your response.

161

General Discussions / Good deeds after ones death ?

« on: May 30, 2014, 06:20:56 AM »

Its widely accepted in muslim thought that when someone dies, there is still room for him to improve his rank in the hereafter.
I think this is due to the following hadith:

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "When a man dies, his deeds come to an end, except for three: A continuous charity, knowledge by which people derive benefit, pious son who prays for him."

[Muslim].

Is this concept supported by the Quran ?


Thank you in advance.

162

General Discussions / Different meanings of "Farah" in the Quran.

« on: May 25, 2014, 11:54:09 PM »

Saheeh International*

[3:188]
And never think that those who rejoice(Yafrahoon) in what they have perpetrated and like to be praised for what they did not do - never think them [to be] in safety from the punishment, and for them is a painful punishment.

[11:10] But if We give him a taste of favor after hardship has touched him, he will surely say, "Bad times have left me." Indeed, he is exultant (Fareh) and boastful -

[40:75]
[The angels will say], "That was because you used to exult (tafrahoon) upon the earth without right and you used to behave insolently


[30:4]
Within three to nine years. To Allah belongs the command before and after. And that day the believers will rejoice (yafrah)

[13:36]
And [the believers among] those to whom We have given the [previous] Scripture rejoice(yafrahoon) at what has been revealed to you, [O Muhammad], but among the [opposing] factions are those who deny part of it. Say, "I have only been commanded to worship Allah and not associate [anything] with Him. To Him I invite, and to Him is my return."


In the first 3 verses "Farah" is related to excessive pride. While in the last two verses it is related to rejoicing without pride.

What are your thoughts on this ? Is it correct ?

Thanks in advance

163

Discussions / Re: Professions-Financial Services/Banking

« on: May 22, 2014, 07:06:31 AM »

Salam Ruquaiya.

May God aid you in your pursuit of knowledge.

Regards

164

General Discussions / Re: Quran followers put on notice!

« on: May 22, 2014, 07:00:57 AM »

Dear brother Wakas,

Thank you for sharing.

165

General Discussions / Re: Quran followers put on notice!

« on: May 20, 2014, 06:32:54 AM »

Salam brother Joseph and Mubashir,

The need for a solid base and powerful principles are even more critical when arguing against the normative, established position of the traditionalists. One cannot afford 'weaknesses' or 'gaps' in thoughts.

Building upon what brother Joseph said. Why can't we establish such principles/arguments. I think we could dedicate a page or a website to gather them in it all the arguments that support the Quran-centric approach. And the responses to counter arguments of traditionalists. It might also contain principles that are derived from the Quran like the ones brother joseph shared.

This page might later on gain popularity and become a reference. There will be always room to refine the arguments based on criticism. And hopefully there will be no weaknesses in the arguments.

Some might say that we already know the arguments why would we need to dedicate a page for it ?

It might be true that some people may not have any weaknesses in their arguments but other less experienced individuals might have some. So a page like this will be a good place for these people to learn. 

Furthermore, A page (or a separate website) like that will make it easier to respond to counter arguments.  Because all what will be needed to be done is to point to "principle 4" or Argument 2. on the page/website. In addition, we might even start naming arguments so that it becomes easier to refer to them. For example "Argument from authenticity".


It will also be a good opportunity for collaboration because this idea will not be the property of one person. It will be the product of the collaboration and "shura" of different people who have different perspectives.


This is just a thought I had. Do you think that such an idea is applicable or of use ?